WREN UNPROFESIONAL ... 160 Broken
10-09-2013, 06:24 AM
#26
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LOL....his talent level IS Wren's business and since it's THEIR playground (and rules), either he abides by their rules or goes and finds a new place to play. There are two reasons they don't sell to the public. One being they honor their relationships with their retail clients and agree not to sell direct to the public or they believe that this repair should be done strictly by their licensed and trained professionals. More than likely they didn't cave into his idle threats and sell parts to novices or people with 4 year old engines demanding they violate their rules merely for his benefit.
It still has nothing to do with Spain's economy, lol.
It still has nothing to do with Spain's economy, lol.
10-09-2013, 06:45 AM
#27
LOL....his talent level IS Wren's business and since it's THEIR playground (and rules), either he abides by their rules or goes and finds a new place to play. There are two reasons they don't sell to the public. One being they honor their relationships with their retail clients and agree not to sell direct to the public or they believe that this repair should be done strictly by their licensed and trained professionals. More than likely they didn't cave into his idle threats and sell parts to novices or people with 4 year old engines demanding they violate their rules merely for his benefit.
It still has nothing to do with Spain's economy, lol.
It still has nothing to do with Spain's economy, lol.
Enlighten us, what has been your experience repairing turbine engines? How far inside did you get before asking for help? Tell me, how complicated is a turbine engine?
10-09-2013, 07:10 AM
#28
So which other turbine brands will sell anyone that asks for it a compressor wheel?
When you buy a part for your Mercedes and it does not fix the problem do you run to the internet and say bad things about Mercedes?
Sure you can but a part for your Mercedes, try to buy just the bad component in that assembly, I'll bet Mercedes will not sell it to you either. There are some things that are just not worth the hassle of selling as a separate part. Often times the part that is obviously bad is not the cause of a problem but the symptom of the real problem. You replace the obviously bad part and the same problem comes right back because the real problem was not found and/or fixed.
So far all of my turbines are other brands, there is a high probability that my next turbine will be a Wren. Their service reputation is one of the reasons.
When you buy a part for your Mercedes and it does not fix the problem do you run to the internet and say bad things about Mercedes?
Sure you can but a part for your Mercedes, try to buy just the bad component in that assembly, I'll bet Mercedes will not sell it to you either. There are some things that are just not worth the hassle of selling as a separate part. Often times the part that is obviously bad is not the cause of a problem but the symptom of the real problem. You replace the obviously bad part and the same problem comes right back because the real problem was not found and/or fixed.
So far all of my turbines are other brands, there is a high probability that my next turbine will be a Wren. Their service reputation is one of the reasons.
10-09-2013, 07:13 AM
#29
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This is not a money question, in fact, I´m going to buy a NEW turbine, instead of repair the wren, with more than twice the cost of the reparation. The reason is very clear, I have had a turbine whell failure, with 8 hours running time ( as other wren 160 ), and what happends after 8 more ? another turbine whell? and another 1000 € repairing? Maybe yes, maybe not.. hwo knows.
Wren told me that I have had very very bad luck with my turbine, ok, I could belive it, but, why don´t you SELL me a turbine wheel to try to help me with my bad luck? I have a friend that actually CAN repair and balance turbines, ( and he have repaired docens of them). All should be on my own responsability!!. I know that this are not the Wren rules, and I can understand it, but I paid for a turbine, that was supposed to be well designed, and now I have an expensive wheight paper, how if I want to repair, I have to pay more than 1000 €... untill the following 8 hours?I don´t know, but I don´t want to test it.. I can try it for the price of a turbine wheel, but not for the price of a expensive repairing.
I only try to explain the facts, it´s not normal that wren sell spare parts for the 160, ok, but it´s not normal that an engine explodes with 8 hours, and the ONLY thing that I asked, was " sell me a turbine whell", and the answer was "not". Ok, Thank you for your help !!
I will post the video soon.
Wren told me that I have had very very bad luck with my turbine, ok, I could belive it, but, why don´t you SELL me a turbine wheel to try to help me with my bad luck? I have a friend that actually CAN repair and balance turbines, ( and he have repaired docens of them). All should be on my own responsability!!. I know that this are not the Wren rules, and I can understand it, but I paid for a turbine, that was supposed to be well designed, and now I have an expensive wheight paper, how if I want to repair, I have to pay more than 1000 €... untill the following 8 hours?I don´t know, but I don´t want to test it.. I can try it for the price of a turbine wheel, but not for the price of a expensive repairing.
I only try to explain the facts, it´s not normal that wren sell spare parts for the 160, ok, but it´s not normal that an engine explodes with 8 hours, and the ONLY thing that I asked, was " sell me a turbine whell", and the answer was "not". Ok, Thank you for your help !!
I will post the video soon.
10-09-2013, 10:04 AM
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Speaking about unprofessional.....IMHO this is a UNPROFESSIONAL answer and speaking about spanish economy.........better I close my mouth. Do you understand me?
BR
Jesus A. Serrano
BR
Jesus A. Serrano
Last edited by AVIOJET; 10-09-2013 at 10:08 AM.
10-09-2013, 11:42 AM
#32
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There are some things that are just not worth the hassle of selling as a separate part. Often times the part that is obviously bad is not the cause of a problem but the symptom of the real problem. You replace the obviously bad part and the same problem comes right back because the real problem was not found and/or fixed.
10-09-2013, 12:43 PM
#33
I dont think its a case of wren wont sell him a wheel, its that they dont have any 160 wheels to sell. I have been wanting a wheel for my 160 and wren uk say they dont have any. the 160 is a dog of a motor, mine is on its 3rd rebuild in as many hours, Now i will say Ron was good, and sold me parts for the turbine so i cant find any excuse to say about his service, he sent me the replacment parts before i had paid for them.
This is more about how crap the 160 is and the fact we have to keep paying to fix a engine that shouldnt keep exploding. The story on my engine is the first one destroyed itself after 5 or so hours, ron replaced it with a new one which to went bang after 2 hours, sold me replacment parts for it (around 1k i think) and now i cant get a turbine wheel for it so its sitting as a door stop, i guess where it will stay!
This is more about how crap the 160 is and the fact we have to keep paying to fix a engine that shouldnt keep exploding. The story on my engine is the first one destroyed itself after 5 or so hours, ron replaced it with a new one which to went bang after 2 hours, sold me replacment parts for it (around 1k i think) and now i cant get a turbine wheel for it so its sitting as a door stop, i guess where it will stay!
10-09-2013, 03:01 PM
#34
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Jeeze.......I am getting tired of all the claims that the Wren 160 is a dog of a Motor.........First off It is NOT a motor. Motors are Electric. It is an Engine.
I have had one since 2009, when they first came out. Ron has done all the up grades including the Compressor wheel (Which had a tendicey to develop cracks. Mine wasn't cracked, he replaced it any wa,y before it did) Converting to Kero start with a new ECU. All at a reasonable cost. I have been flying it all summer on a KIngCat with NO problems. Starts and runs flawless and puts out 36lbs of thrust.
If you want your 160 to run right, send it to Ron and he will fix it. Otherwise use it for an expensive paper weight...............
I have had one since 2009, when they first came out. Ron has done all the up grades including the Compressor wheel (Which had a tendicey to develop cracks. Mine wasn't cracked, he replaced it any wa,y before it did) Converting to Kero start with a new ECU. All at a reasonable cost. I have been flying it all summer on a KIngCat with NO problems. Starts and runs flawless and puts out 36lbs of thrust.
If you want your 160 to run right, send it to Ron and he will fix it. Otherwise use it for an expensive paper weight...............
10-09-2013, 04:33 PM
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Everybody has their own definition of what is a good service or not...I had recently a failure of my keroburner on my wren44, still under warranty and only 180mins of run...I also had a lube tube failure. Wren reply was that the keroburner is not covered by warranty and are prone to fail because of heli vibration (it a 44 heli engine) and their engineer also request that i replace the lube tube by the updated version, larger tubing with fitting , more heat resistant. I had to pay for both items, cost me 280$ cad including shipping. I got everything back in a running condition in less than a week. In one point of view, it's really good service, but on the other, i never spend any $$ on any of my 4 others engines in the last 5 years......
10-09-2013, 06:17 PM
#36
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This is tough position for everybody. The 160 is known to have compressor failures- so why would the factory want somebody installing a new one on their own? If it fails again who is at fault then? Or if it craps out at an event and gets some bad press for wren. Cant blame the factory for not selling the parts only. In reality I doubt wren is charging that much for the labor and most of the $1000 is in parts. Suck it up send it in or pitch it and try another brand. Sucks but oh well.....
10-09-2013, 08:42 PM
#37
I had a Wren 160 that destroyed itself in the air. It didn't have many hours on it, but was out of warranty. I sent it back to Wren.
Wren said it was too badly damaged to repair & sent me a new one, free of charge.
I thought the service I received was very professional.
Wren said it was too badly damaged to repair & sent me a new one, free of charge.
I thought the service I received was very professional.
10-09-2013, 11:05 PM
#38
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Ive owned three wren turbines, all ran sweet and I had nothing but praise for Wren and their service on the few occasions i had cause to call them.
I did however look into buying a second hand 160 and had a long chat to Wren about the "issues" the compressor wheel was having. It wasn't a few cracks, it was the compressor failing spectacularly. Hence they changed to a new CNC formed compressor and I don't believe were seeing failures of that.
I asked if they had considered a recall of the engines with the early compressors, and they said that as they were not all failing they weren't going to do so. They did say that i would have the option of paying to upgrade the wheel now, or they would repair the engine if it failed. ( They didn't mention the associated cost of the model you probably lost)
They did quote the failure rate, and Im not about to divulge that here, as i get the impression that was confidential and I maybe misheard the figure. ( Benefit of the doubt)
At that point I decided not to buy another engine from Wren- if they wouldnt recall for a failure of the frequency they quoted, then Im not sure if they ever would.
I've listened to the Wren guys at Jetpower, and as you'd assume, their tech knowledge is amazing. Its fascinating to listen to them and their plans- I learned a lot.
I like the 3 wren motors Ive owned, they have served me well, but after discussing the 160 with them, and their attitude towards recalls, I'd need some persuading before i buy another.
I did however look into buying a second hand 160 and had a long chat to Wren about the "issues" the compressor wheel was having. It wasn't a few cracks, it was the compressor failing spectacularly. Hence they changed to a new CNC formed compressor and I don't believe were seeing failures of that.
I asked if they had considered a recall of the engines with the early compressors, and they said that as they were not all failing they weren't going to do so. They did say that i would have the option of paying to upgrade the wheel now, or they would repair the engine if it failed. ( They didn't mention the associated cost of the model you probably lost)
They did quote the failure rate, and Im not about to divulge that here, as i get the impression that was confidential and I maybe misheard the figure. ( Benefit of the doubt)
At that point I decided not to buy another engine from Wren- if they wouldnt recall for a failure of the frequency they quoted, then Im not sure if they ever would.
I've listened to the Wren guys at Jetpower, and as you'd assume, their tech knowledge is amazing. Its fascinating to listen to them and their plans- I learned a lot.
I like the 3 wren motors Ive owned, they have served me well, but after discussing the 160 with them, and their attitude towards recalls, I'd need some persuading before i buy another.
10-09-2013, 11:22 PM
#40
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Aside possible problems with the Wren 169.... it is the LAW!.
I do not know in USA but in Europe manufacturers MUST sell ALL service parts for ALL the articles they sell even for 5 years after it is discontinued.
If Wren or JetCAT doesn´t sell service parts to their users they are not complying European Consumer´s laws and may be judge reported. It is now quite costly in Spain due to official taxes and attorney costs but it may done. I suppose the firms take advantage of that for not supplying the requested spare parts.
I do have personal experience on the matter as I work for the official FUTABA service in Spain and we are continuosly asked for parts -sold through model shops, not directly to the modelers as we also honor the model shop bussiness- and we ALWAYS let very clear that spare parts sold have NO WARRANTY on the own part and the repaired equippment.
Best Regards,
Jesus Cardin
I do not know in USA but in Europe manufacturers MUST sell ALL service parts for ALL the articles they sell even for 5 years after it is discontinued.
If Wren or JetCAT doesn´t sell service parts to their users they are not complying European Consumer´s laws and may be judge reported. It is now quite costly in Spain due to official taxes and attorney costs but it may done. I suppose the firms take advantage of that for not supplying the requested spare parts.
I do have personal experience on the matter as I work for the official FUTABA service in Spain and we are continuosly asked for parts -sold through model shops, not directly to the modelers as we also honor the model shop bussiness- and we ALWAYS let very clear that spare parts sold have NO WARRANTY on the own part and the repaired equippment.
Best Regards,
Jesus Cardin
Last edited by jescardin; 10-09-2013 at 11:24 PM.
10-10-2013, 02:27 AM
#41
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I had a Wren 160 that destroyed itself in the air. It didn't have many hours on it, but was out of warranty. I sent it back to Wren.
Wren said it was too badly damaged to repair & sent me a new one, free of charge.
I thought the service I received was very professional.
Wren said it was too badly damaged to repair & sent me a new one, free of charge.
I thought the service I received was very professional.
Yes, Jim, I know..
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-j...-explodes.html
And you was criticized to post it in the forum before the final result from Wren.. I have post the issue before to know that the only way to fix my turbine is to send it to wren and pay for that.....you was very lucky man!
And now I have read that the wren 160 had compressor problems too ? Oh my god !!
https://vimeo.com/76596676
10-10-2013, 05:06 AM
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Add me to the list of the unhappy wren owner. Had my 160 "upgraded" compressor wheel fail 4 hours into its life. Ron is a friendly great guy to deal with......untill you disagree with him and then he yells, rants called me names and hung up on me. Took a big loss and sold turbine. Will NEVER deal with Wren agian.
Brian
Brian
10-10-2013, 05:23 AM
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I have removed a number of posts from this thread because of the comments they contained.
Please remember our rules, it is not acceptable to make personal attacks on other RCU members.
Please remember our rules, it is not acceptable to make personal attacks on other RCU members.
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Last edited by j.duncker; 10-10-2013 at 05:34 AM.
10-10-2013, 05:38 AM
#45
10-10-2013, 06:01 AM
#46
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Brian,
See above post that you made 1-1-2011
QUOTE=bigbri;11635419]I am idiot number 4 "upgraded" compressor wheel on my 160 failed 4 hours into its life. Tried to post my experience with Ron. But it was censored by RCU moderator.[/QUOTE]
See above post that you made 1-1-2011
QUOTE=bigbri;11635419]I am idiot number 4 "upgraded" compressor wheel on my 160 failed 4 hours into its life. Tried to post my experience with Ron. But it was censored by RCU moderator.[/QUOTE]
10-10-2013, 06:22 AM
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Ron bashes me in another thread and that's ok. My post keep getting censored? I don't understand?
lets try this agian
* Ibuy zero time but out of warranty 160 on RCU
* doesn't start! send it to Ron. He repairs it and returns it. awesome start to our relationship!
*When it comes back it has new machined compressor wheel. He tells me old wheels failing at high rate. There is not a recall but all 160 that come back get upgrade for free. awesome again,
*New "upgraded" compressor wheel fails just over 4 hours into its service life. return to wren? Ron admits still a problem with early upgraded machined compressor wheels. After some deliberation wren does repair motor under warranty? but now the fix is to lower top RPM by 3000 lowering power output.
Ron tells me latest design of upgraded compressor wheel results in more power at lower RPM with better fuel economy. LOL subsequent flight reveal this in not true? lower RPM just result in much lower power output, but yes better fuel economy.....lower power output after all usually does equal better fuel economy so this makes sense.
*now Ron's temper comes out? I get turbine bac. Install in back in aircraft just in time to go to event. Once at event newly rebuilt 160 will not start. there is a wren rep there with me during the whole process, we try a few different things? no luck even getting it to kick. I explain to the wren rep I drove. 7 hours to fly. it was a perfect day and I had two other jets to fly that had turbines that will start. I put wren powered jet away and flew my other jets all morning!
*Later that same day wren rep comes up to me he has Ron on the phone and they want to try some stuff to get 160 running. I agree. We end up bypassing propane solenoid and starting it direct from powermax. Ron and rep tell me to continue running 160 starting it this way. then return it after the weekend.
*I do this very successfully. I return turbine to Ron. He sends it back to me a few weeks later. He replaces a few items including one main bearing, EGV and propane needle assembly. In the box are two pieces of paper. One says " with my compliments " and another is a bill for over 500 dollars. I am confused. Sooooo I call Ron. I don't understand "with my compliments to me implies it is a free repair, but bill implies it is not. I just need clarification. Before I can say too much? Ron start to yell at me over the phone.
*He tells me I put too much propane through turbine ruining all those components, also start yelling at me telling me I am an idiot. tells me He is sick of dealing with me. Tells to to rip up invoice but never bother him again....and then hangs up on me....
I fly a LOT. I burn over a hundred gallons of jet-a. A year. I never run propane selenoid on my jetcat turbines and always have clean starts. I was just starting 160 wren for one weekend notusing propane solenoid and this was under recommendation of Ron and wren Rep. If this extensive damage was possible They should have told me and I never would have flown the jet? That being said I now had a Turbine that I could no longer get serviced. At this point I was able to sell it to a Wren rep at a loss to me and a season of headaches.
Best
brian
lets try this agian
* Ibuy zero time but out of warranty 160 on RCU
* doesn't start! send it to Ron. He repairs it and returns it. awesome start to our relationship!
*When it comes back it has new machined compressor wheel. He tells me old wheels failing at high rate. There is not a recall but all 160 that come back get upgrade for free. awesome again,
*New "upgraded" compressor wheel fails just over 4 hours into its service life. return to wren? Ron admits still a problem with early upgraded machined compressor wheels. After some deliberation wren does repair motor under warranty? but now the fix is to lower top RPM by 3000 lowering power output.
Ron tells me latest design of upgraded compressor wheel results in more power at lower RPM with better fuel economy. LOL subsequent flight reveal this in not true? lower RPM just result in much lower power output, but yes better fuel economy.....lower power output after all usually does equal better fuel economy so this makes sense.
*now Ron's temper comes out? I get turbine bac. Install in back in aircraft just in time to go to event. Once at event newly rebuilt 160 will not start. there is a wren rep there with me during the whole process, we try a few different things? no luck even getting it to kick. I explain to the wren rep I drove. 7 hours to fly. it was a perfect day and I had two other jets to fly that had turbines that will start. I put wren powered jet away and flew my other jets all morning!
*Later that same day wren rep comes up to me he has Ron on the phone and they want to try some stuff to get 160 running. I agree. We end up bypassing propane solenoid and starting it direct from powermax. Ron and rep tell me to continue running 160 starting it this way. then return it after the weekend.
*I do this very successfully. I return turbine to Ron. He sends it back to me a few weeks later. He replaces a few items including one main bearing, EGV and propane needle assembly. In the box are two pieces of paper. One says " with my compliments " and another is a bill for over 500 dollars. I am confused. Sooooo I call Ron. I don't understand "with my compliments to me implies it is a free repair, but bill implies it is not. I just need clarification. Before I can say too much? Ron start to yell at me over the phone.
*He tells me I put too much propane through turbine ruining all those components, also start yelling at me telling me I am an idiot. tells me He is sick of dealing with me. Tells to to rip up invoice but never bother him again....and then hangs up on me....
I fly a LOT. I burn over a hundred gallons of jet-a. A year. I never run propane selenoid on my jetcat turbines and always have clean starts. I was just starting 160 wren for one weekend notusing propane solenoid and this was under recommendation of Ron and wren Rep. If this extensive damage was possible They should have told me and I never would have flown the jet? That being said I now had a Turbine that I could no longer get serviced. At this point I was able to sell it to a Wren rep at a loss to me and a season of headaches.
Best
brian
Last edited by bigbri; 10-10-2013 at 07:03 AM.
10-10-2013, 07:58 AM
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They replaced a defective unsafe compressor wheel with an unsafe defective wheel. Does it matter. Wren knew their compressor wheels were prone to failure and never issued a recall or a warning to reduce RPM. This is a HUGE safety issue! Shame on them
Last edited by bigbri; 10-10-2013 at 08:17 AM.