Skymaster F-104 Assembly USAF style
10-13-2014, 08:19 PM
#52
Gear issue
I have discovered that the gear leg can rotate torsionally when retracted. When it does it can put excess closing loads on the aft main gear door. Has anyone a solution? I am planning on adding a gear up stop to prevent the rotation when retracted.
10-16-2014, 08:55 AM
#56
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Well, I hope what you say is true. My home field is also 400ft paved and I only fly certain jets from it...Eurosport, big Hawk, etc. I need to go to a larger runway to fly my Y/A F-18 and little F-16. I love the 104 and if you are having success with it on 400ft, I may just have to get one for myself. Wish you luck!
10-16-2014, 10:28 AM
#57
The key with any short runway is the use of take a flat, using full length, holding the brakes until at least half the rest is applied, and immediate application of full power once the brakes have been released. After this I normally apply about half of the available elevator and wait for rotation. Most of our Jets are near a one to one power to weight ratio or if this is the case rotation will normally occur between 200 and 300 feet if the above technique is used. Obviously density altitude and wind conditions will affect the takeoff run.
The real trick with the short runway is recovery. The landing approach must be spot on so that the airplane touches down in the first quarter of the runway. If this cannot be accomplished a go-around is mandatory otherwise an overrun will result. Truth be told, it's actually much easier to land at a given point on a narrow, short runway than it is to spot land on a full-scale runway. I believe the key to the landing on a short runway starts with a good approach with a good visual reference point for line up with the runway as well as power settings and altitude. With Jets it's imperative that the airplane retrim to a flaps down approach speed with a neutral elevator stick. This allows the airplane to maintain a slow approach speed without pilot input. The pilot then simply needs to make minor corrections with power to get the airplane to the runway.
The real trick with the short runway is recovery. The landing approach must be spot on so that the airplane touches down in the first quarter of the runway. If this cannot be accomplished a go-around is mandatory otherwise an overrun will result. Truth be told, it's actually much easier to land at a given point on a narrow, short runway than it is to spot land on a full-scale runway. I believe the key to the landing on a short runway starts with a good approach with a good visual reference point for line up with the runway as well as power settings and altitude. With Jets it's imperative that the airplane retrim to a flaps down approach speed with a neutral elevator stick. This allows the airplane to maintain a slow approach speed without pilot input. The pilot then simply needs to make minor corrections with power to get the airplane to the runway.
10-17-2014, 02:36 PM
#59
Great video about getting the altitude record back.
http://youtu.be/O7azACyezAU
also a favorite read
http://www.pacificaviationmuseum.org...04-starfighter
http://youtu.be/O7azACyezAU
also a favorite read
http://www.pacificaviationmuseum.org...04-starfighter
11-02-2014, 08:59 AM
#60
Well, I hope what you say is true. My home field is also 400ft paved and I only fly certain jets from it...Eurosport, big Hawk, etc. I need to go to a larger runway to fly my Y/A F-18 and little F-16. I love the 104 and if you are having success with it on 400ft, I may just have to get one for myself. Wish you luck!
Thanks for the good wishes!
Got the engine bay painted and sealed up the top of the firewall. Going to start installing the air system in the fuselage today.
Is anyone having leaking from the hyd side of the gear system? I'm considering changing lines. These SM installed -3 lines are about .007" smaller in diameter than Festo -3 line.
11-04-2014, 10:09 PM
#62
Gear well painted
More progress. Most of the line fighters I've seen had this similar color in the main gear well. DACO reference supports this color choice as well. I used model master "Steel" enamel paint.
I also figured out how to bleed the air (on hyd side) from my gear system. All is well now. Additionally I installed my up stops for the gear.
I also figured out how to bleed the air (on hyd side) from my gear system. All is well now. Additionally I installed my up stops for the gear.
11-06-2014, 10:26 AM
#64
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Jason nice work. I noticed that on your main gear doors you have only one air cylinder per side. Mine came with two per side. They may have gone to a large one on the newer planes and eliminated the extra ones.
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DenisFerrari (09-13-2020)
11-06-2014, 06:51 PM
#65
Jason,
what size chute did you order from Dan? The full size chute is 18' dia I believe, which would put this one over 40" correct?
been working on a list of equipment, did you create any such list before you started?
For your amusement, I just finished my second Avonds F-104, and couldn't resist comparing the two in size. Bet the Avonds would fit inside the SM.
...and maybe be a tip tank on the new Airworld version!
Anyways, I need to go back to the start of your thread and make notes!.....
what size chute did you order from Dan? The full size chute is 18' dia I believe, which would put this one over 40" correct?
been working on a list of equipment, did you create any such list before you started?
For your amusement, I just finished my second Avonds F-104, and couldn't resist comparing the two in size. Bet the Avonds would fit inside the SM.
...and maybe be a tip tank on the new Airworld version!Anyways, I need to go back to the start of your thread and make notes!.....
Last edited by smchale; 11-06-2014 at 06:56 PM.
11-06-2014, 08:48 PM
#67
Hi Sean! I did make a list of sorts. I'm still trying to decide on a UAT.
Im going all HV but due to wire length runs I'm going to use a mix of PowerBox and Smartfly. My RX layout is somewhat complicated. I will have two RX's feeding the RRS for seamless redundancy on 7 channels. Then the RRS will send signal only to the smartfly power expander. This will allow HV and high amp capacity to these servos as well as battery balancing, isolation and redundancy. Since I'm able to program my servos I will be able to gang the LE flap servos and the TE flap servos to one channel.
The third RX will be used for non critical channels and SBUS 2 telemetry and ASSI module.
I will look up the chute diameter, I've forgotten.
Im going all HV but due to wire length runs I'm going to use a mix of PowerBox and Smartfly. My RX layout is somewhat complicated. I will have two RX's feeding the RRS for seamless redundancy on 7 channels. Then the RRS will send signal only to the smartfly power expander. This will allow HV and high amp capacity to these servos as well as battery balancing, isolation and redundancy. Since I'm able to program my servos I will be able to gang the LE flap servos and the TE flap servos to one channel.
The third RX will be used for non critical channels and SBUS 2 telemetry and ASSI module.
I will look up the chute diameter, I've forgotten.
11-06-2014, 08:53 PM
#68
Very interesting! I've seen some YouTube videos that looked like the air cylinders were weak. The fwd doors are huge and will certainly benefit from the extra cylinders. My bird didn't come with the extra cylinders. �� THANK YOU for the pic of your gear bay. Now I can install the silver panels I couldn't figure out where they belonged. Please post more pics when you can. Lots to learn and there has been a real lack of information insofar as good build threads on this airplane. Love the detail on the main gear rams. Where did you get the placards?
11-06-2014, 09:08 PM
#69
Jason,
what size chute did you order from Dan? The full size chute is 18' dia I believe, which would put this one over 40" correct?
been working on a list of equipment, did you create any such list before you started?
For your amusement, I just finished my second Avonds F-104, and couldn't resist comparing the two in size. Bet the Avonds would fit inside the SM....and maybe be a tip tank on the new Airworld version!
Anyways, I need to go back to the start of your thread and make notes!.....
what size chute did you order from Dan? The full size chute is 18' dia I believe, which would put this one over 40" correct?
been working on a list of equipment, did you create any such list before you started?
For your amusement, I just finished my second Avonds F-104, and couldn't resist comparing the two in size. Bet the Avonds would fit inside the SM.
...and maybe be a tip tank on the new Airworld version!Anyways, I need to go back to the start of your thread and make notes!.....
You are correct. 18' chute. @ 1/5 is 43.2"
I believe that is what I ordered. I will measure it in the morning.
11-07-2014, 07:24 AM
#70
Jason,
My main doors also have two air cylinders per door like Jacks.
I spent some time this morning inventorying all the parts. Mine didn't come with any sort of opening canopy but that's OK.
I appear to be missing the air cylinders to drive the speed brakes, I missed those before so I'll have to contact SM.
I played with the main gear and needed to bleed air out using up about half the reservoir bottle of fluid to fill that void. Did we settle on the type of fluid used? See attached pics of the reservoir after the up and down strokes. Seems to be performing consistently now. With air in there only one or the other gear would fully cycle.
I noticed that when the gear is down the struts don't back onto any sort of stop. Any rearward force from landing is absorbed by the hydraulic retraction cylinder. I would think a hardwood block behind the gear would relieve any stress on that cylinder and it's mounts. Thoughts?
Pics also attached of the raw ply and painted wood parts I rec'd. There is also a small tank that has a fitting one end and a tube on the other. There is also a syringe in that bag. Any idea what it's for?
My main doors also have two air cylinders per door like Jacks.
I spent some time this morning inventorying all the parts. Mine didn't come with any sort of opening canopy but that's OK.
I appear to be missing the air cylinders to drive the speed brakes, I missed those before so I'll have to contact SM.
I played with the main gear and needed to bleed air out using up about half the reservoir bottle of fluid to fill that void. Did we settle on the type of fluid used? See attached pics of the reservoir after the up and down strokes. Seems to be performing consistently now. With air in there only one or the other gear would fully cycle.
I noticed that when the gear is down the struts don't back onto any sort of stop. Any rearward force from landing is absorbed by the hydraulic retraction cylinder. I would think a hardwood block behind the gear would relieve any stress on that cylinder and it's mounts. Thoughts?
Pics also attached of the raw ply and painted wood parts I rec'd. There is also a small tank that has a fitting one end and a tube on the other. There is also a syringe in that bag. Any idea what it's for?
11-07-2014, 08:12 AM
#71
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Sean the last picture is of the little jig saw puzzle of parts that line the wheel wells with the exception of the two speed brake liners. It took me a couple of evenings to figure how they were to be installed. I can try to send more detailed pictures if you like. The picture in the #64 shows them but getting them installed and secured was a bit more interesting.
11-07-2014, 08:18 AM
#72
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Very interesting! I've seen some YouTube videos that looked like the air cylinders were weak. The fwd doors are huge and will certainly benefit from the extra cylinders. My bird didn't come with the extra cylinders. �� THANK YOU for the pic of your gear bay. Now I can install the silver panels I couldn't figure out where they belonged. Please post more pics when you can. Lots to learn and there has been a real lack of information insofar as good build threads on this airplane. Love the detail on the main gear rams. Where did you get the placards?
11-07-2014, 10:13 PM
#73
Thanks JPP!
Sean the chute is 36" ��
not what I asked for but it could be limited by the volume of the chute housing.
I will verify and investigate.
You out can bleed the air from your system by keeping the resivoir upright and resivoir ports covered with the fluid in the jar.
invert the airplane and tilt the fuse to get the air to the high side of the actuator. Then actuate the gear in one direction. Tilt the fuse to the other end and cycle to push her air into the reservoir. Couple shots and it'll be back to air free....nearly. An easier way is to disconnect the actuators from the gear legs and tilt them in your hand while you actuate.
My opinion are that aft gear loads should be minimal and acceptable for the actuators.
I'm happy to see a 104 thread finally exchange information! This is great!
Untainted wood bits are for the cockpit, exhaust duct and the cross is for the nose accessory tray but I found it to be inaduquite. I bolted mine firmly and doubled the ray dome firewall. Also tied it back into the fuse. I plan on having some batts in the nose so it will be heavy and needs to be strong. Especially the way I land��.
Sean the chute is 36" ��
not what I asked for but it could be limited by the volume of the chute housing.
I will verify and investigate.
You out can bleed the air from your system by keeping the resivoir upright and resivoir ports covered with the fluid in the jar.
invert the airplane and tilt the fuse to get the air to the high side of the actuator. Then actuate the gear in one direction. Tilt the fuse to the other end and cycle to push her air into the reservoir. Couple shots and it'll be back to air free....nearly. An easier way is to disconnect the actuators from the gear legs and tilt them in your hand while you actuate.
My opinion are that aft gear loads should be minimal and acceptable for the actuators.
I'm happy to see a 104 thread finally exchange information! This is great!
Untainted wood bits are for the cockpit, exhaust duct and the cross is for the nose accessory tray but I found it to be inaduquite. I bolted mine firmly and doubled the ray dome firewall. Also tied it back into the fuse. I plan on having some batts in the nose so it will be heavy and needs to be strong. Especially the way I land��.
