FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
04-18-2013, 08:26 AM
#53
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: rbxbear44
I assume NOTHING! if there is a Honeycomb piece with a bolt through it...I remove the bolt and sandwich it with AP to include the whole size of the Honeycomb piece I see the potential weakness in. I don't really think about the manufacturer...it's mine now! But that's just me.
I assume NOTHING! if there is a Honeycomb piece with a bolt through it...I remove the bolt and sandwich it with AP to include the whole size of the Honeycomb piece I see the potential weakness in. I don't really think about the manufacturer...it's mine now! But that's just me.
04-18-2013, 08:28 AM
#54
My Feedback: (76)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 2,715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: Rcmodlercalifornia
With all respect, I think you miss the main issue here. As I posted on the F14 crash thread, this for me is the straw that has broken the Camels back. The fact of the matter is that this small segment of the hobby is clearly not safe at all. I will be sending the F14 crash link along with links to lots of other turbine crashes to the FAA and request that they address this danger in their upcoming rule making process.
When I look at YouTube, I see many dangerous turbine crashes with all brands including BVM and skymaster flown by competent pilots. These were turbine waiver pilots, flying under guidelines from AMA, and they still crashed due to electronic failure, structural failure, or ''unknown''. This is just not safe in every way shape or form, and this small segment puts our whole hobby at risk - including electrics.
AMA has no way to address these safety issues, as is evidenced by this and many other crashes. In the FEJ F14 crash case it was a professional build flown by a competent turbine waiver pilot.
I have an 8 year old little boy, and at our field one of these flying bombs crashed due to unknown issues. It came apart in flight and crashed away from the spectator area by luck...had it gone the other way it could have killed my little boy.
I urge you all to look inside yourselves and do the right thing. No matter how good a pilot you are, or how good a brand you buy, you can still crash and end up killing spectators...including kids, like my little boy. For the sake of 95%+ of the people and kids in this hobby, ground your turbine jets and fly something safer....it is just a matter of time till your activities kill innocent people and ruin this hobby for us all.
I am sorry if I have offended but this is my very strong opinion based on safety that I bet is shared by the majority of aero molders. In the spirit of fairness, I will also be copying my FAA complaint to the AMA.
With all respect, I think you miss the main issue here. As I posted on the F14 crash thread, this for me is the straw that has broken the Camels back. The fact of the matter is that this small segment of the hobby is clearly not safe at all. I will be sending the F14 crash link along with links to lots of other turbine crashes to the FAA and request that they address this danger in their upcoming rule making process.
When I look at YouTube, I see many dangerous turbine crashes with all brands including BVM and skymaster flown by competent pilots. These were turbine waiver pilots, flying under guidelines from AMA, and they still crashed due to electronic failure, structural failure, or ''unknown''. This is just not safe in every way shape or form, and this small segment puts our whole hobby at risk - including electrics.
AMA has no way to address these safety issues, as is evidenced by this and many other crashes. In the FEJ F14 crash case it was a professional build flown by a competent turbine waiver pilot.
I have an 8 year old little boy, and at our field one of these flying bombs crashed due to unknown issues. It came apart in flight and crashed away from the spectator area by luck...had it gone the other way it could have killed my little boy.
I urge you all to look inside yourselves and do the right thing. No matter how good a pilot you are, or how good a brand you buy, you can still crash and end up killing spectators...including kids, like my little boy. For the sake of 95%+ of the people and kids in this hobby, ground your turbine jets and fly something safer....it is just a matter of time till your activities kill innocent people and ruin this hobby for us all.
I am sorry if I have offended but this is my very strong opinion based on safety that I bet is shared by the majority of aero molders. In the spirit of fairness, I will also be copying my FAA complaint to the AMA.
04-18-2013, 08:42 AM
#55
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (49)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: SANTA ANA, CA
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
I apparently haven't been clear enough for some folks. My zero tolerance policy applies only to aircraft large enough to exceed the 55lb AMA LTMAI restriction. If your FEJ aircraft is large enough to suggest that it might exceed 55lbs, I'm going to check it. If the LTMA does not apply, go fly your jet, no problem. FEJ is currently the only ARF mfg offering the quantity and variety of jets which could easily exceed 55 lbs and is also having confirmed issues with substandard design or build methods. Hence my attention specifically to them.
Trust me, if you show up with an 130" SkyMaster F-104 at my event, I'm going to weigh it to be sure it's not 55lbs+ prior to flight, unless you already have a LTMA Permit to Fly. If it weighs 55.1lbs and you don't have an LTMA Permit to Fly on file, take it home!
David S
Trust me, if you show up with an 130" SkyMaster F-104 at my event, I'm going to weigh it to be sure it's not 55lbs+ prior to flight, unless you already have a LTMA Permit to Fly. If it weighs 55.1lbs and you don't have an LTMA Permit to Fly on file, take it home!
David S
04-18-2013, 08:55 AM
#56
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: Rcmodlercalifornia
With all respect, I think you miss the main issue here. As I posted on the F14 crash thread, this for me is the straw that has broken the Camels back. The fact of the matter is that this small segment of the hobby is clearly not safe at all. I will be sending the F14 crash link along with links to lots of other turbine crashes to the FAA and request that they address this danger in their upcoming rule making process.
When I look at YouTube, I see many dangerous turbine crashes with all brands including BVM and skymaster flown by competent pilots. These were turbine waiver pilots, flying under guidelines from AMA, and they still crashed due to electronic failure, structural failure, or ''unknown''. This is just not safe in every way shape or form, and this small segment puts our whole hobby at risk - including electrics.
AMA has no way to address these safety issues, as is evidenced by this and many other crashes. In the FEJ F14 crash case it was a professional build flown by a competent turbine waiver pilot.
I have an 8 year old little boy, and at our field one of these flying bombs crashed due to unknown issues. It came apart in flight and crashed away from the spectator area by luck...had it gone the other way it could have killed my little boy.
I urge you all to look inside yourselves and do the right thing. No matter how good a pilot you are, or how good a brand you buy, you can still crash and end up killing spectators...including kids, like my little boy. For the sake of 95%+ of the people and kids in this hobby, ground your turbine jets and fly something safer....it is just a matter of time till your activities kill innocent people and ruin this hobby for us all.
I am sorry if I have offended but this is my very strong opinion based on safety that I bet is shared by the majority of aero molders. In the spirit of fairness, I will also be copying my FAA complaint to the AMA.
With all respect, I think you miss the main issue here. As I posted on the F14 crash thread, this for me is the straw that has broken the Camels back. The fact of the matter is that this small segment of the hobby is clearly not safe at all. I will be sending the F14 crash link along with links to lots of other turbine crashes to the FAA and request that they address this danger in their upcoming rule making process.
When I look at YouTube, I see many dangerous turbine crashes with all brands including BVM and skymaster flown by competent pilots. These were turbine waiver pilots, flying under guidelines from AMA, and they still crashed due to electronic failure, structural failure, or ''unknown''. This is just not safe in every way shape or form, and this small segment puts our whole hobby at risk - including electrics.
AMA has no way to address these safety issues, as is evidenced by this and many other crashes. In the FEJ F14 crash case it was a professional build flown by a competent turbine waiver pilot.
I have an 8 year old little boy, and at our field one of these flying bombs crashed due to unknown issues. It came apart in flight and crashed away from the spectator area by luck...had it gone the other way it could have killed my little boy.
I urge you all to look inside yourselves and do the right thing. No matter how good a pilot you are, or how good a brand you buy, you can still crash and end up killing spectators...including kids, like my little boy. For the sake of 95%+ of the people and kids in this hobby, ground your turbine jets and fly something safer....it is just a matter of time till your activities kill innocent people and ruin this hobby for us all.
I am sorry if I have offended but this is my very strong opinion based on safety that I bet is shared by the majority of aero molders. In the spirit of fairness, I will also be copying my FAA complaint to the AMA.
04-18-2013, 09:00 AM
#57
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
Here is the link to the large airplane Program:
http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/520-a.pdf
I hope everyone takes the time to read and understand it.
EVERY AMA member has the right to ask a modeler to show proof of meeting these requirements.
http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/520-a.pdf
I hope everyone takes the time to read and understand it.
EVERY AMA member has the right to ask a modeler to show proof of meeting these requirements.
04-18-2013, 09:11 AM
#58
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ft. Collins , CO
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: Rcmodlercalifornia
With all respect, I think you miss the main issue here. As I posted on the F14 crash thread, this for me is the straw that has broken the Camels back. The fact of the matter is that this small segment of the hobby is clearly not safe at all. I will be sending the F14 crash link along with links to lots of other turbine crashes to the FAA and request that they address this danger in their upcoming rule making process.
When I look at YouTube, I see many dangerous turbine crashes with all brands including BVM and skymaster flown by competent pilots. These were turbine waiver pilots, flying under guidelines from AMA, and they still crashed due to electronic failure, structural failure, or ''unknown''. This is just not safe in every way shape or form, and this small segment puts our whole hobby at risk - including electrics.
AMA has no way to address these safety issues, as is evidenced by this and many other crashes. In the FEJ F14 crash case it was a professional build flown by a competent turbine waiver pilot.
I have an 8 year old little boy, and at our field one of these flying bombs crashed due to unknown issues. It came apart in flight and crashed away from the spectator area by luck...had it gone the other way it could have killed my little boy.
I urge you all to look inside yourselves and do the right thing. No matter how good a pilot you are, or how good a brand you buy, you can still crash and end up killing spectators...including kids, like my little boy. For the sake of 95%+ of the people and kids in this hobby, ground your turbine jets and fly something safer....it is just a matter of time till your activities kill innocent people and ruin this hobby for us all.
I am sorry if I have offended but this is my very strong opinion based on safety that I bet is shared by the majority of aero molders. In the spirit of fairness, I will also be copying my FAA complaint to the AMA.
With all respect, I think you miss the main issue here. As I posted on the F14 crash thread, this for me is the straw that has broken the Camels back. The fact of the matter is that this small segment of the hobby is clearly not safe at all. I will be sending the F14 crash link along with links to lots of other turbine crashes to the FAA and request that they address this danger in their upcoming rule making process.
When I look at YouTube, I see many dangerous turbine crashes with all brands including BVM and skymaster flown by competent pilots. These were turbine waiver pilots, flying under guidelines from AMA, and they still crashed due to electronic failure, structural failure, or ''unknown''. This is just not safe in every way shape or form, and this small segment puts our whole hobby at risk - including electrics.
AMA has no way to address these safety issues, as is evidenced by this and many other crashes. In the FEJ F14 crash case it was a professional build flown by a competent turbine waiver pilot.
I have an 8 year old little boy, and at our field one of these flying bombs crashed due to unknown issues. It came apart in flight and crashed away from the spectator area by luck...had it gone the other way it could have killed my little boy.
I urge you all to look inside yourselves and do the right thing. No matter how good a pilot you are, or how good a brand you buy, you can still crash and end up killing spectators...including kids, like my little boy. For the sake of 95%+ of the people and kids in this hobby, ground your turbine jets and fly something safer....it is just a matter of time till your activities kill innocent people and ruin this hobby for us all.
I am sorry if I have offended but this is my very strong opinion based on safety that I bet is shared by the majority of aero molders. In the spirit of fairness, I will also be copying my FAA complaint to the AMA.
I would hope (pray) that you not get too far into reporting incidents to the FAA as there is a chance that really draconian rules could be imposed. Do you think that they are not watching what we do? We do need to do a better job at self-policing all the way around. We have a good start on this with recent developments.
04-18-2013, 09:25 AM
#59
My Feedback: (11)
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
All brands have had jets flutter, even BVM. Where is your data to support that there is an issue with FEJ jets being more prone to flutter or being unsafe? Please share because you want to be anyone who repesents the AMA you need to be objective.
Please share your frequency analysis of crashes that show FEJ crashing much more than other brands due to defects, and also state your sources.
I have a FEJ and want to objectivly deteremine if I want to keep flying it.
Please share your frequency analysis of crashes that show FEJ crashing much more than other brands due to defects, and also state your sources.
I have a FEJ and want to objectivly deteremine if I want to keep flying it.
04-18-2013, 09:32 AM
#60
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (49)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: SANTA ANA, CA
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: essyou35
All brands have had jets flutter, even BVM. Where is your data to support that there is an issue with FEJ jets being more prone to flutter or being unsafe? Please share because you want to be anyone who repesents the AMA you need to be objective.
Please share your frequency analysis of crashes that show FEJ crashing much more than other brands due to defects, and also state your sources.
I have a FEJ and want to objectivly deteremine if I want to keep flying it.
All brands have had jets flutter, even BVM. Where is your data to support that there is an issue with FEJ jets being more prone to flutter or being unsafe? Please share because you want to be anyone who repesents the AMA you need to be objective.
Please share your frequency analysis of crashes that show FEJ crashing much more than other brands due to defects, and also state your sources.
I have a FEJ and want to objectivly deteremine if I want to keep flying it.
If you can't read or are not willing to read the threads already posted on RCU, to answer your questions, I can't help you.
David S
04-18-2013, 09:46 AM
#61
My Feedback: (24)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Daytona Beach
Posts: 6,102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: essyou35
All brands have had jets flutter, even BVM. Where is your data to support that there is an issue with FEJ jets being more prone to flutter or being unsafe? Please share because you want to be anyone who repesents the AMA you need to be objective.
Please share your frequency analysis of crashes that show FEJ crashing much more than other brands due to defects, and also state your sources.
I have a FEJ and want to objectivly deteremine if I want to keep flying it.
All brands have had jets flutter, even BVM. Where is your data to support that there is an issue with FEJ jets being more prone to flutter or being unsafe? Please share because you want to be anyone who repesents the AMA you need to be objective.
Please share your frequency analysis of crashes that show FEJ crashing much more than other brands due to defects, and also state your sources.
I have a FEJ and want to objectivly deteremine if I want to keep flying it.
Considering there are reports of some improvement over the years, lets keep the airframe offers within the last 12 months production. Contact me here or in private with what you have....
04-18-2013, 09:58 AM
#63
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
"............ I crashed three teaching myself to fly at 12 years old. "
[/quote]
I did exactly that myself Todd.
Big D, bravo and thank you!
Barry
[/quote]
I did exactly that myself Todd.
Big D, bravo and thank you!
Barry
04-18-2013, 10:02 AM
#64
My Feedback: (102)
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
First I saw my friend's F-18 destroyed into which he had invested much time and money, and now I see this video which clearly shows a structural defect leading to the loss of thousands of dollars, being flown conservatively and competently by a good pilot, and built by a well known builder who has the knowledge to make these things work. If we can see this type of thing and still have confidence in a product, we are either blind or possess some ulterior motive. I know as much as I would like to have one of the A-7's, I will not spend my hard earned money in that capacity until they have proven they will stand behind their sales. Both this plane and the F18 need to be retooled, retested and replaced before any waivered pilot purchases one, or one is allowed to fly in public display at a sanctioned fly in. IMO, there is a potential for catastrophic failure with potential for injury and damges, and the risk is just too great.
04-18-2013, 10:05 AM
#65
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (49)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: SANTA ANA, CA
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: lov2flyrc
I can make this real simple.... Who has an FEJ airframe they want to sell at a reasonable price? I will buy the airframe, have it shipped here, and dissect the skins so everyone can see the structure. Should clear things up real fast....
Considering there are reports of some improvement over the years, lets keep the airframe offers within the last 12 months production. Contact me here or in private with what you have....
ORIGINAL: essyou35
All brands have had jets flutter, even BVM. Where is your data to support that there is an issue with FEJ jets being more prone to flutter or being unsafe? Please share because you want to be anyone who repesents the AMA you need to be objective.
Please share your frequency analysis of crashes that show FEJ crashing much more than other brands due to defects, and also state your sources.
I have a FEJ and want to objectivly deteremine if I want to keep flying it.
All brands have had jets flutter, even BVM. Where is your data to support that there is an issue with FEJ jets being more prone to flutter or being unsafe? Please share because you want to be anyone who repesents the AMA you need to be objective.
Please share your frequency analysis of crashes that show FEJ crashing much more than other brands due to defects, and also state your sources.
I have a FEJ and want to objectivly deteremine if I want to keep flying it.
Considering there are reports of some improvement over the years, lets keep the airframe offers within the last 12 months production. Contact me here or in private with what you have....
Outstanding offer! Please require the jet to be of HC construction as well. This, I think, is where the real issues are.
David S
04-18-2013, 10:43 AM
#67
My Feedback: (24)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Daytona Beach
Posts: 6,102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: David Searles
Todd,
Outstanding offer! Please require the jet to be of HC construction as well. This, I think, is where the real issues are.
David S
Todd,
Outstanding offer! Please require the jet to be of HC construction as well. This, I think, is where the real issues are.
David S
Raf has posted some images this week that are typical of what I have seen numerous times on FEJ airframes. Now, I will state that I have seen similar issues on Skymaster and JetLegend airframes in the (distant) past however, both companies acknowledged and resolved the production defects when made aware of them. Lack of structure and glue is just as dangerous as the HC issues!
Since there is already clear proof available that FEJ's standard fabrication is deficient, will follow the suggestion that the Jet we dissect be of HC construction.
04-18-2013, 10:44 AM
#68
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: DocYates
First I saw my friend's F-18 destroyed into which he had invested much time and money, and now I see this video which clearly shows a structural defect leading to the loss of thousands of dollars, being flown conservatively and competently by a good pilot, and built by a well known builder who has the knowledge to make these things work. If we can see this type of thing and still have confidence in a product, we are either blind or possess some ulterior motive. I know as much as I would like to have one of the A-7's, I will not spend my hard earned money in that capacity until they have proven they will stand behind their sales. Both this plane and the F18 need to be retooled, retested and replaced before any waivered pilot purchases one, or one is allowed to fly in public display at a sanctioned fly in. IMO, there is a potential for catastrophic failure with potential for injury and damges, and the risk is just too great.
First I saw my friend's F-18 destroyed into which he had invested much time and money, and now I see this video which clearly shows a structural defect leading to the loss of thousands of dollars, being flown conservatively and competently by a good pilot, and built by a well known builder who has the knowledge to make these things work. If we can see this type of thing and still have confidence in a product, we are either blind or possess some ulterior motive. I know as much as I would like to have one of the A-7's, I will not spend my hard earned money in that capacity until they have proven they will stand behind their sales. Both this plane and the F18 need to be retooled, retested and replaced before any waivered pilot purchases one, or one is allowed to fly in public display at a sanctioned fly in. IMO, there is a potential for catastrophic failure with potential for injury and damges, and the risk is just too great.
not exactly morally ethical, but how often do the chinese companies let morals get in the way.
04-18-2013, 11:31 AM
#70
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: Rcmodlercalifornia
With all respect, I think you miss the main issue here. As I posted on the F14 crash thread, thisfor me is the straw that has broken the Camels back. The fact of the matter is that this small segment of the hobby is clearly not safe at all. I will be sending the F14 crash link along with links to lots of other turbine crashes to the FAA and request that they address this danger in their upcoming rule making process.
When I look at YouTube, I see many dangerous turbine crashes with all brands including BVM and skymaster flown by competent pilots. These were turbine waiver pilots, flying under guidelines from AMA, and they still crashed due to electronic failure, structural failure, or "unknown". This is just not safe in every way shape or form, and this small segment puts our whole hobby at risk - including electrics.
AMA has no way to address these safety issues, as is evidenced by this and many other crashes. In the FEJ F14 crash case it was a professional build flown by a competent turbine waiver pilot.
I have an 8 year old little boy, and at our field one of these flying bombs crashed due to unknown issues. It came apart in flight and crashed away from the spectator area by luck...had it gone the other way it could have killed my little boy.
I urge you all to look inside yourselves and do the right thing. No matter how good a pilot you are, or how good a brand you buy, you can still crash and end up killing spectators...including kids, like my little boy. For the sake of 95%+ of the people and kids in this hobby, ground your turbine jets and fly something safer....it is just a matter of time till your activities kill innocent people and ruin this hobby for us all.
I am sorry if I have offended but this is my very strong opinion based on safety that I bet is shared by the majority of aero molders. In the spirit of fairness, I will also be copying my FAA complaint to the AMA.
With all respect, I think you miss the main issue here. As I posted on the F14 crash thread, thisfor me is the straw that has broken the Camels back. The fact of the matter is that this small segment of the hobby is clearly not safe at all. I will be sending the F14 crash link along with links to lots of other turbine crashes to the FAA and request that they address this danger in their upcoming rule making process.
When I look at YouTube, I see many dangerous turbine crashes with all brands including BVM and skymaster flown by competent pilots. These were turbine waiver pilots, flying under guidelines from AMA, and they still crashed due to electronic failure, structural failure, or "unknown". This is just not safe in every way shape or form, and this small segment puts our whole hobby at risk - including electrics.
AMA has no way to address these safety issues, as is evidenced by this and many other crashes. In the FEJ F14 crash case it was a professional build flown by a competent turbine waiver pilot.
I have an 8 year old little boy, and at our field one of these flying bombs crashed due to unknown issues. It came apart in flight and crashed away from the spectator area by luck...had it gone the other way it could have killed my little boy.
I urge you all to look inside yourselves and do the right thing. No matter how good a pilot you are, or how good a brand you buy, you can still crash and end up killing spectators...including kids, like my little boy. For the sake of 95%+ of the people and kids in this hobby, ground your turbine jets and fly something safer....it is just a matter of time till your activities kill innocent people and ruin this hobby for us all.
I am sorry if I have offended but this is my very strong opinion based on safety that I bet is shared by the majority of aero molders. In the spirit of fairness, I will also be copying my FAA complaint to the AMA.
What do you think the FAA should do to improve model plane safety? You do know once you start down this road it wont be just.jets effected
but will likley open up av big can of worms for the entire hobby.
04-18-2013, 11:36 AM
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Spring Hill,
FL
Posts: 4,734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
I read every post and didn't see anyone answer a good question that was asked. If the AMA is going to take it upon themselves to "certify" anything then what is their responsibility of that thing fails? I know there can be circumstances where the item in question has been certified but fails due to some damage done to it such as the owner knocking the stab hard into the wall, damaging it, not fixing it and flying it anyway. That's NOT the sort of thing I'm asking about.
What I'm asking is what if the plane is certified, does not take any damage, fails in flight because it has a design defect that the AMA certified and then the plane crashes causing damage to person or property? I think the AMA would be opening themselves up to a great deal of liability. Admittedly, I have no idea how the law works with things like this but it seems to me if you say something is ok when it isn't then you are not competent to make that decision in the first place and open to some pretty serious lawsuits.
At the very least it seems the AMA would need to hire some very qualified engineers to do these certifications.
What I'm asking is what if the plane is certified, does not take any damage, fails in flight because it has a design defect that the AMA certified and then the plane crashes causing damage to person or property? I think the AMA would be opening themselves up to a great deal of liability. Admittedly, I have no idea how the law works with things like this but it seems to me if you say something is ok when it isn't then you are not competent to make that decision in the first place and open to some pretty serious lawsuits.
At the very least it seems the AMA would need to hire some very qualified engineers to do these certifications.
04-18-2013, 11:36 AM
#72
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
Honeycomb is great stuff as long as the bond between the honeycomb and skins is perfect. Aircraft mfgs that have used the stuff in the past went to great lenghts the check the bonding. If it's not 100% on the nuts the whole structure turns to jello. Wouln't trust a Chinese ARF mfg on this one.
rrragman
rrragman
04-18-2013, 11:46 AM
#73
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (49)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: SANTA ANA, CA
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: DocYates
First I saw my friend's F-18 destroyed into which he had invested much time and money, and now I see this video which clearly shows a structural defect leading to the loss of thousands of dollars, being flown conservatively and competently by a good pilot, and built by a well known builder who has the knowledge to make these things work. If we can see this type of thing and still have confidence in a product, we are either blind or possess some ulterior motive. I know as much as I would like to have one of the A-7's, I will not spend my hard earned money in that capacity until they have proven they will stand behind their sales. Both this plane and the F18 need to be retooled, retested and replaced before any waivered pilot purchases one, or one is allowed to fly in public display at a sanctioned fly in. IMO, there is a potential for catastrophic failure with potential for injury and damges, and the risk is just too great.
First I saw my friend's F-18 destroyed into which he had invested much time and money, and now I see this video which clearly shows a structural defect leading to the loss of thousands of dollars, being flown conservatively and competently by a good pilot, and built by a well known builder who has the knowledge to make these things work. If we can see this type of thing and still have confidence in a product, we are either blind or possess some ulterior motive. I know as much as I would like to have one of the A-7's, I will not spend my hard earned money in that capacity until they have proven they will stand behind their sales. Both this plane and the F18 need to be retooled, retested and replaced before any waivered pilot purchases one, or one is allowed to fly in public display at a sanctioned fly in. IMO, there is a potential for catastrophic failure with potential for injury and damges, and the risk is just too great.
I flew my first generation FG layup FEJ F-18F for three years and at least 150 flights and loved it! A really great jet, I have defended it more than once on these threads from my direct experience. The moment they changed this jet to HC construction, problems started! Problems that I never experienced with my earlier model. I personally witnessed one of them crash from this flap issue as you have. FEJ IMO is clearly on the Bleeding Edge of aircraft construction, but it's their customer's doing the bleeding!
David S
04-18-2013, 12:07 PM
#75
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: Bird of Paradise
I would hope (pray) that you not get too far into reporting incidents to the FAA as there is a chance that really draconian rules could be imposed. Do you think that they are not watching what we do? We do need to do a better job at self-policing all the way around. We have a good start on this with recent developments.
ORIGINAL: Rcmodlercalifornia
With all respect, I think you miss the main issue here. As I posted on the F14 crash thread, this for me is the straw that has broken the Camels back. The fact of the matter is that this small segment of the hobby is clearly not safe at all. I will be sending the F14 crash link along with links to lots of other turbine crashes to the FAA and request that they address this danger in their upcoming rule making process.
When I look at YouTube, I see many dangerous turbine crashes with all brands including BVM and skymaster flown by competent pilots. These were turbine waiver pilots, flying under guidelines from AMA, and they still crashed due to electronic failure, structural failure, or ''unknown''. This is just not safe in every way shape or form, and this small segment puts our whole hobby at risk - including electrics.
AMA has no way to address these safety issues, as is evidenced by this and many other crashes. In the FEJ F14 crash case it was a professional build flown by a competent turbine waiver pilot.
I have an 8 year old little boy, and at our field one of these flying bombs crashed due to unknown issues. It came apart in flight and crashed away from the spectator area by luck...had it gone the other way it could have killed my little boy.
I urge you all to look inside yourselves and do the right thing. No matter how good a pilot you are, or how good a brand you buy, you can still crash and end up killing spectators...including kids, like my little boy. For the sake of 95%+ of the people and kids in this hobby, ground your turbine jets and fly something safer....it is just a matter of time till your activities kill innocent people and ruin this hobby for us all.
I am sorry if I have offended but this is my very strong opinion based on safety that I bet is shared by the majority of aero molders. In the spirit of fairness, I will also be copying my FAA complaint to the AMA.
With all respect, I think you miss the main issue here. As I posted on the F14 crash thread, this for me is the straw that has broken the Camels back. The fact of the matter is that this small segment of the hobby is clearly not safe at all. I will be sending the F14 crash link along with links to lots of other turbine crashes to the FAA and request that they address this danger in their upcoming rule making process.
When I look at YouTube, I see many dangerous turbine crashes with all brands including BVM and skymaster flown by competent pilots. These were turbine waiver pilots, flying under guidelines from AMA, and they still crashed due to electronic failure, structural failure, or ''unknown''. This is just not safe in every way shape or form, and this small segment puts our whole hobby at risk - including electrics.
AMA has no way to address these safety issues, as is evidenced by this and many other crashes. In the FEJ F14 crash case it was a professional build flown by a competent turbine waiver pilot.
I have an 8 year old little boy, and at our field one of these flying bombs crashed due to unknown issues. It came apart in flight and crashed away from the spectator area by luck...had it gone the other way it could have killed my little boy.
I urge you all to look inside yourselves and do the right thing. No matter how good a pilot you are, or how good a brand you buy, you can still crash and end up killing spectators...including kids, like my little boy. For the sake of 95%+ of the people and kids in this hobby, ground your turbine jets and fly something safer....it is just a matter of time till your activities kill innocent people and ruin this hobby for us all.
I am sorry if I have offended but this is my very strong opinion based on safety that I bet is shared by the majority of aero molders. In the spirit of fairness, I will also be copying my FAA complaint to the AMA.
I would hope (pray) that you not get too far into reporting incidents to the FAA as there is a chance that really draconian rules could be imposed. Do you think that they are not watching what we do? We do need to do a better job at self-policing all the way around. We have a good start on this with recent developments.
YOU GUYS!
Don't feed the trolls! This guy is a jerk known to many of you (except most of you think he's some upstanding, high-profile modeler/rep type). He's just stirring the pot and getting a laugh out of this. IGNORE HIM!