Craig B.

Which of you guys are using the TAM pipe in your F4? Could you please post a pic of your install at the front end? Just curious to see what everyone did with that.

Thanks in advance.

luv2flyrc

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Craig,

Here's a couple of pics of Tam's pipe in my F4

Mike

ww2birds

My Feedback: (14)

Nice install Mike, very "sanitary"!

Here is my install. Wren 180 powered. On Steve Stricker's advice, I got all the downthrust I could with a pair of maple ramps sitting on the rails. Tamjets pipe. BTW, I have a spare Tam pipe since I had to get one that was a few inches longer when I changed motors... it's 17 1/2" overall. Let me know if anyone needs it..

I pushed the motor as far forward as I could for CG purposes .. I have two 2S2300 A123s and about a pound of lead in the nose, with CG at 305mm.

Dave McQ

SStricker

Ignoreing the shrapnel scars, this is a TAM pipe mounted to the aft rails.

Mi-25

Hi Dave, I'm using the original SM pipe with a Rhino. What - apart from the rear down-angle is the advantage of the Tam pipe? How much do you want for your spare pipe and is it the one that's 17.5 "overall?
thanks,
Leon

ww2birds

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Hi Leon,

I prefer to use Tam's pipes since I know they are built properly, with very high quality materials .. perhaps the original pipes are ok but I generally don't trust them, and order kits without pipes when I can. And I love supporting Tam who is a really dedicated craftsman (maybe even artisan!) who server the jet community so well.

As I see it, the downangle has nothing to do with the pipe .. the pipe inlet and outlet nozzles are straight (90 degrees to the pipe flow) .. and the motor and pipe are mounted inline and parallel but at the same downangle. I am told by others that if you do less than max downangle you get a lot of throttle to elevator interaction and the stab buffets a lot or may even get cooked. Since I have only flown the plane the way it is in the pic, I can't say personally.

Yes, it's a little over 17". If you'd like it, it's yours for the cost of shipping. I'd rather see it doing some good for someone than sitting in my shop collecting dust. But if your SM pipe is working, perhaps no real point in changing...

Dave

Mi-25

Tks for the detailed info Dave - please let me know how much the shipping is to Hong Kong - if it's pricey surface mail will do as I'm not in any hurry.

cheers,

Craig B.

Hi Steve,

Did you you sleeve the sky master aluminium bell mouth into the aluminium lip on the tam pipe? It looks like you have in the photo. Are you running a jetcat 180rx? I gyro? You certainly have yours well dialled in judging by the vid on YouTube of it flying at Florida jets....nice flying. She seems to have a good turn of speed too.

Thanks for posting the pics guys. Nice to see everyone's ideas.

Craig B.

Hi Leon,

I just oust spoke with Jason. Bring your phantom down here to fly it!! FYI, the tam pipe that I have is 10mm bigger in diameter at each outlet than the SKYMASTER one.....that is quite a difference. My bet is that it will perform better than the stock one I had that may have been designed for a 160.

Mi-25

Hi Craig,
yes - Jason and I are planning to do just that and we're planning the process now. Didn't know that dimension difference between the two. Makes sense that the performance would increase.
cheers...

SStricker

Crag B.
I just used the TAM stuff that came with the pipe. I probably should not have the bell mouth mounted on the pipe but between that and the (TAM recommended) quarter size holes in the rear aluminum convergence piece, it makes a unique sound that I am reluctant to change.

Thanks for the kind words regarding the video. I do not use the igyro so I can not comment on it, I am using JR 370A gyros on all surfaces plus a separate one on nose gear (Nose gear gain is high ~75%). I have been very happy with the performance of these so far. Between having fast servos, the correct CG and mixing and the general nature of the F-4, Helen Keller could fly this plane well. Take offs and landings are extremely easy and the slow rolls are effortless.

I feel bad for the guys that are flying this thing with a 300mm CG with the fuel tanks empty because the plane felt to me like junk at that setting. However, I'm reluctant to encourage others on this forum to start with the CG where mine is (300 mm front tank full) for fear of someone accidentally getting it too far aft. 300 mm with the front tank 1/2 full should be plenty safe based on my experience.

I guess I should say if you started with the CG at 300 mm dry, don't be satisfied or afraid to change it, keep moving it back as you fly it, you will love the way it feels.

Craig B.

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the info. Mine was balanced at 300 with tanks empty and obviously not enough down thrust with the stock pipe and it felt like a dog so I know what you mean.....it was as if I was towing a bucket around the sky and the pitch trim was so throttle dependent I could not get it trimmed neutrally without putting in a mix. I am really looking forward to getting it dialled in. I hate nose heavy aircraft so will follow your recommendations on the c of g and report back with the equivalent tank empty measurement.

Did you put aluminium tape under your stabs?

Did you measure your c of g with gear down?

SStricker

Craig B.,
Unfortunately I initially did not have aluminum tape on the bottom of the stab until after the first hot start. After that I put aluminum tape under the stab and flite metal on the back of the plane which in fact was more true to scale. I got no more fiberglass or paint bubbling after that with subsequent hot starts.

My CG measurements were made with the gear up.

Hang in there with the plane, it's a pig nose heavy but will come alive when you get it dialed in. It also likes speed.

luv2flyrc

My Feedback: (6)

I got my maiden and flight # 2 in today on the F4. I went with Steve's recommendation on the CG and it worked out perfect. Thanks for the advice on here guys, the CG info and the neutral stab info was invaluable! One of my flying buddies put together a short video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjYVSG4U7DM#t=11

Mike

ravill

My Feedback: (11)

Congrats!

SM really did a great job on this F-4.

dubd

Congrats! I'm glad the maiden went well!

SStricker

Love the paint scheme!!!!

Mi-25

Hi Dave,
either I missed your reply to me or you may have forgotten to get back to me on the shipping costs? Please let me know how much to ship to me in Hong Kong and I'll transfer the cash.
cheers,
Leon

yeahbaby

My Feedback: (21)

Awesome congrats amigo!

flymanjg

My Feedback: (18)

Here's a video of my flight and landing. C.o.g is at 320 mm behind LE, with front tank 1/2 full.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xITw3Vrc5eg

yeahbaby

My Feedback: (21)

One of the best F4 schemes ever painted!! Nice flying

Mi-25

V. good flight and landing - looks nice and stable at low and high speeds - excellent!

ww2birds

My Feedback: (14)

See my PM .. we are still good on this.

Dave

Mi-25

I replied to your PM - dunno if it went through...

luv2flyrc

My Feedback: (6)

Update: I had the good fortune to have Ali dial in my F4 for me at Wingham Jets this past weekend ( about 2,5hrs outside of Toronto). I originally had the CG where Steve's is but, Ali had me pull even more weight out of the nose. Another 1.5lbs eventually came out!

I'll have to remeasure to see where the CG is now.

I've attached a couple of flight shots with Ali on the sticks. I can't thank him enough for putting half a dozen flights on it and totally transforming the ship. It was an invaluable experience for me.

Looks like I need stronger springs on the outer doors too!

Mike