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  1. #1
    AV8ATOR's Avatar
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    Jeti-duplex-ds-16-2.4-ghz

    Hello,

    I am looking to purchase this radio. looks like a good product not sure, would like for you to chime in if you have any first hand experience or knowledge.

    Thank You

    http://www.espritmodel.com/jeti-dupl...nly-radio.aspx

  2. #2
    RCISFUN's Avatar
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    I looked at this radio at Joe Nall and KY Jets, it is awesome.
    The latest AMA magazine has a great review article on the radio.
    I believe my friend (RCJETS_63) just received one, I'm sure he will post his findings.
    Rich
    Jeti USA Flight Team - DS-16, Xtreme Arf, Fei Bao Jets, Jet Central: SE Rhino 200, Cheetah, & Super Eagle owner

  3. #3
    JohnMac's Avatar
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    Yes, I just bought one. I have not done that much with it yet, but it seems reasonably straighforward and reasonably capable. Build quality is par excellance. (10/10). Ergonomics not bad. (8/10) I don't like the trims but the autotrim facility looks very nice. Like most manuals it leaves some of the story untold. There are some bits I have not got my head around yet, such as how to offset flaps for various flight modes.
    I will fly it in a foamy first until I have it all sorted out.
    John

  4. #4
    AV8ATOR's Avatar
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    Rich and John

    Thanks for your input.

    Carlos

  5. #5

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    I had a brief try on the sticks a year ago. I have been waiting for the weatronic transmitter (since i have been using their receivers for years with a patch on my 10X)....and this thing seemed like it was great. The telemetry, feel of the radio, voice alarms..I only had a few minutes with it but it seems like where the weatronic should have been years ago.

    If I wasn't already two receivers into weatronic for jets I would have gotten one of these.

  6. #6
    Henke Torphammar's Avatar
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    I got one of the first DS of the line. Really impressive, very simple to program. The accelerometer is super good. Just tilt the Tx to the side and it reads the timer/speed/or any of your choice loud and clear. Tilt it towards you and you have perfect controll of the wheel breaks
    /Henke
    www.youtube.com/henke2
    Ready2fly - T45 Goshawk, Lambert Kolibri T35. Perfect if I want to do carrier training!

  7. #7
    RCISFUN's Avatar
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    Last edited by RCISFUN; 10-27-2013 at 04:24 PM.
    Rich
    Jeti USA Flight Team - DS-16, Xtreme Arf, Fei Bao Jets, Jet Central: SE Rhino 200, Cheetah, & Super Eagle owner

  8. #8
    rcjets_63's Avatar
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    I've had the DC-16 tray-style version (the DS-16 is the handheld-style) for about a month and am quite happy with it. This radio has a variety of features which are very appealing:

    - switch configurations: the switches are modular and plug into sockets on the "mother" board. This allows you to configure the radio to your preferences. You can choose each type of switch you want (2-position, 3-position, long, spring-centered, safety, etc), choose where you want it, and what it does. I added a 2-position switch to the end of the left stick which is used to retract the landing gear, shut off the signal to the nose gear steering servo, and start the countdown timer. To the end of the right stick, I added a push button switch; when the gear is down the switch is brakes but when the gear is up, the switch drops any external ordnance. I also added a two position safety switch which is the "parking" brake;

    - audio output: the radio gives audio readouts of telemetry (more about that below) and "events" or status/warnings which you preprogrammed. For instance, it plays a short wav file saying "landing gear up", "take-off flaps", "elevator high rate", etc whenever the corresponding switch is moved. This confirms that you flipped the switch that you meant to flip without having to look down at the Tx. I set up a 2-position spring loaded switch to tell me what is the time remaining on the countdown timer;

    - telemetry: there is a wide range of sensors available to let you know what is going on with your model when it is flying and you can configure the way the data is presented to you on the screen, on an optional hand held telemetry receiver your spotter can hold, and the audio outputs. I had a Spektrum DX-18 which, although it had telemetry, it had no audio output, and the data was only presented on the screen at the bottom of the radio (not very visible to you or your spotter, and you had to flip through several pages of info while you were flying to get the data you wanted which seems neither practical or safe. With my DC-16, the user configures the display and the audio output. I've programmed a switch to have the Tx speak all the selected data (altitude, airspeed, heading, Rx voltage, ECU voltage, etc) when the switch is turned on. That can be a bit of information overload so I set up the flap switch such that when the flaps are lowered for landing, the Tx continuously speaks to airspeed and altitude. I'm now experimenting with the GPS to give a double-beep on landing approach when the plane is over the "inner marker" which I've set at 400 ft from the mid-point of the runway. Of course, you can also program a variety of automatic audio warnings that will let you know if any of the telemetry is outside of an acceptable value (eg low voltages, weak radio signal on an antenna, speed too high or too low, distance, etc);

    A few things I've noticed is that there need to be more/better choices of the "units" of the data. For instance, airspeed is available in feet per second but I'd rather have it in miles per hour. Also, the GPS isnt accurate enough for altitude. I did a flyby at an altitude of about 10-15 feet but the telemetry data said the altitude was negative 50 feet. As such, I bought the Vario sensor (barometric pressure) which should give better data but I haven't tested it yet. Like most/all radios, the manual is OK, I guess, and tells you how to program functions. It doesn't give very good practical examples of things you can do so you pretty much have to figure out for yourself how to use the advanced capabilities of this radio.

    All in all, I have to say that it's a fantastic radio and I'm certainly happy with it.

    Regards,

    Jim

  9. #9

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    I went to a shop to try the Jeti a year ago, thinking I would buy one. Within a few seconds of holding it I put it down and walked away. The design of the trims buttons is, imo, useless. Some people are ok with them, some are not, so you really ought to go to a shop and try it for yourself before committing to buy. If you are ok with them then that is fine, but you wouldn’t want to mail order it and then discover they don’t work for you. Even Jeti retailers acknowledge the design is a real problem and Ilja Grum has come up with an after-market add-on to make the trims more useable.
    http://www.grumania.com/xtcommerce/Radio/battery/JETI-products/JETI-transmitters/SILVER-EDITION-G-TRIM::624.html

    What is the problem? It’s not the location or the concept, I am used to the Multiplex Royal trims which the Jeti copies, but the Mpx buttons are each shaped differently so when your thumb lands on them it knows which button it is touching. The Jeti buttons are identical to one another so your thumb does not know which of the four it is pressing. You have to spend time moving your thumb around to find the middle gap between the 4 buttons so you know where your thumb is, and then you can move it to the button you want to press.
    Last edited by HarryC; 10-28-2013 at 08:12 AM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryC View Post
    I went to a shop to try the Jeti a year ago, thinking I would buy one. Within a few seconds of holding it I put it down and walked away. The design of the trims buttons is, imo, useless. Some people are ok with them, some are not, so you really ought to go to a shop and try it for yourself before committing to buy. If you are ok with them then that is fine, but you wouldn’t want to mail order it and then discover they don’t work for you. Even Jeti retailers acknowledge the design is a real problem and Ilja Grum has come up with an after-market add-on to make the trims more useable.
    http://www.grumania.com/xtcommerce/Radio/battery/JETI-products/JETI-transmitters/SILVER-EDITION-G-TRIM::624.html
    Just think about that, it's all in your head. I personally like having all trim buttons in one space. Beats the "standard", meaning searching around the whole radio for trims. Also for there are 2 additional features.

    And if you need that much trim very fast, there must be other problem.

    Cross Assigning of the Trims: Put them anywhere you like, assign trim for elevator on opposite side of the radio

    Auto Trim: Use your gimbal stick for trimming and using any switch transfer setting to the trim. Works like a charm.

    Zb

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcjets_63 View Post
    A few things I've noticed is that there need to be more/better choices of the "units" of the data. For instance, airspeed is available in feet per second but I'd rather have it in miles per hour. Also, the GPS isnt accurate enough for altitude. I did a flyby at an altitude of about 10-15 feet but the telemetry data said the altitude was negative 50 feet. As such, I bought the Vario sensor (barometric pressure) which should give better data but I haven't tested it yet. Like most/all radios, the manual is OK, I guess, and tells you how to program functions. It doesn't give very good practical examples of things you can do so you pretty much have to figure out for yourself how to use the advanced capabilities of this radio.

    All in all, I have to say that it's a fantastic radio and I'm certainly happy with it.

    Regards,

    Jim
    Use Vario Sensor, works perfect. I have one on 5x of my sailplanes.

    Zb/Jeti USA

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeti USA View Post
    Just think about that, it's all in your head.

    Zb
    Er, I don't think so! This may be the first tx in history that a retailer thinks it needs an add on gadget to prevent "frustration" and "maloperation". His previous page said a lot of people were not buying it because of the trim buttons. And as I was at pains to make very clear, I am already used to having trim buttons in that location so try reading my post and come out of your denial.

    If the trims work for you that's fine. But they have been a deal breaker for plenty people and it is fair to warn prospective buyers to check it first before they buy it blind, mail order.
    Last edited by HarryC; 10-28-2013 at 11:34 AM.

  13. #13
    mr_matt's Avatar
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    I saw the trims and it could be better but no deal breaker to me. My friend Rob J agreed it was his only criticism.

    Jim, can you explain what options you have with RF setup (the 2 radios and how they are bound) and how you came to a decision on your particular setup? And what receivers you are running? Thanks in advance
    Matt

  14. #14
    rcjets_63's Avatar
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    The radio binding procedure is essentially the same as the JR/Spektrum procedure. Just plug the bind plug into the receiver (with any telemetry sensors connected) switch on the receiver, and select bind in the transmitter menu.

    I'm not sure what you mean by the RF set-up but I'm guessing you are referring to the fail-safe vs hold. You can set up each channel individually to go to a preset position or hold at the last position. I used fail-safe for everything essentially because that is what I'm used to doing.

    Receiver-wise, I bought two of the R5L (full range) receivers for my Habu and T-28 and I used these for initial testing and learning the programming. I also have a EX R7, a EX R14, and a Central Box 200. I expect to use the EX R14 as the standard receiver for most of my jets; I may use the Central Box for the big Gripen or the B-58. The Central Box requires a couple of satellite receivers and I'll buy two of the RSat remote receivers ($49 each) or the R5L's.

    As for the trims (which are being debated above), I have the Grum trim stick and it works great.

    Regards,

    Jim
    Last edited by rcjets_63; 10-28-2013 at 12:42 PM.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcjets_63 View Post
    The radio binding procedure is essentially the same as the JR/Spektrum procedure. Just plug the bind plug into the receiver (with any telemetry sensors connected) switch on the receiver, and select bind in the transmitter menu.

    I'm not sure what you mean by setup. Mechanically or software settings. Please elaborate?

    Receiver-wise, I bought two of the R5L (full range) receivers for my Habu and T-28 and I used these for initial testing and learning the programming. I also have a EX R7, a EX R14, and a Central Box 200. I expect to use the EX R14 as the standard receiver for most of my jets; I may use the Central Box for the big Gripen or the B-58. The Central Box requires a couple of satellite receivers and I'll buy two of the RSat remote receivers ($49 each) or the R5L's.

    As for the trims (which are being debated above), I have the Grum trim stick and it works great.

    Regards,

    Jim
    As I'm sure you know you can use any receiver as satellites for the central box. However, the Rsat can't be used in the states. You'll need the new R3 which is a lot more versatile and is in the process of being certified for use in the US.

    The R3 can be used as a stand alone 3 channel receiver, a remote switch, or satellites for the central box.
    Last edited by tulz161; 10-28-2013 at 12:44 PM.
    Money isn\'\'\'\'t everything... but everything makes me want it.

  16. #16
    rcjets_63's Avatar
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    Sorry, typed in RSat but meant R3 receivers. Still got the Monday-haven't-had-enough-coffee-yet thing going on. Essentially I was attempting to state that the Central Box requires a couple of receivers. Thanks for the correction.

  17. #17
    mr_matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcjets_63 View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by the RF set-up but I'm guessing you are referring to the fail-safe vs hold.
    I meant the dual path mode versus whatever other modes it has, for the 2 transmitters. I thought there were options.
    Matt

  18. #18
    AV8ATOR's Avatar
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    Thank you everyone for taking the time to give your advise and or opinion.

    Special thanks to rcjets_63, for explaining some of the radios programming and ease of use. I may need to pm you in the future if I decide to purchase.
    Last edited by AV8ATOR; 10-28-2013 at 07:34 PM.

  19. #19
    Henke Torphammar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryC View Post
    If the trims work for you that's fine. But they have been a deal breaker for plenty people and it is fair to warn prospective buyers to check it first before they buy it blind, mail order.
    The key is that you never need to youch the trims as it got auto trim. A true HOTAS system where you never need to let go of the sticks when triming. But I guess if you don't like it you don't like it and you also buy with your heart.

    Last edited by Henke Torphammar; 10-28-2013 at 11:31 PM.
    /Henke
    www.youtube.com/henke2
    Ready2fly - T45 Goshawk, Lambert Kolibri T35. Perfect if I want to do carrier training!

  20. #20

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    Can you explain how autotrim works on a maiden flight?

  21. #21
    Henke Torphammar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotelSierra View Post
    Can you explain how autotrim works on a maiden flight?
    You just lift of with the airplane and bring it up to a good height as you always do on a maiden. If you notice it needs triming just flick a switch of your choice to activete the auto trim. Then just keep flying and the autotrim automaticly trims in the direction of the sticks. If you fly a straight pass and hold let's say 50% right aileron you will notice you need less and less input during the pass and eventually no input is needed. Then just flick the switch again to turn autotrim of. It simply trims in the direction of the stick and is activated by the switch, slider or even accelerometer of your choice.

    If you trim manually by your self or if a friend help you it's always a disturbing moment and fumbeling for the trims on any Tx. Specially of the trim of the plane is way of. The auto trim solves this.

    Sounds a bit odd at first but works like a charm.
    Last edited by Henke Torphammar; 10-29-2013 at 03:25 AM.
    /Henke
    www.youtube.com/henke2
    Ready2fly - T45 Goshawk, Lambert Kolibri T35. Perfect if I want to do carrier training!

  22. #22
    rcjets_63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_matt View Post
    I meant the dual path mode versus whatever other modes it has, for the 2 transmitters. I thought there were options.
    Ah, thanks for the clarification. To answer your original question "can you explain what options you have with RF setup (the 2 radios and how they are bound) and how you came to a decision on your particular setup? And what receivers you are running?"

    The DC-16 and the DS-16 transmitters have two RF transmitter modules inside and these can be set up as follows:
    - "Default" mode which is where each of the two RF modules in the transmitter are active and alternatively communicate with a single receiver in the plane.
    - "Double Path" mode which is where each of the two RF modules in the transmitter communicate independently from each other with two receivers in the plane.
    - "Trainer" mode which is a method of linking two DC/DS-16 transmitters (one for the instructor and one for the strudent) wirelessly. The transmitter set in "instructor" mode has one RF module communicating with the plane while the other module communicates with the student's transmitter. The transmitter set in "student" mode has one RF module communicating with the instructor's transmitter. I think that the other RF module in the student's transmitter isn't used.

    The decision as to whether to use the "Default" mode or the "Double Path" mode is essentially determined by the decision to use one or two receivers. Two receivers is a bit more expensive (but still cheap compared to the overall price of the jet) or there may be limited space in the plane (not likely as most of our jets have a fair amount of space inside and the receivers are reasonably small) or some other reason. If you choose to use two receivers, then you have to decide how you want to connect them.

    Using two receivers can be done as follows:
    (a) split the servos for each control between the two receivers; or
    (b) use a Central Box

    The connections for (a) are as follows:
    - You could plug one aileron and one elevator servo into Rx #1 and the other aileron and elevator servo into Rx #2. If you have twin rudders, you can do the same thing with the rudder servos. There are some controls that only have one servo (throttle, nose wheel steering, brakes, retracts, etc) and would only be plugged into one receiver. If you lost that receiver, you would lose control of the servos connected to it, but at least you'd still have some aileron and elevator control from the other receiver and would have a better chance of getting your plane back. If you have a plane with a pair of servos on a control surface (eg two elevator servos driving a single elevator or flying stab like most Hawks or F-4's), you could connect one servo from each pair to Rx #1 and the other servo from each pair to Rx #2. If one receiver fails, the signal from the remaing receiver/servo would still drive the surface. I need to confirm this but I believe that with this set up you would want to use the "Out Off" fail-safe selection for each of the servos for that control surface. "Out off" shuts off the output signal provided by the (failed) receiver and would enable the remaining good receiver/servo to drive the control surface without binding/fighting the failed receiver/servo (which would occur if the fail-safe selection was to hold positon or go to a preset position).

    The connections for (b) are as follows:
    - Each receiver and all servos are plugged into the Central Box. With this method, you have the added expense of the Central Box (still cheap in relation to the overall price of the jet) but the loss of one receiver would still give you control of all channels because all the servos are plugged into the Central Box which would be controlled by the remaining good receiver.

    Currently I'm in the process of converting my fleet to Jeti receivers. All my planes that are in or near flying condition have only one receiver so I'll probably just replace the current receiver with the Jeti EX R14 receiver since it will be easy to do the swap. (I may later convert them to dual receivers). However, the new competition/heavy metal/$$$$ planes I'm building will probably get two receivers and a Central Box.

    Regards,

    Jim

    P.S.: Please keep in mind that I'm still on the learning curve for this radio but the information above is what I understand so far. If any expert sees a mistake above, or if I'm missing something, please jump in.
    Last edited by rcjets_63; 10-29-2013 at 12:42 PM.

  23. #23
    mr_matt's Avatar
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    Jim, thanks for this, you have nailed my question.

    As a follow up, don't these radios also support the satellite receiver model.....instead of having a single receiver bound to each of the 2 transmitter modules (the Double path mode), can't you have 2 or more receivers bound to each transmitter modules? (boy I am glad I am not paid to write coherent technical questions.....oh wait)
    Matt

  24. #24
    rcjets_63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_matt View Post
    Jim, thanks for this, you have nailed my question.

    As a follow up, don't these radios also support the satellite receiver model.....instead of having a single receiver bound to each of the 2 transmitter modules (the Double path mode), can't you have 2 or more receivers bound to each transmitter modules? (boy I am glad I am not paid to write coherent technical questions.....oh wait)
    Matt,

    If I'm understanding your question, you are asking about having multiple receivers bound to each of the transmitter modules. This would give rise to two configurations:
    a) Rx 1 and Rx 2 bound to transmitter module 1. Rx 1 and Rx 2 also bound to transmitter module 2
    b) Rx 1 and Rx 2 bound to the transmitter module 1 and Rx 3 and Rx 4 bound to transmitter module 2.

    For (a), this doesn't appear to be the case. The explanation I gave in post #22 about Default, Double Path, and Trainer mode were basically right out of the manual. While having the same two receivers (without a Central Box) bound to each of the transmitter modules would provide a level of redundany in case of failure of one of the transmitter modules, adding the Central Box would provide the redundancy against such a transmitter module failure because the remaining transmitter module would still be communicating with the receiver to which it was bound and you would have control of all channels.
    For (b), that sure is a lot of receivers so I doubt this is what you are asking about.

    Regards,

    Jim
    Last edited by rcjets_63; 10-29-2013 at 01:58 PM.

  25. #25
    JohnMac's Avatar
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    Hi Jim,
    I am wondering about theuse of a "central box". in the context of redundancy. This is adding another active element to the system which can also fail. Why is two Rx's driving a cenral box more reliable than a single Rx? It is demonstrably not so.
    In the UK Large Models (those over 20Kgs) come under the auspices of the Large Model Associaation. They have a scheme that recomends two Rx's arranged to have one "half " of the model under the contral of one Rx and the other "half" under control of the other. Each Rx should have at least it's own single battery.
    In this way, should a Rx or it's associated systems fail, at least some control is retained. With the central box, should this fail, all is lost.
    John


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