Ground Collision at BITW 2013
01-10-2014, 08:11 PM
#153
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Wow, I had to stop reading and skip to the end.
1. Barry, obviously you could have done some things better to avoid this.
2. The other fellow sure as hell could have done several things to avoid this incident.
3. The lawyer is ridiculous. That's all i want to say about that.
4. If i was on a jury I would rule in Barry's favor but that would be a shame because it would lead people to believe that fault was solely on the other party and that just isn't true. You were right in trying to make this a learning experience.
5. Finally, I am an American. I admit that many Americans can be lawsuit crazy. However, I don't appreciate being labeled for the actions of others. Do all Englishman have bad teeth? Are all Irish alcoholics? Do all Chinese RC products have poor quality assurance practices? Obviously, the point is, certain cultures have there quirks. Placing a blanket label shows a serious lack of sensitivity to the worlds cultural differences and it perpetuates stereotyping. Seriously, that's like saying all Korean RC product manuals are written in Chinglish. Actually, that last example doesn't bode well for my argument. Anyway, love y'all. Hope it gets worked out.
1. Barry, obviously you could have done some things better to avoid this.
2. The other fellow sure as hell could have done several things to avoid this incident.
3. The lawyer is ridiculous. That's all i want to say about that.
4. If i was on a jury I would rule in Barry's favor but that would be a shame because it would lead people to believe that fault was solely on the other party and that just isn't true. You were right in trying to make this a learning experience.
5. Finally, I am an American. I admit that many Americans can be lawsuit crazy. However, I don't appreciate being labeled for the actions of others. Do all Englishman have bad teeth? Are all Irish alcoholics? Do all Chinese RC products have poor quality assurance practices? Obviously, the point is, certain cultures have there quirks. Placing a blanket label shows a serious lack of sensitivity to the worlds cultural differences and it perpetuates stereotyping. Seriously, that's like saying all Korean RC product manuals are written in Chinglish. Actually, that last example doesn't bode well for my argument. Anyway, love y'all. Hope it gets worked out.
01-10-2014, 08:24 PM
#154
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Man this is the craziest thing I've ever heard. That lawyer sounds like a collection agent. Was his lawyer hanging out with him at the event? In his back pocket? I wish I could bring my lawyer everywhere I went. I would send him his wing back. Avoid a real case later because no way this would ever go to court. No matter how many witnesses he has. How can he prove they are all not his friends? How credible are these witnesses? What was their vantage point? No way. Not happening. Scare tactics. It does not matter who's fault it is. Too difficult for a lawyer dumb enough to take this frivolous case to understand and to be able to convey what happened to a judge that doesn't understand why there's grown ass men suing over a toy. Lol, I can already see it. Don't waste your time. Either buy a new wing and send it to him (which I wouldn't do) or just send him his wing back and say good luck buddy.
Last edited by PowerBoxDanny; 01-10-2014 at 08:27 PM.
01-10-2014, 09:08 PM
#155
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Mr.Berry
You obviously could have done more to avoid this accident/situation i was there and i know that you should not of landed when there is a plane on the runway, you did not have any emergency such as a flame out or something of the like. after the accident you and Asi agreed that you will fix his wing and buy him a new spar.you took his damaged wing and promised to fix it in 2-3 weeks. I was there when you two agreed on that. after two weeks asi called you and you told him you are leaving the country for a couple of weeks. Asi was under the impression that kim will fix the wing and by the time you are going to come back, and everything will be behind us. then he understood from kim that you told kim to NOT repair the wings, and you then told asi that you need to write a letter with the sequence of events,which was not including in the deal and not even mentioned. before you would fix the wing. this is just an excuse! Asi gave you 4 months to repair the wing and buy a new spar, after it being 4 months without any news on the wing, that is when the lawyer comes into play. that in my opinion is absolutely right, you did not honor your side of the deal, and then you come with this letter asking for a sequence of events. let people know both sides of the story before you make this post. fix the wing and put it behind all of us.
You obviously could have done more to avoid this accident/situation i was there and i know that you should not of landed when there is a plane on the runway, you did not have any emergency such as a flame out or something of the like. after the accident you and Asi agreed that you will fix his wing and buy him a new spar.you took his damaged wing and promised to fix it in 2-3 weeks. I was there when you two agreed on that. after two weeks asi called you and you told him you are leaving the country for a couple of weeks. Asi was under the impression that kim will fix the wing and by the time you are going to come back, and everything will be behind us. then he understood from kim that you told kim to NOT repair the wings, and you then told asi that you need to write a letter with the sequence of events,which was not including in the deal and not even mentioned. before you would fix the wing. this is just an excuse! Asi gave you 4 months to repair the wing and buy a new spar, after it being 4 months without any news on the wing, that is when the lawyer comes into play. that in my opinion is absolutely right, you did not honor your side of the deal, and then you come with this letter asking for a sequence of events. let people know both sides of the story before you make this post. fix the wing and put it behind all of us.
01-10-2014, 09:16 PM
#156
Mr.Berry
You obviously could have done more to avoid this accident/situation i was there and i know that you should not of landed when there is a plane on the runway, you did not have any emergency such as a flame out or something of the like. after the accident you and Asi agreed that you will fix his wing and buy him a new spar.you took his damaged wing and promised to fix it in 2-3 weeks. I was there when you two agreed on that. after two weeks asi called you and you told him you are leaving the country for a couple of weeks. Asi was under the impression that kim will fix the wing and by the time you are going to come back, and everything will be behind us. then he understood from kim that you told kim to NOT repair the wings, and you then told asi that you need to write a letter with the sequence of events,which was not including in the deal and not even mentioned. before you would fix the wing. this is just an excuse! Asi gave you 4 months to repair the wing and buy a new spar, after it being 4 months without any news on the wing, that is when the lawyer comes into play. that in my opinion is absolutely right, you did not honor your side of the deal, and then you come with this letter asking for a sequence of events. let people know both sides of the story before you make this post. fix the wing and put it behind all of us.
You obviously could have done more to avoid this accident/situation i was there and i know that you should not of landed when there is a plane on the runway, you did not have any emergency such as a flame out or something of the like. after the accident you and Asi agreed that you will fix his wing and buy him a new spar.you took his damaged wing and promised to fix it in 2-3 weeks. I was there when you two agreed on that. after two weeks asi called you and you told him you are leaving the country for a couple of weeks. Asi was under the impression that kim will fix the wing and by the time you are going to come back, and everything will be behind us. then he understood from kim that you told kim to NOT repair the wings, and you then told asi that you need to write a letter with the sequence of events,which was not including in the deal and not even mentioned. before you would fix the wing. this is just an excuse! Asi gave you 4 months to repair the wing and buy a new spar, after it being 4 months without any news on the wing, that is when the lawyer comes into play. that in my opinion is absolutely right, you did not honor your side of the deal, and then you come with this letter asking for a sequence of events. let people know both sides of the story before you make this post. fix the wing and put it behind all of us.
01-10-2014, 09:24 PM
#157
Let us know if you need a list of all of us in the model airplane community who feel the other guy was at fault for back taxiing his previously "disabled" aircraft down the center of the active runway. I'll sign it.
As far as fixing the wing or not that is up to you. But get it back to him ASAP either way.
Thanks for posting, I was there when it happened and now I know "the rest of the story". I think you were put in a tough position by this guy when he refused to clear the runway. But I think landing under power with this guy, or his jet, wandering around on the runway centerline did put everything at risk. But how could you know? You can't see to verify that he is doing what most all of us here expect him to do, namely stay to the edge or off the runway. I can only guess why he would taxi in the middle of the runway, to quickly clear it, so it seems he did not realize you were short final and landing. Better "spotting" could have been very helpful in avoiding this mess. Situational awareness, better spotting, better communication, and some defined runway etiquette is the goal.
FWIW, I think bringing in the lawyer is a bad move, I detest that. But if you have the guys wing and ask for a statement from him, so right or wrong, he went on the offensive. Typical behavior (his) if you ask me.
As far as fixing the wing or not that is up to you. But get it back to him ASAP either way.
Thanks for posting, I was there when it happened and now I know "the rest of the story". I think you were put in a tough position by this guy when he refused to clear the runway. But I think landing under power with this guy, or his jet, wandering around on the runway centerline did put everything at risk. But how could you know? You can't see to verify that he is doing what most all of us here expect him to do, namely stay to the edge or off the runway. I can only guess why he would taxi in the middle of the runway, to quickly clear it, so it seems he did not realize you were short final and landing. Better "spotting" could have been very helpful in avoiding this mess. Situational awareness, better spotting, better communication, and some defined runway etiquette is the goal.
FWIW, I think bringing in the lawyer is a bad move, I detest that. But if you have the guys wing and ask for a statement from him, so right or wrong, he went on the offensive. Typical behavior (his) if you ask me.
Last edited by husafreak; 01-10-2014 at 09:27 PM.
01-10-2014, 09:35 PM
#158
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Mr.Berry
You obviously could have done more to avoid this accident/situation i was there and i know that you should not of landed when there is a plane on the runway, you did not have any emergency such as a flame out or something of the like. after the accident you and Asi agreed that you will fix his wing and buy him a new spar.you took his damaged wing and promised to fix it in 2-3 weeks. I was there when you two agreed on that. after two weeks asi called you and you told him you are leaving the country for a couple of weeks. Asi was under the impression that kim will fix the wing and by the time you are going to come back, and everything will be behind us. then he understood from kim that you told kim to NOT repair the wings, and you then told asi that you need to write a letter with the sequence of events,which was not including in the deal and not even mentioned. before you would fix the wing. this is just an excuse! Asi gave you 4 months to repair the wing and buy a new spar, after it being 4 months without any news on the wing, that is when the lawyer comes into play. that in my opinion is absolutely right, you did not honor your side of the deal, and then you come with this letter asking for a sequence of events. let people know both sides of the story before you make this post. fix the wing and put it behind all of us.
You obviously could have done more to avoid this accident/situation i was there and i know that you should not of landed when there is a plane on the runway, you did not have any emergency such as a flame out or something of the like. after the accident you and Asi agreed that you will fix his wing and buy him a new spar.you took his damaged wing and promised to fix it in 2-3 weeks. I was there when you two agreed on that. after two weeks asi called you and you told him you are leaving the country for a couple of weeks. Asi was under the impression that kim will fix the wing and by the time you are going to come back, and everything will be behind us. then he understood from kim that you told kim to NOT repair the wings, and you then told asi that you need to write a letter with the sequence of events,which was not including in the deal and not even mentioned. before you would fix the wing. this is just an excuse! Asi gave you 4 months to repair the wing and buy a new spar, after it being 4 months without any news on the wing, that is when the lawyer comes into play. that in my opinion is absolutely right, you did not honor your side of the deal, and then you come with this letter asking for a sequence of events. let people know both sides of the story before you make this post. fix the wing and put it behind all of us.
01-10-2014, 10:19 PM
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So what you're saying is this type of incident could never happen to a couple of 33% Carden's? What does the fact that they were turbines have to do with anything? This type of blatant disregard for safely and courtesy displayed by the Viper pilot can happen in any form of RC flying.
01-10-2014, 11:14 PM
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Mr.Berry
You obviously could have done more to avoid this accident/situation i was there and i know that you should not of landed when there is a plane on the runway, you did not have any emergency such as a flame out or something of the like. after the accident you and Asi agreed that you will fix his wing and buy him a new spar.you took his damaged wing and promised to fix it in 2-3 weeks. I was there when you two agreed on that. after two weeks asi called you and you told him you are leaving the country for a couple of weeks. Asi was under the impression that kim will fix the wing and by the time you are going to come back, and everything will be behind us. then he understood from kim that you told kim to NOT repair the wings, and you then told asi that you need to write a letter with the sequence of events,which was not including in the deal and not even mentioned. before you would fix the wing. this is just an excuse! Asi gave you 4 months to repair the wing and buy a new spar, after it being 4 months without any news on the wing, that is when the lawyer comes into play. that in my opinion is absolutely right, you did not honor your side of the deal, and then you come with this letter asking for a sequence of events. let people know both sides of the story before you make this post. fix the wing and put it behind all of us.
You obviously could have done more to avoid this accident/situation i was there and i know that you should not of landed when there is a plane on the runway, you did not have any emergency such as a flame out or something of the like. after the accident you and Asi agreed that you will fix his wing and buy him a new spar.you took his damaged wing and promised to fix it in 2-3 weeks. I was there when you two agreed on that. after two weeks asi called you and you told him you are leaving the country for a couple of weeks. Asi was under the impression that kim will fix the wing and by the time you are going to come back, and everything will be behind us. then he understood from kim that you told kim to NOT repair the wings, and you then told asi that you need to write a letter with the sequence of events,which was not including in the deal and not even mentioned. before you would fix the wing. this is just an excuse! Asi gave you 4 months to repair the wing and buy a new spar, after it being 4 months without any news on the wing, that is when the lawyer comes into play. that in my opinion is absolutely right, you did not honor your side of the deal, and then you come with this letter asking for a sequence of events. let people know both sides of the story before you make this post. fix the wing and put it behind all of us.
01-10-2014, 11:16 PM
#161
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Based on the above account, I'm afraid I find fault with the F22 pilot for 1.) landing with another aircraft on the runway, and 2.) not calling out "Landing". I also find fault with your spotter for not telling you the position of the Viper.
I also find fault with Viper crew for not calling out , "on the runway" when the airplane was removed from the rough and placed back onto the runway. This obviously took place prior to your landing.
The F22 crew had the last opportunity to avoid the accident. Therefor the majority of the responsibility is with the F22 pilot/spotter.
I am not associated/affiliated with either party in this case. My opinion is base solely on your account.
I also find fault with Viper crew for not calling out , "on the runway" when the airplane was removed from the rough and placed back onto the runway. This obviously took place prior to your landing.
The F22 crew had the last opportunity to avoid the accident. Therefor the majority of the responsibility is with the F22 pilot/spotter.
I am not associated/affiliated with either party in this case. My opinion is base solely on your account.
I believe number one mistake was made when Viperjet pilot abandoned his flight stand, all subsequent communications become ineffective and lack-of from their part.
Last edited by marquisvns; 01-10-2014 at 11:21 PM.
01-10-2014, 11:39 PM
#162
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Both of them need to "grow up"? Did you not read that Barry was gracious enough to offer to fix the guy's wing after he knowingly taxied back on the centerline when another plane, low on fuel mind you, was landing? That kind of good nature does come from being "grown up".
S
S
01-10-2014, 11:53 PM
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Mr.Berry
You obviously could have done more to avoid this accident/situation i was there and i know that you should not of landed when there is a plane on the runway, you did not have any emergency such as a flame out or something of the like. after the accident you and Asi agreed that you will fix his wing and buy him a new spar.you took his damaged wing and promised to fix it in 2-3 weeks. I was there when you two agreed on that. after two weeks asi called you and you told him you are leaving the country for a couple of weeks. Asi was under the impression that kim will fix the wing and by the time you are going to come back, and everything will be behind us. then he understood from kim that you told kim to NOT repair the wings, and you then told asi that you need to write a letter with the sequence of events,which was not including in the deal and not even mentioned. before you would fix the wing. this is just an excuse! Asi gave you 4 months to repair the wing and buy a new spar, after it being 4 months without any news on the wing, that is when the lawyer comes into play. that in my opinion is absolutely right, you did not honor your side of the deal, and then you come with this letter asking for a sequence of events. let people know both sides of the story before you make this post. fix the wing and put it behind all of us.
You obviously could have done more to avoid this accident/situation i was there and i know that you should not of landed when there is a plane on the runway, you did not have any emergency such as a flame out or something of the like. after the accident you and Asi agreed that you will fix his wing and buy him a new spar.you took his damaged wing and promised to fix it in 2-3 weeks. I was there when you two agreed on that. after two weeks asi called you and you told him you are leaving the country for a couple of weeks. Asi was under the impression that kim will fix the wing and by the time you are going to come back, and everything will be behind us. then he understood from kim that you told kim to NOT repair the wings, and you then told asi that you need to write a letter with the sequence of events,which was not including in the deal and not even mentioned. before you would fix the wing. this is just an excuse! Asi gave you 4 months to repair the wing and buy a new spar, after it being 4 months without any news on the wing, that is when the lawyer comes into play. that in my opinion is absolutely right, you did not honor your side of the deal, and then you come with this letter asking for a sequence of events. let people know both sides of the story before you make this post. fix the wing and put it behind all of us.
01-10-2014, 11:55 PM
#164
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Mr.Berry
You obviously could have done more to avoid this accident/situation i was there and i know that you should not of landed when there is a plane on the runway, you did not have any emergency such as a flame out or something of the like. after the accident you and Asi agreed that you will fix his wing and buy him a new spar.you took his damaged wing and promised to fix it in 2-3 weeks. I was there when you two agreed on that. after two weeks asi called you and you told him you are leaving the country for a couple of weeks. Asi was under the impression that kim will fix the wing and by the time you are going to come back, and everything will be behind us. then he understood from kim that you told kim to NOT repair the wings, and you then told asi that you need to write a letter with the sequence of events,which was not including in the deal and not even mentioned. before you would fix the wing. this is just an excuse! Asi gave you 4 months to repair the wing and buy a new spar, after it being 4 months without any news on the wing, that is when the lawyer comes into play. that in my opinion is absolutely right, you did not honor your side of the deal, and then you come with this letter asking for a sequence of events. let people know both sides of the story before you make this post. fix the wing and put it behind all of us.
You obviously could have done more to avoid this accident/situation i was there and i know that you should not of landed when there is a plane on the runway, you did not have any emergency such as a flame out or something of the like. after the accident you and Asi agreed that you will fix his wing and buy him a new spar.you took his damaged wing and promised to fix it in 2-3 weeks. I was there when you two agreed on that. after two weeks asi called you and you told him you are leaving the country for a couple of weeks. Asi was under the impression that kim will fix the wing and by the time you are going to come back, and everything will be behind us. then he understood from kim that you told kim to NOT repair the wings, and you then told asi that you need to write a letter with the sequence of events,which was not including in the deal and not even mentioned. before you would fix the wing. this is just an excuse! Asi gave you 4 months to repair the wing and buy a new spar, after it being 4 months without any news on the wing, that is when the lawyer comes into play. that in my opinion is absolutely right, you did not honor your side of the deal, and then you come with this letter asking for a sequence of events. let people know both sides of the story before you make this post. fix the wing and put it behind all of us.
The emergency was trying to avoid a flame out on a 38lb (dry) plane when someone else took barry's landing spot, By the way guys, barry was into his reserve already because when we were preparing to land another jet, F100, taxied onto the runway before we could call it, the F100 took some time to take off.
Asi was given no timeframe for the repair
Asi agreed to write up a statement outlining his responsibility in the matter during a telephone call shortly after the repair agreement was discussed, Asi did not honor his side of the deal, Barry was in the process of fulfilling his part of the agreement also the agreement was made under duress due to "witnesses"(Asi's friends), Barry trying to help people and maintain his impeccable reputation and the fact that Asi's 'lawyer' was at the event handing out business cards.
I agree with other peoples comments it's unfortunate that we can't trust that if we continue go above and beyond to help Asi (because he was obviously upset that he crashed a new to him jet at one of his first events) that he won't make a mistake that results in a wreckage and blames the repaired wing for it.
I wish some more reasonable people, such as the ones here had been available at the event then most of this could probably have been avoided.
Thanks
Kim
Last edited by lightningmcnulty; 01-11-2014 at 08:35 AM. Reason: For accuracy
01-10-2014, 11:58 PM
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No he isn't, If he is who I think he is and i'm pretty sure he is, he's one of Asi's friends, he is an extremely nice gentleman, I'm not sure if he witnessed the event himself but his son was Asi's spotter so he really has to support them. both him and his son are good people, although for some unknown reason Asi's spotter is the only person who got to leave the field that day with zero responsibility.
01-11-2014, 12:29 AM
#166
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Mr.Berry
You obviously could have done more to avoid this accident/situation i was there and i know that you should not of landed when there is a plane on the runway, you did not have any emergency such as a flame out or something of the like. after the accident you and Asi agreed that you will fix his wing and buy him a new spar.you took his damaged wing and promised to fix it in 2-3 weeks. I was there when you two agreed on that. after two weeks asi called you and you told him you are leaving the country for a couple of weeks. Asi was under the impression that kim will fix the wing and by the time you are going to come back, and everything will be behind us. then he understood from kim that you told kim to NOT repair the wings, and you then told asi that you need to write a letter with the sequence of events,which was not including in the deal and not even mentioned. before you would fix the wing. this is just an excuse! Asi gave you 4 months to repair the wing and buy a new spar, after it being 4 months without any news on the wing, that is when the lawyer comes into play. that in my opinion is absolutely right, you did not honor your side of the deal, and then you come with this letter asking for a sequence of events. let people know both sides of the story before you make this post. fix the wing and put it behind all of us.
You obviously could have done more to avoid this accident/situation i was there and i know that you should not of landed when there is a plane on the runway, you did not have any emergency such as a flame out or something of the like. after the accident you and Asi agreed that you will fix his wing and buy him a new spar.you took his damaged wing and promised to fix it in 2-3 weeks. I was there when you two agreed on that. after two weeks asi called you and you told him you are leaving the country for a couple of weeks. Asi was under the impression that kim will fix the wing and by the time you are going to come back, and everything will be behind us. then he understood from kim that you told kim to NOT repair the wings, and you then told asi that you need to write a letter with the sequence of events,which was not including in the deal and not even mentioned. before you would fix the wing. this is just an excuse! Asi gave you 4 months to repair the wing and buy a new spar, after it being 4 months without any news on the wing, that is when the lawyer comes into play. that in my opinion is absolutely right, you did not honor your side of the deal, and then you come with this letter asking for a sequence of events. let people know both sides of the story before you make this post. fix the wing and put it behind all of us.
01-11-2014, 12:34 AM
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Fault on both parties here as is so often the case. But keep the layers (vultures) out of this.
1) F22 Give him his wing back either repaired or not that is up to your conscious
2) Viper. Call off the Layer
3) Both. Take a depth breath and go do something good and fun
1) F22 Give him his wing back either repaired or not that is up to your conscious
2) Viper. Call off the Layer
3) Both. Take a depth breath and go do something good and fun
01-11-2014, 07:12 AM
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Barry, give him his wing back and tell him to take a flying F,$%. You have zero liability with this incident and sounds like you were trying to the nice guy as always.
01-11-2014, 07:23 AM
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I think this person who dropped the lawyer into the mess should have to sign a waiver at all events stating we will not file a law suit if you accidentally bump his plane while you are walking by. Also, his car should be bubble wrapped, and he himself, be required to wear a helmet, knee pads, and gloves at the event. This guy is obviously the "McDonald hot chocolate spilled on lap" type.
