Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > RC Jets
Reload this Page >

Jeti-duplex-ds-16-2.4-ghz

Notices
RC Jets Discuss RC jets in this forum plus rc turbines and ducted fan power systems

Jeti-duplex-ds-16-2.4-ghz

Old 05-27-2014, 03:04 AM
  #976  
mort78
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LA jetguy
As for the display of antenna when you remove one RX... See post 908 and 909 here a few pages back... Goose confirmed my question that under TX 3.0 and RX 3.22 when one RX is removed the info for the other RX is retained on the TX screen...

Hi LA Jetguy,
I read those posts that you are talking about, but my system still doesn't work like that. If I remove one of the RX's connected to the CB200, I get A1,A2,A3,A4 showing 0. But the system is still working. I don't understand why this is happening.
cheers,
Mort
Old 05-27-2014, 04:11 AM
  #977  
lxfly
 
lxfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: LUXEMBOURG
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by mort78
Hi LA Jetguy,
I read those posts that you are talking about, but my system still doesn't work like that. If I remove one of the RX's connected to the CB200, I get A1,A2,A3,A4 showing 0. But the system is still working. I don't understand why this is happening.
cheers,
Mort
Hi Mort,
tuned a CB200 with 2 Sat2 last week but still deedn't fly with it.
But with version 1.11 CB200 is working normally, except that you have the warning on TX 3.0 software. V1.2 should be out this week (as I read).

How did you connect your receivers to the CB, via PPM or EX, with one or 2 cables?

You cannot switch between dual path and teacher/student without modifying receiver modes:
In dual path you have two receivers operating in "normal" mode and bind them seperatly to the 2 TX modules
In teacher/student mode you have one receiver in "normal", and one receiver in "clone" mode , the two binded to one TX module (the other has to be binded to the student TX)

Please check
Old 05-27-2014, 07:25 AM
  #978  
wfield0455
My Feedback: (7)
 
wfield0455's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Holliston, MA
Posts: 1,299
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by mort78
Hi LA Jetguy,
I read those posts that you are talking about, but my system still doesn't work like that. If I remove one of the RX's connected to the CB200, I get A1,A2,A3,A4 showing 0. But the system is still working. I don't understand why this is happening.
cheers,
Mort
Mort,
As LA Jetguy mentions, others that are using V3.0 on their transmitter and V3.22 on their receivers, including myself, have this work correctly. Since you have previously said that you haven't upgraded your receivers to V3.22, I assume that is why you continue to see this issue. However, the system should continue to be safe to fly even though the transmitter and receiver firmware versions don't match. Is there a specific reason why you've chosen not to upgrade your receivers ?
Old 05-27-2014, 07:33 AM
  #979  
wfield0455
My Feedback: (7)
 
wfield0455's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Holliston, MA
Posts: 1,299
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by mort78
Hi guys... the reason I was asking the questions about the firmware update is because I lost my Yak54 the day before yesterday.

I had carried out some flights earlier on in the day, with no trouble. On my next flight, I got airborne and as I rolled inverted, I lost all control of the plane. The controls remained in their current position and the aircraft went in.
I got no signal loss warning on the DS16.

After grabbing the aircraft from the bush, the electronics were all unscathed. Everything was connected as it should. I took it back to the flightline to try and diagnose the problem, but I couldn't find anything wrong at all.
I have the aircraft set up using dual batteries, fed directly to the CB200. I have 2x R7 receivers connected to the CB200. I have since taken all the gear out of the plane, as there was too much damage to the fuse/wings/rudder etc to fix,, but I have tried getting it to fail again, but all appears normal.

One thing I did notice that day. I have used the teacher/student mode before without any dramas. On the day of the accident, I couldn't get the teacher/student mode to work at all. My friends DS16 wouldn't chat with mine.
I gave up after a while and reselected the dual path. Then the accident happened. Coincidence? But the problem now is..... i'm really worried about this happening again. We all spend a lot of time and money building these planes and one of the main reasons I bought the Jeti system is for the reliability of the 4 antenna's. But this proved to be no safer in this instance than my old JR 9X. My friend who was flying his F22 on the same system, similar setup (dual batteries/rx's) refused to fly it until we could work out what was wrong.

When I turn my system on, everything works normally. If I go into the device explorer and select any of the RX's, it tells me to update to 3.20 firmware. I currently have 3.14 in the RX's and 3.00 in the TX. So again, was this incident because of the 2 RX's not having the latest firmware?? It's quite worrying. Any information on this would be greatly appreciated. I have contacted Jeti, but I haven't received a reply as of yet.
Fly safe,
Mort
Mort,

It seems extremely doubtful that your problem was caused by mismatched firmware versions between the transmitter and receivers. Can you please provide more information about your configuration? You mention using R7s connected to the central box. Assuming dual path mode, are they both configured for EX Bus communications, speed set to Auto? Is failsafe set to DISABLED in both of them? Failsafe should only be enabled in the Central Box.
Old 05-27-2014, 01:19 PM
  #980  
gooseF22
 
gooseF22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 2,603
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Mort,

First, Its not recommended to use the Cbox/2 receiver setup in the trainer mode.. Because it requires you to clone the second receiver, and you have to alter the setup too much.. we have said that on here a couple of times.. Its best where there is One receiver doing everything, like an R14, but then a clone can be added..

I suspect one or both issues:

In Dual path, its possible to bind both to the same receiver and not know it..
Is it possible you had failsafe enabled in one or both of the receivers?

It sounds like the Cbox went to failsafe.. So I suspect something in your receiver setup.

We have been flying jets on the Dual Path Dual Receiver setup with no issues..
Old 05-27-2014, 01:20 PM
  #981  
gooseF22
 
gooseF22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 2,603
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by wfield0455
Mort,

It seems extremely doubtful that your problem was caused by mismatched firmware versions between the transmitter and receivers. Can you please provide more information about your configuration? You mention using R7s connected to the central box. Assuming dual path mode, are they both configured for EX Bus communications, speed set to Auto? Is failsafe set to DISABLED in both of them? Failsafe should only be enabled in the Central Box.

I want to Emphasize this point above.. This is critical for the Satellite receivers above....
Old 05-27-2014, 01:26 PM
  #982  
gooseF22
 
gooseF22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 2,603
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

For Standard receivers: If you have the transmitter set to alarm at any loss of receiver, it will blank out the main screen display.. This is why we stagger the setup now


As said in another post, Set the transmitter to alarm at signal level 3, Set the wireless mode to alarm at the loss of the primary receiver only, since the system uses it all the time if its valid..


Central box setup.. you have to set that to loss of any receiver and live with the loss of display.. but the data is in the logger..

The reason is that both receivers are treated as equals, and there is no Port alarm on thru the other receiver, or an alarm if it can't talk to the xbox, if the primary is talking to it..
Old 05-27-2014, 06:01 PM
  #983  
2walla
My Feedback: (10)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: walla walla, WA
Posts: 732
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

So has anyone figured out why Mort lost his plane?
Old 05-27-2014, 07:33 PM
  #984  
gooseF22
 
gooseF22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 2,603
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Without seeing or knowing how the receivers were set up, we can't troubleshoot it..

1. Look to make sure you are dual path to each receiver..
Turn off alarm and unplug each one and see..

2. Check failsafe for each receiver to see if its disabled.. iF not, then you are done... The CBox switched to one of them and it lied to it all the way to the ground.

3. Look at the log data to see what the signal strength was for each receiver at the time of the incident.
See if you can determine which receiver or both gave up the ghost..

4. post your findings and alarm settings
Old 05-27-2014, 07:48 PM
  #985  
mort78
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hi guys,
Many thanks for all your input....

I'll try answer all the questions one by one!

Wfield -
The reason I hadn't updated the RX's to the latest firmware is because in Hong Kong, I have no real space to keep a 2m plane in my apartment. It's just too big. So I leave the plane locked up in a shipping container at the field. So I have 2 options to update my RX's - 1) Bring my laptop to the field and update on site. Or 2) Remove the RX's and update them at home. I just hadn't done either, as the plane was flying around perfectly and the changes in the firmware weren't required in the setup I was using. I got an Email from Jeti and they confirm that there would be no negative effects from flying with a previous firmware.

The setup I was using was : 1x CB200 with 2x R7's connected. The RX's were configured in EX Bus, failsafes disabled on the RX's. Speed was set to auto, as I'm not clever enough to know what it does anyway

Goose -
With regards to the Teacher/Student mode, whilst using the CB200, I must admit I've missed where anyone has said it's not a good idea. I won't play with that in the future.
With regards to the RX signal whilst using the CB200, this explains why I don't see the correct indications on the DS16. This makes sense now. I thought I was going mad, as everyone was saying there's worked but mine didn't. It's obviously because they aren't using it through the CB100/200.

Guys, I have racked my brain over this issue. I can't find the cause of this. I have gone through the settings of each RX and all is set up correctly. The only other thing it could be, but seems extremely doubtful is, I use a Powerbox Gemini battery switch as I like the idea of having dual power in any model. Could something have happened to the switch??? Not sure, but I'm sending it to Powerbox anyway to get checked out before I use it in a new machine. It's just incredibly frustrating not knowing the cause. I wish it was because I had made a mistake in the programming etc because at least I could say... Damn, I won't do that again. But at least I'd know what caused it.

Again thanks for all the input guys!
Old 05-27-2014, 07:53 PM
  #986  
mort78
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I'm going through the log files now.... I must admit, I hadn't checked it. Will post pictures shortly
Old 05-27-2014, 07:54 PM
  #987  
gooseF22
 
gooseF22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 2,603
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

its possible.. just hook your batteries directly to the Cbox if they are the right voltage..
But it takes a really low voltage to make the system drop..below 3.5 volts..

Make sure each tx module is bound to the correct receiver after messing with the student thing.. its because the wireless mode defaults back to the default mode after power off from using teacher/student.. I suspect that could be the issue.. but I don't know .

Sorry for your loss.. this thing has been bullet proof thus far for us.. We went through the over 1400 pilots flying at Joe Nall with no issues...

Keep looking!!..goose
Old 05-27-2014, 08:22 PM
  #988  
mort78
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Ok... so here are the log files. One problem which I can't see the settings of the RX's as I updated them to 3.22 yesterday, so the settings would have been reset

Logfile: RX1 -



Logfile RX2 -



DS16 Wireless Modes/Trainer - This menu I haven't changed. I have simply turned the TX and CB on....



One thing I can see from the graph's above is that the Powerbox switch was fine. There was a constant flow of power to the CB the whole time. So there goes that idea.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-05-28 12.00.29.jpg
Views:	209
Size:	2.24 MB
ID:	1999122   Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-05-28 12.00.36.jpg
Views:	202
Size:	2.24 MB
ID:	1999123   Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-05-28 12.00.48.jpg
Views:	186
Size:	2.13 MB
ID:	1999124   Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-05-28 12.01.13.jpg
Views:	179
Size:	2.06 MB
ID:	1999125   Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-05-28 11.58.54.jpg
Views:	191
Size:	2.16 MB
ID:	1999126   Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-05-28 11.59.01.jpg
Views:	184
Size:	2.18 MB
ID:	1999127   Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-05-28 11.59.08.jpg
Views:	180
Size:	2.15 MB
ID:	1999128   Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-05-28 11.59.53.jpg
Views:	155
Size:	1.99 MB
ID:	1999129  

Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-05-28 12.05.51.jpg
Views:	215
Size:	2.34 MB
ID:	1999130  
Old 05-28-2014, 10:10 AM
  #989  
gooseF22
 
gooseF22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 2,603
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Hmmmm..nothing jumping out at me..

at what point did the model stop responding on the log? at the end?

See if you can get any data from the log files on the central box.. to see if it went into failsafe..

Looking at the data, all the signals took a dive at the same time.. so Im thinking failsafe... the quality numbers were fine up to that point ..

Is this an electric or a gasser? If a gasser, how is ignition powered? smoke pump?

sometimes when 4 channels take a dive at the same time, something is blocking the signals electronically..

How are the receivers oriented in the model?

Do you have the low voltage shutoff enabled in the Cbox by mistake?

Last edited by gooseF22; 05-28-2014 at 10:16 AM.
Old 05-28-2014, 10:20 AM
  #990  
gooseF22
 
gooseF22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 2,603
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Mort, please post whatever you can get out of the Cbox logs and settings.

After further review, I do want to look your power system.. we need to see the current and volt logs on the Cbox.

Last edited by gooseF22; 05-28-2014 at 10:31 AM.
Old 05-28-2014, 12:34 PM
  #991  
gooseF22
 
gooseF22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 2,603
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Central Box 1.2 is out.....

http://www.jetimodel.com/en/katalog/...ntral-Box-200/

Update to MGPS system...

http://www.jetimodel.com/en/katalog/...odukt/MGPS-EX/
Old 05-28-2014, 03:38 PM
  #992  
mort78
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by gooseF22
Mort, please post whatever you can get out of the Cbox logs and settings.

After further review, I do want to look your power system.. we need to see the current and volt logs on the Cbox.
Hi Goose,
Thanks for the input. I think you've come up with the problem. Maybe
So I think I may have the answer finally. It all comes down to a problem with my set up, which I didn't realise was an issue until I revisited the instruction manual of the CB200.
As I've been using the Powerbox Gemini for power supply, the output connectors on the Gemini are RX style connectors. Rather than change the connectors to MPX style, I just plugged the power into unused CB200 ports. After revisiting the CB200 manual, I see there is a caution message at the bottom of page 9, saying "It is not recommended to supply power through the outputs for servos, sensors or receivers". Or is that only for 8.4V??? The low voltage cutoff in the CB200 is disabled.

Is there a reason for this? I have done many, many flights with that exact same setup. For some reason, it decided enough was enough. I would however love to know why this is a no no. But I will definitely change the connectors to MPX and use the dedicated power input. The only thing I don't understand though. If you look at the photo's above, the power was still being supplied all the way until impact.

By the way, the plane was powered by a DLE55. The RX's were well seperated, with one in the tail and the other in the main accessory bay. The Antenna's were placed at 90 deg angles to one another, so I was covered in each 'plane'. The Ignition is powered through a Powerbox Spark device, but it has a seperate 6V power supply.

Cheers,
Morten

Last edited by mort78; 05-28-2014 at 04:24 PM.
Old 05-28-2014, 05:43 PM
  #993  
gooseF22
 
gooseF22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 2,603
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Holy smokes..

Well I have good news and bad news..

Good news.... We know the problem.. I suspected your power system, but I assumed you powered thru the MPX ports....Powering thru the servo bus caused the crash

Bad news is.... powering the CBox with the servo bus is a big No-no..

additional info:

The central box is built with Servo isolation.. Each servo port has a small circuit that in the event of a short, it disconnects that port. That is predicated on the fact that the main bus of the CBox has been powered through the multiplex ports. The first time you really loaded it up current wise, it detected a short and it isolated the power ports you plugged into, and game over..

The central box is designed to have a High power input through the multiplex ports only.. Twin Batteries, isolated, and measured independently.. There is no other way to hook it up..


Otherwise, if you want to continue to run your power setup, then get an R14 receiver, and use one of the r7's as a satellite.. What I would recommend if you run the gemini is to cut the servo wires off and solder two sets of wires onto one multiplex. if you look on this R14 pic, you will see 2 servo power wires input into the MPX plug.. they are from a twin set of regulators..

Sorry about your plane, but now we know..

.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1629.JPG
Views:	260
Size:	2.15 MB
ID:	1999453  

Last edited by gooseF22; 05-28-2014 at 05:51 PM.
Old 05-28-2014, 05:56 PM
  #994  
mort78
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hey Goose,
Ok... that's good to know we have found the problem.
Now some other questions I have for you:

1. Do you think there are any problems with the CB200 now? Is in, would the servo port be damaged at all. I used 2 servo ports on the CB (2x5.9V outputs from the Gemini).
2. Instead of combining the output leads from the Gemini, wouldn't it be better to solder 2 MPX connectors and use both CB power inputs?

Thanks again for your help. I'm glad the problem is solved.
Cheers,
Morten
Old 05-28-2014, 06:15 PM
  #995  
gooseF22
 
gooseF22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 2,603
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

I doubt there is any damage to the Cbox.. If those ports still work, then they worked as designed..

Yes solder 2 outputs as you described.. You will then get all the isolation and telemetry..


Now.. that said, recommend you get a set of A123's and wire them in direct, and use the CBOX mag switch as it is designed to do.. It gives full battery redundancy.. The Gemini of course is a good system, but its only a 6 amp peak per channel.. could be a little light depending on the size of the airplane..

If you wire batteries direct into the Cbox as it is intended, it will handle 50 amps no problem total load..
Old 05-28-2014, 07:04 PM
  #996  
mort78
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

It's times like this I really, really wish the CB had a voltage regulator.
I guess I'll have to wait until the CB400.
Cheers,
Morten

Last edited by mort78; 05-28-2014 at 07:30 PM.
Old 05-28-2014, 10:54 PM
  #997  
Gaspar
 
Gaspar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Arenys de Munt- BARCELONA, SPAIN
Posts: 425
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Outputs of the CB200 are protected by individual fuses, once blown, you need to replace them.

Gaspar
Old 05-29-2014, 12:58 AM
  #998  
mort78
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hi Gaspar,
Thanks for that. I have powered up my CB200 and tested all outputs by connecting a servo to each output.
I supplied power directly to the mpx connectors on the CB200 and everything worked fine, so I guess all is well.
All the best,
Morten
Old 05-29-2014, 02:00 AM
  #999  
HarryC
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: private, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 3,672
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 15 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Gaspar
Outputs of the CB200 are protected by individual fuses, once blown, you need to replace them.

Gaspar
Mort's sytem worked after the crash.
So either the fuses on the input power did not blow and that is not the cause of the crash, or they did but they are not simple fuses as you describe Gaspar, maybe automatically resetting breakers rather than simple fuses. No-one wants to be having to open up a CB and replace micro fuses.
If they are auto-resetting breakers, it would be useful to know what their current limit is and what their reset time/criteria is.

Last edited by HarryC; 05-29-2014 at 02:08 AM.
Old 05-29-2014, 02:41 AM
  #1000  
Gaspar
 
Gaspar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Arenys de Munt- BARCELONA, SPAIN
Posts: 425
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Could be a resettable PolyFuse, long ago since I checked, but in this case I don't expect more than 4A per output.

Gaspar

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.