Big FEJ Hawk Down - wing collapse Reported
08-25-2014, 07:50 AM
#51
Hah,,
not on this subject, you get the same regulars,shooting out the same info and opinions,
Its great, I did read and learn,, I do own one of the older FEJ f-16s no honeycomb junk in it, good solid ply, the plane is strong, and it flies and looks great, but the price to pay for the build quality comes in at the scales, my plane is fairly heavy when compared to the new honeycomb designs. I did a lot of reading before purchasing mine from another member, Making sure it was not honeycomb build. I got it and Iove the Jet, but I was warned about the Gear from multiple people, and it was true, I have had my issues with the gear, I spend another 700 and had them converted at down and locked and that took care of the gear problem (I did have two of their actuators fail, but they stepped up took all three and updated them to the new strong transmission system). So when I look at my jet, it looks great, everyone likes it, takes off straight flies straight, and lands OK, I still need some fine tuning, but all in all it has been a proven jet, the previous owner had multiple flights on it, I have now had 9 flights on it. I can trust my jet, to stay together, if I can keep the landings well. I am also in this jet for almost 6k I bought all high end components, Tams Pipe, Good Batts, Jetcat p120sx, the only real problem with mine is its heavier than any other 1/8 f-16 out there. SO WHEN I READ THESE COMMENTS SAYING AMA/CD's should ban all FEJ planes, I say that's BS, not all, there are still plenty of older fej airplanes still flying, NOW PERSONALLY, from what I have read on this forum,, Would I buy a new FEJ,,,, Honesty,, NO, I have no confidence in their current building techniques with this honeycomb being used as support,Im no engineer, but I do know you want something solid there to hold. I am also not happy with the customer support, they have burned many,,, BUT also I can see it like this, did they build the plane, yes, are they responsible for the plane, (lawyers would love to get some of this question) Is the customer the one in the end holding all the responsibility, YES, you take that risk anytime you purchase something in this hobby. You try to learn from others experience, and advice, and use that to make a sane judgment. SO when it comes to this subject, instead of getting angry at people who bought what they thought was a good jet, OR EVEN some who were told they would build it their way,, that anger should be turned to the manufacturer, and eventually you will get 1 of two results, they will step up and try to take care of what the problems are and peoples losses, (I don't see them doing that, I see that putting them in bankruptcy) Or they ignore all the bad pressure, and continue on going the way they have been just ignoring it all, and I see that putting them in Bankruptcy too. What I would do is completely shut down, sell off all the parts, then work with the manufacturer, have the flaws on airframes fixed, then start up a new company with a new beginning, and try to keep its customers secure with their product. I know this strategy works I have seen it done multiple times at Chinese buffets in town.......this is just my two cents on the matter,
not on this subject, you get the same regulars,shooting out the same info and opinions,
Its great, I did read and learn,, I do own one of the older FEJ f-16s no honeycomb junk in it, good solid ply, the plane is strong, and it flies and looks great, but the price to pay for the build quality comes in at the scales, my plane is fairly heavy when compared to the new honeycomb designs. I did a lot of reading before purchasing mine from another member, Making sure it was not honeycomb build. I got it and Iove the Jet, but I was warned about the Gear from multiple people, and it was true, I have had my issues with the gear, I spend another 700 and had them converted at down and locked and that took care of the gear problem (I did have two of their actuators fail, but they stepped up took all three and updated them to the new strong transmission system). So when I look at my jet, it looks great, everyone likes it, takes off straight flies straight, and lands OK, I still need some fine tuning, but all in all it has been a proven jet, the previous owner had multiple flights on it, I have now had 9 flights on it. I can trust my jet, to stay together, if I can keep the landings well. I am also in this jet for almost 6k I bought all high end components, Tams Pipe, Good Batts, Jetcat p120sx, the only real problem with mine is its heavier than any other 1/8 f-16 out there. SO WHEN I READ THESE COMMENTS SAYING AMA/CD's should ban all FEJ planes, I say that's BS, not all, there are still plenty of older fej airplanes still flying, NOW PERSONALLY, from what I have read on this forum,, Would I buy a new FEJ,,,, Honesty,, NO, I have no confidence in their current building techniques with this honeycomb being used as support,Im no engineer, but I do know you want something solid there to hold. I am also not happy with the customer support, they have burned many,,, BUT also I can see it like this, did they build the plane, yes, are they responsible for the plane, (lawyers would love to get some of this question) Is the customer the one in the end holding all the responsibility, YES, you take that risk anytime you purchase something in this hobby. You try to learn from others experience, and advice, and use that to make a sane judgment. SO when it comes to this subject, instead of getting angry at people who bought what they thought was a good jet, OR EVEN some who were told they would build it their way,, that anger should be turned to the manufacturer, and eventually you will get 1 of two results, they will step up and try to take care of what the problems are and peoples losses, (I don't see them doing that, I see that putting them in bankruptcy) Or they ignore all the bad pressure, and continue on going the way they have been just ignoring it all, and I see that putting them in Bankruptcy too. What I would do is completely shut down, sell off all the parts, then work with the manufacturer, have the flaws on airframes fixed, then start up a new company with a new beginning, and try to keep its customers secure with their product. I know this strategy works I have seen it done multiple times at Chinese buffets in town.......this is just my two cents on the matter,
Here are what the internals of your "old", "better more" FEJ F-16. And that is ME taking the x-rays. And ME cutting into the airframe, exposing the lack of glue on the elevator AND vertical stab.
So please take your 212 posts of FEJ misleading junk out of here before people start dying from these flying time bombs!
08-25-2014, 07:58 AM
#52
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08-25-2014, 08:11 AM
#54
This is a bit harsh. Lewis is a great pilot he just chose a bad company to get behind. Lewis has done so much for the jet community to gang up on him like this is wrong. Make sure you direct everything to FEJ not Lewis. Pretty sure he has learned his lesson now with FEJ.
08-25-2014, 08:28 AM
#55
This is a bit harsh. Lewis is a great pilot he just chose a bad company to get behind. Lewis has done so much for the jet community to gang up on him like this is wrong. Make sure you direct everything to FEJ not Lewis. Pretty sure he has learned his lesson now with FEJ.
08-25-2014, 08:29 AM
#56
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08-25-2014, 10:09 AM
#58
Im thinking that any manufacturer of high end planes should volunteer photos of the building/construction techniques in an effort to prove their designs are airworthy.
Following that maybe even serialized photos of each model accompany the kit/arf to the customer so they dont have to x-ray or cut into a new part to inspect them.
Ive had a wing and stab x-rayed before and its pretty revealing but not foolproof.
Any company willing to go to this "extreme" to prove their worth would be way ahead of the competition and it would do the community a great service.
I know SM/Anton took my advice on the F-14 project and as a result you see all the videos he posted of their test flights. That project has been pretty successful in proving its air worthiness and I have seen many replies to Anton thanking him for being so forthcoming with real tests and results. Thats the way it should be AND it could be better still.
Following that maybe even serialized photos of each model accompany the kit/arf to the customer so they dont have to x-ray or cut into a new part to inspect them.
Ive had a wing and stab x-rayed before and its pretty revealing but not foolproof.
Any company willing to go to this "extreme" to prove their worth would be way ahead of the competition and it would do the community a great service.
I know SM/Anton took my advice on the F-14 project and as a result you see all the videos he posted of their test flights. That project has been pretty successful in proving its air worthiness and I have seen many replies to Anton thanking him for being so forthcoming with real tests and results. Thats the way it should be AND it could be better still.
08-25-2014, 10:23 AM
#59
Im thinking that any manufacturer of high end planes should volunteer photos of the building/construction techniques in an effort to prove their designs are airworthy.
Following that maybe even serialized photos of each model accompany the kit/arf to the customer so they dont have to x-ray or cut into a new part to inspect them.
Ive had a wing and stab x-rayed before and its pretty revealing but not foolproof.
Any company willing to go to this "extreme" to prove their worth would be way ahead of the competition and it would do the community a great service.
I know SM/Anton took my advice on the F-14 project and as a result you see all the videos he posted of their test flights. That project has been pretty successful in proving its air worthiness and I have seen many replies to Anton thanking him for being so forthcoming with real tests and results. Thats the way it should be AND it could be better still.
Following that maybe even serialized photos of each model accompany the kit/arf to the customer so they dont have to x-ray or cut into a new part to inspect them.
Ive had a wing and stab x-rayed before and its pretty revealing but not foolproof.
Any company willing to go to this "extreme" to prove their worth would be way ahead of the competition and it would do the community a great service.
I know SM/Anton took my advice on the F-14 project and as a result you see all the videos he posted of their test flights. That project has been pretty successful in proving its air worthiness and I have seen many replies to Anton thanking him for being so forthcoming with real tests and results. Thats the way it should be AND it could be better still.
08-25-2014, 10:30 AM
#60
Thread Starter
Fantastic! That is a good start. Now we need others to follow. Of course it didn't help FEJ's cause when they claimed that someone sabatoged their jets that they tried to fly without adding oil to the kero a few years back at Fl. Jets.
08-25-2014, 12:52 PM
#62
This is a bit harsh. Lewis is a great pilot he just chose a bad company to get behind. Lewis has done so much for the jet community to gang up on him like this is wrong. Make sure you direct everything to FEJ not Lewis. Pretty sure he has learned his lesson now with FEJ.
08-25-2014, 04:00 PM
#65
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I've know Lewis for almost 30 years. In that time, I have never seen him over-stress an airframe. Be it a trainer, sport, pattern, ducted fan or a turbine powered jet. He flies smooth & precise. He's been actively involved in this hobby for over 30 years. He's also one of the first to go turbine. He's been flying turbines for a very long time. I have a lot of respect for the man.
08-25-2014, 06:29 PM
#66
Hi,
Let's face it-- the real power/impetus/responsibility lies with the CD of the event. He would be inviting quite a ***** storm if he were to announce that a specific brand of ARF's weren't welcome at his event, so he so far won't do it. Until one of the CD's takes this step, it's all just a bunch of whoof-whoof. I think that when someone does finally take that stand, the rest will follow suit.
Let's face it-- the real power/impetus/responsibility lies with the CD of the event. He would be inviting quite a ***** storm if he were to announce that a specific brand of ARF's weren't welcome at his event, so he so far won't do it. Until one of the CD's takes this step, it's all just a bunch of whoof-whoof. I think that when someone does finally take that stand, the rest will follow suit.
Ha!
Prophetic, huh?
08-25-2014, 06:45 PM
#67
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Leave Lewis out of this storm he had nothing to do with the design of FEJ. He is a good man anyone that has spent time with him would know that. This will bring an end to FEJ once and for all so just let it die and leave Lewis out of this. Remember this is just a hobby.
08-25-2014, 07:15 PM
#68
Amen.
Lewis is a class act and one hell of an ambassador for this hobby. He doesn't deserve to be sullied by any of this stuff.
08-25-2014, 07:18 PM
#69
Yes, it is just a hobby, but for some people there is a lot of money at stake and that sort of thing tends to cloud judgment. It is tough to leave someone out of this storm when that person has gone on the record so very often claiming that everything is fixed and there are no problems with this jet. Case in point.....
Quote: It's really a simple fix. Some holes were drilled in places that made the plate weak. Should be fine now. I want one really BAD!!!!!!!!!!
Quote: I saw the problem, and the fix will make everything ok. I hope to have one of these soon.
Quote: Reattached the aileron servo arm, and everything is fine now
Quote: The aileron servo arm came off...Plane is fine.
And of course, the unforgettable quote when dubd had the audacity to question this person....
Quote: I've been doing this longer than most of you...I know what I'm talking about!!!
Quote: It's really a simple fix. Some holes were drilled in places that made the plate weak. Should be fine now. I want one really BAD!!!!!!!!!!
Quote: I saw the problem, and the fix will make everything ok. I hope to have one of these soon.
Quote: Reattached the aileron servo arm, and everything is fine now
Quote: The aileron servo arm came off...Plane is fine.
And of course, the unforgettable quote when dubd had the audacity to question this person....
Quote: I've been doing this longer than most of you...I know what I'm talking about!!!
Last edited by rcjets_63; 08-25-2014 at 07:26 PM.
08-25-2014, 11:35 PM
#71
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Damo,
You right, both these jets lost most of their fins and rudders. The F-16 was doing a high speed run during a speed competition (I was on the speed gun) and like David Gladwin suggested, was probably flown inappropriately. The Viper was mine - it is a first generation airframe dating back to 2009 and although I had made the suggested fixes it had failed after 4 years of flying and serving me well. Did it fail due to bad structural design - I cannot say for sure as it may have suffered a bump or two over it's lifetime. What is important to me is the fact that when I sent the following two photo's to SM....
...and opened up....to show that I had done the 5 hinge mod from the original 3
John and Anton immediately came back and sent me a photo of the latest version before they close the mold. Here it is obvious, that SM had learned since my original version that 3 rudder hinges were not enough and that a second ply rib across the fun is required to improve the fin strength. BTW mine did not fail from flutter and I was cruising at 2/3 throttle on my second to last circuit before landing.
This to me is a fantastic response. In fact I went ahead and re-ordered a new airframe (the old one crashed into a fence, but not because it was out of total control, only because I ran out of space to put it down) because of the way SM dealt with me. They have even offered to send me a photo of my new fin before they close it up, should I wish to add another carbon fibre strip or rib reinforcement. I cannot ask for more.
I also want to add that this is the first time in 9 years and 14 SM airframes that I have had any such failure.
Cheers,
Jan
Last edited by Springbok Flyer; 08-25-2014 at 11:44 PM.
08-25-2014, 11:45 PM
#72
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This is a bit harsh. Lewis is a great pilot he just chose a bad company to get behind. Lewis has done so much for the jet community to gang up on him like this is wrong. Make sure you direct everything to FEJ not Lewis. Pretty sure he has learned his lesson now with FEJ.
08-26-2014, 03:33 AM
#74
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Yes, it is just a hobby, but for some people there is a lot of money at stake and that sort of thing tends to cloud judgment. It is tough to leave someone out of this storm when that person has gone on the record so very often claiming that everything is fixed and there are no problems with this jet. Case in point.....
Quote: It's really a simple fix. Some holes were drilled in places that made the plate weak. Should be fine now. I want one really BAD!!!!!!!!!!
Quote: I saw the problem, and the fix will make everything ok. I hope to have one of these soon.
Quote: Reattached the aileron servo arm, and everything is fine now
Quote: The aileron servo arm came off...Plane is fine.
And of course, the unforgettable quote when dubd had the audacity to question this person....
Quote: I've been doing this longer than most of you...I know what I'm talking about!!!
Quote: It's really a simple fix. Some holes were drilled in places that made the plate weak. Should be fine now. I want one really BAD!!!!!!!!!!
Quote: I saw the problem, and the fix will make everything ok. I hope to have one of these soon.
Quote: Reattached the aileron servo arm, and everything is fine now
Quote: The aileron servo arm came off...Plane is fine.
And of course, the unforgettable quote when dubd had the audacity to question this person....
Quote: I've been doing this longer than most of you...I know what I'm talking about!!!
I have well over 100k in this hobby I don't even want to add it all up plus just I case my wife reads this
so trust me I know about the $$$$$ but saying that it's all money that can disappear today( don't get me wrong that would REALLY suck if it did) and it will not affect the most important thing in my life my family which what life is all about. So if someone is spending money that takes ANYTHING away from their family they should be ashamed of themselves. All of this other stuff at the end of the day means nothing on your last day. So just please let it die AND if something was said by someone that was not correct forgive him or her. I am sure we have all said something in our lives that we felt strongly about and it ended up not being correct. That doesn't make you a bad person.
08-26-2014, 06:01 AM
#75
You sir, have no idea what you are talking about.
Here are what the internals of your "old", "better more" FEJ F-16. And that is ME taking the x-rays. And ME cutting into the airframe, exposing the lack of glue on the elevator AND vertical stab.
So please take your 212 posts of FEJ misleading junk out of here before people start dying from these flying time bombs!
Here are what the internals of your "old", "better more" FEJ F-16. And that is ME taking the x-rays. And ME cutting into the airframe, exposing the lack of glue on the elevator AND vertical stab.
So please take your 212 posts of FEJ misleading junk out of here before people start dying from these flying time bombs!
Great you have pictures of yours,,, That's not mine,,,,
I have always heard that the jet guys tend to be a different kind of member, I got my waiver and have had all kind of help, really nice people. I have had plenty experience with fellow Texans who fly these models, and some guys from Arizona,
I am always reading on this forum, and there tends to be about 15 members on here who are constantly running down other members and their " JUNK" as you describe it, You consider it inferior, no matter what, or when it was made, ore even if the owner has put hours and hours and more $$$ into modifying it and strengthening it . Even though I can go back some years and see all these same people raving about FEJ when they came out. For the time I have been on this forum I have seen all these comments about people losing their jets, and "we should ban this, and we should ban that, blah blah blah . FOR SAFETY,, but if you read further the real reason they are upset if because they lost their jet, and have no support, or compensation from the manufacturer, I can see why you would be mad, and the only recourse of action they are left with is to scream from the hills, these jets are unsafe, while I have no doubt that the new ones are flawed, and due to what I have read I would never purchase one, My next jet will be from Yellow or skymaster, but I still have my FEJ. and when I put any thoghts on it on a forum, these same people, jump on and start bashing, not just the plane but the owners,,,, SO what I have seen is not all turbine members are arrogant a--holes just a select few,
So instead of saying something on the lines of I a have x-rayed my own older ply built FEJ and found flaws in it, or something like that instead,
In your post you actually tell me to take my responses and my junk out of here,,,, So that further proves, YOU are one of them,,, you know the a--holes that people run into in this hobby
SO,,
Any time you see a post I made,,, PASS It BY BECAUSE YOU ARE BANNED from responding or quoting my post,, I do not like you, we are not friends, I consider you and your experience, and MAINLY your Personality INFERIOR compared to other turbine waivered members, and that is my opinion,
If you were to say to people to their face what you do on this forum, you would get a reality check real quick, right upside your head, and you would not be so mouthy,,
SO you can go ahead and type whatever you want to try and run me down, I wont be reading it, I am done with this post, I am not going to get into a computer keyboard war with you,
If you are coming to the greater southwest jet rally in Waco, My name is RONNIE DEAN, come find me, we can go have a discussion away from the field, and you tell me what you think,,
To the original poster, I am sorry you lost your plane it sucks to lose all that money,
Last edited by raron455; 08-26-2014 at 06:06 AM.