My FEJ story
04-08-2014, 07:21 AM
#153
A bud did the same with R/C Speed Boats. Put his company logo on it, every time it sank.....deducted. Hey, are we onto something here? :-)
04-08-2014, 07:31 AM
#154
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Erik, very sorry for the loss of your UL. That really sucks, especially when it's not clear what caused the crash. Were you able to see if there was a signal loss through the PowerBox? I hope you find out the source of your crash.
FWIW, I can relate to your RC pain. After my FEJ F-14 crash, I lost my SM A-10 after I had an engine quit. Those are the breaks.
FWIW, I can relate to your RC pain. After my FEJ F-14 crash, I lost my SM A-10 after I had an engine quit. Those are the breaks.
04-08-2014, 07:49 AM
#155
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Exactly what the 'cus was doing. The cars carried his company logo as a "sponsor". Wrote off as marketing.Still.......a f'n horrible write off.
A bud did the same with R/C Speed Boats. Put his company logo on it, every time it sank.....deducted. Hey, are we onto something here? :-)
A bud did the same with R/C Speed Boats. Put his company logo on it, every time it sank.....deducted. Hey, are we onto something here? :-)
Yes exactly, however, if you do this too much you may get audited
04-08-2014, 10:04 AM
#156
@rog, I was racing before I got into giant scale RC. Decided to get back to it between RC flying.
@falconwings, while losing the F-14 sucked, my issue was with the abysmal customer service.
@sushihunter, I posted about it in one of the SM A-10 threads. One of my engines quit and the plane snapped. I almost saved it, but I ran out of luck and skill on final.
@falconwings, while losing the F-14 sucked, my issue was with the abysmal customer service.
@sushihunter, I posted about it in one of the SM A-10 threads. One of my engines quit and the plane snapped. I almost saved it, but I ran out of luck and skill on final.
04-08-2014, 11:21 AM
#157
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@rog, I was racing before I got into giant scale RC. Decided to get back to it between RC flying.
@falconwings, while losing the F-14 sucked, my issue was with the abysmal customer service.
@sushihunter, I posted about it in one of the SM A-10 threads. One of my engines quit and the plane snapped. I almost saved it, but I ran out of luck and skill on final.
@falconwings, while losing the F-14 sucked, my issue was with the abysmal customer service.
@sushihunter, I posted about it in one of the SM A-10 threads. One of my engines quit and the plane snapped. I almost saved it, but I ran out of luck and skill on final.
04-08-2014, 11:41 AM
#158
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@rog, I was racing before I got into giant scale RC. Decided to get back to it between RC flying.
@falconwings, while losing the F-14 sucked, my issue was with the abysmal customer service.
@sushihunter, I posted about it in one of the SM A-10 threads. One of my engines quit and the plane snapped. I almost saved it, but I ran out of luck and skill on final.
@falconwings, while losing the F-14 sucked, my issue was with the abysmal customer service.
@sushihunter, I posted about it in one of the SM A-10 threads. One of my engines quit and the plane snapped. I almost saved it, but I ran out of luck and skill on final.
04-08-2014, 11:46 AM
#159
Last edited by dubd; 04-08-2014 at 11:50 AM.
04-08-2014, 12:29 PM
#160
The SM A-10 with engines bigger than 100n will pitch up and snap towards the ground when the engine quits. It has been a consistent phenomena with other single engine out events with the SM A-10. The Mibo A-10 seems to handle flameouts better (situation dependent) from what I've been told. The key is to recognize that an engine quit and come to idle, which I did, and was able to level the plane and swing her back towards the runway. I was running out of energy, so I gradually applied throttle. Bad move as she snapped into the ground as I applied power. Twin engine planes hate me.
On twins, when you see that you lost an engine, you've GOT to stay at idle or kill the still running engine.
That instinct to just give a touch of throttle when you think you've just made it.... kills it.
I've done enough prop twins to know that I don't want to mess with them with turbines.
And you put so much work in building that A-10 D!
04-08-2014, 01:20 PM
#161
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The SM A-10 with engines bigger than 100n will pitch up and snap towards the ground when the engine quits. It has been a consistent phenomena with other single engine out events with the SM A-10. The Mibo A-10 seems to handle flameouts better (situation dependent) from what I've been told. The key is to recognize that an engine quit and come to idle, which I did, and was able to level the plane and swing her back towards the runway. I was running out of energy, so I gradually applied throttle. Bad move as she snapped into the ground as I applied power. Twin engine planes hate me.
And you built this A-10 yourself? Wow, I don't think I'd even want to try something like that with a turbine. I don't have enough lessons learned in the field of turbine.
Oh and before I forget, someone mentioned GTR. I love those, ever since living in Japan and being around the Skylines in the late 80's and early 90s.
Last edited by SushiHunter; 04-08-2014 at 01:30 PM.
04-08-2014, 02:19 PM
#163
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Could a pilot set up flight conditions on the radio to where say condition 1 is normal both turbines running, condition 2 is if starboard turbine is off with port turbine running, condition 3 is if port turbine is off with starboard turbine running? Each condition programmed to move rudder, elevator, ailerons, etc. to appropriate setting for such condition. I would think the plane could fly on only one power plant in case of emergency landing situation. Just would take some pre-adjustment settings of the control surfaces.
Last edited by SushiHunter; 04-08-2014 at 02:21 PM.
04-08-2014, 02:29 PM
#164
According to SM, engines with more 100N thrust makes recovery difficult with their A-10. As I mentioned earlier, this is not necessarily the case with the Mibo A-10 where guys have flown the plane around without even knowing the engine had quit.
04-08-2014, 02:56 PM
#165
We are kinda hijacking Erik's thread, but this topic has been beaten to death all over RCU.
Get some twin experience of any kind and you will see what a handful they can be when an engine dies.
Full opposite rudder doesn't always work, full opposite aileron doesn't always work, etc.....
The closest thing I can think of for good training, other than a simulator ofcourse, would be something along the lines of landing your heavy wingloaded jet in a strong crosswind when you are using EVERY surface (including throttle as it becomes another "surface" on approach) to keep it in line with the center line of a narrow runway (like buttonwillow) i.e. crabbing it in.
After that landing, you will feel like you had a final exam in non-linear multivariable differential equations.
TRUST me, twins with an engine out are nothing to shake the proverbial stick at. The best you can hope for is that you are moving fast enough that air moving over your surfaces will keep it straight enough to fly and line up with the runway because the instant you get slow, it will flip on it's back and kill itself.
Go buy a gas or glow twin (P-38, B-25, etc...), electrics have been much more reliable, and fly one of those around. You will spend ~$1-2k vs $15-$25k. And I bet that $1-2k will still cause you to pucker up REALLY fast with an engine out.
Here is a P-38 with an engine out and the flip of death right around 1 min.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBDLP4onEuY
Here's an A-10 were the pilot actually does a pretty good job handling an engine out after take off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mminECOwTk0
I tried to find more for you, but I got lazy after 6 pages looking on youtube for another A-10.
This is just something you have to live with when you're messing with twins!
Get some twin experience of any kind and you will see what a handful they can be when an engine dies.
Full opposite rudder doesn't always work, full opposite aileron doesn't always work, etc.....
The closest thing I can think of for good training, other than a simulator ofcourse, would be something along the lines of landing your heavy wingloaded jet in a strong crosswind when you are using EVERY surface (including throttle as it becomes another "surface" on approach) to keep it in line with the center line of a narrow runway (like buttonwillow) i.e. crabbing it in.
After that landing, you will feel like you had a final exam in non-linear multivariable differential equations.
TRUST me, twins with an engine out are nothing to shake the proverbial stick at. The best you can hope for is that you are moving fast enough that air moving over your surfaces will keep it straight enough to fly and line up with the runway because the instant you get slow, it will flip on it's back and kill itself.
Go buy a gas or glow twin (P-38, B-25, etc...), electrics have been much more reliable, and fly one of those around. You will spend ~$1-2k vs $15-$25k. And I bet that $1-2k will still cause you to pucker up REALLY fast with an engine out.
Here is a P-38 with an engine out and the flip of death right around 1 min.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBDLP4onEuY
Here's an A-10 were the pilot actually does a pretty good job handling an engine out after take off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mminECOwTk0
I tried to find more for you, but I got lazy after 6 pages looking on youtube for another A-10.
This is just something you have to live with when you're messing with twins!
04-08-2014, 03:29 PM
#166
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Bud,
I'm going to have to keep the answer to that question private, between FEJ, and myself. I can tell you that James said that they will evaluate each claim/complaint on an individual basis, and if they feel a loss is a result of a manufacturing defect, they will take the appropriate action. Bottom line, I'm not dancing here, it's just not my place to say. I can also say that I am very satisfied with their response to my situation. Regards,
Erik
I'm going to have to keep the answer to that question private, between FEJ, and myself. I can tell you that James said that they will evaluate each claim/complaint on an individual basis, and if they feel a loss is a result of a manufacturing defect, they will take the appropriate action. Bottom line, I'm not dancing here, it's just not my place to say. I can also say that I am very satisfied with their response to my situation. Regards,
Erik
04-08-2014, 04:14 PM
#167
We are kinda hijacking Erik's thread, but this topic has been beaten to death all over RCU.
Get some twin experience of any kind and you will see what a handful they can be when an engine dies.
Full opposite rudder doesn't always work, full opposite aileron doesn't always work, etc.....
The closest thing I can think of for good training, other than a simulator ofcourse, would be something along the lines of landing your heavy wingloaded jet in a strong crosswind when you are using EVERY surface (including throttle as it becomes another "surface" on approach) to keep it in line with the center line of a narrow runway (like buttonwillow) i.e. crabbing it in.
After that landing, you will feel like you had a final exam in non-linear multivariable differential equations.
TRUST me, twins with an engine out are nothing to shake the proverbial stick at. The best you can hope for is that you are moving fast enough that air moving over your surfaces will keep it straight enough to fly and line up with the runway because the instant you get slow, it will flip on it's back and kill itself.
Go buy a gas or glow twin (P-38, B-25, etc...), electrics have been much more reliable, and fly one of those around. You will spend ~$1-2k vs $15-$25k. And I bet that $1-2k will still cause you to pucker up REALLY fast with an engine out.
Here is a P-38 with an engine out and the flip of death right around 1 min.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBDLP4onEuY
Here's an A-10 were the pilot actually does a pretty good job handling an engine out after take off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mminECOwTk0
I tried to find more for you, but I got lazy after 6 pages looking on youtube for another A-10.
This is just something you have to live with when you're messing with twins!
Get some twin experience of any kind and you will see what a handful they can be when an engine dies.
Full opposite rudder doesn't always work, full opposite aileron doesn't always work, etc.....
The closest thing I can think of for good training, other than a simulator ofcourse, would be something along the lines of landing your heavy wingloaded jet in a strong crosswind when you are using EVERY surface (including throttle as it becomes another "surface" on approach) to keep it in line with the center line of a narrow runway (like buttonwillow) i.e. crabbing it in.
After that landing, you will feel like you had a final exam in non-linear multivariable differential equations.
TRUST me, twins with an engine out are nothing to shake the proverbial stick at. The best you can hope for is that you are moving fast enough that air moving over your surfaces will keep it straight enough to fly and line up with the runway because the instant you get slow, it will flip on it's back and kill itself.
Go buy a gas or glow twin (P-38, B-25, etc...), electrics have been much more reliable, and fly one of those around. You will spend ~$1-2k vs $15-$25k. And I bet that $1-2k will still cause you to pucker up REALLY fast with an engine out.
Here is a P-38 with an engine out and the flip of death right around 1 min.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBDLP4onEuY
Here's an A-10 were the pilot actually does a pretty good job handling an engine out after take off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mminECOwTk0
I tried to find more for you, but I got lazy after 6 pages looking on youtube for another A-10.
This is just something you have to live with when you're messing with twins!
Years ago, I was flying Piper Aerostars (600 series). On a hot day with a full load, those planes could not maintain altitude if one engine quit. Trying to do so would stall the plane into a death spin. The best performance I think I remember was a 50' per/minute descent rate (at about 85-95 kts.) if an engine quit.
With any real plane, the pilot has his hands full when an engine quits, and you really have to "feel" what's going on in order to handle it.
So, with these twin engine R/C planes no one knows what the plane can do if an engine were to quit, and you can't be inside the plane to feel what's going on. The best recourse I can see would be to reduce power on the good engine, start a descent and set up for an emergency landing straight ahead .... Do not try to cliimb, turn, maintain altitude, or try to make the runway. Assume that every twin engine R/C plane cannot maintain flight with one engine out.
Last edited by Airplanes400; 04-08-2014 at 05:02 PM.
04-08-2014, 06:29 PM
#168
Also, not all twin engine aircraft can maintain altitude if one engine quits. And depending on fuel, passengers and density altitude, some twins that can maintain altitude with one pilot aboard and full fuel cannot maintain altitude with three or four passengers. Trying to maintain altitude and not knowing the engine-out performance of an aircraft is the main killer.
Years ago, I was flying Piper Aerostars (600 series). On a hot day with a full load, those planes could not maintain altitude if one engine quit. Trying to do so would stall the plane into a death spin. The best performance I think I remember was a 50' per/minute descent rate (at about 85-95 kts.) if an engine quit.
With any real plane, the pilot has his hands full when an engine quits, and you really have to "feel" what's going on in order to handle it.
So, with these twin engine R/C planes no one knows what the plane can do if an engine were to quit, and you can't be inside the plane to feel what's going on. The best recourse I can see would be to reduce power on the good engine, start a descent and set up for an emergency landing straight ahead .... Do not try to cliimb, turn, maintain altitude, or try to make the runway. Assume that every twin engine R/C plane cannot maintain flight with one engine out.
Years ago, I was flying Piper Aerostars (600 series). On a hot day with a full load, those planes could not maintain altitude if one engine quit. Trying to do so would stall the plane into a death spin. The best performance I think I remember was a 50' per/minute descent rate (at about 85-95 kts.) if an engine quit.
With any real plane, the pilot has his hands full when an engine quits, and you really have to "feel" what's going on in order to handle it.
So, with these twin engine R/C planes no one knows what the plane can do if an engine were to quit, and you can't be inside the plane to feel what's going on. The best recourse I can see would be to reduce power on the good engine, start a descent and set up for an emergency landing straight ahead .... Do not try to cliimb, turn, maintain altitude, or try to make the runway. Assume that every twin engine R/C plane cannot maintain flight with one engine out.
04-08-2014, 06:39 PM
#169
My nice guy hat is off. Genius, how many people have come here and shared their loss. I only know of Dantley. I know Boli saved someones 18 at an event also. Have you ever heard of a manufacturer replacing the turbine and equipment, even if it's a proven factory defect? You can LOL, and hit 1000 question marks, but do you have any personal experience with the situation, or are you just being a blowhard?
04-08-2014, 06:48 PM
#170
My nice guy hat is off. Genius, how many people have come here and shared their loss. I only know of Dantley. I know Boli saved someones 18 at an event also. Have you ever heard of a manufacturer replacing the turbine and equipment, even if it's a proven factory defect? You can LOL, and hit 1000 question marks, but do you have any personal experience with the situation, or are you just being a blowhard?
04-08-2014, 07:01 PM
#171
Andy,
You didn't post inflammatory crap. You've been a gentleman. I'm sorry for your loss. Some of the biggest mouths here have no dog in the fight. At the end of the day, I had to decide whether I wanted to even proceed with a replacement. I chose to go forward. More than one of my friends told me to accept the jet, then sell it to recoup my losses. May be a very prescient outlook, but not my style. I'm going to fly it every time I'm out, and not baby it. I will share the results honestly with the community.
WRT your situation,maybe you should try to talk to them again. Maybe the outcome will be better for you. All the best,
Erik
You didn't post inflammatory crap. You've been a gentleman. I'm sorry for your loss. Some of the biggest mouths here have no dog in the fight. At the end of the day, I had to decide whether I wanted to even proceed with a replacement. I chose to go forward. More than one of my friends told me to accept the jet, then sell it to recoup my losses. May be a very prescient outlook, but not my style. I'm going to fly it every time I'm out, and not baby it. I will share the results honestly with the community.
WRT your situation,maybe you should try to talk to them again. Maybe the outcome will be better for you. All the best,
Erik
04-08-2014, 07:08 PM
#172
Andy,
You didn't post inflammatory crap. You've been a gentleman. I'm sorry for your loss. Some of the biggest mouths here have no dog in the fight. At the end of the day, I had to decide whether I wanted to even proceed with a replacement. I chose to go forward. More than one of my friends told me to accept the jet, then sell it to recoup my losses. May be a very prescient outlook, but not my style. I'm going to fly it every time I'm out, and not baby it. I will share the results honestly with the community.
WRT your situation,maybe you should try to talk to them again. Maybe the outcome will be better for you. All the best,
Erik
You didn't post inflammatory crap. You've been a gentleman. I'm sorry for your loss. Some of the biggest mouths here have no dog in the fight. At the end of the day, I had to decide whether I wanted to even proceed with a replacement. I chose to go forward. More than one of my friends told me to accept the jet, then sell it to recoup my losses. May be a very prescient outlook, but not my style. I'm going to fly it every time I'm out, and not baby it. I will share the results honestly with the community.
WRT your situation,maybe you should try to talk to them again. Maybe the outcome will be better for you. All the best,
Erik
You don't have to explain anything regarding your decision to try to make this work. I applaud your efforts to do what you can with the few resources you had to work with. And I applaud your decision to post the results of that outcome. The bottom line is that we all really want the same thing. We want to have fun with the jets we have.
My main issue is warning newbies out there of the dangers that exist with this company. Your case is different. You are going in with all eyes open.
Cheers buddy,
Andy
04-08-2014, 07:32 PM
#173
When we were flying Luke's big FB twin F-15 I had so many engine failures in flight I lost count. Must have been in the neighborhood of 15 and it was never a big deal (twin Rhino powered).
I had a couple of engine out with the 1/6 F-18 and it's been no big deal either.
last month at Fl Jets, on my first flight with Luke's Tomahawk F-5 (and the 2nd for the new plane overall) I had an engine quit at rotation, PLUS the gear would not come up. I flew the entire flight on one single Kingtech 140...full fuel, gear down...and a 90 degree cross wind. The result? No big deal. Was it a ball of fire? Nope. Was it a handful? Yep. I just flew it within its current envelope for that flight and landed when the timer ran out.
Any twin fighter type will/ should fly fine with one shutdown, as long as you keep your wits about you and operate it within its engine out envelope. What is it's envelope? It's pretty easy to figure out...if the feedback the stick is giving you says "I don't like what you are doing" stop doing it and back off.
Beave
I had a couple of engine out with the 1/6 F-18 and it's been no big deal either.
last month at Fl Jets, on my first flight with Luke's Tomahawk F-5 (and the 2nd for the new plane overall) I had an engine quit at rotation, PLUS the gear would not come up. I flew the entire flight on one single Kingtech 140...full fuel, gear down...and a 90 degree cross wind. The result? No big deal. Was it a ball of fire? Nope. Was it a handful? Yep. I just flew it within its current envelope for that flight and landed when the timer ran out.
Any twin fighter type will/ should fly fine with one shutdown, as long as you keep your wits about you and operate it within its engine out envelope. What is it's envelope? It's pretty easy to figure out...if the feedback the stick is giving you says "I don't like what you are doing" stop doing it and back off.
Beave
04-08-2014, 07:51 PM
#174
When we were flying Luke's big FB twin F-15 I had so many engine failures in flight I lost count. Must have been in the neighborhood of 15 and it was never a big deal (twin Rhino powered).
I had a couple of engine out with the 1/6 F-18 and it's been no big deal either.
last month at Fl Jets, on my first flight with Luke's Tomahawk F-5 (and the 2nd for the new plane overall) I had an engine quit at rotation, PLUS the gear would not come up. I flew the entire flight on one single Kingtech 140...full fuel, gear down...and a 90 degree cross wind. The result? No big deal. Was it a ball of fire? Nope. Was it a handful? Yep. I just flew it within its current envelope for that flight and landed when the timer ran out.
Any twin fighter type will/ should fly fine with one shutdown, as long as you keep your wits about you and operate it within its engine out envelope. What is it's envelope? It's pretty easy to figure out...if the feedback the stick is giving you says "I don't like what you are doing" stop doing it and back off.
Beave
I had a couple of engine out with the 1/6 F-18 and it's been no big deal either.
last month at Fl Jets, on my first flight with Luke's Tomahawk F-5 (and the 2nd for the new plane overall) I had an engine quit at rotation, PLUS the gear would not come up. I flew the entire flight on one single Kingtech 140...full fuel, gear down...and a 90 degree cross wind. The result? No big deal. Was it a ball of fire? Nope. Was it a handful? Yep. I just flew it within its current envelope for that flight and landed when the timer ran out.
Any twin fighter type will/ should fly fine with one shutdown, as long as you keep your wits about you and operate it within its engine out envelope. What is it's envelope? It's pretty easy to figure out...if the feedback the stick is giving you says "I don't like what you are doing" stop doing it and back off.
Beave
04-08-2014, 08:06 PM
#175
Dantley,
Sorry about the -10...but that is a different animal. Pod mounted engines...lots of drag...it gets ugly early with the -10. Sorry again.
As a humorous side...my statement about fighters still stands...because the only people who call the A-10 a fighter are other A-10 pilots...lol. It's a long story and funny too...
Cheers,
Boli
Sorry about the -10...but that is a different animal. Pod mounted engines...lots of drag...it gets ugly early with the -10. Sorry again.
As a humorous side...my statement about fighters still stands...because the only people who call the A-10 a fighter are other A-10 pilots...lol. It's a long story and funny too...
Cheers,
Boli