Arghh Retracts, electric just as likely to fail as air.
#26
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I bought a set of Lados (RS333-85S) in Sept 2011. Jack screw setup failed by Feb 2012. Not a lot of flying in those 5 months. Magnum RC fixed it under warranty, but it failed a year later. No longer in warranty so I opened it up. Found an additional problem - one of the power leads was barely attached. Smoked the board trying to resolder the lead. Anyway 50/50 success with that set of electrics. Sitting in a box gathering dust.
Brian
Brian
#29
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Some of us in the classic pattern world have been trying the Eflite electrics with not-so-good results. Almost every application has resulted in nose gear failure, in the well. Lots of scraped pipes and/or burned bellies. It appears the gear does not like being bolted close to a screaming piped 60.
#30
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I bought a set of Lados (RS333-85S) in Sept 2011. Jack screw setup failed by Feb 2012. Not a lot of flying in those 5 months. Magnum RC fixed it under warranty, but it failed a year later. No longer in warranty so I opened it up. Found an additional problem - one of the power leads was barely attached. Smoked the board trying to resolder the lead. Anyway 50/50 success with that set of electrics. Sitting in a box gathering dust.
Brian
Brian
Send Christophe (the owner) at Lado a mail explaining your problem and i am sure he will assist no questions asked. For your info the RS 333 retracts have been subject to a firmware upgrade.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
#32
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Been using Electrons large and small for 2 years now, zero issues. The large ER50 have a lot of weight to lift with the electric brakes but with a combination of low speed/high torque they have plenty of power.
Nothing is ever going to be 100% reliable, be it engine, radio or retracts. There will always be people who have failures using exactly the same gear as people who have zero failures.... That's life.
Rob.
Nothing is ever going to be 100% reliable, be it engine, radio or retracts. There will always be people who have failures using exactly the same gear as people who have zero failures.... That's life.
Rob.
#33
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One of the things that pneumatic has over electric is that is the case of emergency or if a gear leg doesn't fully lock or extend, the strut will simply fold up with no damage to the retract. Granted, you may incur minor belly damage, but that is better than belly damage and a stripped out, trashed electric retract.
After having both types for a while, I don't think that one is more operationally reliable than the other as long as the installation is good. Pneumatic gear do seem to be more rugged and longer lasting.
After having both types for a while, I don't think that one is more operationally reliable than the other as long as the installation is good. Pneumatic gear do seem to be more rugged and longer lasting.
#34
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The issue with the air retracts is manufactures are not upgrading cylinders typically. One exception is JMP. The gear in the Firebird lift a very large and heavy wheel and do so with authority. If you see the retracts for JMP's Dauntless, they are bigger gear and wheels than any of our jets, so Tom was wise enough to use a bigger cylinder to alleviate the issues with the weight. On my Firebird, he also uses two cylinders for each of the main gear doors, The doors stay closed in flight unlike many other jets I've watched.
It's not that there are problems with air retracts, it's that manufactures aren't all being wise about the size of cylinders needed to be reliable. No different than electric I would assume, got a bigger gear, you'll need a bigger motor. For me, I like the simplicity of a valve and an air tank. I see to many potential issues with dirt and debris getting into electric gear causing issues than I think they'd be worth. I have no need for electric gear, and since I've had no issues with my air systems, I'll stick with them
It's not that there are problems with air retracts, it's that manufactures aren't all being wise about the size of cylinders needed to be reliable. No different than electric I would assume, got a bigger gear, you'll need a bigger motor. For me, I like the simplicity of a valve and an air tank. I see to many potential issues with dirt and debris getting into electric gear causing issues than I think they'd be worth. I have no need for electric gear, and since I've had no issues with my air systems, I'll stick with them
#35
My Feedback: (40)
Craig
#37
My Feedback: (134)
I have the Behotec C50F with electric brakes on my Comp Arf Skygate Viper and am pleased with them so far. This gear is rated at 55 lbs and it appears to be plenty strong to handle the load.. The gear and struts have worked great. Had some trouble with the electric brakes but mostly that was due to the lack of clarity (at least to me) of the instructions. Now that I have figured the brakes out they are working nicely and allow me to land and stop the Viper in 150-200 feet.
I do understand the concern of some about keeping the screw drive clean and well lubricated. I am using a product called T-9 Boeshield on the screw drives. It is a paraffin based lubricant that sprays on and does not leave any oil or grease on the screw or block. I have use it for years on racing sailboat blocks and moving parts with great success. So far it seems to working well on the gear as well and that includes some time off road in the grass overrun before I go the brakes figured out.
Another big plus to these brakes is the setup of the plane. Only one controller for gear and brakes and that includes the fail safe in case of low voltage.
I do understand the concern of some about keeping the screw drive clean and well lubricated. I am using a product called T-9 Boeshield on the screw drives. It is a paraffin based lubricant that sprays on and does not leave any oil or grease on the screw or block. I have use it for years on racing sailboat blocks and moving parts with great success. So far it seems to working well on the gear as well and that includes some time off road in the grass overrun before I go the brakes figured out.
Another big plus to these brakes is the setup of the plane. Only one controller for gear and brakes and that includes the fail safe in case of low voltage.
#38
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And if they don't, what are our options? I ran into this issue with a European manufacturer who wouldn't even sell me (much less replace) a faulty cylinder. I turned to electrics more out of frustration than dissatisfaction with air retracts in general. The jury is still out for me since I have yet to fly the electrics but I'm a little concerned how they will perform in flight, since they seem to be a little underpowered.
Craig
Craig
Tried to reply to this yesterday but RCU's upgrades won't let me do squat on my phone anymore.
Anyway, this is the problem Craig, we're trading one set of problems for another potential set of problems. Underpowered air cylinders for underpowered electric worm drives. We've seen multiple manufactures bring out new retracts, but all with the same size. Bigger cylinders are out there, why aren't manufactures using them? Probably because the mentality these days of the average consumer has become that of, "I'll just buy this one and then deal with making it work". Where is the incentive for the manufacture to make proper working parts if the consumer keeps buying the crap. Some of the air issues can be helped with higher flow valves, such as the ones JMP sells. Tom Cook's landing gear for the Dauntless project is HUGE, with HUGE wheels, and the used bigger cylinders. Even on my firebird, the gear doors use 2 cylinders and they do not open in flight like so many other manufactures.
BVM retracts work because they are sized properly for the cylinders being used, same as JMP. I see more potential issues with electric than with air, but the question needs to be asked, why aren't retract manufactures making bigger cylinders for these large jets. They are making new retract frames all the time, why can't they fit new cylinders? 1/16" diameter increase would make a huge difference in power. With the big jets it's not like space is an issue.
I think it really does come down to the willingness of today's consumer to purchase items now, and try to make them work later. Be nice if a new product would come out that was actually overbuilt for the task at hand instead of "just enough" to do the job.
#39
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Tried to reply to this yesterday but RCU's upgrades won't let me do squat on my phone anymore.
Anyway, this is the problem Craig, we're trading one set of problems for another potential set of problems. Underpowered air cylinders for underpowered electric worm drives. We've seen multiple manufactures bring out new retracts, but all with the same size. Bigger cylinders are out there, why aren't manufactures using them? Probably because the mentality these days of the average consumer has become that of, "I'll just buy this one and then deal with making it work". Where is the incentive for the manufacture to make proper working parts if the consumer keeps buying the crap. Some of the air issues can be helped with higher flow valves, such as the ones JMP sells. Tom Cook's landing gear for the Dauntless project is HUGE, with HUGE wheels, and the used bigger cylinders. Even on my firebird, the gear doors use 2 cylinders and they do not open in flight like so many other manufactures.
BVM retracts work because they are sized properly for the cylinders being used, same as JMP. I see more potential issues with electric than with air, but the question needs to be asked, why aren't retract manufactures making bigger cylinders for these large jets. They are making new retract frames all the time, why can't they fit new cylinders? 1/16" diameter increase would make a huge difference in power. With the big jets it's not like space is an issue.
I think it really does come down to the willingness of today's consumer to purchase items now, and try to make them work later. Be nice if a new product would come out that was actually overbuilt for the task at hand instead of "just enough" to do the job.
Anyway, this is the problem Craig, we're trading one set of problems for another potential set of problems. Underpowered air cylinders for underpowered electric worm drives. We've seen multiple manufactures bring out new retracts, but all with the same size. Bigger cylinders are out there, why aren't manufactures using them? Probably because the mentality these days of the average consumer has become that of, "I'll just buy this one and then deal with making it work". Where is the incentive for the manufacture to make proper working parts if the consumer keeps buying the crap. Some of the air issues can be helped with higher flow valves, such as the ones JMP sells. Tom Cook's landing gear for the Dauntless project is HUGE, with HUGE wheels, and the used bigger cylinders. Even on my firebird, the gear doors use 2 cylinders and they do not open in flight like so many other manufactures.
BVM retracts work because they are sized properly for the cylinders being used, same as JMP. I see more potential issues with electric than with air, but the question needs to be asked, why aren't retract manufactures making bigger cylinders for these large jets. They are making new retract frames all the time, why can't they fit new cylinders? 1/16" diameter increase would make a huge difference in power. With the big jets it's not like space is an issue.
I think it really does come down to the willingness of today's consumer to purchase items now, and try to make them work later. Be nice if a new product would come out that was actually overbuilt for the task at hand instead of "just enough" to do the job.
My sentiments entirely. The only generic set that I have found that is suitable for large aircraft is the Behotec c60 but the cylinder is very fat and is reversed the wrong side for me. Also it has a short stroke. I have got mine working at 35 psi with a single leg and now have finished the 3 retract set so can test it this weekend so we will see if it will work all 3 legs at 35 psi. Mine has a different philosophy to the C60 and I think that helps. Now if you were to electrify these retracts it should be a simple matter to get them working reliably as the forces are so much lower.
John
#40
Two years have passed with more and more top end retract manufacturers going to or offering electrics. I have been using Eflite 60-120 retracts in my Deuces and the only "failure" has been a hang up in the wheel well ; just cycle and down they come . Have never had a drive failure yet just the landing gear wire bending and thus can happen with air as well with the same results. Have been using this setup for 5 years on grass most of the time .I may switch to trailing link gear but am concerned that they may not handle the added weight or go to heavier wire. The Prolink gear in my Sprint jet is flawless . Have seen many an air system not work and there is usually a reason due to low air pressure or hangups . There has been a lot of improvement in larger electrics once that initial learning curve was mastered and the usual issue was the drive motors not being strong enough to lift heavy gear and wheels.
I can remember about 3 years ago, I got into a discussion on electric for jets and got pretty much got crapped all over and basically told it would never happen . Well folks electric is here and looks like it's here to stay as all the biggies have been into electrics for a while now !
I can remember about 3 years ago, I got into a discussion on electric for jets and got pretty much got crapped all over and basically told it would never happen . Well folks electric is here and looks like it's here to stay as all the biggies have been into electrics for a while now !
#41
My Feedback: (61)
The electron EV50 and the newer ER 50evo have worked well for me on a 2 cell A123 and can do some heavy lifting. The Robart and down and locked seemed to like 9v. Robart sells a 9v regulator that works well on any size pack up to a 6s. I usually tap the 3 cell turbine pack and run it thru the reg for the electric retracs.
Vin...
Vin...
#42
My Feedback: (30)
etracts had issues at first with people use 2s lifes direct to them now they're 6v for Lander, Gemini and JPs... have to use a separate bec for the larger etracts... there's no way I'd run them through the rx bus.
Really reliable stuff, they for the most part take a beating no matter what size model.
There's no way I'd go back to air... not even a thought, even with a separate bec the electric is twice as easy
Robart makes has some nice conversions for 200.00 that's going on all the models where Landers or Gemins don't fit
Even using Lander gear door actuators... no more air
Really reliable stuff, they for the most part take a beating no matter what size model.
There's no way I'd go back to air... not even a thought, even with a separate bec the electric is twice as easy
Robart makes has some nice conversions for 200.00 that's going on all the models where Landers or Gemins don't fit
Even using Lander gear door actuators... no more air
#45
And what happens when an air line comes off ? Can happen . Those that knock electric's probably are going by hearsay
and have never tried descent electrics. Like trying to compare $100 leaky cheap air retracts or $100 electrics with quality $800 air or electric retracts . Gotta play fair and judge fair.
and have never tried descent electrics. Like trying to compare $100 leaky cheap air retracts or $100 electrics with quality $800 air or electric retracts . Gotta play fair and judge fair.
Last edited by stegl; 12-05-2015 at 11:46 AM.
#48
My Feedback: (41)
Air wont set your plane on fire
And what happens when an air line comes off ? Can happen . Those that knock electric's probably are going by hearsay
and have never tried descent electrics. Like trying to compare $100 leaky cheap air retracts or $100 electrics with quality $800 air or electric retracts . Gotta play fair and judge fair
And what happens when an air line comes off ? Can happen . Those that knock electric's probably are going by hearsay
and have never tried descent electrics. Like trying to compare $100 leaky cheap air retracts or $100 electrics with quality $800 air or electric retracts . Gotta play fair and judge fair
#50
electric retracts
[QUOTE=RAPPTOR;12137173]Air wont set your plane on fire
with that statement about batteries and electric retracts being set on fire; got a question.... Just what do you use to fire your turbine and run your receivers and servos ? OH maybe air start ! That's it. Obviously , you have never even tried electric's so why comment. I see that all the top end manufacturers have gone to electrics so there just must be something to the benefits. They don't seem to stick their head in the sand. Most all users are very happy with them so if you are happy with your air go for it.
with that statement about batteries and electric retracts being set on fire; got a question.... Just what do you use to fire your turbine and run your receivers and servos ? OH maybe air start ! That's it. Obviously , you have never even tried electric's so why comment. I see that all the top end manufacturers have gone to electrics so there just must be something to the benefits. They don't seem to stick their head in the sand. Most all users are very happy with them so if you are happy with your air go for it.