Jetmodeler

Frank,
Missed FJ this year, but flying off the grass was not the issue, we flew 90mm EDF's off the grass in 2012 with no real issues, longer takeoff roll and bit more elevator travel to help them rotate, that's all. Definitely dispelled any concerns I had of grass being an issue, a little different to deal with but not really hard on models equipped with shock absorbing struts and proper landing gear. My turbines, no issues at all with grass, glad I came and flew off the grass, proved it really isn't an issue with a field of this quality. I did however feel in 2012 the pit area felt confining, access to the campers was a long walk, and parking was busy, also too busy for your time keeping people moving clear of the area behind the tents. This is something I'm told you addressed this year, well done I say.
I hope to make many more Florida Jets, be it on Paradise Field or elsewhere.
Jim Hiller

Roger Shipley

My Feedback: (35)

I hope to attend Florida Jets in 2014 especially if it is at Paradise Field (Grass).....
Roger

BirdofpraY

My Feedback: (31)

I use to fly at Florida jets and I prefer a paved runway. I guess I am spoiled having a runway here in Ocala to fly off versus flying of grass at a event, so I just go to see what's new as a spectator and old friends. I like my jets to much to put them on a grass runway but that's just my thoughts.

BTW there is a new jet show coming to Florida more like a jet scramble for jet pilots to the central Florida area and will have a 5000 foot paved runway to fly off. Some details have to be ironed out but the go ahead has been given from the airport manager for this to happen.

GFoushi

First, I have no problem with the grass as it is..... I have flown for the past 3 years at FL Jet, Top Gun & Monster Planes. I’ve had a nose gear fail and not had any damage thanks to the grass!!

I think we have two options. We can change the type of grass option #1 Or put in a paved runway adjacent to it #2.

The logistical problem of moving the event is a very expensive one. The sheer manpower to run the event is a challenge I can imagine. These people all live in close proximity of the event. Now, you’re talking about getting commitments from them to travel and expenses to house and feed them would be very expensive I’m sure.

So, the question is what’s the costs to improve the grass? Or the cost to put in a paved runway? Last time I checked Frank is not crapping out gold nuggets? So, what would it take to do it? $20K or $30K maybe more.

As a group can we come together and put some cash in the pot. If, 200 of us gave $100 each that’s $20K. Maybe for those who help get into the event free for a year. I’m sure Frank would hook us up.

I think moving from Lakeland would be a mistake because of all the options we have for Hotels, Restaurants and Entertainment. Just my forty cents worth!!

jorge*jet

My Feedback: (6)

Asphalt sounds cool, but if is grass at the end of the day count me in as well.
Jorge Escalona

Jack Diaz

My Feedback: (1)

I know you are going to come up with a switch to go "grass or asphalt" according to the flight phase

jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

I was there Sunday. Came to watch with friends that were flying and had a good time. The pros that I saw was that if you had a gear up landing it didn't grind your jet up. Cons, I saw 1 turbine that didn't get enough speed to rotate and went off into the tall grass. Then there was The f14, I believe it sucked up grass clippings and flamed out 1 turbine. I didn't fly so I didn't vote.

jorge*jet

My Feedback: (6)

Jack,
Asphalt will be a new flight condition. I can teach you the program!
Jorge

bevar

My Feedback: (27)

Frank,

I say keep it at Paradise Field. In Europe most events are held on grass and no one seems to mind. Up here I fly mostly on grass and love it. This year I flew the Bolicat many times at FJ and it has tiny, wornout tires/wheels that are smaller than 2 inches and had no issues.

Where the rubber meets the road is that people will complain about the grass site and then ***** if you move to the paved because its in the boonies...the pavement is too rough ETC.

Have FJ where it is best...best for you...best for the pilots...and best for the community. I vote to keep it where it is.

Beave

PREACHHAMES

My Feedback: (58)

I have been to Florida Jets the past 8 years & have flown on both surfaces. My personal preference is asphalt.

The event for me is a time of vacation as well as a time to catch up with pilots I see only once a year.

I plan to come regardless of the surface.

Greg Hames

jet time

My Feedback: (75)

I think the location now is great. We did have problems sucking up grass, but it was the "clippings". If the runway is blown off or bagged when cut it will be fine. Everything you did Frank was first class and we thank you for that. Clean the grass off and keep it there!!

Lowell

bons

My vote is to stay at Lakeland. While there are some downsides to grass, I think the benefits related to mishaps such as minimal damage with belly landings, the fly over area, the landing area around the runways outweigh the negatives. Aditionally, the cost to move could be high and the area around Lakeland provides some good hotels and places to eat and hang out. I don't think you will be able to find any one place that is perfect. No matter where it is held, I will attend. 2013 was my first year flying at FJ after many years as a spectator. As Greg stated, it would be great if a paved runway could be added next to the grass. That might make Lakeland the perfect spot.

Tony Bonanno

VF84sluggo

My Feedback: (55)

I haven't been to FL Jets (but not for a lack of wanting to make it) so I didn't vote, but I agree with Boli here.

BTW, I had to land gear-up at SJS, and by having some nice grass handy the jet ended up without a scratch...heck, I think the bottom was even a little cleaner after the jet slid to a stop than it was when I took off!

Sluggo

ledd4u

My Feedback: (23)

Frank the field is fine. Don't move anything anywhere else. This field is as close to the shape of the old polo club flying site. Make the vote available to the flying contestants only, since we are the ones that pay and support YOU. Absolutely nothing wrong with this field. Grass fields are generally gentler on aircraft finishes, wing tips etc.

FTiano

My Feedback: (11)

I have no idea the cost of placing a strip of hard surface adjacent to the grass runway, but it IS something to think about. Of course, the minute I start thinkiing I am presented with a whole new bunch of unanswered questions!
For example: The current grass runway is 70 feet wide by 800 feet long. How much asphalt is needed? Is a strip 30 feet wide by 600 feet long enough? I imagine it would only be used for takeoffs, right? I mean, everybody prefers to land on the grass right? You don't need brakes, roll out is shortened, nose wheel bites immediately, no wing tip scuffing, and a belly landing is a non event. Right? And, WHERE do we place the hard surface runway? Ideally, on the far edge of the grass runway, but that would mean that guys preferring the hard surface would be standing 80 feet or so away from their model as it sits on the runway for takeoff. We can't make it on the near edge, there are concrete pads and a Sprinkler system imbedded along that edge! And, would 30 feet be wide enough? should it be 40 feet? Or wider?
Let's say it costs $30,000, could I get 100 guys to donate $300 for a "Lifetime" registration fee to Florida Jets? I doubt it. So for all intents and purposes, I'd have to fund it myself and frankly I just can't afford it. It would take many, many years to recover that expense. So, I'll contemplate this a bit longer and make a decision. Of course, No matter what the decision is, it can't be the right one! I am told by some people, like my friend Bob Violett, if we don't make a change to a hard surface, Florida Jets is basically doomed. I'd hate to see that happen, but then, perhaps a big War Bird event would fit nicely at Paradise Field that time of year.

bevar

My Feedback: (27)

Frank...I'm good for $300...Sluggo is and I'll bet BV too.

97 left to go.

Boli

Greg Wright

My Feedback: (6)

Make that 96 as i would give you $300 with no problem.
But as i said before the grass is fine for me and it will only get better with time and maintenance.

JackD

My Feedback: (4)

Frank,

If you are seriously considering putting a strip, I would give Geotex or Petromat a thought. Our local runway is petromat, its been there for 2 years already and it works perfectly. I personally like it better than asphalt.

If you want pictures from my field, I can take some.

I don´t know the cost of the material, but it is way cheaper than asphalt. And it doesnt take any machinery or skilled labor to install. In our club, the members installed it in one day. (after prepping the surface of course)

The only thing to keep in mind, is that you need to install it in advance of the event, because it is like monokote, it needs to shrink. Sun will do that

Let me know if you want more info

stinson sr-9f

Zhills airport has more traffic then linder. and is much smaller on a average weekend they have gliders and skydivers in the pattern all day long my mom lives on the north side of the airport .Also  im finishing up my private pilot at the local flying school ...Trust me its way to active for rc stuff and they have a rc club 5 miles away I think its electric only ....Im no jet guy but I would not move from such a great location.besides the grass is a lot less bumpy then the old tarmac .  Hope this helps Frank good luck

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Frank,

Since I haven't been to Fl Jets for a few years, I've stayed on the sidelines for the grass vs. asphalt discussion, but since you brought up Bob's comment - which points to the decline in attendance at Fl Jets, I thought that I'd explain why we haven't come in the past few years...

The first time I attended Fl Jets was the last year it was in Brunnell. Although the runway was pretty wide and it was 2 hours or so closer to VA, I saw nothing that special about that place vs. where you had it on the taxiway at Lakeland after that.

For us, the main reasons that we stopped going to Fl Jets, and have not made it back are:

1) its at the wrong time of year - March is during the university semester and its hard for me to get away because of my classes, but even more, its during the school year and its hard to get my son Louie out of school as well. In addition, and maybe even a bigger consideration is that in March, the weather down there kind of sucks. Every time we went down there it was cold, grey, (at least on some days) and windy (on almost all days). I can get that weather here in VA without the 14 hour drive (although if this "global warming" keeps up and we continue to get snow in March, I may change my opinion).

2) its expensive to attend - here I'm not talking about the registration fee, but the gas, lodging, food, etc. For us, from VA, Fl Jets is a $1500+ trip, all things considered. That much money for 4 days of flying in iffy weather just isn't worth it for us.

3) its too short - with the expense and travel time, its just not worth going all that way for 4 days of flying. Of course, if its longer, but still in the March/April time frame, then that causes even more of an issue with missing school/work, but more time to fly in better weather would be a bigger draw.

4) there are more jet events now that are better suited for us in terms of time of year, location (travel time), and length of event (4 days is now the *minimum* length for a jet event, some now allow flying for 10+ days...). We only have so many $'s to spend on attending jet events and there is more competition for those of us jet flyers further north to draw us away.

Granted, I *know* you have constraints on changing things to fix some of these problems, and some of them, like the travel expense, you can't fix, but I thought that it would be good for you to know what the issues are for someone who used to attend Fl Jets, but now can't.

As far as the grass is concerned, its not a big issue for us, and I don't think its the main reason for the drop in attendance. I've flown jets off the grass at Joe Nall (as has BV) and at Farview in PA (again as has BV), and there are actually many advantages to it, as many in this thread have said. In fact, flying off of grass is in some ways, much more relaxing than hard surface as the landing is not such a risky maneuver. I would say however, that you *must* fix the issue with the clippings as a flameout due to grass FOD would be really annoying to say the least.

The bottom line, from my perspective, is that the grass isn't the issue. It doesn't look like it was a major issue for the guys that went this year, I don't think its a major issue for guys who don't come to Fl Jets (at least the ones I talk to), and it certainly isn't the main reason we haven't come recently. Of course I can't say for sure, but I think that if all you did was move from your current field (which you've worked hard on) to a paved surface without changing anything else, you would not see a real increase in attendance.

It would be a shame if you make an irrevocable change in location just to try and "fix" this and it didn't solve the problem...

Bob

michaelsarysz

I feel the grass was fine, I do have bigger models however.

I think if they continue to roll it like you have and next time blow the clippings away, it is a nice field.

Just a thought,

plus . . . . another 40 miles :/

ILL GO EITHER WAY

cloudancer03

My Feedback: (22)

The lakeland site is good.amenites and lodging at lakeland are good.if frank has to move everything to the alternate site there is a manhour cost and the paradise site is gone.perhaps a few photos of the alternate site showing the runway condition and total space available would help.

bons

Excellent points by Bob re decline in attendance and I think Jack's idea is also excellent to pursue. There was an article in Model Aviation a month or two ago with all the details re the runway Jack was mentioning.

Tony

VF84sluggo

My Feedback: (55)

Frank, as Beave said, if it does get to where you are serious about looking for "plank owners" for a new runway, I'm in.

Sluggo

jtlittle

My Feedback: (7)

Frank count on the Littles for $300 for an alternate strip. We prefer grass.