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FLORIDA JETS MOVING?
04-06-2013, 03:55 AM
#52
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RE: FLORIDA JETS MOVING?
Okay, perhaps time to put this to bed. The reason I can't put down that Material Runway, as Jack suggested, is that the area is used by Sun n Fun for their massive Fly-In each year.
That material would be in shreds in a heartbeat!
What is very strange to me is that the POLL tells us that 70% favor a move to a different location, BUT, the individual responses, from names I recognize,
thought the field was in excellent shape and had little or no problems. Perhaps I need to try Florida Jets one more year, and see what happens.
We are trying some new techniques for Top Gun, that will tell us a lot.
Thank you all for commenting.
That material would be in shreds in a heartbeat!
What is very strange to me is that the POLL tells us that 70% favor a move to a different location, BUT, the individual responses, from names I recognize,
thought the field was in excellent shape and had little or no problems. Perhaps I need to try Florida Jets one more year, and see what happens.
We are trying some new techniques for Top Gun, that will tell us a lot.
Thank you all for commenting.
04-06-2013, 04:22 AM
#53
RE: FLORIDA JETS MOVING?
ORIGINAL: FTiano
[snip]
What is very strange to me is that the POLL tells us that 70% favor a move to a different location, BUT, the individual responses, from names I recognize,
thought the field was in excellent shape and had little or no problems.
[snip]
[snip]
What is very strange to me is that the POLL tells us that 70% favor a move to a different location, BUT, the individual responses, from names I recognize,
thought the field was in excellent shape and had little or no problems.
[snip]
Flying jet off of a well-maintained grass field is not a problem...
Bob
04-06-2013, 04:44 AM
#54
RE: FLORIDA JETS MOVING?
You're probably right. The most valid votes I would think would be from people who attended in the past that no longer attend or perhaps people that would attend if it was hard surface for whatever reason. Most of the posts I believe are from people who will come no matter what, the core group? Ive flown off of both. Another thing nice about grass is that you don't have to be limited to a 30 ft wide runway. It's easy to expand. I do prefer hard surface though especially if I think my landing gear is a little fragile. Once again, I didn't vote.
04-06-2013, 05:53 AM
#55
RE: FLORIDA JETS MOVING?
HI Frank and Jet Pilots, I say , stay at Paradise Field for these reasons.
1-Great location.
2- Sun is not a issue, can fly all day
3- Parking for hundreds of cars
4- lots of room for campers, power available
5- Lots of spectators, to help pay for the amenities
6-Hotels, just a short distance away
7-many places to eat.
8-Great Saturday night dinner
9-This year, their was more tents than ever, at a reasonable rate
10-Frank does a great job and would not like to lose his efforts, and like he says, once gone, can not return.
Rcpete
1-Great location.
2- Sun is not a issue, can fly all day
3- Parking for hundreds of cars
4- lots of room for campers, power available
5- Lots of spectators, to help pay for the amenities
6-Hotels, just a short distance away
7-many places to eat.
8-Great Saturday night dinner
9-This year, their was more tents than ever, at a reasonable rate
10-Frank does a great job and would not like to lose his efforts, and like he says, once gone, can not return.
Rcpete
04-06-2013, 07:46 AM
#56
RE: FLORIDA JETS MOVING?
even though I like a hard surface (not an euphemism) I have no problems with the grass and this year the field conditions were the best yet. I been going to FLJ since, uh like 03. I have small wheel planes and don't have much issues apart from a long roll out. So as long and the bumps and humps are rolled I'm good.
I will say, like others have mentioned, I will take amenities over a hard surface. Lakeland is easy to get to, plenty of hotels and places to eat... and drink :P. And for some people that may come with family and want to go to the orlando or tampa parks it's a good location.
yes a few years have had marginal weather conditions so the time of year may not be the best, but honestly thats just a roll of the dice pretty much anytime of the year in florida?
thanks for the pole FT, had a great time again.
I will say, like others have mentioned, I will take amenities over a hard surface. Lakeland is easy to get to, plenty of hotels and places to eat... and drink :P. And for some people that may come with family and want to go to the orlando or tampa parks it's a good location.
yes a few years have had marginal weather conditions so the time of year may not be the best, but honestly thats just a roll of the dice pretty much anytime of the year in florida?
thanks for the pole FT, had a great time again.
04-06-2013, 09:38 AM
#57
RE: FLORIDA JETS MOVING?
So what is the original problem? What is BV referring to? Low turnout?
I went pretty much every year from 98 to 2007. I knew guys that had big iron ($$$) that only wanted to fly on a full size runway like bunnell or Superman. Not all of them said it but they liked the idea of having a couple thousand feet of runway downwind of where they were standing when landing.
I went pretty much every year from 98 to 2007. I knew guys that had big iron ($$$) that only wanted to fly on a full size runway like bunnell or Superman. Not all of them said it but they liked the idea of having a couple thousand feet of runway downwind of where they were standing when landing.
THAKNS FOR THINKING OF THE PILOTS.. I KNOW YOU WILL DO WHAT IT TAKES ..
04-07-2013, 05:51 AM
#59
My Feedback: (41)
RE: FLORIDA JETS MOVING?
+1
HI Frank and Jet Pilots, I say , stay at Paradise Field for these reasons.
1-Great location.
2- Sun is not a issue, can fly all day
3- Parking for hundreds of cars
4- lots of room for campers, power available
5- Lots of spectators, to help pay for the amenities
6-Hotels, just a short distance away
7-many places to eat.
8-Great Saturday night dinner
9-This year, their was more tents than ever, at a reasonable rate
10-Frank does a great job and would not like to lose his efforts, and like he says, once gone, can not return.
Rcpete
[/quote]
HI Frank and Jet Pilots, I say , stay at Paradise Field for these reasons.
1-Great location.
2- Sun is not a issue, can fly all day
3- Parking for hundreds of cars
4- lots of room for campers, power available
5- Lots of spectators, to help pay for the amenities
6-Hotels, just a short distance away
7-many places to eat.
8-Great Saturday night dinner
9-This year, their was more tents than ever, at a reasonable rate
10-Frank does a great job and would not like to lose his efforts, and like he says, once gone, can not return.
Rcpete
[/quote]
04-07-2013, 08:53 AM
#60
RE: FLORIDA JETS MOVING?
ORIGINAL: rcpete347
HI Frank and Jet Pilots, I say , stay at Paradise Field for these reasons.
1-Great location.
2- Sun is not a issue, can fly all day
3- Parking for hundreds of cars
4- lots of room for campers, power available
5- Lots of spectators, to help pay for the amenities
6-Hotels, just a short distance away
7-many places to eat.
8-Great Saturday night dinner
9-This year, their was more tents than ever, at a reasonable rate
10-Frank does a great job and would not like to lose his efforts, and like he says, once gone, can not return.
Rcpete
HI Frank and Jet Pilots, I say , stay at Paradise Field for these reasons.
1-Great location.
2- Sun is not a issue, can fly all day
3- Parking for hundreds of cars
4- lots of room for campers, power available
5- Lots of spectators, to help pay for the amenities
6-Hotels, just a short distance away
7-many places to eat.
8-Great Saturday night dinner
9-This year, their was more tents than ever, at a reasonable rate
10-Frank does a great job and would not like to lose his efforts, and like he says, once gone, can not return.
Rcpete
Vernon Montgomery
04-08-2013, 03:15 AM
#61
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RE: FLORIDA JETS MOVING?
ORIGINAL: rhklenke
Frank,
Since I haven't been to Fl Jets for a few years, I've stayed on the sidelines for the grass vs. asphalt discussion, but since you brought up Bob's comment - which points to the decline in attendance at Fl Jets, I thought that I'd explain why we haven't come in the past few years...
The first time I attended Fl Jets was the last year it was in Brunnell. Although the runway was pretty wide and it was 2 hours or so closer to VA, I saw nothing that special about that place vs. where you had it on the taxiway at Lakeland after that.
For us, the main reasons that we stopped going to Fl Jets, and have not made it back are:
1) its at the wrong time of year - March is during the university semester and its hard for me to get away because of my classes, but even more, its during the school year and its hard to get my son Louie out of school as well. In addition, and maybe even a bigger consideration is that in March, the weather down there kind of sucks. Every time we went down there it was cold, grey, (at least on some days) and windy (on almost all days). I can get that weather here in VA without the 14 hour drive (although if this ''global warming'' keeps up and we continue to get snow in March, I may change my opinion).
2) its expensive to attend - here I'm not talking about the registration fee, but the gas, lodging, food, etc. For us, from VA, Fl Jets is a $1500+ trip, all things considered. That much money for 4 days of flying in iffy weather just isn't worth it for us.
3) its too short - with the expense and travel time, its just not worth going all that way for 4 days of flying. Of course, if its longer, but still in the March/April time frame, then that causes even more of an issue with missing school/work, but more time to fly in better weather would be a bigger draw.
4) there are more jet events now that are better suited for us in terms of time of year, location (travel time), and length of event (4 days is now the *minimum* length for a jet event, some now allow flying for 10+ days...). We only have so many $'s to spend on attending jet events and there is more competition for those of us jet flyers further north to draw us away.
Granted, I *know* you have constraints on changing things to fix some of these problems, and some of them, like the travel expense, you can't fix, but I thought that it would be good for you to know what the issues are for someone who used to attend Fl Jets, but now can't.
As far as the grass is concerned, its not a big issue for us, and I don't think its the main reason for the drop in attendance. I've flown jets off the grass at Joe Nall (as has BV) and at Farview in PA (again as has BV), and there are actually many advantages to it, as many in this thread have said. In fact, flying off of grass is in some ways, much more relaxing than hard surface as the landing is not such a risky maneuver. I would say however, that you *must* fix the issue with the clippings as a flameout due to grass FOD would be really annoying to say the least.
The bottom line, from my perspective, is that the grass isn't the issue. It doesn't look like it was a major issue for the guys that went this year, I don't think its a major issue for guys who don't come to Fl Jets (at least the ones I talk to), and it certainly isn't the main reason we haven't come recently. Of course I can't say for sure, but I think that if all you did was move from your current field (which you've worked hard on) to a paved surface without changing anything else, you would not see a real increase in attendance.
It would be a shame if you make an irrevocable change in location just to try and ''fix'' this and it didn't solve the problem...
Bob
ORIGINAL: FTiano
[snip]
I am told by some people, like my friend Bob Violett, if we don't make a change to a hard surface, Florida Jets is basically doomed. I'd hate to see that happen, but then, perhaps a big War Bird event would fit nicely at Paradise Field that time of year.
[snip]
I am told by some people, like my friend Bob Violett, if we don't make a change to a hard surface, Florida Jets is basically doomed. I'd hate to see that happen, but then, perhaps a big War Bird event would fit nicely at Paradise Field that time of year.
Since I haven't been to Fl Jets for a few years, I've stayed on the sidelines for the grass vs. asphalt discussion, but since you brought up Bob's comment - which points to the decline in attendance at Fl Jets, I thought that I'd explain why we haven't come in the past few years...
The first time I attended Fl Jets was the last year it was in Brunnell. Although the runway was pretty wide and it was 2 hours or so closer to VA, I saw nothing that special about that place vs. where you had it on the taxiway at Lakeland after that.
For us, the main reasons that we stopped going to Fl Jets, and have not made it back are:
1) its at the wrong time of year - March is during the university semester and its hard for me to get away because of my classes, but even more, its during the school year and its hard to get my son Louie out of school as well. In addition, and maybe even a bigger consideration is that in March, the weather down there kind of sucks. Every time we went down there it was cold, grey, (at least on some days) and windy (on almost all days). I can get that weather here in VA without the 14 hour drive (although if this ''global warming'' keeps up and we continue to get snow in March, I may change my opinion).
2) its expensive to attend - here I'm not talking about the registration fee, but the gas, lodging, food, etc. For us, from VA, Fl Jets is a $1500+ trip, all things considered. That much money for 4 days of flying in iffy weather just isn't worth it for us.
3) its too short - with the expense and travel time, its just not worth going all that way for 4 days of flying. Of course, if its longer, but still in the March/April time frame, then that causes even more of an issue with missing school/work, but more time to fly in better weather would be a bigger draw.
4) there are more jet events now that are better suited for us in terms of time of year, location (travel time), and length of event (4 days is now the *minimum* length for a jet event, some now allow flying for 10+ days...). We only have so many $'s to spend on attending jet events and there is more competition for those of us jet flyers further north to draw us away.
Granted, I *know* you have constraints on changing things to fix some of these problems, and some of them, like the travel expense, you can't fix, but I thought that it would be good for you to know what the issues are for someone who used to attend Fl Jets, but now can't.
As far as the grass is concerned, its not a big issue for us, and I don't think its the main reason for the drop in attendance. I've flown jets off the grass at Joe Nall (as has BV) and at Farview in PA (again as has BV), and there are actually many advantages to it, as many in this thread have said. In fact, flying off of grass is in some ways, much more relaxing than hard surface as the landing is not such a risky maneuver. I would say however, that you *must* fix the issue with the clippings as a flameout due to grass FOD would be really annoying to say the least.
The bottom line, from my perspective, is that the grass isn't the issue. It doesn't look like it was a major issue for the guys that went this year, I don't think its a major issue for guys who don't come to Fl Jets (at least the ones I talk to), and it certainly isn't the main reason we haven't come recently. Of course I can't say for sure, but I think that if all you did was move from your current field (which you've worked hard on) to a paved surface without changing anything else, you would not see a real increase in attendance.
It would be a shame if you make an irrevocable change in location just to try and ''fix'' this and it didn't solve the problem...
Bob
04-08-2013, 10:14 AM
#62
RE: FLORIDA JETS MOVING?
I think a lot of guys select what events they attend based on the facilities, and mainly the runway, and this is in particular with a perspective on what their local flying field conditions may compare as.
I personally like flying on grass, and we have one of the best grass fields on the Northeast where I fly. ANY JET will fly off off grass .. I have flows fast high wing loading jets with small wheels, to over 50lbs scale jets .. as well as things like all sorts of Habu electric types and anything in between. A good friend has probably around 100 flights now off of grass at our field on a JMP firebird. Even BVM F4s handle the grass with no problems. There is no issue as to damage if one knows how to fly. I can see where some pilots may not like the grass as it tends to "bite" a bit especially with ground over steering, or slamming hard into a runway on landing. .. takes some more power and distance for takeoff ... By all accounts I have heard, and seen in pictures and videos, the grass at Paradise field is top notch for flying anything RC.
with that said, If I am to travel to an event, I would like to have pavement .. just because its different that what i have locally .. Paved runways also do offer a more scale realism. Lets face it , a f-16 rolling down a grass runway does not look as good as a nice paved roll out.
No with this said, We might be attending FLjets next year, however it would not be based on weather the runway is grass or paved. , and would be more along the lines of Pete's list of positives for the current location.
Wojtek
I personally like flying on grass, and we have one of the best grass fields on the Northeast where I fly. ANY JET will fly off off grass .. I have flows fast high wing loading jets with small wheels, to over 50lbs scale jets .. as well as things like all sorts of Habu electric types and anything in between. A good friend has probably around 100 flights now off of grass at our field on a JMP firebird. Even BVM F4s handle the grass with no problems. There is no issue as to damage if one knows how to fly. I can see where some pilots may not like the grass as it tends to "bite" a bit especially with ground over steering, or slamming hard into a runway on landing. .. takes some more power and distance for takeoff ... By all accounts I have heard, and seen in pictures and videos, the grass at Paradise field is top notch for flying anything RC.
with that said, If I am to travel to an event, I would like to have pavement .. just because its different that what i have locally .. Paved runways also do offer a more scale realism. Lets face it , a f-16 rolling down a grass runway does not look as good as a nice paved roll out.
No with this said, We might be attending FLjets next year, however it would not be based on weather the runway is grass or paved. , and would be more along the lines of Pete's list of positives for the current location.
Wojtek
