ww2birds

My Feedback: (14)

Like many 18MZ users, I have really enjoyed using this radio, and have been delighted with the capabilities of the telemetry system. I've been migrating each of my airplanes from the 6014 to 7008 so that I can use telemetry functions.

It has been great to see the new sensors being released by Futaba here in the US and Robbe/Futaba in Europe .. and it's spawned a great ecosystem of aftermarket products we can use with the Sbus2 input, such as the projects Carsten has been showing us recently such as the ASSI system, and Gaspar's very nice telemetry adapter for Xicoy ECUs.

My hope is that Futaba sees this growing interest and growing partner movement of compatible sensors as a driver of more utility and popularity of their products in our community.

As I've been using the telemetry system, a few ideas keep coming up ... some from my own use and some from others on the forum here. I'd like to get a discussion going and hopefully our friends from Futaba will take notice and perhaps we can see the good ideas in a future release of the 18MZ firmware.

Here are a few to start:

1) It would be great to have some way to "arm" a sensor alarm so it would not start alerting until armed. The system should wake up with the arming-enabled alarms in a standby state. For example, if we have a pitot/static airspeed sensor set to a minimum safe airspeed, you would not want it to be armed until just after takeoff .. you don't want it buzzing away while taxiiing out. Then once it goes off, you might have it sound for a limited time, or shut off when acknowledged (see next idea) Similar thoughts for other parameters, e.g. turbine pump voltage or exhaust gas temp being used as flame-out warnings - you get the idea.

2) Once an alarm goes off, it would be good to have some way to acknowledge it and shut it off. Think of a low-fuel sensor reading data from the turbine ECU link. Perhaps using the trainer momenty switch as an "ack".

3) This one might be reaching a little .. but ... how about a way to use a telemetry function to cause some action back to the control system .. e.g. act like a switch or be part of a mix or an offset mix. Think of a plane with Carsten's new air pressure sensor .. reading out on the TX screen .. with a low-pressure alarm that also causes the gear to lower. A telemetry-enabled gear failsafe.

4) How about some "generic" sensor types. Today, the folks who make third party telemetry sensors can only use the built-in sensor types (e.g. air pressure in PSI reading out as temperature in degrees C). Could we have a generic sensor type where we can enter the text string for the units, and do some simple scaling (e.g. output = input * A + B) where we can set A and B. This will cover a lot of cases and be really really nice!

Please let us know your thoughts, as well as perhaps tell us some interesting ways you are using telemetry today.

thanks
Dave McQueeney

highhorse

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks Dave, this should be a very helpful thread indeed.

i have two very simple wishes:
1) A Futaba fuel flow/fuel used sensor
2) A Futaba watts/amps/amps remaining sensor

if neither of the above, then I'd like the bpname of a US Robbe distributor.

Jeti already has their poop together on this stuff, and I'm feeling let down by my 18mz, as nice as it is.

Thanks all!

Don

DrScoles

My Feedback: (18)

I just want it to be easier to program! The instructions suck...wait..... Not sure there are any...lol. I b
ought three sensors for my corsair, not looking forward to programming them all in.

ww2birds

My Feedback: (14)

Hi Don,

Most of the telemetry sensors that do fuel data (that I have seen) read it from the ECU .. you can do that with Gaspar's ECU and also Jetcat on the 18MZ. For amps, the only sensor Robbe/Futaba offers that I know of is meant for main motor batteries on electrics and has too large a full scale current reading to be very accurate on RX or ECU batts .. but I think Carsten might chime in here on what he can do with his ASSI.

Dave

highhorse

My Feedback: (2)

thanks Dave. I don't want a sensor that makes guesstimates from the ECU based upon pump voltage, I'd rather have a genuine fuel flow measurement. It's been done elsewhere, just not by Futaba. Secondly, the amps/watts sensor I want is primarily for electric powered planes. Again, its done elsewhere but Futaba has dropped the ball on this as well. They offer a volts sensor, which is useless in electrics or for 123 chemistry.

highhorse

My Feedback: (2)

Yup, that too. It's ridiculous how convoluted the sensor programming seems to be.

FenderBean

Been with futaba for over 25 years and its always been this way, just not very good instructions. I want fuel telemetry for my jets!

Gary Arthur

My Feedback: (29)

Using the miliamps from the pump is just as accurate as using a flow sensor. Pumps are a positive displacment style and at a given KV, you get pump rotations per power used. No different than a flow sensor turning a signal indicator.

ww2birds

My Feedback: (14)

Ah, I understand. Before the aftermarket on telemetry got going, I looked around a lot for a true mass flow sensor to use with turbine fuel flow. I never found one that was suitable for the flow range, size, weight, etc. I am certain that the guys who are doing the aftermarket sensors could use one if we could point them to a good source for the bare sensor.

This parameter is not a really good candidate for just reading a voltage on the TX since you need to integrate the reading with respect to time to get the actual fuel flow .. so it would need some programming in the sensor electronics or onboard code.

I know that some folks have looked at imitating the hall effect sensors like the ones in a Keurig coffee machine to have a floating magnet in the fuel tank (presumably constrained inside of some sort of tubing to do a fuel-low or a few discrete fuel level warnings) .. but that seems like a kludge to me and would have all sorts of issues with aircraft attitude.

There have been other projects looking (with an optical sensor of some sort) at the switch from liquid fuel to bubbles to air in the line that connects main and secondary tanks to give a one-shot warning of the emptying of the main tanks.

So clearly the importance of knowing this parameter is driving a lot of innovation.

I have always presumed that the pump voltage and pump flow are very predictably related, probably very close to linear, and that should be reliable once calibrated...

BTW, Robbe (via emcotec in Germany) does offer a current sensor that is perfect for large electric motor current sensing: http://shop.rc-electronic.com/ROBBE-...=RF1678&p=2403

150A full scale.

The also seem to have a new pitotstatic airspeed sensor listed... and Futaba has been supporting the Robbe sensor type too...

thanks
Dave

highhorse

My Feedback: (2)

Nice theory, but it doesn't seem to work out that way in practice.

Bob_B

My Feedback: (11)

Robbe/Futaba offers this e fuel gauge in Europe not sure why they are not selling it here yet.

FenderBean

do u have a link for this, I know xicoy has an item that gives u fuel flow but it uses a different name in the radio

stelioss

Hi this is great thread. How about a stand alone air sensor on psi/bar stand alone air speed sensor and a fuel sensor .And what about futaba software update for 18mz to activate a switch or a free channel on alarm ex.if air presure go down activate the gear channel (no need for onboard air failsafe) or if voltage go down activate a second spare battery so many options of redandancy sorry for my english
thanks all

Jeti USA

Have you guys considered adding standalone telemetry?
You can have all sensors made by jeti and monitor almost anything.
At this time Jeti offers Amp, V, Capacity, High, Speed, Temperature, Fuel Flow....

We used to use the Jeti Telemetry with Futaba 8FG radio system to monitor speed and battery mah consumption.
Just use any receiver (every Jeti Rx is Full Range Transceiver) with JetiBox profi and any of the sensors
Video
http://vimeo.com/46233596#at=0

Details
http://www.espritmodel.com/jeti-tele...rogrammer.aspx


http://www.espritmodel.com/jeti-tele...ow-gas-ex.aspx


http://www.espritmodel.com/jeti-dupl...telemetry.aspx

bjr_93tz

The FIA can help you with a fuel flow sensor. Might not be too reliable though I'd recommend the Red Bull verson if you could get your hands on one.

Bob_B

My Feedback: (11)

it was listed above

http://shop.rc-electronic.com/ROBBE-...=RF1678&p=2403

FenderBean

Jeti stand alone defeats the purpose

FenderBean

Has anyone tried this with the 18MZ? The instructions show the same data but its label different.
http://www.dreamworksrc.com/catalog/...utaba-Jeti-Mpx

Jeti USA

Works well with Jeti.

I really hope Futaba can get they act together.
We used to sell 1-2 radios a month, since Jeti maybe 1x radio every 4 months.

FenderBean

I asked if someone used it with the 18mz, I am glad you guys are doing well but I have no desire to switch to another radio.

Carsten Groen

"Jeti-USA" it would be nice if this thread could be kept on topic ?
I'm sure that Jeti radios are all great, but we are a few guys that are using the 18MZ.

Carsten Groen

Dave,
excellent description! This would take care of a lot of interesing sensors that could be made (and yes, the flowmeter has crossed my mind many times, I even have the flow sensor here, would just need to rework a tiny fraction of my pressure sensor for it to work )

stevekott

+1 on 1, 2, 3 and 4 !!!

This is a Flagship radio. These are all relatively small but important software changes.

I use the CB Elektronics IAS sensor and the Carsten ASSI. I need to keep switching between Metric and Imperial units between models.

I also use the Robbe Current/Milliamp Hour sensor in series with my turbine fuel pump as a redneck fuel available sensor. But I have to remember 410ma means out of fuel.

I really like the idea of an acknowledge switch. I've flown full scale planes with Warning Mutes. Once the alarm goes off you can hit the Mute button so you can have 30 seconds of silence while sorting out the problem. After the 30 seconds the horn starts honking again until you hit the mute again. That way you never forget you have a problem but the alarm doesn't become annoying.

Another thing I would like to see is a "Talking Timer" calling out "One Minute" ... "Thirty Seconds". It is never easy to see your jet and timer at the same time and if you look down at the timer .. well your jet might not be there when you look up. At a busy jet rally this would give you the option to land a little early with a lot of other guys in the air that are going to want to land at about the same time.

How do we get this info to Futaba? I would imaging they want to continue to be the Premier radio and not have Jeti pass them up.

Steve

FenderBean

so u tie the current sensor into your pump and just relate full to MAHs used? I can deal with it reading something different since I would set an alarm for the levels I wanted to be alerted about.

mick15

It couldn't be easier Steve go onto their website and register your request. I asked for a zero volt warning and got it.

m