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  1. #1
    JimBrown's Avatar
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    Airbus engine explodes during takeoff roll...

    Fortunately, before V1.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS1YAX70edc

    ...jim

  2. #2
    sideshow's Avatar
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    See how fast the pilot fed in rudder? Awesome.....
    eeeexcelent...
    Bob Convery

  3. #3
    sysiek's Avatar
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    Cortex gyro

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by sysiek View Post
    Cortex gyro
    Close, ADIRU's air data inertial reference units. there are 3 of them onboard.

    It was the flight management computers that fed the rudder in that quick. It's designed so that if there is an engine out senario the pilots to not have to correct for the lost engine, but rather manage the situation.


    Thanks

    dave

  5. #5

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    Hi,
    Puhh, no rumors here, ticketec,
    It was the PILOT to react with the rudder here - NO automatic yaw compensation from ANY of the 3 IRS`s is available during T/O roll on the Airbuses !!!
    Engine failure in T/O is a scenario trained every 6 month in the SIM !
    So, in this case, the pilot exercised his skills and justified the money he earns to the managers !
    see you
    Hans
    Last edited by hofer; 04-27-2014 at 01:27 PM.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by ticketec View Post
    Close, ADIRU's air data inertial reference units. there are 3 of them onboard.

    It was the flight management computers that fed the rudder in that quick. It's designed so that if there is an engine out senario the pilots to not have to correct for the lost engine, but rather manage the situation.


    Thanks

    dave

    As Hofer says, there is no automatic rudder input for the A330.
    I think you might be thinking of the 777. The 777 is fitted with a TAC (Thrust Asymmetry Compensation).
    That applies rudder in the event of an engine failure. Watching that video, that pilot was extremely quick to get the rudder sorted. Great job.

  7. #7
    Moderator j.duncker's Avatar
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    The reverse thrust thingies seem to be deployed in about 1 second.

    If the pilot/copilot did this great reactions.
    The dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.

  8. #8

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    Sorry folks but that was a compressor stall, the engine did not "explode".
    John

  9. #9

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    Engine chucked a blade due to fatigue failure.. Happens all the time.

  10. #10
    Dreddi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2walla View Post
    Happens all the time.
    No it doesnt. A shed blade is a catastrophic failure and would constitute a design change to prevent future occurrences.
    Last edited by Dreddi; 04-27-2014 at 01:34 PM.

  11. #11
    JimBrown's Avatar
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    From the AAIB accident report:

    At approximately 105 kt on a takeoff roll on Runway 23R at Manchester, the right engine failed, emitting a flash and smoke from the exhaust. The crew quickly established that there was a loss of power and aborted the takeoff, brought the aircraft to an emergency stop on the runway and taxied clear using the unaffected left engine. Inspection of the right engine revealed there had been a failure of a single HP turbine blade which had detached, resulting in a high power engine surge and further secondary damage to the IP and LP turbines and nozzles. The blade failure was caused by high cycle fatigue (HCF) crack propagation with crack initiation resulting from ‘Type 2 sulphidation’ corrosion.

    ...jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Square Nozzle View Post
    Sorry folks but that was a compressor stall, the engine did not "explode".
    Compressor stall my *****!

  13. #13

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    I believe the correct term is a "contained failure" meaning that nothing was thrown out the side of the engine. The shed blade and any other parts either stayed inside or exited through the exhaust nozzle. The pilot(s) absolutely acted correctly and quickly as everyone points out. One nice thing in a full scale aircraft - you feel the yaw.

  14. #14

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    Compressor stall, compressor surge. It's the same thing. The blade failure resulted in reverse flow in the engine ---- Compressor stall.
    John

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    This really had nothing do with the compressor. Corrosion initiated a crack in a HP turbine blade, which propagated due to high cycle fatigue until the blade separated at the crack. The blade then damaged the only remaining downstream components - the IP and LP nozzles and IP and LP blading. The event caused the engine to surge, but that was a tertiary event caused by damage and disruption in the turbine section which disrupted airflow through the engine.

  16. #16
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    Allow me to simplify as they would say in NASCAR: It done blowd up!

    What they did was pretty much a non event. An engine shells at 105 knots and you abort. You chop the throttles, RTO kicks in automatically and then depending on the operator either go straight into reverse, which automatically deploys the ground spoilers for you...or bang the throttles closed, manually deploy the ground spoilers and then reverse the engines. Now keep in mind I'm speaking Boeing so the Bus might act a little different. Either way a 105 knot abort is no big deal...just another day at the funny farm.

    Beave

    Quote Originally Posted by JimBrown View Post
    From the AAIB accident report:

    At approximately 105 kt on a takeoff roll on Runway 23R at Manchester, the right engine failed, emitting a flash and smoke from the exhaust. The crew quickly established that there was a loss of power and aborted the takeoff, brought the aircraft to an emergency stop on the runway and taxied clear using the unaffected left engine. Inspection of the right engine revealed there had been a failure of a single HP turbine blade which had detached, resulting in a high power engine surge and further secondary damage to the IP and LP turbines and nozzles. The blade failure was caused by high cycle fatigue (HCF) crack propagation with crack initiation resulting from ‘Type 2 sulphidation’ corrosion.

    ...jim
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  17. #17
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    The flight crew did a great job on that abort! Looked like a textbook procedure.

    I fly fly a Hawker 800XP that has a rudder bias system that compensates for a failed engine. Bleed air from both engines are routed to the opposite end of a piston/actuator unit that's connected to the rudder. With both engines running, bleed air is equal and no rudder deflection. When an engine fails, bleed air is lost on one side of the actuator driving the rudder to compensate for the asymmetrical condition. Pretty simple system and makes V1 cuts much easier.
    No matter how many times I cut it, it's still too short!

    Ultrasport Brotherhood #45, P-51 Brotherhood #34, P-40 Brotherhood #35, Saito Club member #799, Spitfire Brotherhood #173, Glow head #18

  18. #18
    bevar's Avatar
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    Yep...I agree. It's a simple reflection of the training they went through...so when a rejected takeoff occurs...it's a non event.

    After a couple of hundred aborts in the sim...when it happens for real it you just react and get the job done.

    Nicely done boys...

    Beave
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by mort78 View Post
    As Hofer says, there is no automatic rudder input for the A330.
    I think you might be thinking of the 777. The 777 is fitted with a TAC (Thrust Asymmetry Compensation).
    That applies rudder in the event of an engine failure. Watching that video, that pilot was extremely quick to get the rudder sorted. Great job.
    There is thrust asymmetry compensation on the A330, but it may be gated to above 100kts, not sure, so hofer may be right. I'll pull out my course notes when i get a chance and see what they say. T/R deply, 100% from the front office, and nice job, but as hofer stated they train for RTO's all the time.

    Thanks

    dave

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    Hi ticketec,
    Well, in fact, Airbuses do NOT have automatic yaw compensation during ALL phases of flight if the Autopilot is not engaged - you have to step on that rudder firsthand in any case, then trim manually around 10 Units ( with TOGA thrust ) before you can engage the AP !
    I have to know - just passed my latest A330 SIM-check 3 days ago !
    see you
    Hans

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    Quote Originally Posted by ticketec View Post
    There is thrust asymmetry compensation on the A330, but it may be gated to above 100kts, not sure, so hofer may be right. I'll pull out my course notes when i get a chance and see what they say. T/R deply, 100% from the front office, and nice job, but as hofer stated they train for RTO's all the time.

    Thanks

    dave

    Dave,
    When you dig out your info, I think you'll find it DOES NOT have any compensation of any kind on the A330.
    I've been flying the A330 for the last 5 years, so if it does, it's news to me

    What it does do automatically is engage max braking (RTO) once the thrust levers are brought back to idle and provided the speed is greater than 72kts.
    The spoilers are also auto in this situation.
    Cheers and beers,
    Mort

  22. #22
    NickC5FE's Avatar
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    Square Nozzle, "The blade failure resulted in a reverse flow through the engine"........No...

    Compressor stall occurs due to compressor discharge pressure exceeding compressor inlet pressure, usually because the first stages of compression cant handle the amount of air coming through the inlet, thus pressure drops in front and the built up pressure in the rear stages of compression flow forward. Most modern day (and even our old TF-39's on the C-5) have variable stator vanes on the first few stages of compression that adjust blade angle for the amount of air being brought in and throttle lever position to help squash stalls. Many times, in older low bypass turbo fans, the compressor stall would CAUSE blade failure.
    Last edited by NickC5FE; 04-28-2014 at 12:28 PM.
    I Fly FREDex
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysiek View Post
    Cortex gyro

    No....it was the CEREBRAL cortex!! Basically, when the windshield trends from all pavement in view to pavement/grass, you push on the pedal that makes for more pavement! The auto brakes went to RTO mode....rejected takeoff....the brakes were activated and the Bus started decelerating on a deceleration schedule. The reversers were applied by the pilot which allowed for less braking. At 80 kts, reverse thrust was reduced to idle and then stowed by the pilot. 105kts. to 80kts. doesn't take long. Hence, the quick deployment and stowage.

    Tailwinds,


    John
    Proud to be a rookie!

  24. #24
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    i want to emphasize that yes it happened before V1, but had it been after Vr you just get airborne. There's no decision.......just hope your Fuel, Payload and CG calculations were correct so the V's are accurate.
    "Folks use complex systems in their models and still lose them to stupid mistakes. I try to keep things simple and minimize stupidity" - The Falcon

  25. #25
    FalconWings's Avatar
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    Hey Airbus guys, is the T/R actuation hooked up to the primary hydraulic system or is it self contained to the engine?
    "Folks use complex systems in their models and still lose them to stupid mistakes. I try to keep things simple and minimize stupidity" - The Falcon


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