Vettster

K thanks for the tip on the glow wires John. I just put Felix's settings back in and the rpm problem has misteriously gone away... BUT now its from the frying pan into the fire. Check out the next video. The starter spins up but does not engage for a while. This is a new problem and it doesnt sound like its spinning up to 28000 at all..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzTH...ature=youtu.be

sidgates

My Feedback: (2)

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The bendix may be hanging up, accounting for the delay in spinning. If the FADEC battery is good and charged the starter motor my have a problem.

Vettster

Thanks Sid but its not hanging up(rubbing) It spins very freely by hand.

sidgates

My Feedback: (2)

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I looked at your video again I think I see the bendix(brass with "O" ring) delaying to extend and engaging the compressor nut. That is what Imeant about hanging.

Vettster

Ohh... in that case YES it is absolutely hanging up....But Why? Was working before... but now its using lower power settings... So what to increase?

sidgates

My Feedback: (2)

My experience is working on my RAM 500 bendix. I don't think it took much voltage to extend the bendix but my memory may be in error, it has been awhile.

Felix Barrao

It seems you have a rubbing in the bendix. Disamble the motor, and check the bendix. There is a small magnet glued in the motor to hold the bendix in the retracted position. probaby it has lost. ( you can throw away if you want) The bendix should actute with fa fewer rpm than the video.

About the gas, verify the glowplug, and be sure that the coils are well exposed out of the glowplug. Try to play a little with the gas to try to ignite, in the " pulse" cycle ( sometimes is easier to ignite with a little gas, and when the motor is spining down)

Félix

CRX Turbines

You are better to either keep with the JC or switch over to xicoy. the two systems are not compatible. I am not sure if this motor has optical RPM sensor but some do. Either way Xicoy provides a magnetic ring if you buy from gaspar. the T couple is totally different too. Switching is easy. If you want to PM me I will help you through this. the starter is no issue but the circuits are much different and you will not have the onboard electronics under the cowl with Xicoy.

Andy

CRX Turbines

PM sent...

Felix Barrao

Jet cat P-60 has a magnetic sensor, (not optical sensor). This magnet works perfect with Xicoy hall sensor, no needed to change the magnet.

Félix

Vettster

Thanks for you input Andy...But the engine has ran several times with the xicoy ecu and xicoy hall sensor.

While the engine was running I did not like the response I was getting so I changed to Felix's settings. Im 100% sure his settings do work... but All of a sudden I ran into an incorrect RPM reading and then a Bendix problem. The only thing that changed before that was that I had installed the motor in the plane and shortened the wires. As most have agreed... the Glow wires need to be twisted to stop giving off bad signals and the start wires should be re-routed out the front of the motor cap. While Im making these changes today, I will have a look at the bendix magnet.

Some interesting reading here from Jason Burg of JC. I copied this from a thread discussing how to change the starter O ring.

The reason i say not to remove the starter is because the alignment of the starter to the compressor nut is critical. Any change in this alignment may casue problems with the bendix engagement / disengagement. If the starter bendix does not disengage at the proper time (about 33,000 RPM), the starter becomes a generator and sends a very unwanted current to the ECU power board. (as most of you know, the only difference between a starter motor and a generator is the direction of current supply) So if any of you want to change a starter O-ring, and are NOT SURE what procedure to follow, call JetCat and i will talk you through it.

Jason Burg / JetCat USA / Technician

Vettster

Thanks afioretti(Andy) for your help. Andy suggested to install a reverse bias diode. Part # 1N4001 to the starter poles. I did this and the starter is once again working as it should.

Sorry Felix... but I tried your START settings once more, but they are just not working for me.. So I went back to my settings and the engine fired right up with no issue what so ever. There is no more false RPM readings now that I twisted the glow wires. cheers John.

So! Im about 95% pleased right now. Need to work on the last 5%. The engine starts with ease now. I am using Felix's RUN parameters and they are better than it was before. The engine is more responsive and I gently took it up to full throttle and let it sit there for a few seconds. Then smoothly down to idle. I did this twice. BUT! When I lowered the stick from full throttle to Idle more quickly but not slamming it down.... the engine still takes a long time to reduce the rpm's. They come down very slowly. Takes about 30 seconds to return to idle. Would like this to be much more responsive.

Felix? A little help here please What settings should I try in the RAMP settings. Hope your not mad because I cant use your START settings lol

Vettster

Just got off the phone with Andy. Wow! What a great conversation. Im learning SO MUCH!

I appreciate all the help from everyone on here. There are many people contributing to this thread that have an incredible amount of knowledge with Turbine engines.

This truly is when RCU is operating at its best.

Thanks ALL

sidgates

My Feedback: (2)

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Vetster,
My turbine repair training was reading the WREN 54 engine kit manual. It has heplful ideas about balancing and checking the injector needles for even flow. Using this training I have completely disassemble my RAM 500 and cleaned the needles and checked to balance. After a slight adjustment on the balance the engine ran smoother than when new. I also cleaned the injectors in my son's engine.

I also machined a new starter motor housing for the stronger motor, the original was undersized. During this time I also completely diassembled the bendix and repaired burrs on the bendix mechanics. The RAM bendix has to be very smooth to operate properly. By the way it has a spring for disengaging when starter voltage is removed.

Jgwright

The RUN parameters for acceleration and deceleration govern the speed of ramp up and down. There is no science to this, you reduce the values to speed things up and increase to slow down. Some engines like my little Sprite will run with values at or close to 0. Others like old KJ66 type engines need quite a bit of delay to avoid the engine flaming out on either acceleration of deceleration. You can do all this on the test bench. Best to set the number 2 or 3 points higher than the one that causes it to flame out.

John

CRX Turbines

I spoke to Vetster twice at length about the ECU settings. He is/was running the parameters below in black (from post 65). I had him make a couple of adjustments to try out. With decel delay of 9, I think his issue could be pump related. He is using a kingtech pump which should work but he does have one for a jetcat that I told him he might try in order to see if it clears up the laggy response back to idle. It sounds like it gets there but takes a while. He said he tried the JC pump initially but his motor was getting soaked. With pump start and ramp values where they are in black (3 and 8), he can lower these to 2 and 2 or lower in order to stop the fiery starts with the JC pump and adjust a notch at a time until he tunes the motor to where he likes it . Big thing here is not to change too many parameters at once and always make a note of changes so he can easily go back to what he had prior.

Andy

START Menu

Max RPM 165,000 165.000
Min 50,00 55.000
Pump start auto-3 auto+0
Start Ramp 8 7
plug v 2.4 ok if gas ignite.
gas 100% 100%
Low voltage cut off 6.v 6V
Start power at ignition 68 35
Ignition max rpm 6000 5000
min.....................6000 2000
preheat 2 seconds 2
gas off 45,000 (I dont use a gas solenoid. I feed direct from bottle) 40.000
starter at fuel ramp 96 35
RPM 100% starter power.. 22,000 rpm 28.000
RPM OFF Starter 27,000 35.000
reconnect 25,000 30.000

RUN Menu

Max temp 800c 800
Start min temp 100c 100
Stop Speed rpm 40,000 38.000 ( but 40.00 is ok)
pump limit 812 ( I prefer 1020 and don´t use it, but 812 is ok)
accel delay 009 I had to raise it to 30, and acceleration was very fast
decel delay 010 35, you will have to play with accel and decel delays when you test it
stability delay 096 60

Felix Barrao

No, of course not. I don´t understand why they don´t work, but.. They work great with the two jetcat that I modified, ( with original pump and starter) Wich problem do you have with my settings?

About the deceleration issue, John has explained it very well.

Félix

Vettster

The starter stayed ingaged as the engine was trying to ramp.

But it does not matter anymore... CAUSE I GOT IT!!! Fires up smoothly with no issues( I did go back to David Gladwin's settings with some mods) These settings for what ever reason worked before so I used them.

Anyhow... the engine starts very easy now and once running the Acceleration is just right...but more importantly the Deceleration is now much quicker but no where near stalling the engine. I think I will reduce it even more. The first fast deceleration did drop the rpms below the min rpm of 50,000 to about 41,000 but after that it would just slightly drop below 50,000 and then stabilize.

Max RPM 165,000
Min 50,00
Pump start auto-3
Start Ramp 7
plug v 2.2
gas 100%
Low voltage cut off 6.v
Start power at ignition 68
Ignition max rpm 6000
min.....................6000
preheat 2 seconds
gas off 45,000 (I dont use a gas solenoid. I feed direct from bottle)
starter at fuel ramp 96
RPM 100% starter power.. 22,000 rpm
RPM OFF Starter 27,000
reconnect 25,000

RUN Menu

Max temp 800c
Start min temp 100c
Stop Speed rpm 40,000
pump limit 812
accel delay 025
decel delay 025 Im going to drop this to 23 I think, but its pretty good now
stability delay 050

Parameter 026 Value 018
Parameter 027 Value 028
Parameter 028 Value 002
Parameter 029 Value 002
Parameter 030 Value 000

Andy I tried auto 2 and ramp 2 and kept increasing..but didnt feel I was getting anywhere fast. Also change min V to 7.4v but would get Battery error.

In any case.. It starts and runs smoothly now and Im very pleased with it and now feel confident to fly it as is.

I know Ive said it before several times... But THANKS SO VERY MUCH EVERYONE for your help.

Im not into electronics or even computers... Im a welder. But due to everyone's help I was able to do this and learn so much! For anyone above this would have taken about 10min to do. But for the average guy like me... This info is now at the first post for easy reference and it should only take you about 1hr to switch from your stock ecu to the Xicoy unit.

Cheers guys! I will follow up with and inflight video

Trevor

CRX Turbines

Trevor,

No you dont want 7.4 battery voltage for minimum.. I think that you misunderstood me. Leave it where it is at 6 - 6.5 that is pretty standard.

Glad this is working.. have fun flying ..

Andy

Vettster

Hey guys! Just wanted to report back that the engine has flown!! Couldnt get around to it for a while cause my new job has me very busy and then the weather was bad on the weekends. But today she flew without a hitch.

Thanks for all the help guys

CRX Turbines

Great you got it going and sounds like it is running well. Good feeling when your work pays off.

Andy

Vettster

Hey Guys.. Im back. Just wanted to report that the engine is doing fine after 5 flights in the fall and about 15 starts in total.

box55555

what parameter number did you use to raise the Fadec max rpm to 165000?

Vettster

Not sure what you mean? You just go to the "start" menu and raise or lower the max RPM. Its the first in the menu.

Ray Millington

Hi All,
Just found this thread and have found it very interesting,
I hope to fit a Xicoy Autostart 10 to my P80 se
Has anyone done this conversion yet ?,
Any info would be much appreciated,
The p80se has optical sensors to give the rpm ,how would a magnetic sensor replace them?
Does anyone have the engine parameters,my Jetcat ecu has failed so i cannot get the engine parameters?
Regards Ray.