Demon Cortex Gyro question
12-12-2014, 11:31 AM
#277
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Futaba S.bus vs S.bus2
Last night I set up my SM Mig-29 With the Demon Cortex Gyro.
I've never used one of these but it looks like it will be fun and I'm looking forward to driving the Vectored Thrust Nozzles into it and playing with the Heading Hold mode in Hover.
Anyway I set it up using the PC Software to use it as Futaba S.Bus and the 18MZ Tx.
In all of my other models I use the S.Bus2 port on the bottom of the R7008SB Rx to drive the SBD-1 PWM Converters to drive the servos in excess of the 8 physical ports on the Rx.
It was working pretty well but I was getting Jumps and Jolts occasionally on the servos. Kind of glitchy I didn't feel it was right.
What I did to fix it was to change the mode of the Rx to mode 4 (you could also use mode 2) What this did was changed the phyical ports on the Rx 1-7 to Rc channels 9-15. The the 8th port became a dedicated S.Bus (not S.bus2) port. That was the output I used to feed the Cortex Gyro and everything was smooth as glass.
The S.Bus2 port is bi-directional. It sends information to the servos and in addition it receives data for telemetry sensors back to the Rx. I think the telemetry data was freaking the gyro out a little bit. The Manual states it supports S.Bus and doesn't mention S.Bus2.
So you give up one output port on the Rx (port 8) and convert it to a dedicated S.Bus port. But you gain 5 Output ports out of the Gyro (possibly 7 if you use the throttle and additional channel output).
I'm controlling 14 channels now with no SBD-1 converters. It worked out to be a nice simple installation.
Hopefully The weather will break and I can play with it this weekend!
Happy Flying!
Steve
I've never used one of these but it looks like it will be fun and I'm looking forward to driving the Vectored Thrust Nozzles into it and playing with the Heading Hold mode in Hover.
Anyway I set it up using the PC Software to use it as Futaba S.Bus and the 18MZ Tx.
In all of my other models I use the S.Bus2 port on the bottom of the R7008SB Rx to drive the SBD-1 PWM Converters to drive the servos in excess of the 8 physical ports on the Rx.
It was working pretty well but I was getting Jumps and Jolts occasionally on the servos. Kind of glitchy I didn't feel it was right.
What I did to fix it was to change the mode of the Rx to mode 4 (you could also use mode 2) What this did was changed the phyical ports on the Rx 1-7 to Rc channels 9-15. The the 8th port became a dedicated S.Bus (not S.bus2) port. That was the output I used to feed the Cortex Gyro and everything was smooth as glass.
The S.Bus2 port is bi-directional. It sends information to the servos and in addition it receives data for telemetry sensors back to the Rx. I think the telemetry data was freaking the gyro out a little bit. The Manual states it supports S.Bus and doesn't mention S.Bus2.
So you give up one output port on the Rx (port 8) and convert it to a dedicated S.Bus port. But you gain 5 Output ports out of the Gyro (possibly 7 if you use the throttle and additional channel output).
I'm controlling 14 channels now with no SBD-1 converters. It worked out to be a nice simple installation.
Hopefully The weather will break and I can play with it this weekend!
Happy Flying!
Steve
12-12-2014, 12:34 PM
#279
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Last night I set up my SM Mig-29 With the Demon Cortex Gyro.
I've never used one of these but it looks like it will be fun and I'm looking forward to driving the Vectored Thrust Nozzles into it and playing with the Heading Hold mode in Hover.
Anyway I set it up using the PC Software to use it as Futaba S.Bus and the 18MZ Tx.
In all of my other models I use the S.Bus2 port on the bottom of the R7008SB Rx to drive the SBD-1 PWM Converters to drive the servos in excess of the 8 physical ports on the Rx.
It was working pretty well but I was getting Jumps and Jolts occasionally on the servos. Kind of glitchy I didn't feel it was right.
What I did to fix it was to change the mode of the Rx to mode 4 (you could also use mode 2) What this did was changed the phyical ports on the Rx 1-7 to Rc channels 9-15. The the 8th port became a dedicated S.Bus (not S.bus2) port. That was the output I used to feed the Cortex Gyro and everything was smooth as glass.
The S.Bus2 port is bi-directional. It sends information to the servos and in addition it receives data for telemetry sensors back to the Rx. I think the telemetry data was freaking the gyro out a little bit. The Manual states it supports S.Bus and doesn't mention S.Bus2.
So you give up one output port on the Rx (port 8) and convert it to a dedicated S.Bus port. But you gain 5 Output ports out of the Gyro (possibly 7 if you use the throttle and additional channel output).
I'm controlling 14 channels now with no SBD-1 converters. It worked out to be a nice simple installation.
Hopefully The weather will break and I can play with it this weekend!
Happy Flying!
Steve
I've never used one of these but it looks like it will be fun and I'm looking forward to driving the Vectored Thrust Nozzles into it and playing with the Heading Hold mode in Hover.
Anyway I set it up using the PC Software to use it as Futaba S.Bus and the 18MZ Tx.
In all of my other models I use the S.Bus2 port on the bottom of the R7008SB Rx to drive the SBD-1 PWM Converters to drive the servos in excess of the 8 physical ports on the Rx.
It was working pretty well but I was getting Jumps and Jolts occasionally on the servos. Kind of glitchy I didn't feel it was right.
What I did to fix it was to change the mode of the Rx to mode 4 (you could also use mode 2) What this did was changed the phyical ports on the Rx 1-7 to Rc channels 9-15. The the 8th port became a dedicated S.Bus (not S.bus2) port. That was the output I used to feed the Cortex Gyro and everything was smooth as glass.
The S.Bus2 port is bi-directional. It sends information to the servos and in addition it receives data for telemetry sensors back to the Rx. I think the telemetry data was freaking the gyro out a little bit. The Manual states it supports S.Bus and doesn't mention S.Bus2.
So you give up one output port on the Rx (port 8) and convert it to a dedicated S.Bus port. But you gain 5 Output ports out of the Gyro (possibly 7 if you use the throttle and additional channel output).
I'm controlling 14 channels now with no SBD-1 converters. It worked out to be a nice simple installation.
Hopefully The weather will break and I can play with it this weekend!
Happy Flying!
Steve
Scott
12-12-2014, 01:54 PM
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IMHO it might be that the Powerbox and the Cortex are doing partly the same job. That is taking the serial S.Bus signal and converting it to PWM (standard servo outputs).
My guess would be to bypass the PowerBox on the Five channels that the Cortex is controlling.
Use a Y-Connector out of the Rx S.Bus Port. One going to the Power box S.Bus input and the other going to the Cortex S.Bus input. Then plug the 5 Servos you want controlled by the gyros into outputs A-E on the Cortex. All the other servos would go to the PowerBox outputs.
You might run an additional power wire, a male-male servo wire power only (clip the white wire, red and black only) from an unused output on the PowerBox to an unused plug on the Gyro. Not necessary but will help bring a little extra current to the gyro running 5 servos.
Hope this helps, good luck!
My guess would be to bypass the PowerBox on the Five channels that the Cortex is controlling.
Use a Y-Connector out of the Rx S.Bus Port. One going to the Power box S.Bus input and the other going to the Cortex S.Bus input. Then plug the 5 Servos you want controlled by the gyros into outputs A-E on the Cortex. All the other servos would go to the PowerBox outputs.
You might run an additional power wire, a male-male servo wire power only (clip the white wire, red and black only) from an unused output on the PowerBox to an unused plug on the Gyro. Not necessary but will help bring a little extra current to the gyro running 5 servos.
Hope this helps, good luck!
12-12-2014, 02:16 PM
#282
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I've thought about that but since I'm running (2) rx's I would not get the redundancy and defeat the purpose of the powerbox. The competition SRS does not have an sbus output either, which is another idea. Interesting thought though.
Scott
Scott
12-12-2014, 06:50 PM
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12-12-2014, 10:45 PM
#284
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I would guess if that's the case then just use the wiring loom that comes with the Cortex, Take the five channels you want to stabilize and run those outputs from the PowerBox into the Cortex. Then use the A,B,C,D and E outputs on the Cortex to drive the servos. .. Good Luck .. Hope it works
Cheers,
Jan
01-17-2015, 02:05 PM
#285
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I have to admit to being disappointed with my Cortex feeling I have been misled. Before purchase I emailed Demon to ask if it was compatible with the 18MZ Robbe 2018 and sBus, the reply was "yes". Shortly after unboxing I find it has no sBus output which if used would totally negate the principal of sBus.
i spoke to the factory guy at Jetpower who told me it would be 12 months for them to drag themselves into the twenty first century!
i spoke to the factory guy at Jetpower who told me it would be 12 months for them to drag themselves into the twenty first century!
This has been discussed in a couple Demon threads (maybe even this one). The use of a SBE-1 might be a work-around, but not sure anyone has tried it yet. I know Bob_B was going to try it out, just don't know when. I'm also going to try when I return home as I have two sBus equipped planes I'd like to try the Cortex in.
It would jitter, then eventually "lock up" the system where nothing, and would only work again after cycling power. Using the PC, I switched to SBUS, and in the Diagnosis tab, the Cortex was receiving all the correct data and showed all the stick movements. I even went through the "teaching" mode and all axis showed stabilized, but as soon as the SBE-1 is plugged into the Cortex, everything freaks, then quits. I tried multiple set-up methods, but as soon as the SBE-1 becomes "active", it's over. The only thing that may be a variable that I'm unsure of is the fact that the SBE-1 is used and not new, so I guess there's a slight chance the SBE-1 could be "bad". I will try again if I get a new SBE, or I may try to verify it by testing it in the capacity it was intended for by plugging it into a 6014 and see it will drive some sbus servos.
01-17-2015, 05:37 PM
#286
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Cortex gyro. Planning ail y-ed,,, two elev,,, one works correct direction other need to be reversed? rudder and nws All surfaces will be stabilized as plugged in. Now can the one elev servo be reversed in PC mode? Newbe on the gyro circuit?
01-18-2015, 04:45 AM
#289
Wayne there are 5 inputs/outputs on the cortex and each can be used to stabilize any surface
so you can have two Seperate elevator input to the the cortex and then to separate elevators allowing you to reverse one as needed in the Tx. Then when you do the learning phase of the setup the gyro learns your radio setup.
so you can have two Seperate elevator input to the the cortex and then to separate elevators allowing you to reverse one as needed in the Tx. Then when you do the learning phase of the setup the gyro learns your radio setup.
01-18-2015, 05:28 AM
#290
My Feedback: (57)
I have to admit to being disappointed with my Cortex feeling I have been misled. Before purchase I emailed Demon to ask if it was compatible with the 18MZ Robbe 2018 and sBus, the reply was "yes". Shortly after unboxing I find it has no sBus output which if used would totally negate the principal of sBus.
i spoke to the factory guy at Jetpower who told me it would be 12 months for them to drag themselves into the twenty first century!
i spoke to the factory guy at Jetpower who told me it would be 12 months for them to drag themselves into the twenty first century!
Okay, I finally got a chance to try an SBE-1 into the (out) side of the Cortex which would convert the PWM to sbus essentially giving me sbus out of the gyro. The verdict: it didn't work! It would jitter, then eventually "lock up" the system where nothing, and would only work again after cycling power. Using the PC, I switched to SBUS, and in the Diagnosis tab, the Cortex was receiving all the correct data and showed all the stick movements. I even went through the "teaching" mode and all axis showed stabilized, but as soon as the SBE-1 is plugged into the Cortex, everything freaks, then quits. I tried multiple set-up methods, but as soon as the SBE-1 becomes "active", it's over.
The only thing that may be a variable that I'm unsure of is the fact that the SBE-1 is used and not new, so I guess there's a slight chance the SBE-1 could be "bad". I will try again if I get a new SBE, or I may try to verify it by testing it in the capacity it was intended for by plugging it into a 6014 and see it will drive some sbus servos.
It would jitter, then eventually "lock up" the system where nothing, and would only work again after cycling power. Using the PC, I switched to SBUS, and in the Diagnosis tab, the Cortex was receiving all the correct data and showed all the stick movements. I even went through the "teaching" mode and all axis showed stabilized, but as soon as the SBE-1 is plugged into the Cortex, everything freaks, then quits. I tried multiple set-up methods, but as soon as the SBE-1 becomes "active", it's over. The only thing that may be a variable that I'm unsure of is the fact that the SBE-1 is used and not new, so I guess there's a slight chance the SBE-1 could be "bad". I will try again if I get a new SBE, or I may try to verify it by testing it in the capacity it was intended for by plugging it into a 6014 and see it will drive some sbus servos.
I checked the SBE-1 by connecting to a non-sbus rx and plugging the S-out into a hub on the plane, and it worked as intended. SO, it appears the SBE is "good" and works when used as designed, but does not work on the back-end of the Cortex to provide serial out for an all sbus set-up. Hopefully there will be an "sbus" gyro similar to the Cortex or 3e available soon.
01-18-2015, 06:08 AM
#292
UPDATE:
I checked the SBE-1 by connecting to a non-sbus rx and plugging the S-out into a hub on the plane, and it worked as intended. SO, it appears the SBE is "good" and works when used as designed, but does not work on the back-end of the Cortex to provide serial out for an all sbus set-up. Hopefully there will be an "sbus" gyro similar to the Cortex or 3e available soon.
I checked the SBE-1 by connecting to a non-sbus rx and plugging the S-out into a hub on the plane, and it worked as intended. SO, it appears the SBE is "good" and works when used as designed, but does not work on the back-end of the Cortex to provide serial out for an all sbus set-up. Hopefully there will be an "sbus" gyro similar to the Cortex or 3e available soon.
01-18-2015, 06:17 AM
#293
My Feedback: (57)
Since all the Cortex does is provide servo outputs, the same as a receiver, if you connect an SBE-1 and sbus servos are jumping, that really can only be caused by the SBE-1 as it's driving the servo. Not saying the SBE-1 is broken but it appears it can't handle the frame rate provided by the Cortex. Did you configure the Cortex to use analog servos or digital servos? I'm guessing digital by the symptoms you're describing. If so, most likely that's the problem. It doesn't matter if the actual servos used are digital or not, what's important in this case is whether or not the SBE-1 can handle the higher frame rate and my guess is it can't. If the Cortex is configured for digital servos, change it to analog and try again.
I agree; and yes, I set to digital. I also forgot to mention, you can see the "glitching" in the PC software as the entire screen "blinks".
I'll change to analog and see if that makes a difference.
01-18-2015, 06:38 AM
#294
Is the output from the SBE-1 the only S-BUS signal in your setup, or is it being combined somewhere (e.g. a hub?) with a S-BUS signal directly from the RX? i.e. Have you inadvertently supplied 2 S-BUS signals that are conflicting with each other?
01-18-2015, 08:31 AM
#295
George... Please make sure you have software PC 1.2 and cortex firmware v15...
01-18-2015, 08:41 AM
#296
Just to be sure I fully understand your setup, you have a Futaba receiver, outputting SBUS to the Cortex and then you have the 5 Cortex outputs connected to five of the inputs to the SBE-1 and the SBE-1's SBUS output driving the SBUS network in a plane. When you say you see the glitching in the PC software, I assume you mean the Cortex PC software. If you see glitching there then the Cortex is having problems decoding the SBUS input and is probably passing the problems on to the SBE-1 and everything that follows. Here is what I would do first.
1) Connect the SBUS receiver output to the Cortex Sum Signal Input (next to setup jumper).
2) Connect the Cortex to the PC interface and first make sure the Cortex has the latest firmware.
3) Use the PC interface to ensure that the Cortex is configured to accept SBUS input and Analog servo outputs
4) Look at the Cortex outputs using the PC interface and verify that all the controls are operating the expected channels and everything works smoothly.
5) Connect some servos to the Cortex servo outputs and verify that they all operate smoothly,
If all of the is working correctly, disconnect the servos from the Cortex and connect the SBE-1. It should work properly at that point as it shouldn't be able to
tell the difference between a receivers servo outputs and the Cortex servo outputs..
Hope you're able to get it sorted out.
1) Connect the SBUS receiver output to the Cortex Sum Signal Input (next to setup jumper).
2) Connect the Cortex to the PC interface and first make sure the Cortex has the latest firmware.
3) Use the PC interface to ensure that the Cortex is configured to accept SBUS input and Analog servo outputs
4) Look at the Cortex outputs using the PC interface and verify that all the controls are operating the expected channels and everything works smoothly.
5) Connect some servos to the Cortex servo outputs and verify that they all operate smoothly,
If all of the is working correctly, disconnect the servos from the Cortex and connect the SBE-1. It should work properly at that point as it shouldn't be able to
tell the difference between a receivers servo outputs and the Cortex servo outputs..
Hope you're able to get it sorted out.
01-18-2015, 10:36 AM
#299
My Feedback: (57)
1) Connect the SBUS receiver output to the Cortex Sum Signal Input (next to setup jumper).
2) Connect the Cortex to the PC interface and first make sure the Cortex has the latest firmware.
3) Use the PC interface to ensure that the Cortex is configured to accept SBUS input and Analog servo outputs
4) Look at the Cortex outputs using the PC interface and verify that all the controls are operating the expected channels and everything works smoothly.
5) Connect some servos to the Cortex servo outputs and verify that they all operate smoothly,
If all of the is working correctly, disconnect the servos from the Cortex and connect the SBE-1. It should work properly at that point as it shouldn't be able to
tell the difference between a receivers servo outputs and the Cortex servo outputs..
Hope you're able to get it sorted out.
2. Check!
3. Check!
4. Check!
5. Check!
Still doesn't work. As soon as the SBE is connected, everything goes screwy. I also tried leaving a servo connected to one of the outs of the Cortex, and even that servo started jittering when the SBE was connected. The only thing I can figure is that the SBE is "back-feeding" into the Cortex causing the problems. And yes, it can all be seen in the Cortex PC software. The other thing is, once it starts glitching/jittering, it will not stop even if you unplug the SBE. The power has to turned off and when it is powered back on, all is fine as long as the SBE is not connected.
I was waiting for someone else to try this, but since I hadn't seen anything, I thought it might be a solution. I think I'm done at this point unless there's something else I can try that hasn't been tried, but I doubt it will work if it is in fact back-feeding; and I'm not entirely sure how to check that.
It's still a great piece of equipment, but just doesn't work as I like in a 100% sbus set-up. Yeeh, I know I can run extensions to the gyro, but that defeats the purpose.
01-18-2015, 11:03 AM
#300
Interesting. I was hoping to do exactly this using the SBE-1 to re-create the SBus stream from the Cortex outputs. I will have to give it a try and confirm.
FYI, the original iGyro (not the new less expansive one) DOES have an SBus output (in fact two "Dig out" ports have the SBus stream with the Gyro corrections included).
I had an issue with one of my iGyros not putting out this stream correctly and learned from the PB guys that some of the early iGyros needed an update back at the factory to update so the serial output would work. As usual this info is available on the PB forum, and they are happy to have the unit back to correct it. They seem to be a really first-class company from how they support their customers.
I think the reason I have an interest in this topic overlaps with some of the others here .. to marry a good gyro with the Robbe 2018. I think the only way to do this properly at this point is to use the original iGyro, then feed both of its digital outs to the PSS2018. The only slight issue here is that if you use two RXs, the iGyro will select the active receiver and put that signal out to both Dig out ports, and will not pass along the signal quality info to the PSS. So if you are accustomed to having the RX signal performance in the 2018 log file on the memory card, that will be lost.
I am sure the PB guys would just suggest using a Royal SRS with all the functions (and more) of the iGyro and PSS2018 already included :-)
Dave
FYI, the original iGyro (not the new less expansive one) DOES have an SBus output (in fact two "Dig out" ports have the SBus stream with the Gyro corrections included).
I had an issue with one of my iGyros not putting out this stream correctly and learned from the PB guys that some of the early iGyros needed an update back at the factory to update so the serial output would work. As usual this info is available on the PB forum, and they are happy to have the unit back to correct it. They seem to be a really first-class company from how they support their customers.
I think the reason I have an interest in this topic overlaps with some of the others here .. to marry a good gyro with the Robbe 2018. I think the only way to do this properly at this point is to use the original iGyro, then feed both of its digital outs to the PSS2018. The only slight issue here is that if you use two RXs, the iGyro will select the active receiver and put that signal out to both Dig out ports, and will not pass along the signal quality info to the PSS. So if you are accustomed to having the RX signal performance in the 2018 log file on the memory card, that will be lost.
I am sure the PB guys would just suggest using a Royal SRS with all the functions (and more) of the iGyro and PSS2018 already included :-)
Dave
