Hawk crash
09-22-2013, 09:44 AM
#226
For the Hawk crash, it was happened at Feburay and we have already done extra reinforcemnet right after his Hawk crash. We also sent extra reinforcment material to customers at that time already.
For above one, we heard it has been damaged before on his nose and reas section and one wing. The model was rebuild and repaired by himself. We can not comment this case.
We "FEJ" care about safety and doing improvement on our model as better as we can.
Thanks for all good or bad comment. We will respect all.
For above one, we heard it has been damaged before on his nose and reas section and one wing. The model was rebuild and repaired by himself. We can not comment this case.
We "FEJ" care about safety and doing improvement on our model as better as we can.
Thanks for all good or bad comment. We will respect all.
So Johnny, please show & describe the "extra reinforcement" that was done to rectify the stab situation. We'd like to see the side-by-side improvement of the old design and the new design.
Plus, from the stab pictures of this particular Hawk, it still looks like poor design, inedaquate engineering and feeble construction was the cause of this crash.
Additionally, I wonder why no other customers or fej dealers (like gjhinshaw) didn't already mention that fej contacted them, or had sent this "extra material" to customers. I would think an fej dealer would have spoken up before this.
I wonder what their latest "fix" for the stab is...
Last edited by j.duncker; 09-23-2013 at 07:42 AM.
09-22-2013, 09:46 AM
#227
Sluggo,
You're right. It would be easy enough to certify the pics to the specific bird if they were interested in doing something like this. A serial number and a Sharpie would do the trick.
You're right. It would be easy enough to certify the pics to the specific bird if they were interested in doing something like this. A serial number and a Sharpie would do the trick.
09-22-2013, 10:12 AM
#228
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FEJ Hawk
Every time FEJ gets hammerd, the crazy's get on the forums and try to sell there FEJ junk,Just check out RCG..No one will ever learn...So what else is new????
Last edited by chopper52; 09-22-2013 at 10:15 AM.
09-22-2013, 11:05 AM
#230
Not to add fuel to the fire, but another FEJ Hawk had its stabs blow out in flight this past Wednesday (Sep 18) and ended up in flames when it hit the ground and got totally destroyed.
We were organizing our first Jet event in 2014 at that airport and now the management of the airport decided against it after seeing the crash.
Have pictures etc. but will not release names nor pictures unless the pilot himself wishes to do so.
So not only FEJ is deeply impacting our pockets, they are hindering our ability to hold more events citing safety.
What more can one say?
We were organizing our first Jet event in 2014 at that airport and now the management of the airport decided against it after seeing the crash.
Have pictures etc. but will not release names nor pictures unless the pilot himself wishes to do so.
So not only FEJ is deeply impacting our pockets, they are hindering our ability to hold more events citing safety.
What more can one say?
Sorry to hear about this incident and the effect it had of preventing a jet rally.
Can you offer any more details of the crash? What size of Hawk was it? When was it manufactured? Are there any photos of the stabs and their construction? Given that the manufacturer stated that they sent out "extra reinforcement" after a the OP's crash in February, did the owner receive these parts or was he otherwise informed by FEJ of the problem?
Jim
09-22-2013, 11:07 AM
#231
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So he is Dubai....... I am in America.... So you stating what you said, Than why even post it here on RCU?? Why...... He has NOTHING to do with you, me, or anyone else in America..... If he wants to fly next to his jet than let him.... If the plane blows up, WHY.... should we care?? He is NOT part of America OR its rules! So WHO is to say he even has a waiver?? OHHH wait.... that's just America..... So I would say that this clearly has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING with us in USA or even FEJ!!! He could be a Joe Blow and or anyone else...... So this WHOLE thing should just be set to HIS country and NOT have ANYTHING to do with America!!!!
He sure would be.. IF the AMA covered the ENTIRE WORLD! HE"S IN DUBAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, and by your rational, When you go and buy a brand new full-scale Airplane to fly in, you should completely disassemble it to ensure its airworthy. Even thought it comes with a fresh annual and zero time on it.
That is completely Absurd! When you receive the model, if there are no directions to tell you to inspect the structure, and or no way to physically Inspect the internal structure, then they (the manufacturers) are basically saying "this structure is flight worthy WHEN it leaves the Factory". When the model arrives to the pilot / owner they are responsible for Visually inspecting the VISIBLY accessible components and construction methods.
IF you can not VISIBLY see it without destructive methods, then it should not fall to the owner to ensure its designed properly.
You FEJ Fan boys are Crazy. No where have I ever seen in a BVM, Comp-Arf, Airworld, etc manual that says to cut open a composite structure to inspect it to be sure it is designed properly. And if there ever was a statement like that in a manual for a model I purchased, i would swiftly be on the phone to return it!
Oh, and by your rational, When you go and buy a brand new full-scale Airplane to fly in, you should completely disassemble it to ensure its airworthy. Even thought it comes with a fresh annual and zero time on it.
That is completely Absurd! When you receive the model, if there are no directions to tell you to inspect the structure, and or no way to physically Inspect the internal structure, then they (the manufacturers) are basically saying "this structure is flight worthy WHEN it leaves the Factory". When the model arrives to the pilot / owner they are responsible for Visually inspecting the VISIBLY accessible components and construction methods.
IF you can not VISIBLY see it without destructive methods, then it should not fall to the owner to ensure its designed properly.
You FEJ Fan boys are Crazy. No where have I ever seen in a BVM, Comp-Arf, Airworld, etc manual that says to cut open a composite structure to inspect it to be sure it is designed properly. And if there ever was a statement like that in a manual for a model I purchased, i would swiftly be on the phone to return it!
09-22-2013, 11:19 AM
#232
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If this is the one I know of, yes it had the new reinforcement installed.
Quote from the owner (posted on RC Canada).
Originally Posted by Gsxr
Same thing happened to mine on Wednesday of last week I am livid. FEJ tells me it's my fault ***. There were 6 witnesses that saw the elevators seperate from the airplane and I lost everything 8G's down the drain and a brand new engine in it first flight with it. It's funny I even did their mods that they recommended. Do'nt buy anything from themWhen he contacted FEJ they told him that he must have done something to it and it was his fault. I too would be LIVID! Total loss! Brand new engjine etc!
Somethings gotta give here...How long can this go on?
Last edited by Gary Arthur; 09-22-2013 at 11:48 AM.
09-22-2013, 11:29 AM
#233
So he is Dubai....... I am in America.... So you stating what you said, Than why even post it here on RCU?? Why...... He has NOTHING to do with you, me, or anyone else in America..... If he wants to fly next to his jet than let him.... If the plane blows up, WHY.... should we care?? He is NOT part of America OR its rules! So WHO is to say he even has a waiver?? OHHH wait.... that's just America..... So I would say that this clearly has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING with us in USA or even FEJ!!! He could be a Joe Blow and or anyone else...... So this WHOLE thing should just be set to HIS country and NOT have ANYTHING to do with America!!!!
Now i understand what my parents meant when the said it was like arguing with a tree.
Why should thiz be kept completely in the country it happened, because it has nothing to do with america? Here's a wakeup and common sense check for you. This is about a Manufacturer that has had repeated success at models with faulty designs and crap workmanship. This isnt about one incident. It is about ALL of them, past, present and most probably Future until they (FEJ) actually admit some fault and show some genuine concern and embarassment about everything that has happened, they deserve all of the bas publicity they get, and you trying to defend them just makes it even worse off for them since you are a dealer for them. Once that happens and they show a long term improvement and success rate, then maybe they will deserve the praise that you say they deserve now (which they obviously dont).
09-22-2013, 11:36 AM
#234
09-22-2013, 11:36 AM
#235
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09-22-2013, 11:56 AM
#236
So he is Dubai....... I am in America.... He has NOTHING to do with you, me, or anyone else in America..... If he wants to fly next to his jet than let him.... If the plane blows up, WHY.... should we care??..... So I would say that this clearly has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING with us in USA or even FEJ!!!!
This jets were all made at the same factory which would imply the same design standards (or lack thereof), the same manufacturing processes, and the same quality control (or lack thereof). These jets are shipped worldwide including to customers in the USA. If a particular model blows up in the UAE (that's the United Arab Emirates in which Dubai is a city for those geographically challenged), England, Switzerland, Brazil, or Madagascar, etc, and the same jet is being flown here, knowing about it would be a good thing. Why? Because owners of the same plane would know of a potential defect and could either take action to correct the problem or get the factory to send them corrected parts, potential owners may delay/cancel a purchase of a jet which may be flawed, CD's may prevent a flawed jet from flying at an event for safety reasons, or other pilots may elect to place themselves in a hardened bunker or otherwise safe place when the jet takes to the air.
If an American (or a person of any other nationality for that matter) is contemplating buying a Brand-X SuperJet for $5K, but the SuperJet has a history of blowing up, he might want to take that into account before slapping down his money. If he decides to roll the dice (as far too many people seem to be willing to do - per Ali's comment "Price is King") then I might just elect for the bunker option when it takes to the air.
Jim
09-22-2013, 12:39 PM
#238
Like I said, if FEJ or anyone else has a KNOWN defective airframe CD's should ban that airframe from flying in the show.... PERIOD.
CD's and pilots already risk a lawsuit if personal harm or property damage is caused by a jet. Knowingly allowing these defective airframes to participate in an event assures that the plaintiff will receive maximum judgement available under law. Whether through negligence or even gross negligence which can be punitive other than monetary, it doesn't matter. I would be very careful if I were a CD at an event, especially with all of the RCU and Youtube evidence out there that could be used in court to prove a case.
CD's and pilots already risk a lawsuit if personal harm or property damage is caused by a jet. Knowingly allowing these defective airframes to participate in an event assures that the plaintiff will receive maximum judgement available under law. Whether through negligence or even gross negligence which can be punitive other than monetary, it doesn't matter. I would be very careful if I were a CD at an event, especially with all of the RCU and Youtube evidence out there that could be used in court to prove a case.
09-22-2013, 12:48 PM
#239
Like I said, if FEJ or anyone else has a KNOWN defective airframe CD's should ban that airframe from flying in the show.... PERIOD.
CD's and pilots already risk a lawsuit if personal harm or property damage is caused by a jet. Knowingly allowing these defective airframes to participate in an event assures that the plaintiff will receive maximum judgement available under law. Whether through negligence or even gross negligence which can be punitive other than monetary, it doesn't matter. I would be very careful if I were a CD at an event, especially with all of the RCU and Youtube evidence out there that could be used in court to prove a case.
CD's and pilots already risk a lawsuit if personal harm or property damage is caused by a jet. Knowingly allowing these defective airframes to participate in an event assures that the plaintiff will receive maximum judgement available under law. Whether through negligence or even gross negligence which can be punitive other than monetary, it doesn't matter. I would be very careful if I were a CD at an event, especially with all of the RCU and Youtube evidence out there that could be used in court to prove a case.
09-22-2013, 12:54 PM
#240
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I have always wondered how you guys can part with so much money and wait SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long for your jet to be delivered. I'll bet it's not a production thing, it's not a workmanship thing, it's not a backlog thing.
I'll bet they are keenly aware that most US credit card companies allow it's customers to file a charge back, for any reason, within 180 days of the sale! After 180 days you are screwed. FEJ times it perfectly, don't they ???
I'll bet they are keenly aware that most US credit card companies allow it's customers to file a charge back, for any reason, within 180 days of the sale! After 180 days you are screwed. FEJ times it perfectly, don't they ???
09-22-2013, 01:56 PM
#242
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For the Hawk crash, it was happened at Feburay and we have already done extra reinforcemnet right after his Hawk crash. We also sent extra reinforcment material to customers at that time already.
For above one, we heard it has been damaged before on his nose and reas section and one wing. The model was rebuild and repaired by himself. We can not comment this case.
We "FEJ" care about safety and doing improvement on our model as better as we can.
Thanks for all good or bad comment. We will respect all.
For above one, we heard it has been damaged before on his nose and reas section and one wing. The model was rebuild and repaired by himself. We can not comment this case.
We "FEJ" care about safety and doing improvement on our model as better as we can.
Thanks for all good or bad comment. We will respect all.
Does anyone know if this person is actually Johnny Wang ?
09-22-2013, 02:17 PM
#243
Would this include people like myself that have fixed the problems. Jim's f-14 has had so much done to it I wouldn't even consider it an Fej anymore. I don't think my f-15 is dangerous, the only thing I found was a simple fix. I do think some Fej jets (not all) should be banned unless they are modified.
I have to aggree with Andy when it comes to any event that has has a CD and is being covered by AMA in the USA. Now I feel like you about your F-15. Maybe if you have it documented and flight test standards meet then it would be proven safe to fly at events.
Maybe something we could do is come up with standards just like when we build a Experimental Aircraft and the FAA inspection for airworthyness is check and a 40 hours is flown.
For our models I would suggest at certin number of flights with special patterns to prove the design and someone qualified to sign off and inspect the records and airframe.
It would apply to airframes with failures like the FEJ. Not all of there birds the ones we all know have problems.
I am new to the jets compaired to most but I have learn FEJ is not the only one. What I do know is others have come up with solutions. Those jets could be signed off on once the proven mods were done.
JMHO
09-22-2013, 02:20 PM
#244
Does it really matter if it was JW or not? All I know is I will never buy FEJ period, I cannot control what others do and would obviously not want to.
God forbid if someone does get killed through structural failure, I would not want to be the pilot....
What I do not understand is FEJ go to all the trouble of producing plugs/moulds and kits and then **** up some of the most critical parts/process by doing what they are doing...
In my work which is a US company we own all our suppliers many of which are in Germany. With health and safety as strict as it is there would undoubtedly be court cases if we as a company put out products that we know could fail but more importantly end up killing someone due to the design.
I like others have said, cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would go out and spend $$$$$$$ on a kit that is known to fail.
Like Ali has said yes it is his livelihood but unlike quite a few retailers I have dealt with Ali does actually care...
Alan
God forbid if someone does get killed through structural failure, I would not want to be the pilot....
What I do not understand is FEJ go to all the trouble of producing plugs/moulds and kits and then **** up some of the most critical parts/process by doing what they are doing...
In my work which is a US company we own all our suppliers many of which are in Germany. With health and safety as strict as it is there would undoubtedly be court cases if we as a company put out products that we know could fail but more importantly end up killing someone due to the design.
I like others have said, cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would go out and spend $$$$$$$ on a kit that is known to fail.
Like Ali has said yes it is his livelihood but unlike quite a few retailers I have dealt with Ali does actually care...
Alan
09-22-2013, 03:07 PM
#245
Think about this guys, do you really want someone from the government or their blessed agency inspecting our planes. It starts out as planes over 55 lbs need an inspection, each year their tentacles creep in to the point where we have to buy a license just to certify our planes. Then, you'll need a physical exam to prove you're capable of flying it. Let's not lose sight of what this is and let the lack of buyers (capitalism) take care of this problem. I'm a full scale pilot who owns a plane and you can't go a month without having to do something to keep myself or plane compliant. Just think of your local drivers license dept and you'll get the idea!
09-22-2013, 03:15 PM
#246
FB,
Have you had an opportunity to X-ray your stabs or otherwise get a peek at what's going on inside there? I'd be concerned with ARF stab on one of these honeycomb airplanes at this point.
Have you had an opportunity to X-ray your stabs or otherwise get a peek at what's going on inside there? I'd be concerned with ARF stab on one of these honeycomb airplanes at this point.
09-22-2013, 03:17 PM
#247
Well to be legal I have to do this because my F-15 and F-14 will both require to be inspected and test flown to qualify for AMAs LM1 certification.
Bean,
I have to aggree with Andy when it comes to any event that has has a CD and is being covered by AMA in the USA. Now I feel like you about your F-15. Maybe if you have it documented and flight test standards meet then it would be proven safe to fly at events.
Maybe something we could do is come up with standards just like when we build a Experimental Aircraft and the FAA inspection for airworthyness is check and a 40 hours is flown.
For our models I would suggest at certin number of flights with special patterns to prove the design and someone qualified to sign off and inspect the records and airframe.
It would apply to airframes with failures like the FEJ. Not all of there birds the ones we all know have problems.
I am new to the jets compaired to most but I have learn FEJ is not the only one. What I do know is others have come up with solutions. Those jets could be signed off on once the proven mods were done.
JMHO
I have to aggree with Andy when it comes to any event that has has a CD and is being covered by AMA in the USA. Now I feel like you about your F-15. Maybe if you have it documented and flight test standards meet then it would be proven safe to fly at events.
Maybe something we could do is come up with standards just like when we build a Experimental Aircraft and the FAA inspection for airworthyness is check and a 40 hours is flown.
For our models I would suggest at certin number of flights with special patterns to prove the design and someone qualified to sign off and inspect the records and airframe.
It would apply to airframes with failures like the FEJ. Not all of there birds the ones we all know have problems.
I am new to the jets compaired to most but I have learn FEJ is not the only one. What I do know is others have come up with solutions. Those jets could be signed off on once the proven mods were done.
JMHO
09-22-2013, 03:32 PM
#248
Keith,
Regarding your F-14 and F-15 you are obviously putting in a lot of work and you mentioned correcting some visible issues. What are your thoughts on the areas that are sealed or otherwise not visible such as the internal stab and wing structure? EDFJim found that the factory installed stab pivots on the F-14 are at 27.4% MAC (well aft of the AMA allowable range) and thus prone to flutter. Is FEJ sending out new stabs and mechanisms to their customers? If not, are you planning on moving the pivots? What are your thoughts on X-raying the stabs to get some idea of the internal structure and pivot attachment within the stab?
Jim
Regarding your F-14 and F-15 you are obviously putting in a lot of work and you mentioned correcting some visible issues. What are your thoughts on the areas that are sealed or otherwise not visible such as the internal stab and wing structure? EDFJim found that the factory installed stab pivots on the F-14 are at 27.4% MAC (well aft of the AMA allowable range) and thus prone to flutter. Is FEJ sending out new stabs and mechanisms to their customers? If not, are you planning on moving the pivots? What are your thoughts on X-raying the stabs to get some idea of the internal structure and pivot attachment within the stab?
Jim
09-22-2013, 03:39 PM
#249
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Andy,
I understand what you are saying....BUT...... Now "YOU" as a CD could be sued for Discrimination! you know it will happen.....
I have been working on my FEJ, Yes... The one I have for sale, and I have completely redone the Whole tail section and elevator's. Not much left in there of there's..... I know I sell FEJ, Haven't sold one yet, ....BUT... I can tell you that If I WERE to sell one It would have to be the ones that don't have a history..... Just being honest! When I ordered my jet I asked for pictures as they built it and before they put the parts together.... I did get some pictures from them.....
To Ban ALL FEJ, That won't happen because there is "No Proof" that ALL FEJ are bad, Am I correct?? You would have to have a list if EVERY jet they make and have MANY many numbers of crashes. I have told you and many others about getting Insurance for there jets, To date, Only ONE........ ONE person has made the call...... Why is this????? Why, won't people call to find out the truth???? It maybe that they think they know it all and have decided that there is NO WAY..... WELL... They are wrong!! I would be happy to REPOST this information and again, to just see how many actually call!!!!! Andy, Do yourself a favor and call..... It makes it easier to fly your jets!!!
I understand what you are saying....BUT...... Now "YOU" as a CD could be sued for Discrimination! you know it will happen.....
I have been working on my FEJ, Yes... The one I have for sale, and I have completely redone the Whole tail section and elevator's. Not much left in there of there's..... I know I sell FEJ, Haven't sold one yet, ....BUT... I can tell you that If I WERE to sell one It would have to be the ones that don't have a history..... Just being honest! When I ordered my jet I asked for pictures as they built it and before they put the parts together.... I did get some pictures from them.....
To Ban ALL FEJ, That won't happen because there is "No Proof" that ALL FEJ are bad, Am I correct?? You would have to have a list if EVERY jet they make and have MANY many numbers of crashes. I have told you and many others about getting Insurance for there jets, To date, Only ONE........ ONE person has made the call...... Why is this????? Why, won't people call to find out the truth???? It maybe that they think they know it all and have decided that there is NO WAY..... WELL... They are wrong!! I would be happy to REPOST this information and again, to just see how many actually call!!!!! Andy, Do yourself a favor and call..... It makes it easier to fly your jets!!!
Like I said, if FEJ or anyone else has a KNOWN defective airframe CD's should ban that airframe from flying in the show.... PERIOD.
CD's and pilots already risk a lawsuit if personal harm or property damage is caused by a jet. Knowingly allowing these defective airframes to participate in an event assures that the plaintiff will receive maximum judgement available under law. Whether through negligence or even gross negligence which can be punitive other than monetary, it doesn't matter. I would be very careful if I were a CD at an event, especially with all of the RCU and Youtube evidence out there that could be used in court to prove a case.
CD's and pilots already risk a lawsuit if personal harm or property damage is caused by a jet. Knowingly allowing these defective airframes to participate in an event assures that the plaintiff will receive maximum judgement available under law. Whether through negligence or even gross negligence which can be punitive other than monetary, it doesn't matter. I would be very careful if I were a CD at an event, especially with all of the RCU and Youtube evidence out there that could be used in court to prove a case.
09-22-2013, 03:43 PM
#250
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This is because the Government and laws forbid you to do it!! There are no laws like this in China and other countries.
In my work which is a US company we own all our suppliers many of which are in Germany. With health and safety as strict as it is there would undoubtedly be court cases if we as a company put out products that we know could fail but more importantly end up killing someone due to the design.
In my work which is a US company we own all our suppliers many of which are in Germany. With health and safety as strict as it is there would undoubtedly be court cases if we as a company put out products that we know could fail but more importantly end up killing someone due to the design.