Another lithium polymer fire
03-30-2014, 11:51 AM
#151
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03-30-2014, 01:31 PM
#153
Typical anti gun statement. Unloaded guns don't kill. People being unsafe, like your son pulling the trigger on a loaded gun cause accidents that can kill. Take your political, liberal inspired, anti-gun talking points, crap somewhere else. This is a jet forum not an anti gun forum.
Raptureboy,
Don't worry. I'm sure most people got what you were saying. I didn't read anything political at all in your statement--just that complacency 'kills'; i.e. the 'unloaded' gun that kills the owner or the innocent bystander; the car that 'wasn't there a second ago' that kills the pedestrian because they thought it was one way when it was another. Subtleties are often lost on some around here....
03-31-2014, 12:05 AM
#155
Got my storage idea figured out.
A cheap galvanised toolbox with a lid that doesn't seal (to vent gas/smoke).
My wife plays tennis & 4 tennis balls come packed in a sealed steel can with a tear off lid.
I'll rivet these to the bottom of the toolbox & slip each lipo into individual cans, that way if one
detonates hopefully it won't spread to the others.
Mind you, I've never had a lipo catch fire yet but it can't hurt to play it safe. - John.
A cheap galvanised toolbox with a lid that doesn't seal (to vent gas/smoke).
My wife plays tennis & 4 tennis balls come packed in a sealed steel can with a tear off lid.
I'll rivet these to the bottom of the toolbox & slip each lipo into individual cans, that way if one
detonates hopefully it won't spread to the others.
Mind you, I've never had a lipo catch fire yet but it can't hurt to play it safe. - John.
03-31-2014, 09:47 AM
#156
Glad nobody was hurt in the fire. This is the main reason I don't use Lipo batteries. Even if they are unplugged from the charger they can still burn your house down. They are just too dangerous. What's worse, is most manufacturers market them to kids, for their r/c cars and electric airplanes. They last longer, go faster, more powerful, et al. Most 14 year olds don't know the danger of these batteries. Scary to think what may happen to someone. Where are you supposed to store these things? Out in the middle of the yard, so if they decide to self-destruct they won't burn your house or car down. I can't believe I'm going to suggest this, but they really should be pulled off the market until they can be made safer. This fire wasn't the result of any user error.
03-31-2014, 10:11 AM
#157
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This Info always has me thinking. Why are there no sensors in a charger that can detect when there is a LIPO malfunction. My Dewalt charger will not charge unless all the conditions are right. It will not try to charge a bad battery. Although they are Li-Ion isn't that similar technology.
03-31-2014, 10:19 AM
#158
Not sure where you heard this, but not as cargo. These batteries are Cargo Aircraft Only (CAO). As a cargo pilot, I am expendable and can carry these by the thousands on my 747, but not allowed on passenger planes. BTW, two Boeing 747-400's (UPS and Asiana) have been lost due to battery fires in the cargo compartment. We figure we have 17 minutes to get it on the ground, or in the ocean. This is about the only situation, where I would be putting a four engine plane in the water.
03-31-2014, 10:50 AM
#160
Just picked up two more ammo cans today from my local Army/Navy store.
Even so, I am also wondering how I can find a way to store these lipos away from my house, as the garage and workshop are both part of the house, not stand-alone structures. I'm thinking about getting an outdoor weather resistant storage unit, but as has been mentioned in an earlier post, that brings the swings in outside temperature and moisture in to play.
As far as the smoke damage from a lipo cook-off, I saw the result of it in a bud's trailer. It, too, burned itself out, and was not discovered until the next morning. Pretty much anything metal in the trailer ended up corroded. The door hinges looked like they had been soaked in salt water. There was also some corrosion damage to metal components in the jets that were stored in the trailer...not good. The smoke is bad juju.
Even so, I am also wondering how I can find a way to store these lipos away from my house, as the garage and workshop are both part of the house, not stand-alone structures. I'm thinking about getting an outdoor weather resistant storage unit, but as has been mentioned in an earlier post, that brings the swings in outside temperature and moisture in to play.
As far as the smoke damage from a lipo cook-off, I saw the result of it in a bud's trailer. It, too, burned itself out, and was not discovered until the next morning. Pretty much anything metal in the trailer ended up corroded. The door hinges looked like they had been soaked in salt water. There was also some corrosion damage to metal components in the jets that were stored in the trailer...not good. The smoke is bad juju.
Gerry
03-31-2014, 11:58 AM
#161
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Or a grill, just to keep the batteries. I stored them in the grill (under the shade during the flying season). The grill is away from the house, but it was not a good idea. Since I work out of my home office, I use the grill almost daily if the temperature is 36 or higher:-) Maybe a dedicated cheap grill just to house lipos. I can tell you they were kept dry inside the grill. I just placed a piece of plywood over the cooking surface of the actual gill (to avoid staining), and the lipo bags and one ammo box on top of the plywood. Gerry
03-31-2014, 01:03 PM
#163
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That's true. Do they become more prone to failure after they have been put into use (e.g. after they have been charged/discharged a few times?) They seem to be more prone to failure due to damage (e.g. via dropping, or in a crash.) I would think this is more likely to happen after they have been purchased.
03-31-2014, 02:43 PM
#165
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Wouldn't venting the ammo box provide the oxygen for the fire to burn and allow the bulk of the smoke to get out. Or is it the ammo box couldn't contain the fire and explode? Seems to me it would be better not vented if it was air tight and strong enough, at least for storage.
03-31-2014, 02:46 PM
#166
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Definately sorry to see this happen. We can all learn from this. I dont know if this matters but at what C rating was this at while it was charging? I know of a few people who like to charge at the highest or nearly highest the manuafactures say you can, but have seen many batteries destroyed because of it.
03-31-2014, 03:20 PM
#168
Wouldn't venting the ammo box provide the oxygen for the fire to burn and allow the bulk of the smoke to get out. Or is it the ammo box couldn't contain the fire and explode? Seems to me it would be better not vented if it was air tight and strong enough, at least for storage.
Remember the pressure cookers used with just a little gunpowder from fireworks in the Boston bombings? These bombs were created using a pressure cooker that was air tight.
Most Ammo cans are air tight and sealed similar to a pressure cooker. With a latch.
I've got some extra ammo cans. I think I will test it (from a good distance outside mind you) by punching a battery with a nail and latching it.
Last edited by AndyAndrews; 03-31-2014 at 03:30 PM.
03-31-2014, 03:30 PM
#169
Here are some guys intentionally igniting Lipo's in an ammo box, its unclear if the holes on top were there before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jwS2puM800
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jwS2puM800
03-31-2014, 03:52 PM
#170
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Quote: "Here are some guys intentionally igniting Lipo's in an ammo box, its unclear if the holes on top were there before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jwS2puM800 "
--This is the kind of (simi) scientific testing that has real value when discussing a subject such at this.--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jwS2puM800 "
--This is the kind of (simi) scientific testing that has real value when discussing a subject such at this.--
Last edited by mitchilito; 03-31-2014 at 03:54 PM.
03-31-2014, 05:58 PM
#171
We originally set some off to test the box not thinking about vents and all that happened was the gasket blew out and it self vented. Tried it a few times with the same results. I then read about the possibility of the box exploding so we cut vents and tried a few more tests. Strangely enough the results were about the same with a little more smoke coming out the vented ones. Both contained the fire.
Dennis
Dennis
03-31-2014, 06:34 PM
#172
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That sucked dave.but its a sobering reminder that we should never charge unattended as for storagei havent found the best solution yer.one idea I saw was to charge in a container with sand on top.sounds ok but I guess we just do the best we can .I used to have a house with a shed and stored them there in lipo sacks.
03-31-2014, 07:00 PM
#173
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Hello Dave. Sorry for your loss. I charge and store mine In afireproof bag. I don't trust em. I charge them on the concrete floor in my garage and never leave till they are done. Then I leave them on the floor away from everything. It's amazing how quick they can start to burn. Hope your insurance covers your loss. Glad no one was hurt.
04-01-2014, 05:58 AM
#174
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It can happen to other type cells too. I was charging a 5 cell NIMH receiver battery while in my 1/4 scale Pup. The plane was on my bench in the garage and I left it for a few hours. I smelled smoke when I got home. I mistakenly set the charger to LIPO mode instead of NIMH. Fortunately the charging stopped after the cells blew apart. The foam wrap and surrounding wood was all charred. The battery was up against the fuel tank, but did not melt thru it. The battery fumes are very corrosive and I ended up replacing all my wiring and switches.
Last edited by edokarlb; 04-01-2014 at 06:26 AM.
04-01-2014, 07:34 AM
#175
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This is where some chargers are better than others because the reverse is particularly bad. Charging a lipo with a nicd/nimh program.or mode... honest mistake but nasty overvoltage consequences. Chargers that check the voltage and have you verify cell count before issuing the charge are must have IMO. an important a safeguard
