AndyAndrews

Luca was not a one man operation. Did you see his commercial trailer and crew? I think there is a misconception from some that he did this all on his own. But that being said, for anyone who has a better idea on how the IJMC should handle future judging etc, there is a Rule Change Proposal http://www.ijmc.net/ form that you can fill out AND trust me they are listening. Now more than ever! They are really looking for opinions on how to make this event even better. If you have an idea please submit a form.

schroedm

My Feedback: (1)

I think he is behind GDS Models in Italy so likely has access to stuff the average modeller may not I guess.

Euan

Hello,
As a visitor to the Wjm 2013 I was saddened to Hear the stories unfolding about Luca and his dismissal from the event he spent a good 10 mins speaking to me and my son allowing us to photograph it up close nice chap a real pity,
also thanks to members of team USA for also taking time to chat and answer questions,
cheers
Euan and Cam Galloway

-JC-

My Feedback: (26)

Unfortunately, all scale competitions are filled with cheaters. Fake photos, modified 3-views, planes that where built by pro-builders and entered as self made, finishing touches done by someone else, planes built by employees, large sponsors getting extra points, friends of judges getting special treatment... You name it, and it's been done.

It is a fact that several trophies are won through cheating, and it really takes the fun out of competing.

It's good to see that severe punishment was given. Hopefully other cheaters will think twice before trying to cut corners if they know what getting caught might mean.

David Searles

My Feedback: (49)

Which is what makes this whole sequence of events so tragic!

David S

argyris

[QUOTE=AndyAndrews;11608055]Luca was not a one man operation. Did you see his commercial trailer and crew? I think there is a misconception from some that he did this all on his own.


The commercial video from youtube from yesterday deleted unfortunately.I can't find it anymore.

AndyAndrews

Can someone from Switzerland with the JWM please email me? I need assistance on shipping my crate back to the USA. I must email the shipping documents to the Base so they can give them to the shipper. This is the only way I can get the crate back from DHL.

Thanks Andy
[email protected]

David Gladwin

John's statement is neither absurd nor ridiculous and his opinion is very similar to many I heard at Meriingen. I was there, (the Fiat was next to our table) have examined the model in minute detail and discussed it with Luca and watched it fly, and it flew very well too. I have a copy of the statement and pictures he issued to several of us. It is a superb model, which could well have won IF he had started with proper documentation. After all, he owns the fullsize machine.

Disagree by all means, but do you HAVE to start insulting the valid opinions of others. ?

David Gladwin.

David Searles

My Feedback: (49)

"After all he owns the fullsize machine"

David, you just proved my point. Since he had complete access to the real jet, what possible excuse is there to fabricate the documentation! You both, it appears, desperately want to excuse the fact that he made a knowing decision to cheat! My comment had absolutely nothing to do with the scale fidelity of the model, it's flying characteristics or the skills Luca displayed in building it! It solely rests on his decision to lie. If he did indeed also fabricate the documentation for the 2011 model, that means he had another two years to obtain the proper documentation and still didn't do it! If their were a large monetary award involved, his actions would be considered fraudulent in any court in the world and he would be not only be liable but could do jail time for his actions! The fact that their isn't makes the whole episode even more incomprehensible. A modeler with his talent, skills, knowledge, access etc makes a decision which could and now has, damaged his reputation in the hobby, and for what?!

If John's comment was meant as a description of the quality of the build, then please excuse my misunderstanding, but his comment seemed to me to be an attempt to reduce Luca's act of fabricating the documentation, down to a timing issue. That, is the point I did, and still would consider, absurd & ridiculous. Perhaps the better way to state it would be "it could have won, if he had completed proper documentation" That statement I could agree with, wholeheartedly!

David S

AndyAndrews

Actually, it was proven that he never owned the real jet. The photos he presented to the judges of his so called "owned" full scale jet were also Photoshop versions of his model. It was an odd thing to experience because Luca showed me a picture of his full scale jet that was supposedly in his garden hanging from a crane while we were both waiting to be static judged. As it turns out, the jet hanging on the crane above his model was a photo shopped version of his model on a crane. The crane was photo shopped too. The tell tell signs were that there was no shadow of the supposed full scale jet hanging on the crane when everything else in the pictures had shadows.

A deception to the Nth degree for sure.

I do give Luca credit for crating such a fantastic model and his flying skills are top in the world. It's just so sad that he resorted to this. He could have won it without these deceptions.

Craig B.

I have never competed at JWM and am not interested in doing so, particularly in light of what I have read recently. Unfortunately, human nature once again has detracted from what should be a great event.

The Fiat looked like a brilliant model in the pics I have seen. From my distant perspective I would suggest that he could have won IF he had followed the rules and refrained from deliberately fabricating documentation. Starting with the right documentation is one matter; deliberately being deceitful, if that was the case, is quite another.

Maybe I am misunderstanding things as I was not there, but I do know that hypotheticals don't change what actually transpired. I would therefore add to David's statement........and IF he had followed the rules. I don't think the gentleman's ability was ever in question, just his ethics.

Bolshoi

My Feedback: (2)

Vitaly is an executive of Lukoil, he's not worried about anything but his ego.

JackD

My Feedback: (4)

I mentioned this on the other thread: the model showed great realism and craftmanship, but we don't know if it is accurate. So we really can't speculate on the what if. Maybe the plane is completely off in outline, maybe the markings are not in the right place, colors off... whaterver. We will not know unless we have a picture of the real one

Good craftmanship and realism are part of the equation, but accuracy actually weighs more in the total scores.

Net... could have won? no idea... no one can tell

David Gladwin

You both, it appears, desperately want to excuse the fact that he made a knowing decision to cheat!

What complete and utter nonsense, how did you dream this up?

He cheated, he got caught out, he was disqualified, that's a given, understood, everyone now knows that. It was discussed ad finitum in Meiringen. Very sad. BUT, as many of us concluded, who were THERE and saw the model and his flying, had he started with proper and legitimate documentation he could possibly have won.

I'll leave it at that, make what you will of it.

David Gladwin.

David Searles

My Feedback: (49)

Glad to see we finally agree. That has been my position all along.

David S

LarsL

Luca didn't "just make the mistake of not starting with the documentation", he made the mistake of just cheating. That I believe is what the Davids agree on and it has been somewhat amusing watching you both circle around that.

As far as Americans enlisting the support of USA aircraft manufacturers in getting access to scale documentation, should the results of that be made available to everyone? Or do the Americans with their proprietary information duke it out with competitors from other countries who have been successful arm twisting their domestic aircraft manufacturers for proprietary information. Where will that leave the poor competitors who don't have domestic aircraft manufacturers to approach as I don't think it likely they will have luck going "outside." Where will this lead?

Lars

rcjets_63

My Feedback: (4)

I spoke at length with Vitaly about the supposed support he received from YAK. They provided drawings, no computer models. They did certify his document package as being accurate. Even with all this supposed support and backing, he was unable to get a good top view photo. He spent a couple of thousand hours in front of a CAD station designing the 3D model which was then used to cut the plug. He did the litho plating of the plug himself. He chuckled about the reports in the US magazines where his airplane was estimated at costing $500,000. He said that it cost him about $600 to get each wing plug machined, about the same for the tail surfaces, and about the same for each of the two pieces of fuselage. There were about 40 molds for the many different parts of the plane. He did not sit back and merely sign a check for this plane. He was intimately involved in it's development.

As for Americans enlisting the support of US aircraft manufacturers and getting proprietary information, the idea is laughable. Given current government rules regarding security requirements, I doubt that anyone could get proprietary information that would be of any use. Additionally, this really would only apply to current generation modern fighters such as the F-22. There is so much information available on F-15's, F-16's, F-18's, etc that there simply is no need to have an "in" at an American aircraft manufacturer. Indeed, in support of the model I hope to bring to Germany in 2015, we bought a technical data package consisting of 104,000 sheets of drawings from the Smithsonian. Anyone is able to make a similar purchase.

As for competitors who don't have domestic aircraft manufacturers, that is irrelevant. I'm building a SAAB Gripen (Swedish manufacturer) and needed some information on painting and markings. I simply went to the Saab website, clicked on Contact Us, wrote an email explaining what I needed and received the (non-proprietary) documents.

Regards,

Jim

LarsL

Someone else suggested that a missing ingrediant towards winning was accurate detailed information from the manufacturers. Jim has pointed out that all of that is available. So, it comes down to skill, hard work (a full year in front of a CAD screen), and at least a bit of money. Good luck Jim in Germany, it sounds like you are on the right track.

Jetflyer3000

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