Dan Reilly

Hello everyone,

My senior design team and I are in the process of converting a JetCat P80SE to run on methane rather than the recommended 1-k kerosene fuel. We are in the research stage right now and are attempting to really understand how the P80SE works. We found a "How its Made" video on the turbine and it helped us a lot (Model R/C Turbines). Several aspects of the turbine are a bit blurry to us at this point.

• We are having trouble finding much information on the materials used in the combustion chamber, specifically the fuel injectors. Since methane burns so much hotter than kerosene (approximately 1900 C vs 1030 C), we can only assume we will be required to re-engineer the combustion chamber as well as the fuel injectors to function under higher thermal loads. Could anyone help us out on the exact materials used in the P80SE combustion chamber?
• Furthermore, methane requires more energy to ignite due to it's molecular properties. Would you suggest looking into new glow plug designs in order to combat the higher ignition energy and if so what kind should we look into?
• The manual suggests adding 5% synthetic oil to the fuel. We know in some turbines, fuel is used as a journal bearing to lubricate the space between shafts, therefore the synthetic oil is added. We found the bearing system in the P80SE is just two sets of stainless-ceramic hybrid ball bearings. Does the fuel ever come in contact with the ball bearing system?

Any thoughts, suggestions, or questions are absolutely welcomed!

Thanks!

AndyAndrews

Why don't you just call JetCat and ask them?

mitchilito

My Feedback: (7)

That was not very helpful, Andy.

hmjets

Jetcats Combustion chamber and fuel vaporizers are made in inconel alloy.and the tip of
vaporizers,where the fuel burns,sufer to much erosion.

bluescoobydoo

be careful you don't know who these people are. if they are working with the air force why come here

speed is life

Methane? The methane generating system might be a bit bulky to fit in a normal size model.

Wclays

My Feedback: (85)

Not saying this is the case, but this is how information is obtained soforeign sources can steal technology.

I receive this type of requests for information about UAV's, by email every day, it looks innocent, but many times it is not.

Most of all of this stuff is on the internet, plus the poster does not provide enough information about were they are from, what college, etc.

GhostRider 1

Dan,

I have a suggest for you, hire another "Design Team" if they can't figure out what they are looking at after dissecting apart a turbine. Coming to RCU for advice is the most preposterous thing an Engineer or head of a "Design Team" could do. I have a suggestion, why doesn't your "Design Team" actually design something on their own, spend some of your government grant money on a thing called Research & Development or R&D for short, instead of trying to steal another manufacturers technology? Seriously, coming on RCU looking for answers on such rudimentary questions like does the bearings come in contact with fuel? When your top designer took apart the turbine did he find a wet sump system with cooling radiators to lubricate the bearings? Geesshhh....

Ghostrider1 out!!

Dan Reilly

We've been trying to contact them. No responses yet, but we keep trying.

Dan Reilly

Everything we are working with isn't classified.

jason

My Feedback: (1)

As the hot end of your engine is made of both the stainless and inconel which melts at about 1500 deg I'd give up.

Jason

mitchilito

My Feedback: (7)

Really???

Dan Reilly

Thank you sir!

Dan Reilly

Hey thanks for the constructive criticism!

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

Your problems are not the internal mettalic materials. Your issues will lie
on using a thermocouple rated for your expected EGT and reprogramming the ECU for the specific energy of methane, and pbly improving insulatiin of components inside the cowl.

You need help from JetCat for sure, and that comes at a cost. I would start with an RFI/RFP to JetCat or Dreamworks RC if you are serious.

David

Calil

I'm curious, Why you wanto to do this conversion?

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

The combustion chamber is some alloy of iconel. I can't remember if the needles are on a P-80.

The details of the chamber design control gas flow so who knows how it will run on methane. At least you don't have to worry as much about atomizing the fuel.

If it is hard to ignite you can use a spark plug or a piezo ignitor.

The fuel system is designed to send some fuel/oil mix into the bearing tunnel. You can inject some sort of lube into the same inlet port, could use compressor pressure to force the lube in, many of the first hobby turbines used this technique.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

As David said Jetcat does a lot of customization for industry and government so just generate an RFQ for what you need. I would address that to JetCat in Germany.

Jgwright

Are you really sure about the temperatures you quote?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiabat...me_temperature

John

bluescoobydoo

wren already sell engines for schools,uni's etc try them

toolmaker7341

So answer the questions Where are you located and what school is this for. NO idenity NO info