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Why rebuilding turbine by jet companies cost so much $ is this monopol .

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Why rebuilding turbine by jet companies cost so much $ is this monopol .

Old 10-03-2014, 04:35 PM
  #26  
sysiek
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OK look on typical harley Davidson owner the average is the make at least
$75000 a year and most of them now having responsible work and in other hand there the other bikers no one asking what the do for living the all waving to each other on the road. Just have fun and bring more people to enjoy this hobby.i rather see some one with proper new stuff than old junk third hand from eBay or swap meet than risk crashing and cost more problems .
Old 10-03-2014, 04:50 PM
  #27  
sysiek
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One more think I know some people with money doing are hobby and trust me the shoul never be aloud to do because the spend the money not only the aloud to fly the even give them trophies when the show up with new big expensive jet so the buy some new one for next year and spend more money and in return the will give them a new trophy for best looking ,sport,,or ,, military jet,,
Old 10-03-2014, 05:26 PM
  #28  
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Well the price of turbines might drop when Hobby King cranks them out at $500 a pop. I agree, Bob at Jetcat USA's treatment of me and my P70's catastrophic failure with an hours run time cost them my future business. I now own King Tech's. I won't buy another Jet cat, plain and simple. I'll buy any other brand pretty much. It cost me over $800 for something Jet Cat should have covered under warranty. As for routine maintenance you are referring to, as a Jet Mech, like I was in the USAF, you know rebuilding a jet isn;t rocket science. Yes, you need specialty tools, and those cost a lot of money. Our little toy turbines..not so much. You can cut your costs down on the engines as well by sending it in when it actually show signs of getting old, not at 25 hours. Most EU countries even have a 50 hour spec for Jet Cats in Germany etc. If you run the oils King tech recommends, you may even get further. You can buy the ceramic bearings from Boca Bearing for your Jet Cat!! And replace them yourself. You can soak the parts in MEK, or Trichloroethylene, and that will remove the soot and carbon build up. Then check the turbine balance and if okay, re-assemble and go another 50+ hours. Total cost about $150 plus your own time.
Old 10-03-2014, 05:37 PM
  #29  
reo
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Originally Posted by luv2flyrc
At the risk of sounding somewhat elitist, the high price tags, whether warranted or not, keep most of the riff raff out of the jet world. Can you imagine the carnage if Joe Average modeller could afford a turbine? One only has to read some of the other forums on here to get an idea of what goes on. It wouldn't be long before none of us were allowed to fly them.

The high price tag has the benefit of generally only allowing a well established , mature individual with years of modelling experience being able to afford a turbine. The sting to the pocket book eliminates the inexperienced yahoo's.

Mike
I have been in the hobby for almost 40 years and jets for 14 yrs and I still find this comment offensive. There are lots of very capable young fliers, (maybe even more capable than the "established, mature individual" referred to above, whose only drawback may be that they can't afford the jet part of the hobby right now.....this does not make these good kids 'riff raff'......obviously money can't buy class!
Old 10-03-2014, 05:46 PM
  #30  
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I am with you REO....I have been flying 37 yrs, jets for 3, and can barely afford them myself. I consider myself a better than average pilot. There is a 18 yr old in our club that can slow roll 3 feet off the deck at 200MPH.....I am not worthy! So I guess I border on the riff raff
Old 10-03-2014, 05:48 PM
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I just got two sets of bearings for $70 for a set ,for my future jet cat and jet central turbine service + one turbine for parts !the jet central are dead to me and the jetcat?you all know so for now we are have the kingtech and hou know for how long for now the doing good just like jet cat 10 years ago .
Old 10-03-2014, 10:11 PM
  #32  
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Well the price of turbines might drop when Hobby King cranks them out at $500 a pop.
Yep, that's going well!

John.
Old 10-04-2014, 03:27 AM
  #33  
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i did make an account, and, if you sent your turbine 4 times to maintenance, after 25 hrs, this is the money of an new engine, i run our engines, 50 ~ 60 hrs, when they back from dealer, needs only change bearings, and, the bearings could runs more 10 ~ 20 hours without any risk.The costs are US$450,00 ~ US$700,00. until US$400,00 for service and parts, its ok to me, but, above this value, buy an KINGTECH !!!
Well, today if our engine have had any "bigger" problem, i prefer buy new one, and, i will use the old to serve as spare parts.
we have 11 turbines, flying since 2001.


thats my point

Jose

Last edited by josecilurzo; 10-04-2014 at 03:32 AM.
Old 10-04-2014, 04:25 AM
  #34  
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Perfect !! Great reply to money.. Elite or snobs??
Old 10-04-2014, 07:35 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Joe Westrich
I think a lot of people have been waiting for something like Kingtech. More thrust less money.... but quality still there. I personally don't need a super high tech system that cost a few hundred more. I just want reliability and a good price.
Indeed. This is why I now run Kingtech. Can't say enough good about 'em...the engine, the people, the service.

Have to admit, there was a bit of 'culture shock' not seeing a purple engine in my jets, but I'm waaaaaay over that now
Old 10-04-2014, 07:51 AM
  #36  
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Ok they charge what they charge because they know you will pay big to fix them. I own a Harley and iam retired and not making what i use to but if i need parts they are not cheap either . I do all the work myself and have for years but take your bike in and see the bill you will get. Again because most who want a jet or Harley will pay crazy money to keep them running well or they will sell them as a lesson learned . Parts for it and if i have to take mine in is part of owning somthing worth keeping .Does my girlfriend agree with my high priced toys ?heck no ! She does not want me to own a plane or motorcycle and another good reason to keep them So you question about why they charge so much to work on your motor can be applyed to many toys us guys own or want to own and some never will.. ,its because we bought them and like them and others know we are willing to pay for them to be fixed . joe

Last edited by joebahl; 10-04-2014 at 07:54 AM.
Old 10-04-2014, 07:52 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by sysiek
I like your build on the f-14 .I just don't have the capital to build new brand of turbine and this is hard to dour at least in USA its much easier in countries with less expensive labor and where it's so many government owned cnc machines and low paid quality workers. The point is I wish the will be more competition in this hobby to make this more affordable you don't have to drive Ferrari to make you happy the Toyota Honda will do just fine maybe least expensive turbine will make the hobby better and not so isolated to others with less income that was my point. Don't hate me for trying make this hobby better for all.If it would make u happier turbines would be more affordability
No no one is "hating" you. People are just stating the simple economics behind current prices. With each turbine manufacturer, prices for repair vary and you have cheaper options.

And screw having the Ferrari of turbine engines. That just sounds like a maintenance headache. Give me the Porsche of turbine engines. High performance, great design, and reliable!
Old 10-04-2014, 08:26 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by sysiek
I just got two sets of bearings for $70 for a set ,for my future jet cat and jet central turbine service + one turbine for parts !the jet central are dead to me and the jetcat?you all know so for now we are have the kingtech and hou know for how long for now the doing good just like jet cat 10 years ago .

I would be interested to know where you got your GRW ceramic Hybrid bearings from at $35 each. The retail price of these bearings is $79.95 each at Boca bearings.

John
Old 10-04-2014, 09:04 AM
  #39  
sysiek
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Just look on the recently sold right by turbines + the jetjoe sales turbine bearings .
Old 10-04-2014, 10:30 AM
  #40  
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bw5493,

After you replace the bearings you bought online, How do you suggest the local guy should check the balance? I use a $25,000.00 balancer and dynamically balance our rotor assemblies below 1mg on the Compressor the Turbine wheels. I just received a turbine a month ago, that a very competent Engineer took it upon himself to change the bearings. He indicated the wheels and assembled it back to what he thought was perfect. After running the turbine a few flights it started making weird noises so he sent it to me for inspection. I found his Compressor retaining nut was loose and ready to depart. I have proven over and over to guys at my shop that I can balance a rotor assembly, loosen the retaining nut, retighten the nut and it is out of balance a much as 20-40mg. I suggest that if you are flying a jet worth thousands of dollars, spend the extra $150.00 to have your turbine serviced properly by the guys who have the proper equipment. It not only could save your investment, it could save a life if your DIY service fails and the turbine blows apart.

Regards,

Dirk
KingTech Service
Old 10-04-2014, 01:17 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by flejter1
bw5493,

After you replace the bearings you bought online, How do you suggest the local guy should check the balance? I use a $25,000.00 balancer and dynamically balance our rotor assemblies below 1mg on the Compressor the Turbine wheels. I just received a turbine a month ago, that a very competent Engineer took it upon himself to change the bearings. He indicated the wheels and assembled it back to what he thought was perfect. After running the turbine a few flights it started making weird noises so he sent it to me for inspection. I found his Compressor retaining nut was loose and ready to depart. I have proven over and over to guys at my shop that I can balance a rotor assembly, loosen the retaining nut, retighten the nut and it is out of balance a much as 20-40mg. I suggest that if you are flying a jet worth thousands of dollars, spend the extra $150.00 to have your turbine serviced properly by the guys who have the proper equipment. It not only could save your investment, it could save a life if your DIY service fails and the turbine blows apart.

Regards,

Dirk
KingTech Service
+1+1+1
Old 10-04-2014, 06:37 PM
  #42  
sysiek
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Do not worry I'm not going to do that to kingtech turbine ,just some old jetcat and I will use to fly in old jet witch is worth not much ,I have least expensive balancer to balance the all thre elements before reassembled + the rear bearing got overheated beacons the oil restrictor su range needle was bent by the previous owner almost 80degre and restrict the oil to much .

Last edited by sysiek; 10-04-2014 at 07:52 PM.
Old 10-04-2014, 07:42 PM
  #43  
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Dirk, no worries, when my K80 needs service..its going into you. I do know that you have to be very fault weary rebuilding a turbine. I was a Jet Engine Mechanic in the USAF for 6 years, I get it. However, there are guys that will do what ever to save a dime, and changing their own bearings can be done. Recommended..dubious, but it can be done. I know most of the guys I fly with go over the 25 hrs and have no issues at all. They also send their Jet Cats to Germany to get repaired because Bob Wilcox is horrible. He is the number one reason why I now own your product!! Which is good news for you and your business. I will probably send mine in at 25 hrs just to keep the warranty in tact. I also run the recommended oil, and Jet A only too.
Old 10-04-2014, 07:51 PM
  #44  
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I did the bearings change not safe the dime just to have don fast and not to wait months and be charged for other parts like o ring .
Old 10-05-2014, 03:29 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by reo
I have been in the hobby for almost 40 years and jets for 14 yrs and I still find this comment offensive. There are lots of very capable young fliers, (maybe even more capable than the "established, mature individual" referred to above, whose only drawback may be that they can't afford the jet part of the hobby right now.....this does not make these good kids 'riff raff'......obviously money can't buy class!
or common sense!!!... ( Capt. Riff Raff}
Old 10-05-2014, 06:38 AM
  #46  
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The smaller the part the the higher precision required in making. Which means higher rejects of parts which means higher parts cost. The cost to rebuild a full size turbine can be in the millions.
Old 10-05-2014, 07:04 AM
  #47  
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There is one thing that is forgotten on this discussion, that is the warranty.

If you do the repair yourself, and the engine fails at second flight, you cannot complain, but if the engine has been serviced by a company, you will expect that the engine be rebuilt for free if the failure has been caused by improper assembly.

Repairs aren't a profitable business. Don't know all manufacturers but at JetsMunt, labor is always a flat rate of 60EUR for repairs that don't need full disassembly, and a flat rate of 150EUR for all other repairs. Total is these 150EUR + the parts replaced. These 150EUR (190USD) pay for the labor, the premises, balancer, tools, training... but also pay for the warranty that legally should be given for all repairs, at least here in Europe.

Gaspar
Old 10-05-2014, 07:29 AM
  #48  
sysiek
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Hi Gaspar I have two vt 80 's and trust me I will never touch them the just to nice ,the waiting to go in to my skymaster mig 29 so bad I don't have time to finish ,maybe this winter.
Old 10-05-2014, 08:19 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Gaspar
There is one thing that is forgotten on this discussion, that is the warranty.

If you do the repair yourself, and the engine fails at second flight, you cannot complain, but if the engine has been serviced by a company, you will expect that the engine be rebuilt for free if the failure has been caused by improper assembly.

Repairs aren't a profitable business. Don't know all manufacturers but at JetsMunt, labor is always a flat rate of 60EUR for repairs that don't need full disassembly, and a flat rate of 150EUR for all other repairs. Total is these 150EUR + the parts replaced. These 150EUR (190USD) pay for the labor, the premises, balancer, tools, training... but also pay for the warranty that legally should be given for all repairs, at least here in Europe.

Gaspar
Gaspar, I don't think anyone can complain about those rates........can they?
Old 10-05-2014, 08:55 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by jetster81
Gaspar, I don't think anyone can complain about those rates........can they?
Well.... really don't have many complains, and these usually come from customers who bought his first turbine used and received a engine older and more used than what they where told. Don't have data of this year, but average repair cost on 2013 was of 375EUR.

The most expensive repair we have done was on a burned engine (pictures below), where the repair was 550EUR less than a new one, so customer choose to fix it.

Gaspar

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