FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
04-19-2013, 09:30 AM
#101
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RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: ravill
Umm, I'm not listing ANYTHING in the classified sections. [8D]
ORIGINAL: DiscoWings
Ravil,
Are you still selling the jet on the classifieds at the same? Curious why anyone would want to buy it after reading your post.
Ravil,
Are you still selling the jet on the classifieds at the same? Curious why anyone would want to buy it after reading your post.
Sorry sorry There is a chap in argentina and I confused your plane with his.
04-19-2013, 09:31 AM
#102
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RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: jetpilot
Ashan,
this is what hes talking about
Scott
ORIGINAL: lov2flyrc
I can make this real simple.... Who has an FEJ airframe they want to sell at a reasonable price? I will buy the airframe, have it shipped here, and dissect the skins so everyone can see the structure. Should clear things up real fast....
Considering there are reports of some improvement over the years, lets keep the airframe offers within the last 12 months production. Contact me here or in private with what you have....
ORIGINAL: essyou35
All brands have had jets flutter, even BVM. Where is your data to support that there is an issue with FEJ jets being more prone to flutter or being unsafe? Please share because you want to be anyone who repesents the AMA you need to be objective.
Please share your frequency analysis of crashes that show FEJ crashing much more than other brands due to defects, and also state your sources.
I have a FEJ and want to objectivly deteremine if I want to keep flying it.
All brands have had jets flutter, even BVM. Where is your data to support that there is an issue with FEJ jets being more prone to flutter or being unsafe? Please share because you want to be anyone who repesents the AMA you need to be objective.
Please share your frequency analysis of crashes that show FEJ crashing much more than other brands due to defects, and also state your sources.
I have a FEJ and want to objectivly deteremine if I want to keep flying it.
Considering there are reports of some improvement over the years, lets keep the airframe offers within the last 12 months production. Contact me here or in private with what you have....
Ashan,
this is what hes talking about
Scott
eesyou54 != Ahsan
04-19-2013, 09:36 AM
#103
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: DiscoWings
Sorry sorry There is a chap in argentina and I confused your plane with his.
ORIGINAL: ravill
Umm, I'm not listing ANYTHING in the classified sections. [8D]
ORIGINAL: DiscoWings
Ravil,
Are you still selling the jet on the classifieds at the same? Curious why anyone would want to buy it after reading your post.
Ravil,
Are you still selling the jet on the classifieds at the same? Curious why anyone would want to buy it after reading your post.
Sorry sorry There is a chap in argentina and I confused your plane with his.
04-19-2013, 12:05 PM
#106
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RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
Everyone should just get an ULTRAFLASH !!!!! Nobody gonna chase you around with a scale and it's not going to fall apart in the air..
"one of the strongest jets on the mkt". Period!!
"one of the strongest jets on the mkt". Period!!
04-19-2013, 12:48 PM
#108
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RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
Have to disagree here. It is very possible to produce high quality honeycomb sandwich parts at or near room temperature (100F), in epoxy molds. I do it all the time. Peel strength of the inner liner is certainly critical, and there are several methods for achieving a consistent bond without requiring an autoclave, high-temp molds, post curing etc.
In general, I'm still baffled by the reliance on structural 'strength' and high-torque servos for flutter prevention. Flutter is an aero problem, and can be largely prevented through simple measures. On a full flying surface one method would be the correct relationship between pivot, CG and aerodynamic center. No amount of structural beef will prevent flutter.
Not that I'm defending FEJ in any way, and I applaud Dave S. for standing up for his beliefs.
CRG
In general, I'm still baffled by the reliance on structural 'strength' and high-torque servos for flutter prevention. Flutter is an aero problem, and can be largely prevented through simple measures. On a full flying surface one method would be the correct relationship between pivot, CG and aerodynamic center. No amount of structural beef will prevent flutter.
Not that I'm defending FEJ in any way, and I applaud Dave S. for standing up for his beliefs.
CRG
ORIGINAL: Chris Nicastro
There should be a guidebook for model composite structures that a CD could refer to who is not versed in composites. If what he see's doesn't look like whats pre approved then the aircraft in question should be denied flight pending further inspection and approval.
I bring this up because there are too many opinions on how composites work when in reality there are proven methods that should be the standard. With these standards as the rule then the manufacturers would have something to refer to when considering making a plane. Any CD could pick up this book and compare whats on the model to the description and photos in the book.
In fact any factory making open mold wet layup honeycomb, not oven curing the parts, no autoclave, is already doing it wrong. The peel strength is already compromised. These parts are supposed to be oven cured at fairly high temps as a rule and the molds have to be capable of high temps. There is a lot to composites techniques, layup schedules, tooling, post curing, etc, etc.
Going back to good old basics with proven materials and proven methods is the way unless your investing a lot of time and money into real aerospace composites, equipment and practices.
There should be a guidebook for model composite structures that a CD could refer to who is not versed in composites. If what he see's doesn't look like whats pre approved then the aircraft in question should be denied flight pending further inspection and approval.
I bring this up because there are too many opinions on how composites work when in reality there are proven methods that should be the standard. With these standards as the rule then the manufacturers would have something to refer to when considering making a plane. Any CD could pick up this book and compare whats on the model to the description and photos in the book.
In fact any factory making open mold wet layup honeycomb, not oven curing the parts, no autoclave, is already doing it wrong. The peel strength is already compromised. These parts are supposed to be oven cured at fairly high temps as a rule and the molds have to be capable of high temps. There is a lot to composites techniques, layup schedules, tooling, post curing, etc, etc.
Going back to good old basics with proven materials and proven methods is the way unless your investing a lot of time and money into real aerospace composites, equipment and practices.
04-19-2013, 12:55 PM
#109
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
In a word...yep!
Beave
Beave
ORIGINAL: AFTERBURNER1
Everyone should just get an ULTRAFLASH !!!!! Nobody gonna chase you around with a scale and it's not going to fall apart in the air..
''one of the strongest jets on the mkt''. Period!!
Everyone should just get an ULTRAFLASH !!!!! Nobody gonna chase you around with a scale and it's not going to fall apart in the air..
''one of the strongest jets on the mkt''. Period!!
04-19-2013, 01:01 PM
#110
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RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
Here you go boyz. Something better to talk about than honeycomb fused together with chewed up rice cake and Elmer's glue!!
[
]
[
]
04-19-2013, 05:14 PM
#114
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: CRG
Have to disagree here. It is very possible to produce high quality honeycomb sandwich parts at or near room temperature (100F), in epoxy molds. I do it all the time. Peel strength of the inner liner is certainly critical, and there are several methods for achieving a consistent bond without requiring an autoclave, high-temp molds, post curing etc.
In general, I'm still baffled by the reliance on structural 'strength' and high-torque servos for flutter prevention. Flutter is an aero problem, and can be largely prevented through simple measures. On a full flying surface one method would be the correct relationship between pivot, CG and aerodynamic center. No amount of structural beef will prevent flutter.
Not that I'm defending FEJ in any way, and I applaud Dave S. for standing up for his beliefs.
CRG
Have to disagree here. It is very possible to produce high quality honeycomb sandwich parts at or near room temperature (100F), in epoxy molds. I do it all the time. Peel strength of the inner liner is certainly critical, and there are several methods for achieving a consistent bond without requiring an autoclave, high-temp molds, post curing etc.
In general, I'm still baffled by the reliance on structural 'strength' and high-torque servos for flutter prevention. Flutter is an aero problem, and can be largely prevented through simple measures. On a full flying surface one method would be the correct relationship between pivot, CG and aerodynamic center. No amount of structural beef will prevent flutter.
Not that I'm defending FEJ in any way, and I applaud Dave S. for standing up for his beliefs.
CRG
04-19-2013, 05:39 PM
#115
RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
[quote]ORIGINAL: Jeff Foley
ORIGINAL: CRG
No amount of structural beef will prevent flutter.
CRG
No amount of structural beef will prevent flutter.
CRG
04-20-2013, 05:09 AM
#117
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RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: lov2flyrc
Ok, Raf and I have worked out a deal on the F-14 HC version. Just trying to figure out how to ship it at the moment.
I think this process will be beneficial for all FEJ owners, but even more beneficial for FEJ. I am happy to provide them with a list and images of all the deficiencies noted, I will also provide them with suggested methods of correction IF they are willing to listen and incorporate. They haven't been willing in the past... I wont waste my time if they are not willing to acknowledge their faults and take action.
The purpose of this process, for me, is to show what things are being done wrong which can cause failure of an airframe. The details are being sought so current FEJ owners understand the extent of the deficiencies hidden by skin.
I want to be clear.... I have nothing against FEJ personally; I consider many of the FEJ representatives in the USA as good friends. Lowell, James, Eddie, Nir.... They are all wonderful, passionate modelers that would bend over backwards to help any one of you regardless of brand!
I have expressed my concerns to FEJ in the past regarding their construction materials, methods and quality. By doing so, I believe some affiliated with the company felt as if I was making unfounded attacks. For me, there were two major concerns... First and foremost; Safety! I have been adamant that these airframes are dangerous and sooner or later, we will have a disaster on our hands. In-Flight structure failure usually results in some high energy impact. Second; consumers are sinking hard earned dollars into aircraft that have a very low success rate of lasting more than a year or two and losses extend beyond just airframe due to the high energy impacts.
The more manufacturers on the market the better as far as i'm concerned. More selections, better pricing and more hobbyist drawn to this segment. Everything I would want as a business owner which caters to the Jet market. However, Airframes manufactured with such deficiencies are extremely dangerous to the hobby as a whole. If one of these airframes comes apart and flies into a "bus full of nuns" (sorry, vintage RCU guys will get this one) it could end the hobby as we know it.... For you, a hobby goes away.... For me, its a livelihood! We need to be pro-active in minimizing risk across the board; we are being watched closely, now more than ever! We all need to join forces in protecting the hobby before its too late! Glade to see this movement started, sad to see FEJ still just does not get it [
]
Todd
Ok, Raf and I have worked out a deal on the F-14 HC version. Just trying to figure out how to ship it at the moment.
I think this process will be beneficial for all FEJ owners, but even more beneficial for FEJ. I am happy to provide them with a list and images of all the deficiencies noted, I will also provide them with suggested methods of correction IF they are willing to listen and incorporate. They haven't been willing in the past... I wont waste my time if they are not willing to acknowledge their faults and take action.
The purpose of this process, for me, is to show what things are being done wrong which can cause failure of an airframe. The details are being sought so current FEJ owners understand the extent of the deficiencies hidden by skin.
I want to be clear.... I have nothing against FEJ personally; I consider many of the FEJ representatives in the USA as good friends. Lowell, James, Eddie, Nir.... They are all wonderful, passionate modelers that would bend over backwards to help any one of you regardless of brand!
I have expressed my concerns to FEJ in the past regarding their construction materials, methods and quality. By doing so, I believe some affiliated with the company felt as if I was making unfounded attacks. For me, there were two major concerns... First and foremost; Safety! I have been adamant that these airframes are dangerous and sooner or later, we will have a disaster on our hands. In-Flight structure failure usually results in some high energy impact. Second; consumers are sinking hard earned dollars into aircraft that have a very low success rate of lasting more than a year or two and losses extend beyond just airframe due to the high energy impacts.
The more manufacturers on the market the better as far as i'm concerned. More selections, better pricing and more hobbyist drawn to this segment. Everything I would want as a business owner which caters to the Jet market. However, Airframes manufactured with such deficiencies are extremely dangerous to the hobby as a whole. If one of these airframes comes apart and flies into a "bus full of nuns" (sorry, vintage RCU guys will get this one) it could end the hobby as we know it.... For you, a hobby goes away.... For me, its a livelihood! We need to be pro-active in minimizing risk across the board; we are being watched closely, now more than ever! We all need to join forces in protecting the hobby before its too late! Glade to see this movement started, sad to see FEJ still just does not get it [
]Todd
If you are willing to do all this, then I suggest you profit from your own work and talent, and start your own r/c jet company.
After what I've seen, I highly doubt FEJ will be able to get it right, or be willing to,even with step-by-step instructions.
04-22-2013, 07:49 AM
#118
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RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: BobbyMcGee
While all this is great on your part, FEJ should be doing this themsleves. Even moreso, they should have done this long ago. For me, this shows their incompetence in the field.
If you are willing to do all this, then I suggest you profit from your own work and talent, and start your own r/c jet company.
After what I've seen, I highly doubt FEJ will be able to get it right, or be willing to, even with step-by-step instructions.
ORIGINAL: lov2flyrc
Ok, Raf and I have worked out a deal on the F-14 HC version. Just trying to figure out how to ship it at the moment.
I think this process will be beneficial for all FEJ owners, but even more beneficial for FEJ. I am happy to provide them with a list and images of all the deficiencies noted, I will also provide them with suggested methods of correction IF they are willing to listen and incorporate. They haven't been willing in the past... I wont waste my time if they are not willing to acknowledge their faults and take action.
The purpose of this process, for me, is to show what things are being done wrong which can cause failure of an airframe. The details are being sought so current FEJ owners understand the extent of the deficiencies hidden by skin.
I want to be clear.... I have nothing against FEJ personally; I consider many of the FEJ representatives in the USA as good friends. Lowell, James, Eddie, Nir.... They are all wonderful, passionate modelers that would bend over backwards to help any one of you regardless of brand!
I have expressed my concerns to FEJ in the past regarding their construction materials, methods and quality. By doing so, I believe some affiliated with the company felt as if I was making unfounded attacks. For me, there were two major concerns... First and foremost; Safety! I have been adamant that these airframes are dangerous and sooner or later, we will have a disaster on our hands. In-Flight structure failure usually results in some high energy impact. Second; consumers are sinking hard earned dollars into aircraft that have a very low success rate of lasting more than a year or two and losses extend beyond just airframe due to the high energy impacts.
The more manufacturers on the market the better as far as i'm concerned. More selections, better pricing and more hobbyist drawn to this segment. Everything I would want as a business owner which caters to the Jet market. However, Airframes manufactured with such deficiencies are extremely dangerous to the hobby as a whole. If one of these airframes comes apart and flies into a ''bus full of nuns'' (sorry, vintage RCU guys will get this one) it could end the hobby as we know it.... For you, a hobby goes away.... For me, its a livelihood! We need to be pro-active in minimizing risk across the board; we are being watched closely, now more than ever! We all need to join forces in protecting the hobby before its too late! Glade to see this movement started, sad to see FEJ still just does not get it []
Todd
Ok, Raf and I have worked out a deal on the F-14 HC version. Just trying to figure out how to ship it at the moment.
I think this process will be beneficial for all FEJ owners, but even more beneficial for FEJ. I am happy to provide them with a list and images of all the deficiencies noted, I will also provide them with suggested methods of correction IF they are willing to listen and incorporate. They haven't been willing in the past... I wont waste my time if they are not willing to acknowledge their faults and take action.
The purpose of this process, for me, is to show what things are being done wrong which can cause failure of an airframe. The details are being sought so current FEJ owners understand the extent of the deficiencies hidden by skin.
I want to be clear.... I have nothing against FEJ personally; I consider many of the FEJ representatives in the USA as good friends. Lowell, James, Eddie, Nir.... They are all wonderful, passionate modelers that would bend over backwards to help any one of you regardless of brand!
I have expressed my concerns to FEJ in the past regarding their construction materials, methods and quality. By doing so, I believe some affiliated with the company felt as if I was making unfounded attacks. For me, there were two major concerns... First and foremost; Safety! I have been adamant that these airframes are dangerous and sooner or later, we will have a disaster on our hands. In-Flight structure failure usually results in some high energy impact. Second; consumers are sinking hard earned dollars into aircraft that have a very low success rate of lasting more than a year or two and losses extend beyond just airframe due to the high energy impacts.
The more manufacturers on the market the better as far as i'm concerned. More selections, better pricing and more hobbyist drawn to this segment. Everything I would want as a business owner which caters to the Jet market. However, Airframes manufactured with such deficiencies are extremely dangerous to the hobby as a whole. If one of these airframes comes apart and flies into a ''bus full of nuns'' (sorry, vintage RCU guys will get this one) it could end the hobby as we know it.... For you, a hobby goes away.... For me, its a livelihood! We need to be pro-active in minimizing risk across the board; we are being watched closely, now more than ever! We all need to join forces in protecting the hobby before its too late! Glade to see this movement started, sad to see FEJ still just does not get it [
]Todd
If you are willing to do all this, then I suggest you profit from your own work and talent, and start your own r/c jet company.
After what I've seen, I highly doubt FEJ will be able to get it right, or be willing to, even with step-by-step instructions.
04-22-2013, 08:32 AM
#119
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RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
ORIGINAL: Jeff Foley
Agree 100% with everything said in this post. I too have been producing aerospace quality parts with room temp curing resins and honeycomb material for many years. The problem is that we have reached the point where the size, weight and performance of these models require them to be properly engineered....instead of just overbuilding or guessing that something is strong enough. I am not a structures engineer, but I know enough to know when to stop and ask one!
ORIGINAL: CRG
Have to disagree here. It is very possible to produce high quality honeycomb sandwich parts at or near room temperature (100F), in epoxy molds. I do it all the time. Peel strength of the inner liner is certainly critical, and there are several methods for achieving a consistent bond without requiring an autoclave, high-temp molds, post curing etc.
In general, I'm still baffled by the reliance on structural 'strength' and high-torque servos for flutter prevention. Flutter is an aero problem, and can be largely prevented through simple measures. On a full flying surface one method would be the correct relationship between pivot, CG and aerodynamic center. No amount of structural beef will prevent flutter.
Not that I'm defending FEJ in any way, and I applaud Dave S. for standing up for his beliefs.
CRG
Have to disagree here. It is very possible to produce high quality honeycomb sandwich parts at or near room temperature (100F), in epoxy molds. I do it all the time. Peel strength of the inner liner is certainly critical, and there are several methods for achieving a consistent bond without requiring an autoclave, high-temp molds, post curing etc.
In general, I'm still baffled by the reliance on structural 'strength' and high-torque servos for flutter prevention. Flutter is an aero problem, and can be largely prevented through simple measures. On a full flying surface one method would be the correct relationship between pivot, CG and aerodynamic center. No amount of structural beef will prevent flutter.
Not that I'm defending FEJ in any way, and I applaud Dave S. for standing up for his beliefs.
CRG
04-23-2013, 09:47 AM
#120
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RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
I wanted to point that what is more a danger to our hobby. Its people who do dumb things that put our hobby in danger. For example, flying a turbine jet over a hangar full of air planes is just stupid. Especially if that person thinks its funny. Only someone with no brain at all would do that.
So certification or no, bad jets or no, we still have to not be complete idiots at the same time or it dont matter.
So certification or no, bad jets or no, we still have to not be complete idiots at the same time or it dont matter.
ORIGINAL: gunradd
The best thing the AMA could do to help us stay out of the cross hairs of the FAA would be to get involved with this. I don't think we need to go as far as certificating each plane but at least having some type of certification for each aircraft type from the manufactures. That would put the manufactures under the gun to make them airworthy before they send them to the AMA for type certification.
With out the certification then the aircraft cannot fly at AMA events.
So when a new type airframe is built by a manufacture they would need to send one to this AMA inspection for certification. This might even make them make proper manuals with correct CGs and throws.
For sure some big problems are involved. Like who at the AMA could do this? How does it get paid for and exct. Lots of questions but if we could work towrds something like this it would be huge for our hobby in protecting us from the FAA.
Me being someone that deals with the FAA often trust me when I say we dont want them involved at all in our hobby. If they do get involved we will have a hard time even owning jets much less flying them. All it would take is one event where one of these planes fly into the crowd and we are done!
The best thing the AMA could do to help us stay out of the cross hairs of the FAA would be to get involved with this. I don't think we need to go as far as certificating each plane but at least having some type of certification for each aircraft type from the manufactures. That would put the manufactures under the gun to make them airworthy before they send them to the AMA for type certification.
With out the certification then the aircraft cannot fly at AMA events.
So when a new type airframe is built by a manufacture they would need to send one to this AMA inspection for certification. This might even make them make proper manuals with correct CGs and throws.
For sure some big problems are involved. Like who at the AMA could do this? How does it get paid for and exct. Lots of questions but if we could work towrds something like this it would be huge for our hobby in protecting us from the FAA.
Me being someone that deals with the FAA often trust me when I say we dont want them involved at all in our hobby. If they do get involved we will have a hard time even owning jets much less flying them. All it would take is one event where one of these planes fly into the crowd and we are done!
07-11-2013, 05:30 PM
#121
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RE: FlyEagle Jet Zero Tolerance Policy
Due to recent events at Jets Over KY. I think it may be appropriate to renew this discussion!
Copied from another thread: "the big FEJ Hawk was being flown by Ali when the tail fluttered, parts blew off and down she came. He was not pushing the aircraft hard. "
I mean, REALLLY?! What's it going to take?
David S
If you're unclear on the topic, please go to page one and re-read the original post before commenting.
Copied from another thread: "the big FEJ Hawk was being flown by Ali when the tail fluttered, parts blew off and down she came. He was not pushing the aircraft hard. "
I mean, REALLLY?! What's it going to take?
David S
If you're unclear on the topic, please go to page one and re-read the original post before commenting.
