Poor Transmitter Antenna Positioning may Cause Lockouts
#127
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Lets see... Its April...
For many/most of us March/April is likely the beginning of the flying season...
People pull their planes out of the basement... garages... Arizona is drier than where I fly, but one thing I have to pay attention to is corrosion that may have occurred over the months where my planes may have had to be stored in less than ideal conditions.
My thought is in the north-east its not necessarily uncommon for a perfectly fine setup that was put away in november to need some new switches, or a new battery or wires in march when its pulled out to fly it again... so we tend to automatically check that sort of thing.... I'm wondering if in Arizona that is less common due to the different climate... but you may still run into those issues, although less frequently....to the point where it doesn't get checked regularly.
just a thought...
For many/most of us March/April is likely the beginning of the flying season...
People pull their planes out of the basement... garages... Arizona is drier than where I fly, but one thing I have to pay attention to is corrosion that may have occurred over the months where my planes may have had to be stored in less than ideal conditions.
My thought is in the north-east its not necessarily uncommon for a perfectly fine setup that was put away in november to need some new switches, or a new battery or wires in march when its pulled out to fly it again... so we tend to automatically check that sort of thing.... I'm wondering if in Arizona that is less common due to the different climate... but you may still run into those issues, although less frequently....to the point where it doesn't get checked regularly.
just a thought...
#128
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So, how many have had the rare occasion of "RC-off" read on the ECU after a flameout(and you did not command shutdown) on an otherwise very reliable aircraft and engine? Let's define rare in this case to be about 1 in 100 flights.
Presumably you've done the proper rx antenna install. Could this be due to tx orientation goof up or something else?
Presumably you've done the proper rx antenna install. Could this be due to tx orientation goof up or something else?
#129
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Andy, you should know by now that without supported facts your going to get beat up....heck, with supported facts the sheeple will continue to beat on you, and the world is lousy with them. I can see where some of these lockouts might have been sponsored pilots but not all, right? It would be beneficial to hear what "exactly" happened there.
#130
Thread Starter
Andy, you should know by now that without supported facts your going to get beat up....heck, with supported facts the sheeple will continue to beat on you, and the world is lousy with them. I can see where some of these lockouts might have been sponsored pilots but not all, right? It would be beneficial to hear what "exactly" happened there.
Regards,
Andy
Last edited by AndyAndrews; 04-21-2014 at 08:47 PM.
#131
The Problem: If you get a quick failsafe glitch set up to failsafe at -100 that the turbine will shut down instantly. What it's designed to do is shutdown after 2 seconds of Failsafe (below -100). A quick glitch would hardly be noticed but a turbine out trying to glide back to the runway causes a whole new set of problems.
#133
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So Steve, if I read you correctly, by using the radio systems failsafe to command a shutdown, it is much more harsh than using the ECU based failsafe which allows for a bit of margin in terms of time. Point well taken. I've tested it and the shutdown is immediate in my case.
But, unfortunately it still means the rf link was compromised in my case unless something else can create an "Rc-off" condition( assuming I didn't accidentally with my hand, and I verified the trim in this case to still be full up)
But, unfortunately it still means the rf link was compromised in my case unless something else can create an "Rc-off" condition( assuming I didn't accidentally with my hand, and I verified the trim in this case to still be full up)
#134
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I've asked the moderators to delete this entire thread. I was wrong to post it like I did. There are just too many variations that could cause these things it is shouldn't have been my place to assume or even call out others. I apologize to the ones I named. I shouldn't have put them in this situation and I feel bad about it. For those who said from the beginning that this thread would serve no good, I agree with you. It hasn't.
Moderators, please delete.
Regards,
Andy
Moderators, please delete.
Regards,
Andy
Unfortunately we are in a bit of a sticky situation here where we can't simply delete a thread because it didn't go the direction it was intended. Believe me I understand and feel your pain here, but myself and my moderators have to moderate RCU by our Community Rule and we can't take actions unless there is a rule being broken here. If there some rule being broken that I've missed please point it out to me. But even if there is a broken rule it's unlikely that we would delete the thread, but rather we would simply lock the thread and let is slide down the forum listing, unless once again there is something here that I am missing.
Ken
#135
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I gather that all these 'glitches' happened in southern AZ.You have Fort Huacuca that,the last that I knew,does a lot of radio work and various testing of new commo systems etc.They don't have to cause interference directly on the 2.4 ghz band,but it could be caused by harmonics off of another band in use.Also maybe some ducting was happening to,that may have been the cause of this.As far as antenna orientation goes,keep it as vertical as possible,at all times.The circuitry inside the radio is designed for a vertical antenna.The more 'off vertical' the antenna is,the transmitter might be folding back the power output due to a much higher swr.This protects the power amp in the transmitter,or should.To really get an idea of this,you would need a field strength meter that is capable of going up to 2.4 ghz.band.That will show you any lobes and give you a better understanding of how an antenna works for our rc stuff.
#136
So Steve, if I read you correctly, by using the radio systems failsafe to command a shutdown, it is much more harsh than using the ECU based failsafe which allows for a bit of margin in terms of time. Point well taken. I've tested it and the shutdown is immediate in my case.
But, unfortunately it still means the rf link was compromised in my case unless something else can create an "Rc-off" condition( assuming I didn't accidentally with my hand, and I verified the trim in this case to still be full up)
But, unfortunately it still means the rf link was compromised in my case unless something else can create an "Rc-off" condition( assuming I didn't accidentally with my hand, and I verified the trim in this case to still be full up)
I'm keen to this as a few months ago I was spotting for a good friend with a beautiful F-4 twin. He got pretty far out Tx antenna was horizontal had a split second glitch, barely noticeable except ... both turbines shut down. Our field is on a hilltop, not very forgiving and he sadly lost the whole thing as he couldn't make the runway with no power. Had he had that two seconds of wait time prior to shutdown he would have continued the flight without incident. ECU's recorded "RC-Off". Also his Rx antennas were low in the air frame just in front of the turbine, batteries and ball of wires. Plane flying away to the left, antenna pointed to the right (bottom of antenna pointed at plane) Perfect storm of bad orientation.
I went home, checked my planes and found two of them had the Tx Failsafe set up the same way.
I just had to temporarily change the servo endpoint from -100 to -120, reset the new Failsafe point on the TX and then set the servo endpoint back to -100.
You can test it using the HDU (engine off) and turn off the Tx. The HDU gets a little F/S on the screen once the Tx goes off and it goes away after the Tx is turned back on.
Last edited by stevekott; 04-21-2014 at 11:02 AM.
#137
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Jeez - if someone posts a question about a radio manufacturer it's like some people think it's an attack on them. Then people try to make it out to be a Jr vs Futaba thread. IMO Andy is asking an honest question and for that he gets called a troll.
#138
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I've asked the moderators to delete this entire thread. I was wrong to post it like I did. There are just too many variations that could cause these things it is shouldn't have been my place to assume or even call out others. I apologize to the ones I named. I shouldn't have put them in this situation and I feel bad about it. For those who said from the beginning that this thread would serve no good, I agree with you. It hasn't.
Moderators, please delete.
Regards,
Andy
Moderators, please delete.
Regards,
Andy
Last edited by F-16 viperman; 04-21-2014 at 12:18 PM.
#140
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Jim Branaum - Pointing one end of the antenna toward the ground not any different than pointing it towards the sky. The power radiated off of each end of the antenna is essentially the same (the far end, or the end fastened at your transmitter). The real radiated power is perpendicular to the antenna axis, not the end of the antenna.
However, the real 'trick' is to get the real power radiated to the area the aircraft is flying in and I don't think that is always true when your antenna is pointed at the ground but I am also not sure it is true if the antenna is pointed up at any angle other than 90 degrees.
Andy, regardless of the naysayers there are some things that folks should look at in their radio systems and IMNSHO this thread is bringing some of those to light.
YMMV
#143
I use a 18mz and there have only been one occasion that I've experienced this issue. I'm thinking it could have been rx related or factors outside of the system such as interference from something else or, related to the environment (terrain). The plane that I was flying at the time this happened, has the simple and basic 6 channel rx in it. All my other planes have the R7008SB rx and thus far have all been completely flawless. So the only difference in system between all the planes I've flown with my 18mz and the one that did have this issue but only once so far, is the rx and the environment. I was also somewhat near the Stanford "dish" when the issue occurred, so this is also why I think there is a possibility the issue was caused by interference outside of my rc system. It's only occurred once and I've been using my 18mz for a little over a year now, and the one time it did happen, only did so for just a few seconds, which didn't result in crash or loss of ac since I had plenty of alt at the time.
Last edited by SushiHunter; 04-21-2014 at 01:25 PM.
#144
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I fly with a Futaba 18mz and welcome Andy's inquiry. If there are crashes from lock-out then we should talk about it and try to understand if it's a real problem or localized. That is what forums are for! The guys who are claiming this is a brand war are going to turn it into that.
Patrick
#145
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WAIT a minute....you DONT sleep with your futaba radio?!.... No one should rip Andy over this posting as it is a very useful info and pretty good topic,very informative.
Now... With that said..No, nothing is going on with futaba, keep calm and carry on.
#147
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
what is a power box?
#149
I completely agree with you but don't start the thread with, "I heard of this, but can't tell you who told me....". Come in and state the facts, state what happened, to who it happened, the circumstances, the setup, etc. He took the wrong route to start a legitimate conversation about a possible problem.
Patrick
Patrick
#150
Thread Starter