BVM Plug and Play F16
11-05-2016, 09:47 PM
#278
My Feedback: (13)
Craig,
But I'm saving for a belt clip for my cell phone and some Birkenstocks to wear with socks!
My intent is to buy another 210 for the Phantom. I just wanted to be able to swap motors if I had to instead of having two different motors
The KT has performed flawlessly though I did go to the full-expo mode today and found I preferred that to the half expo I ran early in the week. Basically I was finding that the throttle was 2-3 clicks off idle in the pattern and I hated feeling like I had the throttle buried with a high drag config. This mode (internal to the KT) lets me have the throttle further off the stop but still be producing the same thrust on the low end. Yes I know the motor is at the same rpm and the only difference is the throttle stick position and that its all mental, but Dumbo needed a feather to fly!
I am finding the further I push the CG back the happier the plane is.
Additionally I found with flaps deployed the roll got sloppy and took almost 50% stick deflection to get it to turn. I mixed in elevons with flap today and was pleased with the result. The plane retained a nice turn capability even slow with flaperon hanging. I highly recommend that. I used 20%
Again, this is all technique. I'm just sharing in case it helps someone
Dave
But I'm saving for a belt clip for my cell phone and some Birkenstocks to wear with socks!
My intent is to buy another 210 for the Phantom. I just wanted to be able to swap motors if I had to instead of having two different motors
The KT has performed flawlessly though I did go to the full-expo mode today and found I preferred that to the half expo I ran early in the week. Basically I was finding that the throttle was 2-3 clicks off idle in the pattern and I hated feeling like I had the throttle buried with a high drag config. This mode (internal to the KT) lets me have the throttle further off the stop but still be producing the same thrust on the low end. Yes I know the motor is at the same rpm and the only difference is the throttle stick position and that its all mental, but Dumbo needed a feather to fly!
I am finding the further I push the CG back the happier the plane is.
Additionally I found with flaps deployed the roll got sloppy and took almost 50% stick deflection to get it to turn. I mixed in elevons with flap today and was pleased with the result. The plane retained a nice turn capability even slow with flaperon hanging. I highly recommend that. I used 20%
Again, this is all technique. I'm just sharing in case it helps someone
Dave
11-06-2016, 08:54 AM
#280
Craig,
But I'm saving for a belt clip for my cell phone and some Birkenstocks to wear with socks!
My intent is to buy another 210 for the Phantom. I just wanted to be able to swap motors if I had to instead of having two different motors
The KT has performed flawlessly though I did go to the full-expo mode today and found I preferred that to the half expo I ran early in the week. Basically I was finding that the throttle was 2-3 clicks off idle in the pattern and I hated feeling like I had the throttle buried with a high drag config. This mode (internal to the KT) lets me have the throttle further off the stop but still be producing the same thrust on the low end. Yes I know the motor is at the same rpm and the only difference is the throttle stick position and that its all mental, but Dumbo needed a feather to fly!
I am finding the further I push the CG back the happier the plane is.
Additionally I found with flaps deployed the roll got sloppy and took almost 50% stick deflection to get it to turn. I mixed in elevons with flap today and was pleased with the result. The plane retained a nice turn capability even slow with flaperon hanging. I highly recommend that. I used 20%
Again, this is all technique. I'm just sharing in case it helps someone
Dave
But I'm saving for a belt clip for my cell phone and some Birkenstocks to wear with socks!
My intent is to buy another 210 for the Phantom. I just wanted to be able to swap motors if I had to instead of having two different motors
The KT has performed flawlessly though I did go to the full-expo mode today and found I preferred that to the half expo I ran early in the week. Basically I was finding that the throttle was 2-3 clicks off idle in the pattern and I hated feeling like I had the throttle buried with a high drag config. This mode (internal to the KT) lets me have the throttle further off the stop but still be producing the same thrust on the low end. Yes I know the motor is at the same rpm and the only difference is the throttle stick position and that its all mental, but Dumbo needed a feather to fly!
I am finding the further I push the CG back the happier the plane is.
Additionally I found with flaps deployed the roll got sloppy and took almost 50% stick deflection to get it to turn. I mixed in elevons with flap today and was pleased with the result. The plane retained a nice turn capability even slow with flaperon hanging. I highly recommend that. I used 20%
Again, this is all technique. I'm just sharing in case it helps someone
Dave
Interesting what you are finding out. As you say, it must be about preference. I went the other way. Fount it too tail heavy with the recommended CG. Floated too much on landing and was hunting on Pitch.
Maybe the big difference is that I don't use the forward tanks (fuel or smoke), which create a big variation on CG during the flight.
Also, no flaps for me. Much more predictable landings. It will slow down just by AOA. But the flaps made it super floaty and I do not like that at all. I'm used to heavy metal, so like planes that sink predictably.
But all in all, what a sweet airplane
And Gundradd, the High Alpha is just insane!!!! Only matched by the BVM Twin Rafale!!!!
11-06-2016, 10:37 AM
#281
My Feedback: (13)
Jack,
I found it to be semi-unperdictable in pitch until the CG got back a bit and now it feels better. It is now more predictable in pitch and sinks much better and at a lower airspeed as well. I felt like I was hunting in pitch previously and had to dump the nose to get it to come down which immediately picked up 15 mph which I had to scrub somewhere else. Now it settles in at about 58mph and just drives down final...not quite heavy-metal but much better behaved IMO.
I do miss the feel of my BV Phantom though. I always said you could put a drop of glue on the elevator stick once established on final and just use power all the way in. The FS F-16 is a lot more floaty in the pattern than a FS Phantom as well. In fact, depending on weight, you touch around 140 and the thing keeps flying all the way down to 90 or so, so there's a fight in a x-wind for those 50 knots!
All that said for those reading, Jack is "The Man" and has more time in the last year than I've got total, so move your CG with all of this in mind. To see him land his F model Hun is akin to poetry in motion...truly amazing.
As I have it now I think 400' would be more than comfortable if you nailed the landing...I think mine rolls 200' with medium braking...pretty spectacular.
Yes, it's an expensive plane guys (thank you USAA insurance!), but it really is a low stress machine that seems to be very reliable despite its complexity.
Dave
I found it to be semi-unperdictable in pitch until the CG got back a bit and now it feels better. It is now more predictable in pitch and sinks much better and at a lower airspeed as well. I felt like I was hunting in pitch previously and had to dump the nose to get it to come down which immediately picked up 15 mph which I had to scrub somewhere else. Now it settles in at about 58mph and just drives down final...not quite heavy-metal but much better behaved IMO.
I do miss the feel of my BV Phantom though. I always said you could put a drop of glue on the elevator stick once established on final and just use power all the way in. The FS F-16 is a lot more floaty in the pattern than a FS Phantom as well. In fact, depending on weight, you touch around 140 and the thing keeps flying all the way down to 90 or so, so there's a fight in a x-wind for those 50 knots!
All that said for those reading, Jack is "The Man" and has more time in the last year than I've got total, so move your CG with all of this in mind. To see him land his F model Hun is akin to poetry in motion...truly amazing.
As I have it now I think 400' would be more than comfortable if you nailed the landing...I think mine rolls 200' with medium braking...pretty spectacular.
Yes, it's an expensive plane guys (thank you USAA insurance!), but it really is a low stress machine that seems to be very reliable despite its complexity.
Dave
Last edited by ozief16; 11-06-2016 at 10:44 AM. Reason: better speaking mostly goodly
11-06-2016, 10:56 AM
#282
My Feedback: (13)
There was a gentleman named Warren out there yesterday that was kind enough to snap a couple photos and share them with me.
Check out the landing photo, on the centerline (phew!)
I have already started weathering the plane and will repaint a few spots to match my plane (changing the tail number and from an Eileson jet to Nellis)
Dave
11-07-2016, 08:37 AM
#285
Jack,
I found it to be semi-unperdictable in pitch until the CG got back a bit and now it feels better. It is now more predictable in pitch and sinks much better and at a lower airspeed as well. I felt like I was hunting in pitch previously and had to dump the nose to get it to come down which immediately picked up 15 mph which I had to scrub somewhere else. Now it settles in at about 58mph and just drives down final...not quite heavy-metal but much better behaved IMO.
I do miss the feel of my BV Phantom though. I always said you could put a drop of glue on the elevator stick once established on final and just use power all the way in. The FS F-16 is a lot more floaty in the pattern than a FS Phantom as well. In fact, depending on weight, you touch around 140 and the thing keeps flying all the way down to 90 or so, so there's a fight in a x-wind for those 50 knots!
All that said for those reading, Jack is "The Man" and has more time in the last year than I've got total, so move your CG with all of this in mind. To see him land his F model Hun is akin to poetry in motion...truly amazing.
As I have it now I think 400' would be more than comfortable if you nailed the landing...I think mine rolls 200' with medium braking...pretty spectacular.
Yes, it's an expensive plane guys (thank you USAA insurance!), but it really is a low stress machine that seems to be very reliable despite its complexity.
Dave
I found it to be semi-unperdictable in pitch until the CG got back a bit and now it feels better. It is now more predictable in pitch and sinks much better and at a lower airspeed as well. I felt like I was hunting in pitch previously and had to dump the nose to get it to come down which immediately picked up 15 mph which I had to scrub somewhere else. Now it settles in at about 58mph and just drives down final...not quite heavy-metal but much better behaved IMO.
I do miss the feel of my BV Phantom though. I always said you could put a drop of glue on the elevator stick once established on final and just use power all the way in. The FS F-16 is a lot more floaty in the pattern than a FS Phantom as well. In fact, depending on weight, you touch around 140 and the thing keeps flying all the way down to 90 or so, so there's a fight in a x-wind for those 50 knots!
All that said for those reading, Jack is "The Man" and has more time in the last year than I've got total, so move your CG with all of this in mind. To see him land his F model Hun is akin to poetry in motion...truly amazing.
As I have it now I think 400' would be more than comfortable if you nailed the landing...I think mine rolls 200' with medium braking...pretty spectacular.
Yes, it's an expensive plane guys (thank you USAA insurance!), but it really is a low stress machine that seems to be very reliable despite its complexity.
Dave
But, the important thing is that you are enjoying it!!! me too!... and now you got me curious about trying my Rhino 200 in it haha
DId you convert the fuel system to Hi-flo? or are you going with the stock fuel system? what UAT are you using?
Thanks
Jack
11-07-2016, 11:22 AM
#286
My Feedback: (13)
Good hypothesis Jack...except I empty that tank first into the mains and then to the motor from there so my landing CG is always the same.
The big motor really just loafs around in normal cruise and isn't working hardly at all. When you punch it however, it is THERE!
I redid the whole fuel system. I went 6mm lines everywhere, large bore clunk lines with brass tubing in the middle, heavy clunks, and drilled out the vent nipples on the tanks. I am using a UAT that looks like a BV but is high flow from DW.
Dave
The big motor really just loafs around in normal cruise and isn't working hardly at all. When you punch it however, it is THERE!
I redid the whole fuel system. I went 6mm lines everywhere, large bore clunk lines with brass tubing in the middle, heavy clunks, and drilled out the vent nipples on the tanks. I am using a UAT that looks like a BV but is high flow from DW.
Dave
Last edited by ozief16; 11-07-2016 at 06:52 PM.
11-07-2016, 06:42 PM
#288
My Feedback: (13)
Craig,
I ordered mine in July so not sure to answer your question. I've talked to a few guys that are running big block motors as the fuel system is.
To me I just wanted the peace of mind of going to 6mm throughout. The 6mm has a larger ID than stock line. I'll take a pic tonight for you. Like I said, lots of guys flying it with zero prob, but I swapped it as long as I had the system all torn up to convert one of the smoke tanks to fuel. Personal preference
The pic is crude at best but it shows the stock brass on the left and what I went to on the right as well as stock fuel line on the left and 6mm on the right. Again, 99% of guys have no probs with the fuel system so I don't want to start a hysteria
Dave
I ordered mine in July so not sure to answer your question. I've talked to a few guys that are running big block motors as the fuel system is.
To me I just wanted the peace of mind of going to 6mm throughout. The 6mm has a larger ID than stock line. I'll take a pic tonight for you. Like I said, lots of guys flying it with zero prob, but I swapped it as long as I had the system all torn up to convert one of the smoke tanks to fuel. Personal preference
The pic is crude at best but it shows the stock brass on the left and what I went to on the right as well as stock fuel line on the left and 6mm on the right. Again, 99% of guys have no probs with the fuel system so I don't want to start a hysteria
Dave
Last edited by ozief16; 11-07-2016 at 06:51 PM. Reason: pics
11-08-2016, 10:48 AM
#292
My Feedback: (13)
Guys,
Now you have me wondering. I'm liking how he plane is flying much better after moving the CG aft...but from what? Mine had big CG marks on the wing root that someone put on with sharpie marker that I am using as my zero datum; so there is a potential for human error with the marking. I will throw it on xicoy when time allows to see where CG is relativ to main gear
if you guys do the old 45 Deg nose high and roll it on its back what do you see? Even now mine will arc gently back towards the horizon (i.e. Still slightly nose heavy)
Dave
Now you have me wondering. I'm liking how he plane is flying much better after moving the CG aft...but from what? Mine had big CG marks on the wing root that someone put on with sharpie marker that I am using as my zero datum; so there is a potential for human error with the marking. I will throw it on xicoy when time allows to see where CG is relativ to main gear
if you guys do the old 45 Deg nose high and roll it on its back what do you see? Even now mine will arc gently back towards the horizon (i.e. Still slightly nose heavy)
Dave
11-09-2016, 11:39 AM
#293
Guys,
Now you have me wondering. I'm liking how he plane is flying much better after moving the CG aft...but from what? Mine had big CG marks on the wing root that someone put on with sharpie marker that I am using as my zero datum; so there is a potential for human error with the marking. I will throw it on xicoy when time allows to see where CG is relativ to main gear
if you guys do the old 45 Deg nose high and roll it on its back what do you see? Even now mine will arc gently back towards the horizon (i.e. Still slightly nose heavy)
Dave
Now you have me wondering. I'm liking how he plane is flying much better after moving the CG aft...but from what? Mine had big CG marks on the wing root that someone put on with sharpie marker that I am using as my zero datum; so there is a potential for human error with the marking. I will throw it on xicoy when time allows to see where CG is relativ to main gear
if you guys do the old 45 Deg nose high and roll it on its back what do you see? Even now mine will arc gently back towards the horizon (i.e. Still slightly nose heavy)
Dave
I measured mine last weekend with everything on, including batteries, gear down, UAT full, but no wings. My fuselage balanced right where there is a double panel line closer to the leading edge. (it is pretty obvious when you look at ti). That is probably about 2" or so in front of the mark that comes from the factory (again, wings are not on, it will move back once wings are installed, but since wings should weight approximately the same, just the fuse is a good reference for comparison).
11-10-2016, 12:52 PM
#294
My Feedback: (13)
Jack,
i see the line youre you're talking about. It tough to accurately know where I am due to fat fingers but I am well aft of where you are. I find the plane to be very solid back there and will provide accurate numbers once I have it all sorted. Different strokes I guess. Like I said if I jack the nose 45 high with a good turn of speed and roll it inverted and release the sticks, the plane arcs back down indicating it's still slightly nose heavy. I think that's an old pattern flier trick
Dave
i see the line youre you're talking about. It tough to accurately know where I am due to fat fingers but I am well aft of where you are. I find the plane to be very solid back there and will provide accurate numbers once I have it all sorted. Different strokes I guess. Like I said if I jack the nose 45 high with a good turn of speed and roll it inverted and release the sticks, the plane arcs back down indicating it's still slightly nose heavy. I think that's an old pattern flier trick
Dave
11-10-2016, 01:04 PM
#295
Jack,
i see the line youre you're talking about. It tough to accurately know where I am due to fat fingers but I am well aft of where you are. I find the plane to be very solid back there and will provide accurate numbers once I have it all sorted. Different strokes I guess. Like I said if I jack the nose 45 high with a good turn of speed and roll it inverted and release the sticks, the plane arcs back down indicating it's still slightly nose heavy. I think that's an old pattern flier trick
Dave
i see the line youre you're talking about. It tough to accurately know where I am due to fat fingers but I am well aft of where you are. I find the plane to be very solid back there and will provide accurate numbers once I have it all sorted. Different strokes I guess. Like I said if I jack the nose 45 high with a good turn of speed and roll it inverted and release the sticks, the plane arcs back down indicating it's still slightly nose heavy. I think that's an old pattern flier trick
Dave
The interesting finding is that the plane is very forgiving on CG
Mine does the slight arc too, but I do have a Gyro, which in some way limits the arc
My next experiment is trying a 200 after hearing about yours!! mine with tha Cheetah 160 is just awesome, but just for fun, I'll try the 200 and see how it comes out of High Alpha (not needed for anything else, I fly the 160 at 3/4 max most of the time)
Thanks for sharing all this info!! finally something useful in RCU haha
Jack
03-14-2017, 06:41 PM
#300
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2003
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DX18 using the Cortex
I have a Cortex in mine.
I have not flown the SM but the BVM is easy to land and all around easy flier. The light wing loading makes it a great flyer all around.
Honestly, I don't see a lot of 1/6 SM's here in the SC/NC/GA area so I don't have a good baseline. On the 1/5, the weight difference between the two is very dramatic.
JS
I have not flown the SM but the BVM is easy to land and all around easy flier. The light wing loading makes it a great flyer all around.
Honestly, I don't see a lot of 1/6 SM's here in the SC/NC/GA area so I don't have a good baseline. On the 1/5, the weight difference between the two is very dramatic.
JS