Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > RC Jets
Reload this Page >

BV's letters to AMA and FAA

Notices
RC Jets Discuss RC jets in this forum plus rc turbines and ducted fan power systems

BV's letters to AMA and FAA

Old 08-18-2014, 09:58 AM
  #401  
Chris Nicastro
My Feedback: (3)
 
Chris Nicastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID
Posts: 3,146
Received 24 Likes on 22 Posts
Default

Heres a graphic video of the possible injuries a DGI Phantom with carbon blades can cause. This guy is in a park trying it out just like any park flier pilot would do. He even has prop guards on it from what I can see. For the most part things are going well until he tries something and it goes wrong.
The point is these small vehicles have a lot of power for their size and in a novice hands around the public open areas like parks, etc, its only a matter of time before more serious injuries happen.
We have seen at our club while performing for special needs kids one of them chasing after a taxiing plane. In a park without people spotting for the pilot its very easy to imagine child running to grab a copter especially a DGI because it looks like a toy.

Anyways, more support for getting people to realize the responsibility of owning and operating these AC and why they need to be regulated in some form.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8d9_1407980380
Old 08-18-2014, 11:22 AM
  #402  
AndyAndrews
 
AndyAndrews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 6,147
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Chris Nicastro
Heres a graphic video of the possible injuries a DGI Phantom with carbon blades can cause. This guy is in a park trying it out just like any park flier pilot would do. He even has prop guards on it from what I can see. For the most part things are going well until he tries something and it goes wrong.
The point is these small vehicles have a lot of power for their size and in a novice hands around the public open areas like parks, etc, its only a matter of time before more serious injuries happen.
We have seen at our club while performing for special needs kids one of them chasing after a taxiing plane. In a park without people spotting for the pilot its very easy to imagine child running to grab a copter especially a DGI because it looks like a toy.

Anyways, more support for getting people to realize the responsibility of owning and operating these AC and why they need to be regulated in some form.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8d9_1407980380
Although informative on what these things can do, just like any other prop airplane, this has nothing to to with the FAA or the topic at hand.
Old 08-18-2014, 11:45 AM
  #403  
Vettster
 
Vettster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Beeton, Ontario, CANADA
Posts: 1,337
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

I dont think any other prop plane flys in a park. We know for a fact that FPV prop aircraft do. While the gent in the video was not flying FPV.. Its just one step away from it. As Chris Nicastro
said.... Its just a matter of time before someone(a child perhaps) gets hit with one of these.
Old 08-18-2014, 11:51 AM
  #404  
AndyAndrews
 
AndyAndrews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 6,147
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Vettster
I dont think any other prop plane flys in a park. We know for a fact that FPV prop aircraft do. While the gent in the video was not flying FPV.. Its just one step away from it. As Chris Nicastro
said.... Its just a matter of time before someone(a child perhaps) gets hit with one of these.
Off course other types fly in parks! All of the time! There are tons of electric park flyers out there. Either way it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the subject at hand!
Old 08-18-2014, 11:55 AM
  #405  
Vettster
 
Vettster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Beeton, Ontario, CANADA
Posts: 1,337
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

It does when you take the FPV platform that the gent was flying, add goggles and fly it into an unsuspecting by-passer!

Last edited by Vettster; 08-18-2014 at 11:57 AM.
Old 08-18-2014, 08:37 PM
  #406  
Chris Nicastro
My Feedback: (3)
 
Chris Nicastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID
Posts: 3,146
Received 24 Likes on 22 Posts
Default

Well when one comes falling out of the sky because the battery died or whatever and it drops on an unsuspecting crowd on the boardwalk then that video demonstrates the potential carnage it can cause.
Its relevance in regard to this thread is the novice operator in a public space plus the injury he sustained. This could have happened to someone on the Seattle boardwalk or anywhere just the same, see other video I posted.

This isnt a stretch or leap to see what could happen unless we just need to see a new video of a catasrophic incident caused by a drone in order to prove the point. Lets be proactive and not reactive.
Old 08-19-2014, 03:33 AM
  #407  
krzy4rc
My Feedback: (2)
 
krzy4rc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: LA
Posts: 78
Received 6 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Carnage??? Geez
Old 08-19-2014, 09:49 AM
  #408  
patf
My Feedback: (4)
 
patf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,886
Received 54 Likes on 46 Posts
Default

Perhaps in lieu of the AMA representing this area, they have a bigger ally they should be hitching up to and let the AMA not carry the torch.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2...sive/13966157/
Old 08-22-2014, 02:14 PM
  #409  
Vettster
 
Vettster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Beeton, Ontario, CANADA
Posts: 1,337
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

For your viewing pleasure... And!! Hobbyking is going to be flying with these guys this weekend. I hope Transport Canada follows suit and bans FPV here too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHV8gidxP-M#t=87
Old 08-22-2014, 05:00 PM
  #410  
invertmast
My Feedback: (23)
 
invertmast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Capon Bridge, WV
Posts: 8,192
Received 223 Likes on 114 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Vettster
For your viewing pleasure... And!! Hobbyking is going to be flying with these guys this weekend. I hope Transport Canada follows suit and bans FPV here too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHV8gidxP-M#t=87

Atleast they had their hazards on! Haha
Old 10-27-2015, 08:18 PM
  #411  
cagmo
My Feedback: (118)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 93
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

So.... I just re-read Bob V. letter to AMA. (see first page of this thread). Did he read the future? Re-read it and tell me he's not spot on, on every word.
Old 10-27-2015, 09:05 PM
  #412  
DUCMOZ
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: , WA
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
Received 26 Likes on 22 Posts
Default

If you look at Moel Aviation magazine and the AMA presidents column, you I'll see that they absolutely don't care what the true modelers that have been the back bone of AMA from the start want and they are following the false smell of the money and chasing the drone trend. In addition making the false statement that only the non AMA drone pilots cause problem while we see otherwise in local clubs. It is simply sad.
Old 10-28-2015, 06:42 AM
  #413  
jws_aces
My Feedback: (33)
 
jws_aces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Salem, Va
Posts: 1,048
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I am starting to ask why we need AMA any more? Can some one tell me why? I know we used them for Insurance reason but that is all. If the FAA and State or Local Goverments are who we are to follow now again what is the need to feed the PIG? I have been a member of AMA for over 25 years and never had a claim or needed anything from them.
Old 10-28-2015, 07:33 AM
  #414  
jfetter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: MIRAMAR, FL
Posts: 511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by cagmo
So.... I just re-read Bob V. letter to AMA. (see first page of this thread). Did he read the future? Re-read it and tell me he's not spot on, on every word.
You are correct! I never could understand why some went after him the way they did, he's smart guy who's been around the block and works closely with the Govt. with the drone side of his business, he's not just making it up...

Jack
Old 10-28-2015, 07:35 AM
  #415  
jfetter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: MIRAMAR, FL
Posts: 511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by jws_aces
I am starting to ask why we need AMA any more? Can some one tell me why? I know we used them for Insurance reason but that is all. If the FAA and State or Local Goverments are who we are to follow now again what is the need to feed the PIG? I have been a member of AMA for over 25 years and never had a claim or needed anything from them.
That's a little harsh, seems everyone says that when they get mad but I assure you, without the AMA, we'd be royally screwed! Also, who else is going to step up, a lot of big talk from a lot of people but when it comes time to put up, most say nothing or help in any way...

Jack
Old 10-28-2015, 08:06 AM
  #416  
AdrianM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
Posts: 710
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

The "Drone Trend" huh? I bet in the 60's the Control Line guys were saying the same thing about the "Radio Control Trend".
Old 10-28-2015, 08:25 AM
  #417  
jws_aces
My Feedback: (33)
 
jws_aces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Salem, Va
Posts: 1,048
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by jfetter
That's a little harsh, seems everyone says that when they get mad but I assure you, without the AMA, we'd be royally screwed! Also, who else is going to step up, a lot of big talk from a lot of people but when it comes time to put up, most say nothing or help in any way...

Jack
No I am not mad. I just don't understand what would be the need for them once all this legislation goes in to place. If the FAA and Government will not let AMA be the govern body for the hobby then what is the need for them? In the past we have always followed the rules and regulations that AMA put out. I understand that is wasn't law but is was look at as just that. That would keep you from civil issues if you followed them.

Now there rules are not as important because the FAA gets make the rules and regulations that soon to be a law. If they move forward with their proposal it appears that you not allowed to fly anything above 400ft. That is going to bepretty much the end of the flying anything bigger that a small foam park flyer.

Shouldn't the AMA be petitioning all the members to contact out state representatives to let them know how its paying members feel about this new perposal? Or is everyone wanting these new rules?


I have been a member of the AOPA for 10years and they have been more involved with FAA and been on the pilots side in helping overcome all the new regulations since 9/11. I have not received anything from AMA asking to contacta government official about this issue.
Old 10-28-2015, 08:25 AM
  #418  
DUCMOZ
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: , WA
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
Received 26 Likes on 22 Posts
Default

I personally look at AMA like other insurance companies. they congratulate you for getting the new car and then raise your rate! AMA needed the modelers. But now they think that they can make money from the drone people so the modeling and modelers take the back seat. From what I heard, within AMA, most West Coast officials are for the modelers and the support for UAV / Drones is by east coast team. Like everything else, should they not listen to the majority of modeling members, they will find out about their error when it is too late as no UAV / Drone member would ever have the passion that we see in the modelers. Today drones are cool so they jump on that and tomorrow will be the Hover Board.
Old 10-28-2015, 08:50 AM
  #419  
Bob_B
My Feedback: (11)
 
Bob_B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Bluegrass State of Mind
Posts: 4,691
Received 81 Likes on 70 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by AdrianM
The "Drone Trend" huh? I bet in the 60's the Control Line guys were saying the same thing about the "Radio Control Trend".
One big difference, R/C and Controline are "flown line of sight" as are some "Drones" it those drones that are being flown outside of this, that are causing the problems.
Old 10-28-2015, 08:51 AM
  #420  
jws_aces
My Feedback: (33)
 
jws_aces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Salem, Va
Posts: 1,048
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by DUCMOZ
I personally look at AMA like other insurance companies. they congratulate you for getting the new car and then raise your rate! AMA needed the modelers. But now they think that they can make money from the drone people so the modeling and modelers take the back seat. From what I heard, within AMA, most West Coast officials are for the modelers and the support for UAV / Drones is by east coast team. Like everything else, should they not listen to the majority of modeling members, they will find out about their error when it is too late as no UAV / Drone member would ever have the passion that we see in the modelers. Today drones are cool so they jump on that and tomorrow will be the Hover Board.
This is the point that Bob and others like myself are upset about. Just because the Quad and FPV are causing the issues the modelers of the past that have been paying dues are not being representated or seperated from these rulings. That is where the AMA should be trying to support it's members.
Old 10-28-2015, 09:31 AM
  #421  
DMichael
My Feedback: (5)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 976
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by AdrianM
The "Drone Trend" huh? I bet in the 60's the Control Line guys were saying the same thing about the "Radio Control Trend".
Adrian,

I think the difference is that when radio control came along it did not affect the control line flyers. No restrictions or threats to their opportunity to continue to fly control line. In this case, however, it's clear that the "drone trend" is causing ripples that are now resulting in real restrictions and real future threats to the traditional radio control flyer.

I respect anyone's right to fly their FPV / quadcopter safely as long as what you do doesn't result in restrictions of my rights. Unfortunately that's exactly what is happening. Certainly you can understand why that is irritating.

Last edited by DMichael; 10-28-2015 at 09:36 AM.
Old 10-28-2015, 12:23 PM
  #422  
rhklenke
My Feedback: (24)
 
rhklenke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 5,997
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes on 20 Posts
Default

You can see from my posts at the beginning of this thread that I was initially in agreement with Bob's positions.

Since then, I have had the opportunity to have a fairly long conversation with Dave Mathewson and Bob Brown about this. They have spent a great deal of time dealing with these issues, and have put a great deal of thought into it. I believe that their approach is to basically work with the FAA, as best as can be done, to be "part of the solution, not part of the problem." That approach appears to them to be the best way to stay engaged with the FAA and get a seat at the table when the rules are being hashed out. I'm not the one to be able to say with 100% certainty that this will work, or even if its the best approach, but in their minds, it is, and they are much closer to the goings-on than I am.

One thing is for sure, *nobody* is going to be able to put the "drone" genie back in the bottle. They are *big* business (compared to other hobby spending, anyway) and they are going to continue to sell, at least until some other shiny widget comes out. As such, the FAA is going to have to find a way to deal with them, and since they really don't know a thing about them, they are going to have to have help to figure it out. Hopefully, with the AMA and other industry groups, like AUVSI, at the table, some sanity will find its way into the process. Coming out with rules under which to safely operate things like FPV and autopilots is one way for them to demonstrate how these things can be done safely. Will this approach work? Maybe, maybe not, but for sure we'd be screwed if the FAA was left to their own devices - especially if the only people giving them advice was AOPA and ALPA - who would like nothing more than anything but full-scale aircraft to be totally illegal.

We *need* the AMA to represent our interests, and the JPO is actively working to make sure that the jet modeling community has a voice in the AMA. Dave and Bob know we are out here and what we do (they saw it first-hand at FIF in May) and they have us included in the "no modeler left behind" group. Hopefully, their constructive engagement policy will pay off. Personally, although I'm not totally 100% sure we'll be fine, I do think that this policy is going to get us a better result than just screwing our heads in the sand and hoping that this "drone" fad will go away (it won't).

Bob
Old 10-28-2015, 01:04 PM
  #423  
rcjetsaok
My Feedback: (7)
 
rcjetsaok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,583
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Default

I think the Fed has bigger fish to fry... They got Idiot's with green lasers blowing out airline pilot's eyes, passengers beating the hell out of each other on flights, airline pilot's dying in the cockpit, and today's latest, a freaking $1.2B military blimp running amok dragging a mile long 1" cable across the ground ripping out guard-rails and power lines blacking out power across two states and haven't figured out if they need to shoot it down... We all know just like driving on any highway we all travel on with dangerous curves and intersections, so many people have to die before on that road before fixing the problem is addressed correctly. This problem is no different. There will have to be a catastrophic accident involving a "Drone" and a air carrier with paying passengers before they do what needs to be done. I don't know the answer myself, but as like everything else going on around us, the biggest pile of money will win.


D.

Last edited by rcjetsaok; 10-28-2015 at 01:07 PM.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.