dalolyn

My Feedback: (7)

I have ideas but no knowledge to carry them out. Why isn't there a sensor in a lipo battery to turn off the charger in the event of a meltdown ?

dalolyn

My Feedback: (7)

after all my dynamite charger has a heat sensor for NiMH and nicd

Ron101

My Feedback: (22)

I think some of the sensitivity in the early post may be from the fact that whenever a thread like this pops up there seems to be a lipo witch hunt.
As an electric only flyer that scares me. I think old mind sets get in the way sometimes, for instance I have friends that are getting into r/c and some have been doing it for years.
When they ask me for advice on lipos I've been telling guys for years to treat them with great respect and never charge indoors and store them as safe as you can, not in the house or shop if possible.

I can tell by the glassy eyed stare I'm getting they are not going to do what I said because it's just not convenient....

The chance of a lipo that is in good condition, low I.R., good balance, in storage charge (3.7 to 3.8 per cell) just lighting on fire is extremely rare and maybe not possible at all
With that said I will still feel safer with them out of my shop in an out building

These are high performance batteries the best we have for now, so if we as modelers get the word out to our friends and fellow modelers we can use these packs safely if you follow strict guidlines and not get complacent.....

David just to learn more from this was the pack being balanced charged? with the balance connectors hooked to the charger

lopflyers

My Feedback: (12)

The y, lipos, just shot down a 777 from Malasia airlines

whaledriver

My Feedback: (154)

Not even close. If it was a lipo fire, it would not have flown for hours. Like I said, the heat/smoke from Lipo fires are such that we have 17 minutes to get it on the ground. 17 minutes times 500 mph = 142 miles.

raptureboy

Don't trust them period. Just like people are killed everyday by unloaded guns so it is with these batteries. There are to many cheap imports and too little proper knowledge about handling and using. Everyone want's to charge fast and fly hard and that is causing these things to become ticking time bombs. I have been lucky also in not having any of these go up, but with every use the odds get greater and greater something will happen. I am going to build some kind of outdoor charging and storage station. I've been through a house fire and it's not fun to stand and watch while it burns down.

AndyAndrews

dble post

AndyAndrews

It could and probably would create a larger fire. That is why you want the ammo can to be vented so the container won't blow up. Or put them in multiple fire proof lipo bags. A clay pot would work to or a cinder block laying on the concrete with a bag of sand over it.

Sluggo, I had a lipo fire in my garage. Burned itself out overnight. The residue was not corrosive to the point you describe. I had to take every single item out of the garage and wipe it down with soap and water. It took several days of solid work with all of the family (mostly my kids and some of their friends lol) helping.

I haven't seen one instance were the residue corroded anything and this happened over a year ago.

I do have chronic bronchitis. Maybe that was caused by the fumes. Or cigars.. lol.

Joe Westrich

My Feedback: (95)

I'm sure there is nothing here to completely alleviate the disappointment you have with your current situation but I can tell you that you definitely knocked the complacency out of some of your fellow modelers.

I only use lipos for my Kero start turbines since they are power hungry when starting. I am embarrassed to say that I do store them, unplugged, in the models. After reading your thread, I pulled them all out, ran a quick storage charge on them and put them in a safe place. I never had a problem with lipos and hence my complacency.

I remember reading something that BVM posted a while ago about complacency with turbine start-ups and how many of us are not as diligent anymore about having the engine hatch off and have low extinguisher readiness.

Thanks for the reminders...

dbsonic

My Feedback: (3)

"The chance of a lipo that is in good condition, low I.R., good balance, in storage charge (3.7 to 3.8 per cell) just lighting on fire is extremely rare and maybe not possible at all"

Tend to agree with Ron. If this were not true the lipo manufacturers and distribution warehouses with inventory in the thousands would not stand a chance of being able to stay in business with that many sitting on the shelves. They come to end consumers in storage state and I believe for good reason.

AndyAndrews

I'm sure you mean people get killed with a LOADED gun THINKING the guns are unloaded. Unloaded guns don't kill people. I guess one could rap you over the head with one and kill you with blunt force trauma. But generally speaking, guns without ammo can't kill anyone lol.

jw0847

Actually with flight 370; the news indicated the batteries were lithium ion not lithium polymer http://www.androidauthority.com/lith...ference-27608/
My understanding is all lithium batteries are subject to catching on fire but lithium polymer are more volatile. Lithium ion are used in laptops and the like where you don't hear much about fires but also in electric cars and commercial airplanes where you do hear of fires. Its confusing because people aren't specific when reporting.

MTK

This thread has reminded me of exactly how cautious I need to be with my older LiPos. When I go home this afternoon, I'll scrap out the old LiPos after a salty water full discharge...

Thanks to the OP

Joe Westrich

My Feedback: (95)

How are people typically killed everyday by an unloaded gun? Pistol whipped or bayonet? ................ just joking with ya

SushiHunter

From what my LHS guys have been saying, Lipo's are at the greatest risk during the time they are actually being charged, 15 to 30 minutes after the charge, involved in an accident where damage to them has occurred or exposed to high heat like sitting in a hot car or not properly charged, discharged. Other than that, they don't tend to be an issue as much. I personally only own one Lipo and one LiFe and both those are stored in a fireproof container which is stored inside the oven in my kitchen. I figure if the batteries ignite while in the container, I'd rather have them do it in the oven where it's designed to withstand 500 degree heat for a few hours. No other place in my house is built like that. Plus I live alone so there is very little chance the oven is going to be turned on with it in there.

lopflyers

My Feedback: (12)

I was flying one of my 6S 5000 , nothing 3D just sport. After 5 mins timer went off so I landed. Open the canopy, unplug the battery and it started smoking. No flames just dense gray smoke, lots of it.
i went to get the clubs fire extinguisher, it was far away of course, when I came back it has stopped. There was no damage to the plane since there was never any flames, just thick smoke.
the battery was intact when I install it in the plane, it was freshly charged the night before and it was like a yr old.
to check the ESC and motor I put another battery on the plane and it worked wonders.
I'm still baffled about why this happened

raptureboy

No, I meant exactly what I said. The first words out of someones mouth are" I thought it was unloaded" hence the reason people are killed by "unloaded guns" My 24 yr old son just learned this the hard way and I was almost the victim. He was working on his 22 in the house and pulled the trigger to release the tension on the firing pin and there was a round stuck in the chamber that had not ejected when he was unloading it(semi auto) I had just walked past him when it went off. always assume a gun is loaded and always assume a lipo could catch fire and no one will get hurt by either.

SushiHunter

Gun Safety is key.

N410DC

I think this is the best way to use a fire safe. All fireproof safes, from the small $50 Sentry models all the way up to walk-in bank vaults are rated to contain a certain about of heat for a certain amount of time. If it gets hot enough, the fire protection that the safe offers is pretty much useless.

IMO, The safest bet is to charge the batteries in a safe, while monitoring them. Keep the safe near an exterior door, and a fire extinguisher nearby (I am assuming a "C" rated extinguisher would be fine for a LiPo fire?) The hassle that in involved is well worth the lives of myself, my wife, and my 3 year old daughter.

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

I hate to see this happen to anyone. For me, give me Nicads till the day I die. It (fires/unstability) is a major reason I have so little interest in electrics. Nicads have worked for my 30 years around them, I see no need to change. Hell, even Boeing flamed a 787 with these batteries......

JQ

AndyAndrews

Typical anti gun statement. Unloaded guns don't kill. People being unsafe, like your son pulling the trigger on a loaded gun cause accidents that can kill. Take your political, liberal inspired, anti-gun talking points, crap somewhere else. This is a jet forum not an anti gun forum.

AndyAndrews

I wouldn't store them anywere inside your house. Even if your oven contained the fire it won't contain the toxic smoke. These things create a TON of smoke when they go off. All of your furniture, carpet etc would probably have to be replaced. I would store them in a lipo bag or fire proof container in your garage.

philakapd

Good news personal injury was avoided by your family and the fire department. I’m sorry for your loss of property.

I purchased a 12’ X 20’ carbonized fiber blanket and made my own LiPo storage bags. I store each battery independently within abag and then place them inside a fire resistant safe. I cycle my batteries every 6-8 weeks and keep them at the recommended stored voltage. I’m using the HiTec X4 charger along with extended balance leads and temperature probes. When charging the batteries they remain in the fire blanket and placed in a Crock Pot. I keep a bag of play sand handy if it needs to be placed atop of the Crock Pot to extinguish a fire. All of my batteries are Flightpower brand and equipped with Power Pole connectors. I never charge unattended.

Now, after discovering my Lipo batteries can catch fire ANYTIME, I don’t know where to place them for storage. The best place to store them is offsite / outside, but I don’t want the packs to be exposed to extreme cold temperatures during the winter months. I live in an area where the outside air temperature can be 90°ᶠ or -5°ᶠ. This makes long term storage of my Lipo’s difficult. I don’t want to decrease the mAh capacity or damage my expensive batteries because of extreme temperatures during the 6 month storage season.

Perhaps I should keep them in a Crock Pot and burry it in sand (below the frost line). It appears I’ll be purchasing a post hole digger before next winter. Doesn’t everyone need a post hole digger for their model aircraft hobby?

I don’t have any misconceptions my fire blankets and storage safe will contain a Lipo fire. Even if it did, the toxic smoke could destroy everything I own. I sure could use a safe and practical storage system.

Clear skies to all.

-PD

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

+1 These battery storage/safety issues are crazy. I never have heard of a 5 gallon can of kerosene spontaneously combusting in a garage or having to dig a bunker in your backyard to store your turbine oil!

Also, I can attest to the smoke problem. A super experienced former hobby shop owner had a simple 3 cell go off in his garage. It burnt the garage and 2 cars but the real damage was the smoke (as many here have said). He had to live in a hotel for 6 months while they tore basically everything out of his house but the outer walls, ripped out everything to the studs and the subfloor. All due to smoke damage.

IMHO this battery/car/house fire issue has not impacted the AMA because they are secondary insurance but I think at some point the insurance companies are going to have something to say in this. His insurance company did a pretty thorough investigation and was seriously considering going after either the battery company or the charger company, I am not sure how that ended up I will ask him next time I see him.

I moved all of my batteries last night thanks to this thread, so I agree David you have done a service by posting. Your RV was a fixture at our events! I hope you get another or fix this one back up.

Hughes500E

My Feedback: (16)

Not all chargers can give you the internal resistance of each cell. You have to have a fairly significant charger to obtain this information. That said, I do have a Hyperion charger that constantly charges 2 x 5s packs at 2C from 2 12 volt deep cycle batteries in series for 24 volts. Thankfully I have never had an incident. I am wondering though, some of you are saying if the IR is too high you could have a potentially bad pack. What would the internal resistance be to know that your pack is unsafe?

Thanks