Petition to Ban Fly Eagle Jets in North America
10-09-2013, 04:12 AM
#76
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I'm not a jet pilot but out of curiosity I've been following the threads on FEJ for the past 3 + years. It amazes the hell out of me that with all the CONSTANT, UNANIMOUS, and REPETITIVE, criticism, berating, lecturing, and disgust regarding FEJ, that now all I see is a complete about face and "hands off" attitude regarding someone's effort to keep these unsafe and potentially deadly aircraft from being allowed at our events?
This is so typical of what has become the demise of this great country we live in with the "let's let someone else handle the responsibility" attitude. It seems to me that no one wants to jump on board for fear of some mythical excuse that by a union of model aircraft pilots, we make a statement to not just the manufacturer but to the community itself that we care about the quality of the airplanes in our hobby. Certainly this effort tells not only naïve buyers but John Q Public as a whole we won't stand for any supplier anywhere making unsafe aircraft when time and time again they have been proven to be substandard construction with little to no effort to change their quality of construction.
I get the impression that since obviously FEJ makes a VERY LARGE supportive contribution to these events that we're supposed to turn a blind eye to this ongoing problem because certainly we wouldn't want to "rock the boat" and shoot out sponsor in the foot" would we? God FORBID THAT! How in the world are we going to have these events if we make an effort to stop faulty aircrafts from being flown at them?
Just because they might make a good looking aircraft and some of their planes fly great, I have read enough bashing of their models to know that as a group, something such as this petition would set them on their heels as well as tell other manufacturers that we need quality built airframes that will stand up to normal flying maneuvers. These AREN'T 40 sized trainers people. This is an aircraft with highly volatile fuel, size and weight in which to cause serious harm or death very easily.
Again, it's very strange that even some of those that have squawked loudest have backed off completely and turned face. Very strange indeed. Another nail in the coffin of the morals of this country because we don't want our name to show up on a list telling people we are fighting for what we believe is right. Total complacency at it's best. WOW.
Maybe because I'm not a jet pilot I shouldn't have the right to insert my opinion but I was totally shocked to see all the tucked tails on this one. How discouraging. How gutless.
Ok folks, start throwing stones.
This is so typical of what has become the demise of this great country we live in with the "let's let someone else handle the responsibility" attitude. It seems to me that no one wants to jump on board for fear of some mythical excuse that by a union of model aircraft pilots, we make a statement to not just the manufacturer but to the community itself that we care about the quality of the airplanes in our hobby. Certainly this effort tells not only naïve buyers but John Q Public as a whole we won't stand for any supplier anywhere making unsafe aircraft when time and time again they have been proven to be substandard construction with little to no effort to change their quality of construction.
I get the impression that since obviously FEJ makes a VERY LARGE supportive contribution to these events that we're supposed to turn a blind eye to this ongoing problem because certainly we wouldn't want to "rock the boat" and shoot out sponsor in the foot" would we? God FORBID THAT! How in the world are we going to have these events if we make an effort to stop faulty aircrafts from being flown at them?
Just because they might make a good looking aircraft and some of their planes fly great, I have read enough bashing of their models to know that as a group, something such as this petition would set them on their heels as well as tell other manufacturers that we need quality built airframes that will stand up to normal flying maneuvers. These AREN'T 40 sized trainers people. This is an aircraft with highly volatile fuel, size and weight in which to cause serious harm or death very easily.
Again, it's very strange that even some of those that have squawked loudest have backed off completely and turned face. Very strange indeed. Another nail in the coffin of the morals of this country because we don't want our name to show up on a list telling people we are fighting for what we believe is right. Total complacency at it's best. WOW.
Maybe because I'm not a jet pilot I shouldn't have the right to insert my opinion but I was totally shocked to see all the tucked tails on this one. How discouraging. How gutless.
Ok folks, start throwing stones.
It's like they are saying, "Shhhhh ... don't let anyone know how dangerous these things are. Don't bring attention to us."
This is exactly the same mentality as a few kids in the basement who are playing with gunpowder. While one of them is working near an open flame, another knows better than to do that, and warns him of the dangers, and threatens to tell mom and dad. But the others chime in, in favor of the kid working wrecklessly using the excuse, "You'll get us in trouble!"
And then the house blows up!
Banning FEJ in the USA (or North America) is a good idea whose time has come.
It's time to poop or get off the toilet.
Last edited by BobbyMcGee; 10-09-2013 at 04:18 AM.
10-09-2013, 04:22 AM
#77
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For those afraid of signing the petition because you may think your name and address would be visible to all, just un-check the little box at the bottom. Then you will be anonymous, and no one can see your information.
For those afraid of signing the petition because you may think your name and address would be visible to all, just un-check the little box at the bottom. Then you will be anonymous, and no one can see your information.
10-09-2013, 06:01 AM
#78
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Bobby,
Had Shlitz posted his petition on this forum, within our community, he undoubtedly would have found many to sign and agree. Those of us who disagree are not disagreeing with the concept of banning FEJ, we disagree with his chosen method to take the petition outside of our community, thereby inviting over reaching government intrusion.
Your over the top, attacking commentary is a perfect example of what can occur when people, not personally vested in a positive outcome, are given free rein to interfere.
David S
Had Shlitz posted his petition on this forum, within our community, he undoubtedly would have found many to sign and agree. Those of us who disagree are not disagreeing with the concept of banning FEJ, we disagree with his chosen method to take the petition outside of our community, thereby inviting over reaching government intrusion.
Your over the top, attacking commentary is a perfect example of what can occur when people, not personally vested in a positive outcome, are given free rein to interfere.
David S
10-09-2013, 09:46 AM
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David,
I’ve been in this hobby for many years. I have seen this issue kicked around for several years while nothing is ever done about it, nor is any progress made. Someone starts talking about it, the topic is discussed for a few weeks, then disappears. Sometime later, it starts again, but at “square one” all over again! This process is repeated time and time again. In the end, nothing has ever been done. And now, we are here again. But this time, someone had decided to take the initiative with a petition, and you guys shout, “wait.”
It is obvious the jet community cannot police itself, agree on anything, nor be proactive. No entity can police itself. Especially one that bickers for years without doing anything, then wants to hide the “dangers” from each other, as well as others! That process of doing nothing keeps people at risk. How is that proactive or responsible? When someone is injured or killed, do you want your response to be, “We talked about it for years, but couldn’t make a decision, and wanted to keep the risks out of the public eye.”
Since it is obvious the jet community (at least the twenty or so regulars on RCU) cannot agree on anything, and have been kicking this around for years while the situation is getting obviously more risky, someone does need to step in and do something to secure the safety of the community. That being; the pilots, the spectators, and the people who live near where these jets are flown. The few people on here that post regularly cannot speak for hundreds or thousands of other jet owners that don’t post onto this site. This is not a dictatorship ruled by the regulars who post here. We can’t have the fox guarding the hen house.
If that means taking it outside the twenty (or so) people who regularly post on these forums, then so be it. After all, who is also likely to be killed or severely injured by one of these jets coming apart at 150+ mph … a spectator or a member of the nearby community whose house or property the jet hits. Are you going to tell them, “Hey, you’re not allowed to sue me because you are not a member of our exclusive jet community!”
And who are you saying does not have a vested interest in the outcome … me? I own two jets. I don’t want irresponsible people who would allow dangerous jets to fly to negatively affect my interest.
Do the spectators not have a vested interest in safety? Then force them to sign a waiver that would notify them that some jets may be flown that may or may not have KNOWN safety issues, and that they enter at their own risk of severe injury or death.
1 - My statements are not “over the top.” They are what can actually happen.
2 – I do have a vested interest … I own jets
3 – Just because I don’t go to every event, post regularly on this site, or are unknown to you, (as you are unknown to me), does not give you the right to assume I have no vested interest. There are hundreds or thousands of us who fly jets that do not go to events or post on RCU. That is not a requirement.
Would you like to be on the witness stand when a lawyer asks you, “So, you knew these jets were dangerous/defective, yet you failed to take any action for years, and wanted to keep this out of the public-eye for fear of being what you would consider as unfair regulation by a non-interested party. And that non-interested party being the community at large as well as any spectator who shows up at these jet events, even children?”
The answer is simple. Ban certain defective FEJ jets in the interest of safety BEFORE someone is severely injured or killed ... BEFORE it gets in the public eye ... To me, that is responsible, and the best course of action for the time being. REGARDLESS of hurting someone's feelings by not allowing them to fly their jet in front of sepctators.
Would you rather risk killing someone or causing major property damage, or hurt someone's feelings by not letting them fly?
I’ve been in this hobby for many years. I have seen this issue kicked around for several years while nothing is ever done about it, nor is any progress made. Someone starts talking about it, the topic is discussed for a few weeks, then disappears. Sometime later, it starts again, but at “square one” all over again! This process is repeated time and time again. In the end, nothing has ever been done. And now, we are here again. But this time, someone had decided to take the initiative with a petition, and you guys shout, “wait.”
It is obvious the jet community cannot police itself, agree on anything, nor be proactive. No entity can police itself. Especially one that bickers for years without doing anything, then wants to hide the “dangers” from each other, as well as others! That process of doing nothing keeps people at risk. How is that proactive or responsible? When someone is injured or killed, do you want your response to be, “We talked about it for years, but couldn’t make a decision, and wanted to keep the risks out of the public eye.”
Since it is obvious the jet community (at least the twenty or so regulars on RCU) cannot agree on anything, and have been kicking this around for years while the situation is getting obviously more risky, someone does need to step in and do something to secure the safety of the community. That being; the pilots, the spectators, and the people who live near where these jets are flown. The few people on here that post regularly cannot speak for hundreds or thousands of other jet owners that don’t post onto this site. This is not a dictatorship ruled by the regulars who post here. We can’t have the fox guarding the hen house.
If that means taking it outside the twenty (or so) people who regularly post on these forums, then so be it. After all, who is also likely to be killed or severely injured by one of these jets coming apart at 150+ mph … a spectator or a member of the nearby community whose house or property the jet hits. Are you going to tell them, “Hey, you’re not allowed to sue me because you are not a member of our exclusive jet community!”
And who are you saying does not have a vested interest in the outcome … me? I own two jets. I don’t want irresponsible people who would allow dangerous jets to fly to negatively affect my interest.
Do the spectators not have a vested interest in safety? Then force them to sign a waiver that would notify them that some jets may be flown that may or may not have KNOWN safety issues, and that they enter at their own risk of severe injury or death.
1 - My statements are not “over the top.” They are what can actually happen.
2 – I do have a vested interest … I own jets
3 – Just because I don’t go to every event, post regularly on this site, or are unknown to you, (as you are unknown to me), does not give you the right to assume I have no vested interest. There are hundreds or thousands of us who fly jets that do not go to events or post on RCU. That is not a requirement.
Would you like to be on the witness stand when a lawyer asks you, “So, you knew these jets were dangerous/defective, yet you failed to take any action for years, and wanted to keep this out of the public-eye for fear of being what you would consider as unfair regulation by a non-interested party. And that non-interested party being the community at large as well as any spectator who shows up at these jet events, even children?”
The answer is simple. Ban certain defective FEJ jets in the interest of safety BEFORE someone is severely injured or killed ... BEFORE it gets in the public eye ... To me, that is responsible, and the best course of action for the time being. REGARDLESS of hurting someone's feelings by not allowing them to fly their jet in front of sepctators.
Would you rather risk killing someone or causing major property damage, or hurt someone's feelings by not letting them fly?
Last edited by BobbyMcGee; 10-09-2013 at 10:04 AM.
10-09-2013, 10:02 AM
#81
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David,
I’ve been in this hobby for many years. I have seen this issue kicked around for several years while nothing is ever done about it, nor is any progress made. Someone starts talking about it, the topic is discussed for a few weeks, then disappears. Sometime later, it starts again, but at “square one” all over again! This process is repeated time and time again. In the end, nothing has ever been done. And now, we are here again. But this time, someone had decided to take the initiative with a petition, and you guys shout, “wait.”
It is obvious the jet community cannot police itself, agree on anything, nor be proactive. No entity can police itself. Especially one that bickers for years without doing anything, then wants to hide the “dangers” from each other, as well as others! That process of doing nothing keeps people at risk. How is that proactive or responsible? When someone is injured or killed, do you want your response to be, “We talked about it for years, but couldn’t make a decision, and wanted to keep the risks out of the public eye.”
Since it is obvious the jet community (at least the twenty or so regulars on RCU) cannot agree on anything, and have been kicking this around for years while the situation is getting obviously more risky, someone does need to step in and do something to secure the safety of the community. That being; the pilots, the spectators, and the people who live near where these jets are flown. The few people on here that post regularly cannot speak for hundreds or thousands of other jet owners that don’t post onto this site. This is not a dictatorship ruled by the regulars who post here. We can’t have the fox guarding the hen house.
If that means taking it outside the twenty (or so) people who regularly post on these forums, then so be it. After all, who is also likely to be killed or severely injured by one of these jets coming apart at 150+ mph … a spectator or a member of the nearby community whose house or property the jet hits. Are you going to tell them, “Hey, you’re not allowed to sue me because you are not a member of our exclusive jet community!”
And who are you saying does not have a vested interest in the outcome … me? I own two jets. I don’t want irresponsible people who would allow dangerous jets to fly to negatively affect my interest.
Do the spectators not have a vested interest in safety? Then force them to sign a waiver that would notify them that some jets may be flown that may or may not have safety issues, and that they enter at their own risk of severe injury or death.
1 - My statements are not “over the top.” They are what can actually happen.
2 – I do have a vested interest … I own jets
3 – Just because I don’t go to every event, post regularly on this site, or are unknown to you, (as you are unknown to me), does not give you the right to assume I have no vested interest. There are hundreds or thousands of us who fly jets that do not go to events or post on RCU. That is not a requirement.
Would you like to be on the witness stand when a lawyer asks you, “So, you knew these jets were dangerous/defective, yet you failed to take any action for years, and wanted to keep this out of the public-eye for fear of being what you would consider as unfair regulation by a non-interested party. And that non-interested party being the community at large as well as any spectator who shows up at these jet events, even children?”
I’ve been in this hobby for many years. I have seen this issue kicked around for several years while nothing is ever done about it, nor is any progress made. Someone starts talking about it, the topic is discussed for a few weeks, then disappears. Sometime later, it starts again, but at “square one” all over again! This process is repeated time and time again. In the end, nothing has ever been done. And now, we are here again. But this time, someone had decided to take the initiative with a petition, and you guys shout, “wait.”
It is obvious the jet community cannot police itself, agree on anything, nor be proactive. No entity can police itself. Especially one that bickers for years without doing anything, then wants to hide the “dangers” from each other, as well as others! That process of doing nothing keeps people at risk. How is that proactive or responsible? When someone is injured or killed, do you want your response to be, “We talked about it for years, but couldn’t make a decision, and wanted to keep the risks out of the public eye.”
Since it is obvious the jet community (at least the twenty or so regulars on RCU) cannot agree on anything, and have been kicking this around for years while the situation is getting obviously more risky, someone does need to step in and do something to secure the safety of the community. That being; the pilots, the spectators, and the people who live near where these jets are flown. The few people on here that post regularly cannot speak for hundreds or thousands of other jet owners that don’t post onto this site. This is not a dictatorship ruled by the regulars who post here. We can’t have the fox guarding the hen house.
If that means taking it outside the twenty (or so) people who regularly post on these forums, then so be it. After all, who is also likely to be killed or severely injured by one of these jets coming apart at 150+ mph … a spectator or a member of the nearby community whose house or property the jet hits. Are you going to tell them, “Hey, you’re not allowed to sue me because you are not a member of our exclusive jet community!”
And who are you saying does not have a vested interest in the outcome … me? I own two jets. I don’t want irresponsible people who would allow dangerous jets to fly to negatively affect my interest.
Do the spectators not have a vested interest in safety? Then force them to sign a waiver that would notify them that some jets may be flown that may or may not have safety issues, and that they enter at their own risk of severe injury or death.
1 - My statements are not “over the top.” They are what can actually happen.
2 – I do have a vested interest … I own jets
3 – Just because I don’t go to every event, post regularly on this site, or are unknown to you, (as you are unknown to me), does not give you the right to assume I have no vested interest. There are hundreds or thousands of us who fly jets that do not go to events or post on RCU. That is not a requirement.
Would you like to be on the witness stand when a lawyer asks you, “So, you knew these jets were dangerous/defective, yet you failed to take any action for years, and wanted to keep this out of the public-eye for fear of being what you would consider as unfair regulation by a non-interested party. And that non-interested party being the community at large as well as any spectator who shows up at these jet events, even children?”
Perhaps if you did "go to events, post regularly on this site, be known as part of the community," your comments would not be looked at as over the top. You abstain from taking an active part in the conversation for how long? And then jump in and demand your voice be heard above all, give not one positive statement, denigrate the efforts and contributions of those who have participated and then expect your opinions to be welcomed with open arms? Not realistic.
David S
10-09-2013, 10:20 AM
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Really David!!! You dismiss every valid idea and point I (and several others) made simply because you don't know me or the others!? That's how it works? And your only response is that I "go to events and post regularly" before I comment on this issue! REALLY? That sounds like a foolish statement to make. But seeing that mentality from some people on here, I almost expected to hear that! What a shame!!!!
But like I wrote, you guys bicker amongst yourselves for years, shoot down good ideas because they are not your ideas, and don't respect the ideas of others whom are not in your 'click'.
Like I wrote, where is "going to events and posting on this site" a requirement for some of you guys?
Safety is common sense.
Best of luck to you guys. I have better things to do than get involved in this ongoing quarrel. You can reject my ideas and observations (as you probably will), or months from now claim them as your ideas, and enact them. I don't care. Do as you will.
I could come back in three years and see nothing changed. Sorry, but to me, this is a soap opera.
I could not run my business like this.
But like I wrote, you guys bicker amongst yourselves for years, shoot down good ideas because they are not your ideas, and don't respect the ideas of others whom are not in your 'click'.
Like I wrote, where is "going to events and posting on this site" a requirement for some of you guys?
Safety is common sense.
Best of luck to you guys. I have better things to do than get involved in this ongoing quarrel. You can reject my ideas and observations (as you probably will), or months from now claim them as your ideas, and enact them. I don't care. Do as you will.
I could come back in three years and see nothing changed. Sorry, but to me, this is a soap opera.
I could not run my business like this.
Last edited by BobbyMcGee; 10-09-2013 at 02:43 PM.
10-09-2013, 11:06 AM
#83
Individual owners should be taking resposibilty to stop purchasing and flying some of these models. This is what the experienced jet community is saying in my view.
What the jet community doesn't need is some outside entity dictating some policy using "safety" or "someone could get killed" as an excuse to regulate or stop the activity. That would include trying to use the AMA.
So we beat on CDs or others to do something, when individual owners should be taking on the responsibility. And some still aren't for "it won't happen to them".
What the jet community doesn't need is some outside entity dictating some policy using "safety" or "someone could get killed" as an excuse to regulate or stop the activity. That would include trying to use the AMA.
So we beat on CDs or others to do something, when individual owners should be taking on the responsibility. And some still aren't for "it won't happen to them".
10-09-2013, 01:52 PM
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It's funny to me that so many will jump on the bandwagon and bash away, but when it comes to actually putting their name to it.... well now your conviction isn't so strong is it?
Sort of like the smart mouth in traffic that cuts you off, gives you the finger, brake checks you all while safe with his windows up and the doors locked while he runs his yap... Same thing...
On a serious note, have any of you actually stopped and confronted road rage guy with the window up screaming and cursing you while spitting on his own window??? Punching him in the face thru the window is a very gratifying experience I assure you, less the picking of glass shards out of your knuckles...
Sort of like the smart mouth in traffic that cuts you off, gives you the finger, brake checks you all while safe with his windows up and the doors locked while he runs his yap... Same thing...
On a serious note, have any of you actually stopped and confronted road rage guy with the window up screaming and cursing you while spitting on his own window??? Punching him in the face thru the window is a very gratifying experience I assure you, less the picking of glass shards out of your knuckles...
10-09-2013, 02:00 PM
#86
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Bad bad bad. Its a slippery slope .then whats next? Beside this an online petition with no actual signatures.when you have a jet contest just say no to the use of that particular jet.and maybe no one will buy it.
10-09-2013, 02:04 PM
#87
Yep, CD's just need to stop these bombs from flying at events. Case closed.
10-09-2013, 02:37 PM
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I don't have a dog in this fight but, it seems to me that a lawsuit (class action?) might work better than a petition or boycott. If it's as bad as I've read here, then a lot of owners have been duped into buying a dangerously defective product and should at least get their money back. If you have enough evidence to start a petition (which could cause a defamation lawsuit against the signers) you should have enough to support a lawsuit.
RJ
RJ
10-09-2013, 02:44 PM
#89
I have started a petition to ban these people from North America before someone gets killed here is the link if you are interested.
https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitio...-north-america
https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitio...-north-america
And who is going to enforce the "BAN" ??
10-09-2013, 02:48 PM
#90
I don't have a dog in this fight but, it seems to me that a lawsuit (class action?) might work better than a petition or boycott. If it's as bad as I've read here, then a lot of owners have been duped into buying a dangerously defective product and should at least get their money back. If you have enough evidence to start a petition (which could cause a defamation lawsuit against the signers) you should have enough to support a lawsuit.
RJ
RJ
10-09-2013, 02:59 PM
#93
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[QUOTE=rowdyjoe;11635018]I don't have a dog in this fight but, it seems to me that a lawsuit (class action?) might work better than a petition or boycott. If it's as bad as I've read here, then a lot of owners have been duped into buying a dangerously defective product and should at least get their money back. If you have enough evidence to start a petition (which could cause a defamation lawsuit against the signers) you should have enough to support a lawsuit.
And you get what court jurisdiction to handle this lawsuit? Have you ever tried suing an overseas company? Hit them where it hurts. If they can't promote their product at shows and are not present at events, when pilots/spectators ask why, people learn that they sell inferior aircraft and don't warrant their errors.
For those that say this petition is taking this outside our community, their right as all get out. These aircraft out of control can cause harm to spectators, private property. Why shouldn't those outside of being pilots at an event be given the opportunity to vote?
And you get what court jurisdiction to handle this lawsuit? Have you ever tried suing an overseas company? Hit them where it hurts. If they can't promote their product at shows and are not present at events, when pilots/spectators ask why, people learn that they sell inferior aircraft and don't warrant their errors.
For those that say this petition is taking this outside our community, their right as all get out. These aircraft out of control can cause harm to spectators, private property. Why shouldn't those outside of being pilots at an event be given the opportunity to vote?
10-09-2013, 03:17 PM
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And you get what court jurisdiction to handle this lawsuit? Have you ever tried suing an overseas company? Hit them where it hurts. If they can't promote their product at shows and are not present at events, when pilots/spectators ask why, people learn that they sell inferior aircraft and don't warrant their errors.
For those that say this petition is taking this outside our community, their right as all get out. These aircraft out of control can cause harm to spectators, private property. Why shouldn't those outside of being pilots at an event be given the opportunity to vote?
For those that say this petition is taking this outside our community, their right as all get out. These aircraft out of control can cause harm to spectators, private property. Why shouldn't those outside of being pilots at an event be given the opportunity to vote?
If you think people in general are too narrow minded to look at the facts and make a decision that's in EVERYBODY'S best interest, than perhaps you are only interested in flying your planes no matter what the level of safety is, which would in turn make you the narrow minded one.
Last edited by Large Larry; 10-09-2013 at 03:38 PM.
10-09-2013, 04:33 PM
#95
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I find A LOT of irony in this stupid "going to crash into a crowd kill someone" perfect storm crap as justification to call someone out.
Here we have a few instances of helicopters severely injuring bystanders, as well as killing someone and yet all we are concerned about is this drama queen "what if" scenario with jets. A large helicopter, large 3d plane, a jet, all capable of hurting someone if it crashes into a crowd for one of a hundred highly probably reasons up to including airframe failure.
Here we have a few instances of helicopters severely injuring bystanders, as well as killing someone and yet all we are concerned about is this drama queen "what if" scenario with jets. A large helicopter, large 3d plane, a jet, all capable of hurting someone if it crashes into a crowd for one of a hundred highly probably reasons up to including airframe failure.
Last edited by essyou35; 10-09-2013 at 05:37 PM. Reason: Toned down.
10-09-2013, 05:03 PM
#96
To me the much more likely scenario is a crash that causes a big fire and you loose the field. Just because there are 100 (uncontrollable) ways a fire COULD start does not mean you should not address the 1 that is more likely to happen, one that you can control (a faulty design blowing a tail off and crashing under power)
BTW FEJ should state the REAL airspeed they are comfortable with their designs flying at. I think it is maybe 100 mph. I bet at 100 mph you would not see these tails flying off (at least not at this frequency)
BTW FEJ should state the REAL airspeed they are comfortable with their designs flying at. I think it is maybe 100 mph. I bet at 100 mph you would not see these tails flying off (at least not at this frequency)
10-09-2013, 05:11 PM
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10-09-2013, 05:26 PM
#98
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Location: Apple River IL
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Really David!!! You dismiss every valid idea and point I (and several others) made simply because you don't know me or the others!? That's how it works? And your only response is that I "go to events and post regularly" before I comment on this issue! REALLY? That sounds like a foolish statement to make. But seeing that mentality from some people on here, I almost expected to hear that! What a shame!!!!
But like I wrote, you guys bicker amongst yourselves for years, shoot down good ideas because they are not your ideas, and don't respect the ideas of others whom are not in your 'click'.
Like I wrote, where is "going to events and posting on this site" a requirement for some of you guys?
Safety is common sense.
Best of luck to you guys. I have better things to do than get involved in this ongoing quarrel. You can reject my ideas and observations (as you probably will), or months from now claim them as your ideas, and enact them. I don't care. Do as you will.
I could come back in three years and see nothing changed. Sorry, but to me, this is a soap opera.
I could not run my business like this.
But like I wrote, you guys bicker amongst yourselves for years, shoot down good ideas because they are not your ideas, and don't respect the ideas of others whom are not in your 'click'.
Like I wrote, where is "going to events and posting on this site" a requirement for some of you guys?
Safety is common sense.
Best of luck to you guys. I have better things to do than get involved in this ongoing quarrel. You can reject my ideas and observations (as you probably will), or months from now claim them as your ideas, and enact them. I don't care. Do as you will.
I could come back in three years and see nothing changed. Sorry, but to me, this is a soap opera.
I could not run my business like this.
Regarding "safety is common sense"' BobbyM, I have to disagree. If that we're true then the expectation would be that everyone thinks and reacts in a reasonable way without knowing the specific facts. We all know that is not the case. Safety is a system, a compilation of design, hazards, mitigation techniques, risk controls, acceptances, and more (read MIL-STD 882 D for a good description).
For any company to exist, it needs to sell/ service its widgets. If its widgets are unreliable or even dangerous, then spread the word, promote a boycott of said products, then look for measurable results. These products are not available at Waldo- Mart or Targgett, there are no retail buyers who gage consumer attitude, the burden is really going to fall on the end user to decide what to do.
Just the .03 cents of someone who is considering a turbine in the near future.
Hook
10-09-2013, 06:01 PM
#99
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Individual owners should be taking resposibilty to stop purchasing and flying some of these models. This is what the experienced jet community is saying in my view.
What the jet community doesn't need is some outside entity dictating some policy using "safety" or "someone could get killed" as an excuse to regulate or stop the activity. That would include trying to use the AMA.
So we beat on CDs or others to do something, when individual owners should be taking on the responsibility. And some still aren't for "it won't happen to them".
What the jet community doesn't need is some outside entity dictating some policy using "safety" or "someone could get killed" as an excuse to regulate or stop the activity. That would include trying to use the AMA.
So we beat on CDs or others to do something, when individual owners should be taking on the responsibility. And some still aren't for "it won't happen to them".
10-09-2013, 06:18 PM
#100
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You as a modeler can take any FEJ Jet and build it so it is safe. As a modeler you can build any other brand an make a mistake in the build and make it unsafe.
To single out a brand or type and make uneducated foolish judgements based on internet stories is rediculous.
If you want to be constructive do some homework, figure out what will make a plane more reliable and post some useful information.
Does any one really think that a guy who has $6000 or $7000 wrapped up in a jet doesn't care whether or not it crashes? Rediculous! Do you really think FEJ doesn't care if one of their jets crash? Rediculous!
The nature of jets is they are complicated and challenging. That is why we don't fly them over the pits, people or structures! I have seen dozens of jets go in and hundreds of nitro and gassers go in. Mostly it's a dumb thumb and occasionally it's because something breaks or the radio glitches.
EVERY pilot does not want their plane to crash .. It's an awful feeling. The laws of nature bring the poorly built planes to an early demise. No matter who's brand it is.
Guys who propose banning certain brands, certain types of pilots or activities are "The Guys" you wish were never in your club. Always talking but never saying anything you would like to hear. They are usually pretty poor builders and not such great pilots but try an over compensate with a wealth of useless knowledge that they consider themselves experts on. Always criticizing.
Do we want our hobby concerned with Class action suits and lawyers .. yeech .. turns my stomach. Don't we do this crazy hobby to get away from all that garbage?
If you want a hobby that is risk free get into model trains or cars.
If you don't think a product is good -- DON'T BUY IT. It's a free country. If a guy has a plane you don't think is safe either relay a constuctive fix, keep quiet or go home!! Of course if you have flown hundreds of jet flights and NEVER crashed one I guess you then have earned the right to start a petition. Until then, keep it to yourself.
Happy Flying,
Steve
To single out a brand or type and make uneducated foolish judgements based on internet stories is rediculous.
If you want to be constructive do some homework, figure out what will make a plane more reliable and post some useful information.
Does any one really think that a guy who has $6000 or $7000 wrapped up in a jet doesn't care whether or not it crashes? Rediculous! Do you really think FEJ doesn't care if one of their jets crash? Rediculous!
The nature of jets is they are complicated and challenging. That is why we don't fly them over the pits, people or structures! I have seen dozens of jets go in and hundreds of nitro and gassers go in. Mostly it's a dumb thumb and occasionally it's because something breaks or the radio glitches.
EVERY pilot does not want their plane to crash .. It's an awful feeling. The laws of nature bring the poorly built planes to an early demise. No matter who's brand it is.
Guys who propose banning certain brands, certain types of pilots or activities are "The Guys" you wish were never in your club. Always talking but never saying anything you would like to hear. They are usually pretty poor builders and not such great pilots but try an over compensate with a wealth of useless knowledge that they consider themselves experts on. Always criticizing.
Do we want our hobby concerned with Class action suits and lawyers .. yeech .. turns my stomach. Don't we do this crazy hobby to get away from all that garbage?
If you want a hobby that is risk free get into model trains or cars.
If you don't think a product is good -- DON'T BUY IT. It's a free country. If a guy has a plane you don't think is safe either relay a constuctive fix, keep quiet or go home!! Of course if you have flown hundreds of jet flights and NEVER crashed one I guess you then have earned the right to start a petition. Until then, keep it to yourself.
Happy Flying,
Steve