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Poor Transmitter Antenna Positioning may Cause Lockouts

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Old 04-20-2014, 06:20 AM
  #26
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For the thousands of units out there and hundreds of thousands of flights, very impressive that these things are as reliable as they are. What puzzles me, is why does jr need satellites and all that confusion when futaba can accomplish it with two little wires? Unless we see a recall, I chalk this stuff up to install differences and unfortunate luck.

whats funny, is that each discipline in the hobby gravitates to a specific brand of radio. when I was flying helis, futaba dominated. Even the jr sponsored pilots used futaba gyros. Sailplanes used airtronics...... It seems like jr had a stranglehold on jets, but it seems to be balancing out. Interesting to see if jr's sbus system will be a big pull for them.
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Old 04-20-2014, 06:50 AM
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Old 04-20-2014, 06:51 AM
  #28
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Troll
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Old 04-20-2014, 07:02 AM
  #29
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Old 04-20-2014, 07:05 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirrom View Post
Andy,
All due respect, but it sounds as a transmitter war is what you are trying to start. If you are going to make the allegation about 8 specific lockouts you should be prepared to give up your so-called secret sources. Unfortunately it makes you look as if you are just trying to start a rumor. What would be the difference if I started a thread on another site that went, "Hey I heard Andy Andrews was arrested for 8 different charges!" and when asked who said it, all I could say was "Oh I can't divulge my source." It makes me look like an ass for even saying one word without being willing to provide some kind of proof. This is the kind of post that reminds me of the national enquirer when they have grainy/fuzzy pictures of bigfoot.
Oh and been flying FASST since it came out without one lockup and I fly nitro, gas, helis, electric, and jets.

Patrick
Great answer!
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Old 04-20-2014, 07:11 AM
  #31
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Were they using hobby king receivers?
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Old 04-20-2014, 07:12 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyAndrews View Post
Ok, I'll say this.. one was Tony Quist's at Tucson. His new and professionally built Ultra Flash went in after a lock out right after takeoff on the 4th or 5th flight. Next, this weekend, I hear about the same thing happening near Phoenix with Brian O'Meara's Top Gun award winning P-47. Both lockouts. Both of these guys are sticklers for proper installations. The fella who told me about Brian's said there have been about 6 more in his club alone.
I believe both of these guys are Futaba Reps too btw.

I really didn't want to mention names, but since I was being called a troll I felt it necessary to mention. I by no means am trying to start anything. I would use Futaba any day of the week just like I use JR. Both systems are rock solid in this hobby. It's just very unusual to see so many lock outs so close together. I don't know the specific setups on either. Ask them. If they want they can discuss it. As it stands they will probably be hacked off for me bringing attention here.

Flame away, call me a troll or what ever. Sometimes it's good to share knowledge if it can benefit others.

Trying to create panic is not good to anyone, no matter the intentions, and probably saying you fly JR is not a good idea either, I went to read read because I am one of the happy guys who changed to Futaba from a JR12 X.

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Old 04-20-2014, 07:21 AM
  #33
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Although I don,t do jets I have done just about everything else with all of the major brands. When I started out 36 years ago getting a glitch or two during a lying session was pretty common. These days we don't get glitches, we get locked out and crash. I will agree with Andy as I had flown IMAC with Tony Quist for a few years and his installs were always top notch. It just may be a trend, not due to manufacturers but to how a region can develop a trend in installs and preferred equipment. Throwing a second party power box in there may add an unknown. I can say that after I started working in the RF field back in 1997 I have changed some things in my installs that I would have previously never thought an issue. I have seen antennas less then an inch away from a digital servo, receivers mounted on top of batteries, etc. I do all I can to eliminate any internal noise being generated from the airplane. Some things like running metal pushrods or pull pull cables next to long servo leads could cause an issue, not by it's self but add a few small things together and it can become a bigger issue. Jets are obviously complicated and carry the most electronics of any R/C aircraft and in some cases there aren't many options to how it's going to be laid out. In the end all you can probably do is the best you can and run very thorough range checks both with engine running and engine off and with the TX at all angles from the airplane. That type of range check has served me well with the big gassers. I have had situations where the engine off will get double what the manufacturer states as safe yet the engine running only gets half. One of those was fixed by simply changing the rudder pull pull from steel cable to Kevlar.
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Old 04-20-2014, 07:22 AM
  #34
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ALL RADIO EQUIPEMENT HAVE SOMETHING WRONG AT TIMES WHY KNOCK THEMi got 10 futaba radios and i dont knock any radio to each his own
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Old 04-20-2014, 07:27 AM
  #35
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Old 04-20-2014, 07:28 AM
  #36
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I think the moderator needs to stop this before it gets vicious.
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Old 04-20-2014, 07:29 AM
  #37
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Old 04-20-2014, 07:44 AM
  #38
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It is almost impossible for this thread to bring something good, as there is no way to establish a "trend" as all he parameters are not the same and the equipment used is not always installed with one brand and/or in compliance with Futaba instructions, for this o consider this thread to be irresponsible.

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Old 04-20-2014, 07:47 AM
  #39
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It is almost impossible for this thread to bring something good, as there is no way to establish a "trend" as all the parameters are not the same and the equipment used is not always installed with one brand and/or in compliance with Futaba instructions, for this o consider this thread to be irresponsible.

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Old 04-20-2014, 08:03 AM
  #40
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I fly with a Futaba 18mz and welcome Andy's inquiry. If there are crashes from lock-out then we should talk about it and try to understand if it's a real problem or localized. That is what forums are for! The guys who are claiming this is a brand war are going to turn it into that.
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:21 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubd View Post
I fly with a Futaba 18mz and welcome Andy's inquiry. If there are crashes from lock-out then we should talk about it and try to understand if it's a real problem or localized. That is what forums are for! The guys who are claiming this is a brand war are going to turn it into that.
+1
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:28 AM
  #42
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I to fly Futaba and jets and watch these trends. I just filter out the useless responses, put "maybes" by iffy comments and listen closely to the respected ones in this hobby. These trends start this way and may or may not play out. As one schooled in applied statistics, I tend to pay attention to reports of clusters. May very well be nothing wrong with the system, may be installation or whatever.

Reporting on lockouts and known parameters around each is best for us all. It'll take a while to ferret this out, but please don't automatically dismiss this as capricious.

staying tuned- probably will need another thread :"Futaba lock out Investigative reporting; parameters around installation and environmental conditions wanted" or something like that. It helps us and the manufacturer get better, absent the negative comments.
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:28 AM
  #43
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OK. This happened to at least one jet and one WWII P-47. Both were airplanes built by quality builders. The other airplanes remain unknown as to what type. So far, so good. Hopefully, those that it happened to will join this discussion to provide details.

The word, "troll" is used too freely around here. Just because someone starts a discussion or has an opposing viewpoint, does not make them a "troll." Yet people continue to throw that word around.
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:35 AM
  #44
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I think pointing the finger at a specific manufacturer is pointless. For the most part all the major players use pretty much the same technology. They are all putting out the same power levels and are competing at the same price point. The only real difference would be operating system. Does that have any effect on signal reliability? I couldn't say. Now did all the airplanes went down have the same model RX then there may be something there. It's not unheard of for a manufacturer to bet a bad run of parts from a supplier however in most cases this would show up in testing. Although I would imagine that testing on even a 200.00 RX is going to be done by lot sampling. For the most part I have seen guys blame brand F and switch to brand J only to have the same issue.
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:47 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I think pointing the finger at a specific manufacturer is pointless. For the most part all the major players use pretty much the same technology. They are all putting out the same power levels and are competing at the same price point. The only real difference would be operating system. Does that have any effect on signal reliability? I couldn't say. Now did all the airplanes went down have the same model RX then there may be something there. It's not unheard of for a manufacturer to bet a bad run of parts from a supplier however in most cases this would show up in testing. Although I would imagine that testing on even a 200.00 RX is going to be done by lot sampling. For the most part I have seen guys blame brand F and switch to brand J only to have the same issue.
I don't see finger pointing here, but a question raised. There needs to be more information brought forward before a conclusion can be made.
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:58 AM
  #46
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:03 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyAndrews View Post
Ok, I'll say this.. one was Tony Quist's at Tucson. His new and professionally built Ultra Flash went in after a lock out right after takeoff on the 4th or 5th flight. Next, this weekend, I hear about the same thing happening near Phoenix with Brian O'Meara's Top Gun award winning P-47. Both lockouts. Both of these guys are sticklers for proper installations. The fella who told me about Brian's said there have been about 6 more in his club alone.
I believe both of these guys are Futaba Reps too btw.

I really didn't want to mention names, but since I was being called a troll I felt it necessary to mention. I by no means am trying to start anything. I would use Futaba any day of the week just like I use JR. Both systems are rock solid in this hobby. It's just very unusual to see so many lock outs so close together. I don't know the specific setups on either. Ask them. If they want they can discuss it. As it stands they will probably be hacked off for me bringing attention here.

Flame away, call me a troll or what ever. Sometimes it's good to share knowledge if it can benefit others.
Interesting. Tony frequents RCU, so hopefully he'll post some details about his installation so we'll have more to go on.

As I said though, I have hundreds (thousands?) of flights on various Futaba FASST TXs (9C, 10C, 12FG, 14MZ) and RXs (6, 7, 8, and 14-channel) without any problems at all. At the same time, one of the guys we fly with has 100% success with Spektrum - which we know many guys have had problems with.

Experiences with equipment vary, and its not enough of a trend to be worried about IMHO - although looking into it in more detail can't hurt. Hopefully those who've experienced it will give us the benefit of their investigations...

Bob
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:30 AM
  #48
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Thanks Andy!

If we ever get any expounding information, I'd like to know the software versions being used.

I believe I'm still using an "older" version as I haven't updated it. I'm always weary of "updates" and don't like to be the first to do them.
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:35 AM
  #49
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Sorry Andy but it's the JRs and Spectrums that are going in at the field that I fly at and it's many more than 8. Dan.
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:37 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All Day Dan View Post
Sorry Andy but it's the JRs and Spectrums that are going in at the field that I fly at and it's many more than 8. Dan.
This isn't a thread about Futaba vs Spektrum so stop trying to make it into one.
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