JetCat USA - thru SUPPORT w/ DEDICATION the Power & Reliability returns
07-20-2014, 04:43 PM
#1
JetCat USA - thru SUPPORT w/ DEDICATION the Power & Reliability returns
Where should I start....well, many of us know of or at least heard of the storm JetCat USA has been dealing with lately. We have enjoyed the reliability and power these engines provided through the years supplied by Bob Wilcox and no doubt there are those out there that have lost confidence in the product. BTW...Thanx again Bob for your contribution to this end of the hobby!
John Redman has had his hands full with extremely turbulent times where most probably would have thrown in the towel. He moved into the Left Seat at JetCat USA during very tough times. It has been one thing after another; supplier & inventory issues, employee changes, moving to another location, and oh yeah....competition.
The ROAD SHOW!!
Houston was the 3rd stop of the tour. John called asking for a KingCat and a relatiely dedicated flying site for testing wilth little to no distractions while he performed the acid test. Bob Brubaker, Pres. of Bomber Field RC Club agreed to allowing us to use the site. MUCHO THANKS BOB!! Ray Blair supplied the test aircraft, KingCat #1 and Kirk Jenson was on hand with the backup test bed KingCat #2...just in case. We had all bases covered.
We were worried about the weather as the forecast was looking very bleek. Thursday evening we gave John the discouraging forecast of Texas T-Storms to which John replied "PERFECT !" OOHHH KKKAAYYY
John arrived late Friday night and was on the road 10am - destination Bomber Field! About 11:30 there was a very brief meet & greet of ole friends and John went to work.
KC#1 went through an engine swap in less than a half hour. This involved tubing changes, engine replacement, and minor wiring changes. All the while John explained to us he plans to put these 3 engines thru the most rigorus test he can imagine hoping to expose any flaws. He wanted to simulate anything he can imagine that takes place in the hands of his customers.
ROCK STAR PERFORMANCE
Wait a minute!! For some reason I thought he would just feel out the plane for most if not the whole first flight. NNOOOOOO !!!!! He put his ear buds form his cell phone in his ears, gave the start sequence, motioned to Ray to put the hat on (canopy) and no sooner than Ray stepped back from tightening the bolt, John was taxiing to the runway! No runup, no GSU checking, it was like a NASCAR pit stop!! It sounds like he is talking to somebody though!
Advanced power and KC#1 was airborne in +\- 30' !! I tried filming the flight but haven't viewed it yet. Still to come. Power changes, full power passes, slow flight, unlimited vertical - wait...limited at times due to cloud cover, radical maneuvering, talk about yankin & bankin, turnin' & burnin!! This was a demonstration of the power and reliability of the P180RX and the performance the KingCat can deliver. Did I mention feeling the plane out? Never happened.
Landed, taxiied back to the pits. Ray and I proceeded to put the plane back on the bench in the pits and John said "STOP! I want to make a change and put it back in the air. Top off the tanks and let's go"! So we did and stood back. There he goes again....straight for the runway. I asked Ray, who was spotting for him, is he talking to himself, as we can here him saying something while walking behind the plane to the flight station? Ray said he is singing some kinda strange lyrics I never heard before. HUH??
Full power and straight for the clouds!! Kirk and I said to each other as we watched "Man this guy is good!! " He put the plane through more Gs and unusual attitudes with aggressive power changes and the engine did not skip a beat. As for the weather?? It was looking very threatening but John was on a mission. Landed and taxiied back to the pits.
He explained the first flight was under normal ECU parameters / settings as the engine comes out of the box. The 2nd flight was with the ECU set to Auto Tune. No changes in flight performance. The engine did not hiccup at all. Back to the NASCAR pit stop-changed to engine #2-topped the tanks-put the hat on-back out to the runway. DItto on the flight performance!! Landed-topped the tanks-changed settings-back to runway and airborne. Yank-Bank-Turn-Burn-slow-fast etc.
In between engine changing, John called back to the shop with performance details. He is happy thus far. Instructed us to charge the plane while Kirk went to get us lunch. There was just enough time to eat, charge, John gave us an education on the update to the engines and also how things have FINALLY turned around behind the scenes at JetCat USA. Well!! Break time was over pretty quickly!
Engine #3 performed flawlessly also. Put through the same rigorious performance routine and didn't miss a beat. Pit Stop after 2nd flight-reinstalled the P160 on the plane-reconnected all original systems-topped the tanks and off he goes agian.
Everything is back to normal. John is satisfied and if I can speak for the three of us we were very impressed. John left for Florida this morning to fly Harley's KingCat tomorrow with the rest of the BVM crew. He said at this point he is expecting the same outstanding performance as he is prett\y much convinced they have the problem corrected.
We flew until about 6:30pm, 7+ galllons of fuel, John recorded notes and recorded weather conditions between flights as we prepared the plane for each sortie. He called back to the shop each time also. John Redman is giving us his ALL guys. He has been to Indiana, Kentucky, Houston and final stop is Florida. He expressed his appreciation about his customers' patience . He has built a strong staff including Bob Wilcox and support network of reps. like Ray Blair and Kirk Jenson who had a lot at stake lending their aircraft to this testing, which speaks volumes in their confidence in the engine and John Redman.
There is a very noticable performance difference between the P160 & the P180 just as Jetkopter said these P180RXs are a Ferrari! Oh BTW... talk about multi-tasking....the ear buds from his phone was music John flies to while singing the words to Dos Gringos' Jeremiah Weed, I'm a pilot, Dogs of War etc.
John Redman has had his hands full with extremely turbulent times where most probably would have thrown in the towel. He moved into the Left Seat at JetCat USA during very tough times. It has been one thing after another; supplier & inventory issues, employee changes, moving to another location, and oh yeah....competition.
The ROAD SHOW!!
Houston was the 3rd stop of the tour. John called asking for a KingCat and a relatiely dedicated flying site for testing wilth little to no distractions while he performed the acid test. Bob Brubaker, Pres. of Bomber Field RC Club agreed to allowing us to use the site. MUCHO THANKS BOB!! Ray Blair supplied the test aircraft, KingCat #1 and Kirk Jenson was on hand with the backup test bed KingCat #2...just in case. We had all bases covered.
We were worried about the weather as the forecast was looking very bleek. Thursday evening we gave John the discouraging forecast of Texas T-Storms to which John replied "PERFECT !" OOHHH KKKAAYYYJohn arrived late Friday night and was on the road 10am - destination Bomber Field! About 11:30 there was a very brief meet & greet of ole friends and John went to work.
KC#1 went through an engine swap in less than a half hour. This involved tubing changes, engine replacement, and minor wiring changes. All the while John explained to us he plans to put these 3 engines thru the most rigorus test he can imagine hoping to expose any flaws. He wanted to simulate anything he can imagine that takes place in the hands of his customers.
ROCK STAR PERFORMANCE
Wait a minute!! For some reason I thought he would just feel out the plane for most if not the whole first flight. NNOOOOOO !!!!! He put his ear buds form his cell phone in his ears, gave the start sequence, motioned to Ray to put the hat on (canopy) and no sooner than Ray stepped back from tightening the bolt, John was taxiing to the runway! No runup, no GSU checking, it was like a NASCAR pit stop!! It sounds like he is talking to somebody though!
Advanced power and KC#1 was airborne in +\- 30' !! I tried filming the flight but haven't viewed it yet. Still to come. Power changes, full power passes, slow flight, unlimited vertical - wait...limited at times due to cloud cover, radical maneuvering, talk about yankin & bankin, turnin' & burnin!! This was a demonstration of the power and reliability of the P180RX and the performance the KingCat can deliver. Did I mention feeling the plane out? Never happened.
Landed, taxiied back to the pits. Ray and I proceeded to put the plane back on the bench in the pits and John said "STOP! I want to make a change and put it back in the air. Top off the tanks and let's go"! So we did and stood back. There he goes again....straight for the runway. I asked Ray, who was spotting for him, is he talking to himself, as we can here him saying something while walking behind the plane to the flight station? Ray said he is singing some kinda strange lyrics I never heard before. HUH??
Full power and straight for the clouds!! Kirk and I said to each other as we watched "Man this guy is good!! " He put the plane through more Gs and unusual attitudes with aggressive power changes and the engine did not skip a beat. As for the weather?? It was looking very threatening but John was on a mission. Landed and taxiied back to the pits.
He explained the first flight was under normal ECU parameters / settings as the engine comes out of the box. The 2nd flight was with the ECU set to Auto Tune. No changes in flight performance. The engine did not hiccup at all. Back to the NASCAR pit stop-changed to engine #2-topped the tanks-put the hat on-back out to the runway. DItto on the flight performance!! Landed-topped the tanks-changed settings-back to runway and airborne. Yank-Bank-Turn-Burn-slow-fast etc.
In between engine changing, John called back to the shop with performance details. He is happy thus far. Instructed us to charge the plane while Kirk went to get us lunch. There was just enough time to eat, charge, John gave us an education on the update to the engines and also how things have FINALLY turned around behind the scenes at JetCat USA. Well!! Break time was over pretty quickly!
Engine #3 performed flawlessly also. Put through the same rigorious performance routine and didn't miss a beat. Pit Stop after 2nd flight-reinstalled the P160 on the plane-reconnected all original systems-topped the tanks and off he goes agian.
Everything is back to normal. John is satisfied and if I can speak for the three of us we were very impressed. John left for Florida this morning to fly Harley's KingCat tomorrow with the rest of the BVM crew. He said at this point he is expecting the same outstanding performance as he is prett\y much convinced they have the problem corrected.
We flew until about 6:30pm, 7+ galllons of fuel, John recorded notes and recorded weather conditions between flights as we prepared the plane for each sortie. He called back to the shop each time also. John Redman is giving us his ALL guys. He has been to Indiana, Kentucky, Houston and final stop is Florida. He expressed his appreciation about his customers' patience . He has built a strong staff including Bob Wilcox and support network of reps. like Ray Blair and Kirk Jenson who had a lot at stake lending their aircraft to this testing, which speaks volumes in their confidence in the engine and John Redman.
There is a very noticable performance difference between the P160 & the P180 just as Jetkopter said these P180RXs are a Ferrari! Oh BTW... talk about multi-tasking....the ear buds from his phone was music John flies to while singing the words to Dos Gringos' Jeremiah Weed, I'm a pilot, Dogs of War etc.
Last edited by SkyKnight; 07-20-2014 at 05:43 PM.
07-20-2014, 05:47 PM
#2
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Ditto to everything said above. It was a very fun day and wonderful to see a big smile on Johns face looks like the 180rx is now solid. He showed us the issue and the fix. Makes perfect sense. Now on to Florida to test in that environment. That is customer service and dedication.
looks like the 180rx is now solid. He showed us the issue and the fix. Makes perfect sense. Now on to Florida to test in that environment. That is customer service and dedication.
07-21-2014, 03:10 PM
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Well, guys, as Alan has already mentioned, the last stop on John Redman's tour was central Florida. When he arrived at BVM, my KC was waiting for him in the back shop.
With both of us working on it, the engine transplant was accomplished in record time. We then set out for field, which is close to 45 minutes drive from the shop.
We had almost perfect conditions, but very hot and muggy. When I say almost perfect, the windsock was hanging down like a well rope. Not a breath of breeze stirring. The temperature was in the low 90's with humidity in the high 80's. Very typical of central Florida summer days....my shirt was soaked within minutes, and the sun beat down relentlessly. Fortunately we have shade and cold water available.
Trying to describe what John put my new KC through would be difficult to do, as Alan did such a good job....his description is a tough act to follow. Todays flights must have been a repeat of the Bomber Field show.
From the start, John put two engines through some fairly serious aerobatics, including lots of negative "G" stuff, including inverted snaps and spins. Plenty of inverted horizontal 8's were performed, at various altitudes and throttle settings.
Loops, Cuban 8's, and many other aerobatic maneuvers were part of his routine. John stated that he really likes my new KC.
Not once did either of the engines cough,sputter or do anything that an engine should not do, and the P-180 moves the KC with real authority. There is also enough jet noise to satisfy anyone.
One of the many things that a KC is very good at, is slow flight. Down in the weeds, (actually at about 15 feet) flaps down, crow up and at a snails pace from the end of the runway to show center, then bang the throttle forward to full blow, pitch the nose to the vertical, and accelerate vertically until the KC was a speck. He did this with both engines to show the fast throttle response the P-180 is capable of.
Bob Violett asked John gain altitude, idle down, and slow fly for a period of about 15 seconds...John did exactly that, and when BV asked for high power, the engines accelerated without problem. Not a sputter, cough, hiss, fart or gurgle...just the sound of kerosene smoothly being converted to noise and speed. There was never a hint of a flameout. A low altitude go around wasn't a problem either. No reason to worry about the engine failing to provide thrust when needed the most....as in the case of an emergency go-around while low and slow.
One of the new things in the V10 ECU is the barometric sensor, which is a function that can be turned on or off at the flyers discretion The sensor uses the present barometric pressure, at all altitudes to determine the engines acceleration schedule. Hot, humid conditions and high pressure altitudes call for a slower fuel delivery schedule than on an Army Standard Day.
Each engine was flown a flight with, and without the barometric sensor operating, and both engines operated flawlessly, with and without.
After burning 5 gallons of kerosene, we were all suffering from the weather so we loaded up and bugged out for the shop. The AC sure felt good in the Escalade.
We took the P-180 out (John wouldn't leave it my care custody and control), and had to head out for the west coast, so we shook hands all around and went our separate ways. I was going to leap in my pool; for a well deserved cool down, but I was greeted by lightning and the accompanying thunder and thought better of it. No need to get lit up when I can sit around indoors in the AC. Rain is coming down by the bucket right now...
I am sure that John has the problem sorted out, and will correct any and all engines that he has available to him. The fix is simple, but somewhat time consuming. He has to get CAT DE tuned up regarding his findings so they can make sure all future engines coming down the pipeline are up to snuff. How do you say that in German?
With both of us working on it, the engine transplant was accomplished in record time. We then set out for field, which is close to 45 minutes drive from the shop.
We had almost perfect conditions, but very hot and muggy. When I say almost perfect, the windsock was hanging down like a well rope. Not a breath of breeze stirring. The temperature was in the low 90's with humidity in the high 80's. Very typical of central Florida summer days....my shirt was soaked within minutes, and the sun beat down relentlessly. Fortunately we have shade and cold water available.
Trying to describe what John put my new KC through would be difficult to do, as Alan did such a good job....his description is a tough act to follow. Todays flights must have been a repeat of the Bomber Field show.
From the start, John put two engines through some fairly serious aerobatics, including lots of negative "G" stuff, including inverted snaps and spins. Plenty of inverted horizontal 8's were performed, at various altitudes and throttle settings.
Loops, Cuban 8's, and many other aerobatic maneuvers were part of his routine. John stated that he really likes my new KC.
Not once did either of the engines cough,sputter or do anything that an engine should not do, and the P-180 moves the KC with real authority. There is also enough jet noise to satisfy anyone.
One of the many things that a KC is very good at, is slow flight. Down in the weeds, (actually at about 15 feet) flaps down, crow up and at a snails pace from the end of the runway to show center, then bang the throttle forward to full blow, pitch the nose to the vertical, and accelerate vertically until the KC was a speck. He did this with both engines to show the fast throttle response the P-180 is capable of.
Bob Violett asked John gain altitude, idle down, and slow fly for a period of about 15 seconds...John did exactly that, and when BV asked for high power, the engines accelerated without problem. Not a sputter, cough, hiss, fart or gurgle...just the sound of kerosene smoothly being converted to noise and speed. There was never a hint of a flameout. A low altitude go around wasn't a problem either. No reason to worry about the engine failing to provide thrust when needed the most....as in the case of an emergency go-around while low and slow.
One of the new things in the V10 ECU is the barometric sensor, which is a function that can be turned on or off at the flyers discretion The sensor uses the present barometric pressure, at all altitudes to determine the engines acceleration schedule. Hot, humid conditions and high pressure altitudes call for a slower fuel delivery schedule than on an Army Standard Day.
Each engine was flown a flight with, and without the barometric sensor operating, and both engines operated flawlessly, with and without.
After burning 5 gallons of kerosene, we were all suffering from the weather so we loaded up and bugged out for the shop. The AC sure felt good in the Escalade.
We took the P-180 out (John wouldn't leave it my care custody and control), and had to head out for the west coast, so we shook hands all around and went our separate ways. I was going to leap in my pool; for a well deserved cool down, but I was greeted by lightning and the accompanying thunder and thought better of it. No need to get lit up when I can sit around indoors in the AC. Rain is coming down by the bucket right now...
I am sure that John has the problem sorted out, and will correct any and all engines that he has available to him. The fix is simple, but somewhat time consuming. He has to get CAT DE tuned up regarding his findings so they can make sure all future engines coming down the pipeline are up to snuff. How do you say that in German?
07-21-2014, 03:39 PM
#4
I think what most of us would appreciate is our emails returned.
Kirk, you ended your post with "That is customer service and dedication." To what? Some turbines got tested? Shouldn't they have been thoroughly tested before being sold? I agree, it sounds like John got handed a poo sandwich, but to have you guys jump on a forum and heap praise on the situation and tout excellent customer service? It honestly makes you look foolish. The people on this forum aren't that naive.
Sorry, but you coming on here and blowing sunshine doesn't help the people who have made repeated attempts at corresponding with Jetcat to no avail. I think the customer base would be more understanding if they got phone calls returned or emails answered instead of pom pom waving about some successful testing.
Kirk, you ended your post with "That is customer service and dedication." To what? Some turbines got tested? Shouldn't they have been thoroughly tested before being sold? I agree, it sounds like John got handed a poo sandwich, but to have you guys jump on a forum and heap praise on the situation and tout excellent customer service? It honestly makes you look foolish. The people on this forum aren't that naive.
Sorry, but you coming on here and blowing sunshine doesn't help the people who have made repeated attempts at corresponding with Jetcat to no avail. I think the customer base would be more understanding if they got phone calls returned or emails answered instead of pom pom waving about some successful testing.
07-21-2014, 04:16 PM
#5
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Trust me , I voiced your concerns to John at Kentucky about lack of communication the and the honest answer is John is the only one who can answer your mail or tech questions and there is not enough of him to go around right now. The move and the shop time to fix the P-180 issue was the number one priority. Add to that the routine repairs of the 10,000 plus jetcat turbines that are in the field didn't leave much time for one on one customer service. Dennis is aware of this also as he got an earful from me in the beginning. There both working hard to make all JetCat USA owners happy customers. I would have to say that John landed in a hornets nest with the 180 and yes the where tested before they left Germany . The problem is that its not the same conditions as here and the passed the qc in Germany. The motors that failed where under hard acceleration on a hot humid day. That's the way mine and two others I sold let go. The fix or recall never identified the true cause of the rough running and the failures because the parts that where being changed where not the culprit. Its that simple. No one here is blowing smoke, and there is never excuse for poor customer service just honest answers as to what went wrong and why. Every manufacturer has problems and issues that need to be resolved and this was one of them. I have been with JetCat since from the first version P-80 and the turbine helicopter mechanics, the P-160 problems , the P200 shaft failures and several other less than perfect motors. They where all resolved, as this issue is soon to be put to rest as well. If for some reason you cant reach John and you have questions about the 180 or the auto tune software in the V10 ECU pm me and I will do my best to help you.
Regards,
Don DeSandre
Regards,
Don DeSandre
I think what most of us would appreciate is our emails returned.
Kirk, you ended your post with "That is customer service and dedication." To what? Some turbines got tested? Shouldn't they have been thoroughly tested before being sold? I agree, it sounds like John got handed a poo sandwich, but to have you guys jump on a forum and heap praise on the situation and tout excellent customer service? It honestly makes you look foolish. The people on this forum aren't that naive.
Sorry, but you coming on here and blowing sunshine doesn't help the people who have made repeated attempts at corresponding with Jetcat to no avail. I think the customer base would be more understanding if they got phone calls returned or emails answered instead of pom pom waving about some successful testing.
Kirk, you ended your post with "That is customer service and dedication." To what? Some turbines got tested? Shouldn't they have been thoroughly tested before being sold? I agree, it sounds like John got handed a poo sandwich, but to have you guys jump on a forum and heap praise on the situation and tout excellent customer service? It honestly makes you look foolish. The people on this forum aren't that naive.
Sorry, but you coming on here and blowing sunshine doesn't help the people who have made repeated attempts at corresponding with Jetcat to no avail. I think the customer base would be more understanding if they got phone calls returned or emails answered instead of pom pom waving about some successful testing.
Last edited by Jetkopter; 07-21-2014 at 04:22 PM.
07-21-2014, 04:23 PM
#6
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I think what most of us would appreciate is our emails returned.
Kirk, you ended your post with "That is customer service and dedication." To what? Some turbines got tested? Shouldn't they have been thoroughly tested before being sold? I agree, it sounds like John got handed a poo sandwich, but to have you guys jump on a forum and heap praise on the situation and tout excellent customer service? It honestly makes you look foolish. The people on this forum aren't that naive.
Sorry, but you coming on here and blowing sunshine doesn't help the people who have made repeated attempts at corresponding with Jetcat to no avail. I think the customer base would be more understanding if they got phone calls returned or emails answered instead of pom pom waving about some successful testing.
Kirk, you ended your post with "That is customer service and dedication." To what? Some turbines got tested? Shouldn't they have been thoroughly tested before being sold? I agree, it sounds like John got handed a poo sandwich, but to have you guys jump on a forum and heap praise on the situation and tout excellent customer service? It honestly makes you look foolish. The people on this forum aren't that naive.
Sorry, but you coming on here and blowing sunshine doesn't help the people who have made repeated attempts at corresponding with Jetcat to no avail. I think the customer base would be more understanding if they got phone calls returned or emails answered instead of pom pom waving about some successful testing.
i it's customer service and dedication to solving an engine problem that hit a bunch of customers. And the turbines got tested to prove out said change. I don't feel I'm blowing sunshine. Hopefully letting some folks know that their 180's will be good to go after a well tested change. I hope those waiting for a solution to the issue see light at the end of the tunnel by reading this thread.
take care.
07-21-2014, 07:03 PM
#7
It's interesting to read about the lack of phone customer service I acquired an older P120 back in April and have spoken to John on the phone a number of times getting the necessary setup info and have had zero issues getting ahold of him. I'm not a fan of sitting around waiting on an email and to many technical issues can prevent good email communication. I pick up the phone and call, if he is not there they tell me when he is I call back and problem solved.....
07-22-2014, 02:57 PM
#9
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I am very glad John is fixing the issue. This is a problem he inherited, and did not create. However, some better communication such as an email stating "these engines are still having issues" would of been nice so I knew I might expect issues on run up.
Customer service, we will see. Fixing this engine is not customer service, its avoiding lawsuits.
Lets see how they come through and compensate those who lost time and $$ due to this issue. Personally I am out $80 by the time I send it back again. I'd like to see some compensation such as a free servicing and an extended warranty on the repairs they are doing. I really don't think that is asking much and would be a token that Jetcat makes things right. We all make mistakes, but how we right them is really all that matters.
Dr Scoles: Buddy. You bash skymaster before and after your poor quality mig crashes, then get a free jet. Suddenly you chastise me for bashing skymaster in the same thread when I have all the same issues, and put your nose in the air acting like I am being a baby. You go as far to have my posts deleted from your thread (or they must of magically disappeared) where I bash skymaster, which I had a right to do. There was no more emotion or less fact in my posts than yours. You suddenly act like skymaster is OK because you got paid off. And then here you are bashing jetcat? Its ok for you to complain but not me? I deserve my rights just as much as you do and you denied me mine. I could live with that if I wasn't reading this garbage from you now.
A couple of quotes from you as I complained of issues and fears my jet would meets its demise like yours did. All this after you got paid off, and these are the same things you complained about before up to including calling the mig "cursed".
"If you want instructions, buy a BVM".
"If you expect quality, buy a BVM"
"There are plenty of skymaster migs out there flying"
I could sit here and say the same things to you and call the mods to delete your opinions. But I wont because this is how things work,. and how information is passed.
Instead, how about an apology from you for being a jackbutt and let me vent my issues as well as you do? Lets see how you right your mistakes and set things right.
Customer service, we will see. Fixing this engine is not customer service, its avoiding lawsuits.
Lets see how they come through and compensate those who lost time and $$ due to this issue. Personally I am out $80 by the time I send it back again. I'd like to see some compensation such as a free servicing and an extended warranty on the repairs they are doing. I really don't think that is asking much and would be a token that Jetcat makes things right. We all make mistakes, but how we right them is really all that matters.
Dr Scoles: Buddy. You bash skymaster before and after your poor quality mig crashes, then get a free jet. Suddenly you chastise me for bashing skymaster in the same thread when I have all the same issues, and put your nose in the air acting like I am being a baby. You go as far to have my posts deleted from your thread (or they must of magically disappeared) where I bash skymaster, which I had a right to do. There was no more emotion or less fact in my posts than yours. You suddenly act like skymaster is OK because you got paid off. And then here you are bashing jetcat? Its ok for you to complain but not me? I deserve my rights just as much as you do and you denied me mine. I could live with that if I wasn't reading this garbage from you now.
A couple of quotes from you as I complained of issues and fears my jet would meets its demise like yours did. All this after you got paid off, and these are the same things you complained about before up to including calling the mig "cursed".
"If you want instructions, buy a BVM".
"If you expect quality, buy a BVM"
"There are plenty of skymaster migs out there flying"
I could sit here and say the same things to you and call the mods to delete your opinions. But I wont because this is how things work,. and how information is passed.
Instead, how about an apology from you for being a jackbutt and let me vent my issues as well as you do? Lets see how you right your mistakes and set things right.
Last edited by essyou35; 07-22-2014 at 03:32 PM. Reason: Typos
07-22-2014, 03:39 PM
#10
essyou35, Whoa cowboy, not sure how you perceive that I came off like this. I wish you would have shared it with me earlier. I try really hard not to be judgmental to individuals who I've never met and have done nothing negative towards me. Businesses are a different story.
When did I mention, "Suddenly you chastise me for bashing skymaster in the same thread when I have all the same issues" Can't see doing that, if I did I apologize. Love to see where I said this. I did not get a free jet, nor did I ask for anything from them. How did you come to this conclusion? I shared my experience with them, and they offered to sell me something at a discount, which I accepted. I have never deleted or asked something to be deleted. I put quite a bit of thought into what I say on the interweb… I have been burned before.
I think you took my BVM references the wrong way. "Plenty of sky master migs out there" comment, its true. Matter of fact, hard to see how you could see that any other way. Why did mine fail on the first flight? No idea, but there is not a pattern of failure with this plane, never said there was. I shared my experience so that the next guy could double check his rudders, thats all.
This thread is about customer service. I experienced good customer service from skymaster after my plane crashed. Should I not have praised them for it?
When did I mention, "Suddenly you chastise me for bashing skymaster in the same thread when I have all the same issues" Can't see doing that, if I did I apologize. Love to see where I said this. I did not get a free jet, nor did I ask for anything from them. How did you come to this conclusion? I shared my experience with them, and they offered to sell me something at a discount, which I accepted. I have never deleted or asked something to be deleted. I put quite a bit of thought into what I say on the interweb… I have been burned before.
I think you took my BVM references the wrong way. "Plenty of sky master migs out there" comment, its true. Matter of fact, hard to see how you could see that any other way. Why did mine fail on the first flight? No idea, but there is not a pattern of failure with this plane, never said there was. I shared my experience so that the next guy could double check his rudders, thats all.
This thread is about customer service. I experienced good customer service from skymaster after my plane crashed. Should I not have praised them for it?
07-22-2014, 04:00 PM
#11
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So you are going to go make me dig out the posts to prove it? Have you no integrity? I am glad you got a discounted jet, but before that you were complaining about them not answering emails.
I was complaining they dont show you how to install the pipe, and then they send me a picture of a pipe install that is not even the same jet? Thats bad customer service and I called them out. You totally contradicted me in the posts. Further in an email from them they said yours crashed probably due to a bad pipe install. So guess what? I want them to show me how to install the pipe. Guess what? All you do spit garbage at me when I call them out on it. You didnt have them delete my posts? I HIGHLY doubt that.
In terms of a pattern, there are numerous threads on RCU about skymaster quality issues, which is what you and I dealt with. There are numerous jetcat out there flying including P180RX. I am not disputing an issue at all, and I actually agree with your comments. However. you seem to think its ok for you to complain and not me and I want to know why.
I dont come here and contradict your posts do I? I'm just calling you out on being a hypocrite and let me say what I want to say like get to.
Oh, and NOW you admit you didnt tighten the stabs? OH really? So why did you demand compensation from skymaster if it was your fault then? Because you blamed them and the quality UNTIL you got a "discounted jet".
Listen, I dont care what you got or didnt get, just quite being a hypocrite
I was complaining they dont show you how to install the pipe, and then they send me a picture of a pipe install that is not even the same jet? Thats bad customer service and I called them out. You totally contradicted me in the posts. Further in an email from them they said yours crashed probably due to a bad pipe install. So guess what? I want them to show me how to install the pipe. Guess what? All you do spit garbage at me when I call them out on it. You didnt have them delete my posts? I HIGHLY doubt that.
In terms of a pattern, there are numerous threads on RCU about skymaster quality issues, which is what you and I dealt with. There are numerous jetcat out there flying including P180RX. I am not disputing an issue at all, and I actually agree with your comments. However. you seem to think its ok for you to complain and not me and I want to know why.
I dont come here and contradict your posts do I? I'm just calling you out on being a hypocrite and let me say what I want to say like get to.
Oh, and NOW you admit you didnt tighten the stabs? OH really? So why did you demand compensation from skymaster if it was your fault then? Because you blamed them and the quality UNTIL you got a "discounted jet".
Listen, I dont care what you got or didnt get, just quite being a hypocrite
essyou35, Whoa cowboy, not sure how you perceive that I came off like this. I wish you would have shared it with me earlier. I try really hard not to be judgmental to individuals who I've never met and have done nothing negative towards me. Businesses are a different story.
When did I mention, "Suddenly you chastise me for bashing skymaster in the same thread when I have all the same issues" Can't see doing that, if I did I apologize. Love to see where I said this. I did not get a free jet, nor did I ask for anything from them. How did you come to this conclusion? I shared my experience with them, and they offered to sell me something at a discount, which I accepted. I have never deleted or asked something to be deleted. I put quite a bit of thought into what I say on the interweb… I have been burned before.
I think you took my BVM references the wrong way. "Plenty of sky master migs out there" comment, its true. Matter of fact, hard to see how you could see that any other way. Why did mine fail on the first flight? No idea, but there is not a pattern of failure with this plane, never said there was. I shared my experience so that the next guy could double check his rudders, thats all.
This thread is about customer service. I experienced good customer service from skymaster after my plane crashed. Should I not have praised them for it?
When did I mention, "Suddenly you chastise me for bashing skymaster in the same thread when I have all the same issues" Can't see doing that, if I did I apologize. Love to see where I said this. I did not get a free jet, nor did I ask for anything from them. How did you come to this conclusion? I shared my experience with them, and they offered to sell me something at a discount, which I accepted. I have never deleted or asked something to be deleted. I put quite a bit of thought into what I say on the interweb… I have been burned before.
I think you took my BVM references the wrong way. "Plenty of sky master migs out there" comment, its true. Matter of fact, hard to see how you could see that any other way. Why did mine fail on the first flight? No idea, but there is not a pattern of failure with this plane, never said there was. I shared my experience so that the next guy could double check his rudders, thats all.
This thread is about customer service. I experienced good customer service from skymaster after my plane crashed. Should I not have praised them for it?
Last edited by essyou35; 07-22-2014 at 04:13 PM.
07-22-2014, 04:31 PM
#13
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Trust me , I voiced your concerns to John at Kentucky about lack of communication the and the honest answer is John is the only one who can answer your mail or tech questions and there is not enough of him to go around right now. The move and the shop time to fix the P-180 issue was the number one priority. Add to that the routine repairs of the 10,000 plus jetcat turbines that are in the field didn't leave much time for one on one customer service. Dennis is aware of this also as he got an earful from me in the beginning. There both working hard to make all JetCat USA owners happy customers. I would have to say that John landed in a hornets nest with the 180 and yes the where tested before they left Germany . The problem is that its not the same conditions as here and the passed the qc in Germany. The motors that failed where under hard acceleration on a hot humid day. That's the way mine and two others I sold let go. The fix or recall never identified the true cause of the rough running and the failures because the parts that where being changed where not the culprit. Its that simple. No one here is blowing smoke, and there is never excuse for poor customer service just honest answers as to what went wrong and why. Every manufacturer has problems and issues that need to be resolved and this was one of them. I have been with JetCat since from the first version P-80 and the turbine helicopter mechanics, the P-160 problems , the P200 shaft failures and several other less than perfect motors. They where all resolved, as this issue is soon to be put to rest as well. If for some reason you cant reach John and you have questions about the 180 or the auto tune software in the V10 ECU pm me and I will do my best to help you.
Regards,
Don DeSandre
well said don john will have jetcat where it belongs on top
Regards,
Don DeSandre
well said don john will have jetcat where it belongs on top
07-22-2014, 04:32 PM
#14
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07-22-2014, 04:41 PM
#15
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I recently sent back two ECU's, one didn't work and the other worked but smelled like it was smoked and John turned them around in ONE DAY.
One was covered under warranty, the other needed a board. The total cost was $150 including next day postage.
Also, no problem with communication, spoke to him several times about the problems.
I don't know of problems in the past, but my experience was great.
Jon
One was covered under warranty, the other needed a board. The total cost was $150 including next day postage.
Also, no problem with communication, spoke to him several times about the problems.
I don't know of problems in the past, but my experience was great.
Jon
07-22-2014, 05:50 PM
#17
So you are going to go make me dig out the posts to prove it? Have you no integrity? I am glad you got a discounted jet, but before that you were complaining about them not answering emails.
I was complaining they dont show you how to install the pipe, and then they send me a picture of a pipe install that is not even the same jet? Thats bad customer service and I called them out. You totally contradicted me in the posts. Further in an email from them they said yours crashed probably due to a bad pipe install. So guess what? I want them to show me how to install the pipe. Guess what? All you do spit garbage at me when I call them out on it. You didnt have them delete my posts? I HIGHLY doubt that.
In terms of a pattern, there are numerous threads on RCU about skymaster quality issues, which is what you and I dealt with. There are numerous jetcat out there flying including P180RX. I am not disputing an issue at all, and I actually agree with your comments. However. you seem to think its ok for you to complain and not me and I want to know why.
I dont come here and contradict your posts do I? I'm just calling you out on being a hypocrite and let me say what I want to say like get to.
Oh, and NOW you admit you didnt tighten the stabs? OH really? So why did you demand compensation from skymaster if it was your fault then? Because you blamed them and the quality UNTIL you got a "discounted jet".
Listen, I dont care what you got or didnt get, just quite being a hypocrite
I was complaining they dont show you how to install the pipe, and then they send me a picture of a pipe install that is not even the same jet? Thats bad customer service and I called them out. You totally contradicted me in the posts. Further in an email from them they said yours crashed probably due to a bad pipe install. So guess what? I want them to show me how to install the pipe. Guess what? All you do spit garbage at me when I call them out on it. You didnt have them delete my posts? I HIGHLY doubt that.
In terms of a pattern, there are numerous threads on RCU about skymaster quality issues, which is what you and I dealt with. There are numerous jetcat out there flying including P180RX. I am not disputing an issue at all, and I actually agree with your comments. However. you seem to think its ok for you to complain and not me and I want to know why.
I dont come here and contradict your posts do I? I'm just calling you out on being a hypocrite and let me say what I want to say like get to.
Oh, and NOW you admit you didnt tighten the stabs? OH really? So why did you demand compensation from skymaster if it was your fault then? Because you blamed them and the quality UNTIL you got a "discounted jet".
Listen, I dont care what you got or didnt get, just quite being a hypocrite
Sorry to drag down this thread that seems to be going in the right direction, but I have to reply to this one.....
Dude, Essyou, I hope to god you are drinking tonight, that would be the only reasonable explanation for what is coming out of your mouth. You think I would ask someone to delete your posts? How could I have the power to do that? Moreover, why would I care what you say? I have a feeling you have doubts about the pentagon being hit by an airplane flown by terrorists. Do you know who shot kennedy? Please at least tell me you vaccinate your kids? Skymaster told you my plane crashed because of a bad pipe install? I put numerous pictures of this install, and tested the hell out of it before it was flown. This is news to me. I am admitting that I didn't tighten stabs? You used your superior deductive reasoning and took my comment about "checking rudders" as me not tightening them? I showed post crash pics of the 4mm bolts still attached to the back of the fuse and the bottom half of the rudder. Wouldn't the whole thing have come off if I didn't tighten them? I think you can see from the way I build things that I have some semblance of attention to detail.
Ask sky master or Patty at BVM if I demanded anything. I did not ask for anything, zero. I told them about the crash and did say I was disappointed. I was very careful in not asking for anything, didn't think it was polite. I would be a fool to not take up the offer of purchasing an obviously well tested plane that is highly desirable for half price. You probably would have turned them down.
As I stated in a private message to you, (I tried to keep this petty argument off the board) I spent time specifically trying to help you with your Mig and you some how construe it as be chastising you, turning a 180, being a hypocrite, and to top it off....questioning my integrity. Awesome. Surprised you didn't throw in a comment about my small johnson.
Sorry guys, I'm done.
07-22-2014, 07:11 PM
#18
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All I can say is there was pre 180rx jet cat and post 180rx jet cat. Many people have lost faith in there products and will not buy there products again not when other vendors are producing superior products for lower prices and don't have issues which require sending turbines in 2-3 times with a fix that may or may not work.
The best customer support is the one you never need.
The best customer support is the one you never need.
07-23-2014, 12:12 PM
#20
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Back on Topic;
Either way they Have A Big QC issue at JetCat.
My last three turbines, P100RX, P200 and finally my P180RX. All new, all returned for upgrades and postages at my expense.
Great PR campaign, however Jet Cat is still putting items to market before they are proven.
Demoing a few choice engines on a look at this show & tell is not helping me or my confidence in these engines.
They should have put their intentions out there so the rest of us Jet Cat owners could have benefited.
No comments necessary, Have nice day.
Either way they Have A Big QC issue at JetCat.
My last three turbines, P100RX, P200 and finally my P180RX. All new, all returned for upgrades and postages at my expense.
Great PR campaign, however Jet Cat is still putting items to market before they are proven.
Demoing a few choice engines on a look at this show & tell is not helping me or my confidence in these engines.
They should have put their intentions out there so the rest of us Jet Cat owners could have benefited.
No comments necessary, Have nice day.
07-23-2014, 12:51 PM
#21
I've been a jetcat fanboy since the day I started flying jets. I love their reliability, the ease of set up and their GSU, which is second to NONE in the hobby. PERIOD.
Bob Wilcox was, and I'm sure still is, a gentleman's gentleman. One of the most helpful and gracious guys I've ever met. Hands down.
Jetcat's turn around time? Or having engines in stock? Friggin horrible.
I recently sent my P200 for a "well baby" check and that was surprisingly fast. Just a few weeks.
Taking care of their VERY large pool of existing customers is just as important (or more!) as R and D.
Because of the lack of timely service and engine availability, I've recently added other turbines (with similar stellar reliability reviews) to my quiver of engines.
Steadfast reliability
Impeccable Service
Competitive Pricing
The trifecta of the turbine engine manufacture business model. I'd love to see JetCat continue on the up and up.
Bob Wilcox was, and I'm sure still is, a gentleman's gentleman. One of the most helpful and gracious guys I've ever met. Hands down.
Jetcat's turn around time? Or having engines in stock? Friggin horrible.
I recently sent my P200 for a "well baby" check and that was surprisingly fast. Just a few weeks.
Taking care of their VERY large pool of existing customers is just as important (or more!) as R and D.
Because of the lack of timely service and engine availability, I've recently added other turbines (with similar stellar reliability reviews) to my quiver of engines.
Steadfast reliability
Impeccable Service
Competitive Pricing
The trifecta of the turbine engine manufacture business model. I'd love to see JetCat continue on the up and up.
07-23-2014, 02:01 PM
#22
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I gave up on Jetcat about a year ago. Its good to hear they are trying to get better but whooo boy they have thier work cut out. Too many choices for much less expensive yet proven engines/customer support/etc etc now. I think it might be too little too late.
07-24-2014, 01:19 AM
#25
Hi
So, in the end what is the big fix that Jetcat USA as made? Is it top secret or can be shared?
I thought Jetcat R&D was in Germany...
By the way, I have a NIB P180RX that as not run yet.
Regards
Nuno
So, in the end what is the big fix that Jetcat USA as made? Is it top secret or can be shared?
I thought Jetcat R&D was in Germany...
By the way, I have a NIB P180RX that as not run yet.
Regards
Nuno