BV's letters to AMA and FAA
07-30-2014, 11:02 AM
#201
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I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens. Even though I argue/debate my opinions, I can certainly understand and respect other members reasoning. I think for the most part, everyone has given a reasonable and logical explantion of what they believe the outcome of all this will be. And anyone of us may have predicted the outcome. I just hope it turns out to be in our favor or at least not hinder the hobby, minus any type of FPV.
07-30-2014, 12:51 PM
#202
Senior Member
I have been flying models for 25 years. Once I tried FPV I was done with LOS flying. I find LOS flying as limiting and pointless as control line flying. I used to have a lot of respect for Bob Violett as an innovator. Now I see him as a small minded relic clinging to the past.
07-30-2014, 12:59 PM
#203
I have been flying models for 25 years. Once I tried FPV I was done with LOS flying. I find LOS flying as limiting and pointless as control line flying. I used to have a lot of respect for Bob Violett as an innovator. Now I see him as a small minded relic clinging to the past.
07-30-2014, 01:07 PM
#204
Senior Member
Big deal 25 years. Wow, bored with LOS.. Whoopie, Mr. hipster only flys FPV now. Get over yourself and show some respect toward a pioneer in our hobby who created the worlds highest quality models that we all CURRENTLY enjoy flying. You look like a total douche making a comment like that on this board.
As for you Andy, I had none for you and still have none since the only argument you can make is calling a 42 year old man a "Hipster" and a "Douche". I'll debate you anyday.
07-30-2014, 02:29 PM
#211
Not sure when this was posted by the FAA, but it looks like most of the discussion might be over.
http://www.faa.gov/uas/
http://www.faa.gov/uas/publications/...aft_operators/
Just noticed this date on the page: Page last modified: June 25, 2014 12:31:27 PM EDT
http://www.faa.gov/uas/
http://www.faa.gov/uas/publications/...aft_operators/
Just noticed this date on the page: Page last modified: June 25, 2014 12:31:27 PM EDT
Last edited by 8178; 07-30-2014 at 02:47 PM.
07-30-2014, 02:53 PM
#214
I have been flying models for 25 years. Once I tried FPV I was done with LOS flying. I find LOS flying as limiting and pointless as control line flying. I used to have a lot of respect for Bob Violett as an innovator. Now I see him as a small minded relic clinging to the past.
Well I suggest that you spend more time over at diydrones.com and try to get your FPV comrades under control, or soon your FPV gear is going to end up yard sale material in Canada or Mexico.
07-30-2014, 05:02 PM
#217
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Really BOB, Fpv is not for MORONS sure you could probably wire one up but can you do it without interference. Just as there are terrible PLANE pilots I have actually been hit while behind flight line by one of these Genius's but that not the issue if they regulate FPV and require airworthiness certificates or what ever wisdom the FAA is hell bent on doing or just banning all model aircraft WE all lose I fly 98" Gas Mustangs, Wings Zephyr and Ziggy as well as EXTRA's Goblin 700's 500's and FPV Multicopters so I think generalizations are wrong here. People need to voice opinion on the comment page and I have enclosed a model letter for people who might not be as prolific. The point is we have been operating under AMA clubs and guidelines with success now that the average guy can whip out an AMEX and get a "Drone" Phantom or some other type of entry level device they are not educated and need to be. I belong to AMA for 30 years (675852) and I enjoy the two clubs I belong too. I also join NYDUG (New York Drone User Group) and was surprised to see the tech and type of equipment and expertise they have but nowhere to fly or anyone to guide them. I suggest you reconsider and embrace new tech and new ideas (i.e.(FPV) as a way to strengthen our RC hobby division is not the point. IMO
As you may or may not know, the FAA has recently published an interpretation of the law that protects Model Aviation from overburdensome FAA regulation (Public Law 112-95 / Section 336). In their interpretation, the FAA tries to say that FPV does not fall under their definition of Model Aviation and is therefore regulated by the FAA --- which effectively would result in no more legal hobby FPV flight in the USA. Such gross misinterpretation of the law by the FAA is an obvious outrage to all FPV hobbyists and companies like GetFPV.
We promote safe FPV flight and see no reason why the US should become a country where hobby FPV is outlawed. Please spend a few minutes to provide your thoughtful feedback about this on regulations.gov. You can focus on what FPV means to you, how safely FPV can be enjoyed, or what you think generally of the FAA's attempt to regulate model aviation and FPV.
SEPTEMBER 22nd is the last day to make your voice be heard! It only takes a couple of minutes to fill out the online form.
PROVIDE YOUR FEEDBACK TO THE FAA
LETTER EXAMPLE
Here is some information regarding the FAA recent interpretation of the regulation involving all model aircraft it is important to have our comments posted to show how many people it will effect.We also wanted to get in touch to let those of you in the United States know about some important actions you can take to support the drone flying community in this country. The FAA recently published a draft document entitled "Interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft" that is potentially very damaging to the FPV community. If implemented, this legal interpretation would outlaw FPV flying with goggles, and generally insert greater FAA interference with recreational use of unmanned aerial systems (UAS).The agency is legally obliged to offer a comment period and now is the time to make our voices heard before the FAA takes away our legal rights! The comment period closes September 22 (even though the site incorrectly lists July 25th as the closing date), so visithttp://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FAA-2014-0396-0001 and post your response before that time.Below is some suggested language you can use in your comments. Please feel free to copy it, adapt it, or write something completely new, but please consider helping let the FAA know that our community will not let them place unnecessary and unlawful restrictions on this activity that we are so passionate about!"I am a UAS operator and enjoy flying my systems for recreation. I read with great dismay the FAA’s recently published Interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft, which will undermine this activity I am passionate about, the industry that supports it, and the many individuals who are contributing to innovation in the aerospace sector as recreational users.The FAA seems to have taken the most restrictive possible stance in regards to first person view (FPV) flying, essentially banning the increasingly popular practice of flying using goggles streaming from a camera mounted on the model aircraft. There is no evidence that any significant risks to the NAS comes from FPV flying when people follow community based guidelines such as those issued by the Academy of Model Aeronautics, which you are obviously referencing in footnote 2, and requires FPV flying to be done with a spotter who maintains visual line of sight (VLOS) and who is capable of taking control of the craft in the case that they observe anything unsafe happening. There is no reason why this two-person team can’t be considered to be operating the aircraft together and therefore maintain the VLOS criteria mentioned in FAA Modernization and Reform Act.Overall, it is clear that the FAA is intending to circumvent Congress’ intention to allow model aircraft use to be governed by community-based organizations. Your statement that “The FAA interprets the section 336 rule making prohibition as one that must be evaluated on a rule-by-rule basis,” provides an interpretation of your authority that is so broad as to render Congress’ clear intention meaningless and creates unnecessary uncertainty amongst the community of model aircraft pilots. Community based organizations have been issuing safety guidelines since well before the FAA was founded and have an exemplary record in maintaining public and operator safety.It is unfortunate that the FAA has decided to take an antagonistic approach towards the model aircraft community. Non-commercial users of UAS technology have an important role to play in contributing to aerospace innovation in the United States. By restricting our community’s activities beyond what is strictly needed to maintain public safety, the FAA is undermining American competitiveness as other countries allow much more freedom for both non-commercial and commercial use of UAS. We hope the FAA will reconsider both the specific additional restrictions being placed on model aircraft pilots that are outlined above as well as its overall approach to engaging with our community. "
As you may or may not know, the FAA has recently published an interpretation of the law that protects Model Aviation from overburdensome FAA regulation (Public Law 112-95 / Section 336). In their interpretation, the FAA tries to say that FPV does not fall under their definition of Model Aviation and is therefore regulated by the FAA --- which effectively would result in no more legal hobby FPV flight in the USA. Such gross misinterpretation of the law by the FAA is an obvious outrage to all FPV hobbyists and companies like GetFPV.
We promote safe FPV flight and see no reason why the US should become a country where hobby FPV is outlawed. Please spend a few minutes to provide your thoughtful feedback about this on regulations.gov. You can focus on what FPV means to you, how safely FPV can be enjoyed, or what you think generally of the FAA's attempt to regulate model aviation and FPV.
SEPTEMBER 22nd is the last day to make your voice be heard! It only takes a couple of minutes to fill out the online form.
PROVIDE YOUR FEEDBACK TO THE FAA
LETTER EXAMPLE
Here is some information regarding the FAA recent interpretation of the regulation involving all model aircraft it is important to have our comments posted to show how many people it will effect.We also wanted to get in touch to let those of you in the United States know about some important actions you can take to support the drone flying community in this country. The FAA recently published a draft document entitled "Interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft" that is potentially very damaging to the FPV community. If implemented, this legal interpretation would outlaw FPV flying with goggles, and generally insert greater FAA interference with recreational use of unmanned aerial systems (UAS).The agency is legally obliged to offer a comment period and now is the time to make our voices heard before the FAA takes away our legal rights! The comment period closes September 22 (even though the site incorrectly lists July 25th as the closing date), so visithttp://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FAA-2014-0396-0001 and post your response before that time.Below is some suggested language you can use in your comments. Please feel free to copy it, adapt it, or write something completely new, but please consider helping let the FAA know that our community will not let them place unnecessary and unlawful restrictions on this activity that we are so passionate about!"I am a UAS operator and enjoy flying my systems for recreation. I read with great dismay the FAA’s recently published Interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft, which will undermine this activity I am passionate about, the industry that supports it, and the many individuals who are contributing to innovation in the aerospace sector as recreational users.The FAA seems to have taken the most restrictive possible stance in regards to first person view (FPV) flying, essentially banning the increasingly popular practice of flying using goggles streaming from a camera mounted on the model aircraft. There is no evidence that any significant risks to the NAS comes from FPV flying when people follow community based guidelines such as those issued by the Academy of Model Aeronautics, which you are obviously referencing in footnote 2, and requires FPV flying to be done with a spotter who maintains visual line of sight (VLOS) and who is capable of taking control of the craft in the case that they observe anything unsafe happening. There is no reason why this two-person team can’t be considered to be operating the aircraft together and therefore maintain the VLOS criteria mentioned in FAA Modernization and Reform Act.Overall, it is clear that the FAA is intending to circumvent Congress’ intention to allow model aircraft use to be governed by community-based organizations. Your statement that “The FAA interprets the section 336 rule making prohibition as one that must be evaluated on a rule-by-rule basis,” provides an interpretation of your authority that is so broad as to render Congress’ clear intention meaningless and creates unnecessary uncertainty amongst the community of model aircraft pilots. Community based organizations have been issuing safety guidelines since well before the FAA was founded and have an exemplary record in maintaining public and operator safety.It is unfortunate that the FAA has decided to take an antagonistic approach towards the model aircraft community. Non-commercial users of UAS technology have an important role to play in contributing to aerospace innovation in the United States. By restricting our community’s activities beyond what is strictly needed to maintain public safety, the FAA is undermining American competitiveness as other countries allow much more freedom for both non-commercial and commercial use of UAS. We hope the FAA will reconsider both the specific additional restrictions being placed on model aircraft pilots that are outlined above as well as its overall approach to engaging with our community. "
07-30-2014, 05:56 PM
#219
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Always someone trying to beat system. The issue is the cost of entry (crashing building and understanding) has dropped which is good More people can enjoy hobby and bad More people can destroy hobby. Same as gun control... You can buy a gun and be responsible or you can be a criminal what do you choose.... Guns are not the issue just a medium and Im not a gun owner...Same issue different place
07-30-2014, 05:56 PM
#220
This is my point exactly, these products are very easy to fly and therefore less disciplined individuals will use them stupidly. Public use versions need to be far less capable and smaller than licensed versions in an effort to filter who uses them and for what purpose.
Not a big deal, join a club, get involved, get certified, go fly. Just like RC turbine pilots do.
07-30-2014, 06:30 PM
#221
Always someone trying to beat system. The issue is the cost of entry (crashing building and understanding) has dropped which is good More people can enjoy hobby and bad More people can destroy hobby. Same as gun control... You can buy a gun and be responsible or you can be a criminal what do you choose.... Guns are not the issue just a medium and Im not a gun owner...Same issue different place
07-30-2014, 06:48 PM
#222
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Amazed....well maybe not....at the number of people posting that have (until now) not been seen on the RC Jets/turbine forum.......
FPV/BLOS defenders and Hot Stove League guys that must use the search function to find the "argument du jour"? .
FPV/BLOS defenders and Hot Stove League guys that must use the search function to find the "argument du jour"? .
Last edited by speed is life; 07-30-2014 at 08:32 PM.
07-30-2014, 08:03 PM
#223
Does it really matter if someone's been in the jet forum or not? The way I see it, this is an issue that will, sooner than later, be spread across all of the R/C hobby. I myself am concerned that, with the abundant numbers and access to ARF/ARR models, we will be seeing boats and cars running around the lakes and streets with the operator blocks away. Just think of the repercussions of a small child being hit by FPV buggy while playing in the front yard with the driver on the next street. I know, surface vehicles don't have the same radio range as a plane but, with the new radio tech, the range is being extended. It won't be long until someone that doesn't understand how an R/C really works tries to see how far away they can drive FPV, not realizing that they need to enable a fail safe first. I see serious full sized auto accidents, homes and people being hit and another facet of our hobby made to suffer because of idiots
07-31-2014, 04:41 AM
#225
Yesterday I was all set to do a jet demo for some groups of kids at a summer camp about aviation. Everything was all set up. But then last minute I was told by the tower that they cant allow any DRONES to fly in their airspace. All the kids where very upset. Me knowing they are wrong and I am not flying a drone I pulled up some info and educated the guys at the tower about what I was doing and how I would have an aircraft radio with me to maintain contact and respect the airspace. After half a day of talking to these guys I got the clearance to do the demo. All the kids loved it and I hope it will inspire some to try RC planes now.
This has never been a problem before until now. We are all getting labeled as flying drones. I dont like anything being regulated by the government. I deal with the FAA on the full scale aircraft I maintain and know how incompetent they are. The big problem here is the FPV flying has given us all a label now as drones.
Another example of how FPV flying is a whole different animal. We where all at the flying field several months ago. No one was flying at the time we where all taking a break from the sun in the shade. We all stood around and watched a high wing trainer airplane enter the pattern fly around and do a touch and go then fly away. We still have no clue where this aircraft came from or who was flying it. Flying beyond visual range is a problem and its what getting us all the label as flying DRONES.
I dont have any problem with FPV if its done right. You need a spotter that can maintain visual contact the entire flight. Flying beyond visual range should never be allowed IMO. I know the FPV guys feel like we are all gaining up on them but the bottom line is they are something totally different. Model aviation is about airplanes and helicopters and the love of flight. These quadcopters and other aircraft are a different animal and are geared for taking a gopro up and doing videos to me that's not what model aviation is about.
This has never been a problem before until now. We are all getting labeled as flying drones. I dont like anything being regulated by the government. I deal with the FAA on the full scale aircraft I maintain and know how incompetent they are. The big problem here is the FPV flying has given us all a label now as drones.
Another example of how FPV flying is a whole different animal. We where all at the flying field several months ago. No one was flying at the time we where all taking a break from the sun in the shade. We all stood around and watched a high wing trainer airplane enter the pattern fly around and do a touch and go then fly away. We still have no clue where this aircraft came from or who was flying it. Flying beyond visual range is a problem and its what getting us all the label as flying DRONES.
I dont have any problem with FPV if its done right. You need a spotter that can maintain visual contact the entire flight. Flying beyond visual range should never be allowed IMO. I know the FPV guys feel like we are all gaining up on them but the bottom line is they are something totally different. Model aviation is about airplanes and helicopters and the love of flight. These quadcopters and other aircraft are a different animal and are geared for taking a gopro up and doing videos to me that's not what model aviation is about.
