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Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

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Old 02-22-2013, 12:55 PM
  #76
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

Man, that's aggressive.... Putting together such a large Jet project before even starting to fly jets. I was on the conservative side, opting for small mild jet. It's not that I had a lack of skills, just a little courage I guess. I'm sure your Heli experience will help, but if I were you, I would get a hot prop plane and just fly the heck out of it, or a trainer jet.

I have flown Heli's and pretty much everything else out there too. I think airspeed stall is something you don't normally worry about with a heli. I would say that would be a deficit in your experience since you have not flown much fixed wing. Any LTMA cert models are going to require logged experience, so I guess you will need something else in the mean time.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:02 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120


Quote:
ORIGINAL: x3dflyer



i'm just sitting back and reading...I appreciate the help and the input...I myself am a noob to turbines...and do not have a waiver yet...

I definitely am no expert on Turbine jets so i expect that i will be doing a lot of reading and spending a lot of time with my local turbine flyers to learn....as well as reading these threads here on RCU.

I have been flying RC helis for about 15 years and tinkered with planes here and there...but have always wanted to get into turbines...I'm guessing it will be a while before I am doing any real flying of these turbine jets I am having built for me

I am a pretty Decent 3d Heli pilot so I'm hoping some of those skill translate into jets....thanks for the help guys ...it's much appreciated


Anthony
You won't have any problem what so ever transitioning to Jets. They are different, but if you have the dexterity to fly helis you should be good to go. There is more than dexterity though, like wisdom.. lol, and for that it takes time. Some of these guys who come on the jet scene thinking that they have all of the answers and know everything are the ones who find out the fastest how expensive this hobby can really be!

Andy
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:08 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

Boy... this thread REALLY got off track...
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:08 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

I had the same problem, I wasnt showing up on turbine list even after I had it. AMA is bad about updating the list. I am starting to have flash backs here [:-]

would a 500+ oz servo have problems on this jet? We always over do it on torque i mean heck 500 oz is almost 32 lbs of force.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:38 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

fenderbean-

I asked Rex about that last night and he seemed to think that a single 500oz servo would be required if you were to do a single servo on the elevators..He seemed to think that should work ok...but the dual servo would be wayy better


As for jets...I have the following to learn on

Falcon 120 with 120MM EDF fan
CMP 90mm Hawk edf on 6s
Philip Avonds 84" F-15 with an XPS 127MM fan system (12s)
Fly Eagle jet 1:9 Rafale with a Jetcat P70
Yellow Aircraft F-4 Phantom with 127MM XPS system (12s)

My plan is to practice with the EDF's and then transition to the Rafale......then hopefully the F18
I am getting ready to have a fly eagle 1:7 F-16 with a jetcat p80 built for me as well...so this should be done when the F-18 is done ...so I could transition to this one also

What do you guys think the best "practice" plane will be in the group? What plane should I spend the most time practicing on?
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:43 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

x3dflyer, dont' listen to "OHH this is such an advance jet" comments, Jets are jets, I think you will like the fact that if 1 turbine fails you can still bring your scale jet home on the other turbine. Scale Jets are harder to fly than sport, most of the veterans will tell you to get a boomerang or other twin boom as a trainer, I don't agree, esp if you having flying experience and understand. My first jet was yellow aircraft starfire, it was a lot harder to fly than a Scale bae hawk. I sold it and got the UL, which is a nice jet too.

For the elevators and for the ailerons I'm using Hitec Hs-7980 611 inch/once servos, the other servos will be hs-7950 for the flaps, rudders, and nose wheel. As per Rex's recommendations I will be counterbalancing the elevators to relieve stress on the servo.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:56 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

DiscoWings,

In today's environment with the pending FAA NOTAM and the AMA's efforts to preserve turbine modelling, the jet community tends to get understandably concerned when someone suggests that they aren't going to follow the rules. Given your post #27 and #31 in which (perhaps in jest) you display a certain cavalier attitude towards the AMA rules (they are not guidelines), the negative responses you are getting from members of the jet community is hardly surprising. A lot of us have a significant amount of money invested in this hobby and would like jet modelling to continue. Operating outside the rules jeopardizes the future of this hobby.

You've indicated that you are an AMA member and a waiver holder but that there seems to be a bit of a paperwork error at AMA HQ. Fair enough, mistakes like this can happen and you've indicated that you'll contact them to sort it all out.

In the mean time and in the interest of diffusing this concern, would you mind telling us the names of the CD's who signed off your waiver. I'm sure that they'll vouch for you and we can all take a bit of a breather.

Regards, and good luck with your F-18,

Jim
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:06 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120


Quote:
ORIGINAL: DiscoWings

like the fact that if 1 turbine fails you can still bring your scale jet home on the other turbine.
Ahsan,

This isn't always the case with twins. There is no guarantee that once a engine fails on a twin setup that it's going to ensure bringing the jet home. Sometimes depending on the airframe a single engine can cause a crash unless you know how to react immediately to the situation.

Andy
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:08 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120


Quote:
ORIGINAL: x3dflyer

fenderbean-

I asked Rex about that last night and he seemed to think that a single 500oz servo would be required if you were to do a single servo on the elevators..He seemed to think that should work ok...but the dual servo would be wayy better


As for jets...I have the following to learn on

Falcon 120 with 120MM EDF fan
CMP 90mm Hawk edf on 6s
Philip Avonds 84'' F-15 with an XPS 127MM fan system (12s)
Fly Eagle jet 1:9 Rafale with a Jetcat P70
Yellow Aircraft F-4 Phantom with 127MM XPS system (12s)

My plan is to practice with the EDF's and then transition to the Rafale......then hopefully the F18
I am getting ready to have a fly eagle 1:7 F-16 with a jetcat p80 built for me as well...so this should be done when the F-18 is done ...so I could transition to this one also

What do you guys think the best ''practice'' plane will be in the group? What plane should I spend the most time practicing on?
Why would a factory design a control surface to utilize two servos and then switch to one? Did they have an explanation for this? Have they tested this jet with one servo per?
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:08 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

Andy, you gonna post your findings from the AMA
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:09 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

Quote:
ORIGINAL: FenderBean

I had the same problem, I wasnt showing up on turbine list even after I had it. AMA is bad about updating the list. I am starting to have flash backs here [:-]

would a 500+ oz servo have problems on this jet? We always over do it on torque i mean heck 500 oz is almost 32 lbs of force.
Fender, I haven't calculated the area/speed loading ratio for this jet but if I recall, 32 lbs of force is relatively light compared to the force that can be generated on large airframes in a banking turn. One also has to consider the AMP draw on the single servo under those loads.

Andy
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:20 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

Disco, its not their business and if your AMA stuff is square then let AMA fix the problem and take the high road and don't argue with them, build your jet and prove them wrong. If the person who signed your stuff would like to give his name let him its not for u to put peoples names on a public forum. I cant stand people not minding there own business and jumping to assumptions about complete strangers! This guy never met me a day in his life and was calling people that were on the waiver list around my area, even called the day I test flew my jet.
I thought I blocked this person so I wouldnt see their post but I guess not. Just talk to rex or people who have built the jet, that way all the arm chair quarterbacks will not chime in. Good luck and when I get mine like the others I will do a build thread to help people in the future.
Quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjets_63

DiscoWings,

In today's environment with the pending FAA NOTAM and the AMA's efforts to preserve turbine modelling, the jet community tends to get understandably concerned when someone suggests that they aren't going to follow the rules. Given your post #27 and #31 in which (perhaps in jest) you display a certain cavalier attitude towards the AMA rules (they are not guidelines), the negative responses you are getting from members of the jet community is hardly surprising. A lot of us have a significant amount of money invested in this hobby and would like jet modelling to continue. Operating outside the rules jeopardizes the future of this hobby.

You've indicated that you are an AMA member and a waiver holder but that there seems to be a bit of a paperwork error at AMA HQ. Fair enough, mistakes like this can happen and you've indicated that you'll contact them to sort it all out.

In the mean time and in the interest of diffusing this concern, would you mind telling us the names of the CD's who signed off your waiver. I'm sure that they'll vouch for you and we can all take a bit of a breather.

Regards, and good luck with your F-18,

Jim
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:20 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

Quote:
ORIGINAL: bcovish

Andy, you gonna post your findings from the AMA

Sure it's basically everything Asham stated already. Only they stated that they never did receive any application for a waiver. And they did confirm that Asham was going to resend the info. If so, someone must have already checked out Asham in LA because they have to sign off on the waiver. Maybe he can tell us who did that to clear up the air on the issue. Also they mentioned that anyone with a AMA waiver CANNOT fly with anyone flying a jet who does not have a AMA waiver. And it is up to us to let them know if another member is flying a jet without a waiver. Moreover, they told me that one cannot opt out of the waiver list as this is how they inform people inquiring about the status of waiver holders for events etc. So Asham does have a AMA membership. He does not or has never had a waiver according to AMA.

Asham, if you lost the paperwork you will probably need to get your waiver signers to resign the app. Who was it? I may know those guys in Louisiana.

Andy
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:24 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

your talking G's the amount of force on the controls would not be that much. if you hung 32 pounds on a elevator you would probably tear the skin i will check my math again
Quote:
ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews

Quote:
ORIGINAL: FenderBean

I had the same problem, I wasnt showing up on turbine list even after I had it. AMA is bad about updating the list. I am starting to have flash backs here [:-]

would a 500+ oz servo have problems on this jet? We always over do it on torque i mean heck 500 oz is almost 32 lbs of force.
Fender, I haven't calculated the area/speed loading ratio for this jet but if I recall, 32 lbs of force is relatively light compared to the force that can be generated on large airframes in a banking turn. One also has to consider the AMP draw on the single servo under those loads.

Andy
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:24 PM
  #90
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

It's all of our business to make sure that ALL turbine jet flyers are AMA waivered.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: FenderBean

Disco, its not their business and if your AMA stuff is square then let AMA fix the problem and take the high road and don't argue with them, build your jet and prove them wrong.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:26 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

Quote:
ORIGINAL: FenderBean

your talking G's the amount of force on the controls would not be that much. if you hung 32 pounds on a elevator you would probably tear the skin i will check my math again
Quote:
ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews

Quote:
ORIGINAL: FenderBean

I had the same problem, I wasnt showing up on turbine list even after I had it. AMA is bad about updating the list. I am starting to have flash backs here [:-]

would a 500+ oz servo have problems on this jet? We always over do it on torque i mean heck 500 oz is almost 32 lbs of force.
Fender, I haven't calculated the area/speed loading ratio for this jet but if I recall, 32 lbs of force is relatively light compared to the force that can be generated on large airframes in a banking turn. One also has to consider the AMP draw on the single servo under those loads.

Andy
G's relate to torque lbs of force on the servo. No one is talking about putting 32 lbs on the surface. It's at the servo. Plus it depends on the installation because the effective torque lbs of force is reduced the further you get away from the control surface and how the hardware is mounted. so a 500 oz servo may only be giving you a percentage of the overall torque that may be required.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:27 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120


Quote:
ORIGINAL: x3dflyer

fenderbean-

I asked Rex about that last night and he seemed to think that a single 500oz servo would be required if you were to do a single servo on the elevators..He seemed to think that should work ok...but the dual servo would be wayy better


As for jets...I have the following to learn on

Falcon 120 with 120MM EDF fan
CMP 90mm Hawk edf on 6s
Philip Avonds 84'' F-15 with an XPS 127MM fan system (12s)
Fly Eagle jet 1:9 Rafale with a Jetcat P70
Yellow Aircraft F-4 Phantom with 127MM XPS system (12s)

My plan is to practice with the EDF's and then transition to the Rafale......then hopefully the F18
I am getting ready to have a fly eagle 1:7 F-16 with a jetcat p80 built for me as well...so this should be done when the F-18 is done ...so I could transition to this one also

What do you guys think the best ''practice'' plane will be in the group? What plane should I spend the most time practicing on?
A lot of people really like the Falcon 120 as a training jet. You should have no problem getting your waiver with the Rafale. Delta's are a bit easier too. Its too bad the Avonds F-15 isn't a turbine. That would be a nice one.

There is still one problem though.... You will need logged flights with a heavy Jet.... I believe 35lbs or more. Nothing you have mentioned fits that weight class. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just trying to help you through the process.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:32 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

yeah i agree but the elevator going threw the air moving only 1-2 inches wouldn't generate that much force. If you had that kind of force on the stab it would probably twist off the shaft, but who knows. If you yanked full back at full throttle the servo may stall but just for a second until the wings fold up Heck just be done with it get a 1200 oz seiko servo like I have on the rudder of my 150cc

I guess we can agree to disagree about whos business is whos. [8D] I just bought two pistols today and one holds 19 rounds in the mag

Quote:
ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews


Quote:
ORIGINAL: FenderBean

your talking G's the amount of force on the controls would not be that much. if you hung 32 pounds on a elevator you would probably tear the skin i will check my math again
Quote:
ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews


Quote:
ORIGINAL: FenderBean

I had the same problem, I wasnt showing up on turbine list even after I had it. AMA is bad about updating the list. I am starting to have flash backs here [:-]

would a 500+ oz servo have problems on this jet? We always over do it on torque i mean heck 500 oz is almost 32 lbs of force.
Fender, I haven't calculated the area/speed loading ratio for this jet but if I recall, 32 lbs of force is relatively light compared to the force that can be generated on large airframes in a banking turn. One also has to consider the AMP draw on the single servo under those loads.

Andy
G's relate to torque lbs of force on the servo. No one is talking about putting 32 lbs on the surface. It's at the servo.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:34 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120


Quote:
There is still one problem though.... You will need logged flights with a heavy Jet.... I believe 35lbs or more. Nothing you have mentioned fits that weight class. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just trying to help you through the process.

well...in that case it looks like I will have to buy myself something in that size range then...you're right....none of those are 35lbs...the Fly eagle 1:7 f-16 probably wont cut it either?

I am considering making the Avonds F-15 into a turbine...but that probably won't make the weight cut either.

hmmm...time to start planning for another one I guess..

Thanks for the help
Anthony
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:37 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120


Quote:
ORIGINAL: DiscoWings

x3dflyer, dont' listen to ''OHH this is such an advance jet'' comments, Jets are jets, I think you will like the fact that if 1 turbine fails you can still bring your scale jet home on the other turbine. Scale Jets are harder to fly than sport, most of the veterans will tell you to get a boomerang or other twin boom as a trainer, I don't agree, esp if you having flying experience and understand. My first jet was yellow aircraft starfire, it was a lot harder to fly than a Scale bae hawk. I sold it and got the UL, which is a nice jet too.

For the elevators and for the ailerons I'm using Hitec Hs-7980 611 inch/once servos, the other servos will be hs-7950 for the flaps, rudders, and nose wheel. As per Rex's recommendations I will be counterbalancing the elevators to relieve stress on the servo.
Seriously.... I have been trying understand your defensiveness but it is become very easy relate to other's frustration with you. This is crappy advice.

X3D, you seem like a smart guy. No one has to lead you around by the nose so that you don't get caught up with bad ideas, so I will let your common sense sort it out. Do all heli's fly the same.... enough said.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:38 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120


Quote:
ORIGINAL: x3dflyer


Quote:
There is still one problem though.... You will need logged flights with a heavy Jet.... I believe 35lbs or more. Nothing you have mentioned fits that weight class. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just trying to help you through the process.

well...in that case it looks like I will have to buy myself something in that size range then...you're right....none of those are 35lbs...the Fly eagle 1:7 f-16 probably wont cut it either?

I am considering making the Avonds F-15 into a turbine...but that probably won't make the weight cut either.

hmmm...time to start planning for another one I guess..

Thanks for the help
Anthony
I sounds like a problem but in reality its a favor. You get to buy another Jet :-)
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:38 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

To get the turbine waiver isnt the weight lower like 12lbs? I just read it again says 12lbs are we talking about something different?
Quote:
ORIGINAL: x3dflyer


Quote:
There is still one problem though.... You will need logged flights with a heavy Jet.... I believe 35lbs or more. Nothing you have mentioned fits that weight class. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just trying to help you through the process.

well...in that case it looks like I will have to buy myself something in that size range then...you're right....none of those are 35lbs...the Fly eagle 1:7 f-16 probably wont cut it either?

I am considering making the Avonds F-15 into a turbine...but that probably won't make the weight cut either.

hmmm...time to start planning for another one I guess..

Thanks for the help
Anthony
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:45 PM
  #98
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

Yes, just for the waiver.... but we are talking about him eventually flying his big F18 which will be experimental rated.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:48 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120


Quote:
ORIGINAL: FenderBean

To get the turbine waiver isnt the weight lower like 12lbs? I just read it again says 12lbs are we talking about something different?

12 lbs dry for waiver, 25 pounds dry for LTMA-1.

Not you FB, but there is some great advice coming on this thread, "hey stick to a 1/6 scale twin turbine experimental, it is great to learn on" blah blah.

Where is the great Pete OOchroma when you need him (another non waiver holder who loved to hand out advice)..........
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:48 PM
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Default RE: Best DUAL Turbine setup for Fly Eagle Jets 1:6 120

Quote:
ORIGINAL: FenderBean

yeah i agree but the elevator going threw the air moving only 1-2 inches wouldn't generate that much force. If you had that kind of force on the stab it would probably twist off the shaft, but who knows. If you yanked full back at full throttle the servo may stall but just for a second until the wings fold up Heck just be done with it get a 1200 oz seiko servo like I have on the rudder of my 150cc



Right it's not an issue at straight and level flight. But if you push the envelope it can really go up fast. Here is a simple calculator that anyone can run to see if the servo has enough torque:

http://www.mnbigbirds.com/Servo%20To...0Caculator.htm

And congrats on the guns. I'm looking at an FN 5/7 pistol that holds 20-30 rounds of 5.7 x 28mm (same round as a P90)
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