What are some of your favort jet Servos and why?
11-19-2014, 06:49 AM
#1
What are some of your favort jet Servos and why?
Ok, as one who has moved up to turbine jets from larg war birds I have come to relize that there is a real differance in the equipment used.
In the war bird world, you will see peaple flying 110in birds with muti cylinders motors with HS645 (133oz analog) to JR8711 (400oz digital)
On the larger Imac/3d planes 110in you see the same but diffrent peaple useing HK servos to the massvie JR8711 or HS 7955 or bigger, but when I read the reviews of these JR8711 and read about the bad servo gear lash within a sort time or the issues "some" have had with the HS7955 It seems a lot harder to pick a upper end servo.
When I ask my local flying buddes it there choses all relate to there past exsperaces, (I have been useing JR since JR has been in the US) , my best jet buddy almost always uses HK servos but this makes me feel uneasy, But as someone who has only been fly for 3 1/2 years I dont have any past relastion with servos or there companys.
And to make it worse almost every jet I have has diffrent company servos,
IE, my Skymaster F15 has all Hitec HS5645 and HS7955, my Carf Eurosport has Spectrum 6030 all around, my Carf rookie has 444oz Savox servos, and for the reason for this posting, the Velox XL I just picked up had all JR servos in ( I got it with no servos but was told if I did not use JR8711 the jet would self destruct at the speeds it flys, but the manufactor seems to recomend any digital servos over 150oz)
I guess thats were I find the jet part of this hobby odd, In large IMAC they need there huge servos becouse they truly are moveing very large control areas with a lot of deflection, War bird guys fly at such lower speeds and low deflection compaired to jets I see why some get a way with HS645 vs JR8711
But I understand that our jets have very wide speed ranges and depending upon the design most of the time have low deflections, except for full flying stabs and delta wings.
So Im going to start ordering my servos for this Velox Xl, but Im not sure which servos to get as I am some what budget effected.
So I ask if the manufactor calls for digital servos at least of 150oz, what are some of your fav servos that fall in this catagory? As Im going to need 8 new servos (ali, flaps, 2 elevator, 2 rudder)
I was thinking of Savox SC-0251 as there digital/mg and have more than needed power and are around $40 X8 =$320
Savox SC-0251
Speed(@6.0V sec/60): .18Torque(@6.0V oz-in): 222.2
I have had good luck with these on my Eurosport at $72 X8 = $576 big price diffrance from the Savox.
Spectrum 6030
Digital 278oz/ 0.15 sec
I have these in my F15, one dose seem to have more gear nose than the other, but so far no issues. but at $99 each even with tower discount will be around $780 this is out of my current budget.
Hitec HS7955
Digital 333/ .15
So what MG / Digital servos do you guys like around 150oz or above and still being some what price wise.
Thanks guys.
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In the war bird world, you will see peaple flying 110in birds with muti cylinders motors with HS645 (133oz analog) to JR8711 (400oz digital)
On the larger Imac/3d planes 110in you see the same but diffrent peaple useing HK servos to the massvie JR8711 or HS 7955 or bigger, but when I read the reviews of these JR8711 and read about the bad servo gear lash within a sort time or the issues "some" have had with the HS7955 It seems a lot harder to pick a upper end servo.
When I ask my local flying buddes it there choses all relate to there past exsperaces, (I have been useing JR since JR has been in the US) , my best jet buddy almost always uses HK servos but this makes me feel uneasy, But as someone who has only been fly for 3 1/2 years I dont have any past relastion with servos or there companys.
And to make it worse almost every jet I have has diffrent company servos,
IE, my Skymaster F15 has all Hitec HS5645 and HS7955, my Carf Eurosport has Spectrum 6030 all around, my Carf rookie has 444oz Savox servos, and for the reason for this posting, the Velox XL I just picked up had all JR servos in ( I got it with no servos but was told if I did not use JR8711 the jet would self destruct at the speeds it flys, but the manufactor seems to recomend any digital servos over 150oz)
I guess thats were I find the jet part of this hobby odd, In large IMAC they need there huge servos becouse they truly are moveing very large control areas with a lot of deflection, War bird guys fly at such lower speeds and low deflection compaired to jets I see why some get a way with HS645 vs JR8711
But I understand that our jets have very wide speed ranges and depending upon the design most of the time have low deflections, except for full flying stabs and delta wings.
So Im going to start ordering my servos for this Velox Xl, but Im not sure which servos to get as I am some what budget effected.
So I ask if the manufactor calls for digital servos at least of 150oz, what are some of your fav servos that fall in this catagory? As Im going to need 8 new servos (ali, flaps, 2 elevator, 2 rudder)
I was thinking of Savox SC-0251 as there digital/mg and have more than needed power and are around $40 X8 =$320
Savox SC-0251
Speed(@6.0V sec/60): .18Torque(@6.0V oz-in): 222.2
I have had good luck with these on my Eurosport at $72 X8 = $576 big price diffrance from the Savox.
Spectrum 6030
Digital 278oz/ 0.15 sec
I have these in my F15, one dose seem to have more gear nose than the other, but so far no issues. but at $99 each even with tower discount will be around $780 this is out of my current budget.
Hitec HS7955
Digital 333/ .15
So what MG / Digital servos do you guys like around 150oz or above and still being some what price wise.
Thanks guys.
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11-19-2014, 07:45 AM
#3
Thanks I love jr servos too. Im not trying to go cheap but the most reasonable
I love my JetCats but I love my Kingtec just as much and there is a pretty big price difference there
So I guess im looking for the kingtec of servos. Lol not the JetJo
I have read the velox xl build threads and not a lot of info on servos used. I know this bird is fast. (Which is crazy to me due to its size) I will be useing a k140
11-19-2014, 08:01 AM
#6
I really like the Sovox servos thus far in my Rookie and 110in Krill Katana, but I still feel like the new kid on the block, and I know I dont know it all so Im just looking for sugestions on your guys fav 150-200+ oz MG/Dig servos that you guys like and have great results with..
11-19-2014, 08:55 AM
#7
Hitec 7980, 7955, 7985, 5645, 5245, 5125 Thin wing, 5085 well over 60 servos of Hitec with out problems. Have also used JR 8411 with great results.
I would not hesitate in using Hitec, JR, and Futaba for my jets. As a matter of fact no matter what else ever comes out and how good they mite be I would not personally try any other brand. Why? I have tried cheaper brands in the past and it cost be double as I had to replace them. Just my opinion.
I would not hesitate in using Hitec, JR, and Futaba for my jets. As a matter of fact no matter what else ever comes out and how good they mite be I would not personally try any other brand. Why? I have tried cheaper brands in the past and it cost be double as I had to replace them. Just my opinion.
11-19-2014, 09:07 AM
#8
Never had an issue with JR 4131's, 8231's, 2721's, 8411's and 8611's.
We tend to way overpower the surfaces on our jets. I've read the servo charts that state this much torque required for this size surface and blah blah blah with big fancy equations etc. When I look at real world applications and the servo's we used to use on jets, or pylon racers, or whatever, the torque is far less.
Now having said that it won't hurt you to use more torque. Tom Cooks original Firebird uses 8231's on the ailerons, in the meantime, if you were to ask on this forum today what was needed everyone would tell you 8711's or better. My very first Kangaroo used one 8411 on each elevon. Never had an issue. When the composite one came out people said 2 8611's for the split elevons when it's likely that even just an 8231 would have sufficed.
So what am I saying? I'm saying that sometimes, we spend money on higher end that is completely unneccesary. I agree that I would never cheap out on servo's in a jet, HK servo's will never find their way into my shop for fear of the sh*tty rubbing off, however, I would never spend the extra money for an 8911HV when an 8411 will work perfectly fine in it's place. The firebird is one of if not the fastest conventional jet around still. It has a full flying stab that is very large and that stab is moved as one piece. One servo does all the work. That servo is only 278oz/in @6volts but it is more than enough. Tom designed the stab around the multiplex (now hitec 5765 servo for the bullet proof gear train. If you were to ask again in the forum today, people would tell you that you need 2x 8711's for that surface. So you spend $300 on 2 servo's where one $100 servo does the job.
My personal opinion is buy the BEST servo you can for the intended purpose. I see digital servo's being used on retract valves and brake valves. That is money foolishly spent.
We tend to way overpower the surfaces on our jets. I've read the servo charts that state this much torque required for this size surface and blah blah blah with big fancy equations etc. When I look at real world applications and the servo's we used to use on jets, or pylon racers, or whatever, the torque is far less.
Now having said that it won't hurt you to use more torque. Tom Cooks original Firebird uses 8231's on the ailerons, in the meantime, if you were to ask on this forum today what was needed everyone would tell you 8711's or better. My very first Kangaroo used one 8411 on each elevon. Never had an issue. When the composite one came out people said 2 8611's for the split elevons when it's likely that even just an 8231 would have sufficed.
So what am I saying? I'm saying that sometimes, we spend money on higher end that is completely unneccesary. I agree that I would never cheap out on servo's in a jet, HK servo's will never find their way into my shop for fear of the sh*tty rubbing off, however, I would never spend the extra money for an 8911HV when an 8411 will work perfectly fine in it's place. The firebird is one of if not the fastest conventional jet around still. It has a full flying stab that is very large and that stab is moved as one piece. One servo does all the work. That servo is only 278oz/in @6volts but it is more than enough. Tom designed the stab around the multiplex (now hitec 5765 servo for the bullet proof gear train. If you were to ask again in the forum today, people would tell you that you need 2x 8711's for that surface. So you spend $300 on 2 servo's where one $100 servo does the job.
My personal opinion is buy the BEST servo you can for the intended purpose. I see digital servo's being used on retract valves and brake valves. That is money foolishly spent.
11-19-2014, 11:25 AM
#10
Umm....
A couple of thoughts here as I'm playing with jets now as well after having flown IMAC birds and more recently Pattern. I kind of cracks me up when people say you need big servos for 3D when there is actually very little load there nor much of a need to center well. If you want to fly IMAC, you need a big servo that's pretty quick and has good centering. If you want to fly Pattern, the servos need to be smooth and center extremely well that's basically why you never see a metal gear servo in a Pattern plane.
I've used my share of Hitec servos; anything that starts with a "5" in the servo number is basically really old technology and represents Hitec's first foray into the digital servo market. The 5625's and 5645's are some of the worst servos I've ever run into for power, speed, centering and they are a witch to program. The 5955's are not much better and have a very high torque loss as they warm up from use. The "7" series are pretty good servos with the exception of the 7950 which is the one that caused Hitec all the hell with the jittering.
Not used a lot of Futaba servos as I had some issues with those initially particularly with the 9206's which had a nasty habit of stripping the primary gear even in situations where they were rated for way more model than what they were installed in. The others I'd used didn't amount to much as it was when I first started out so they were small and inexpensive analog servos. I've recently moved back to Futaba radio systems and have some of their servos in one jet and they seem okay so far, but it's a sport jet designed for precision aerobatics and really won't go very fast. The thing I hate so far is that Futaba servos are the most expensive of the bunch by quite a margin. I'm not sure that Sbus and HV capability justify the really high price difference as I've not even tried the Sbus thing yet.
JR is what you'll find in almost every Pattern plane you see. Tight deadband, more than any other brand. Excellent centering, pretty damn quick, and yes they will require replacing the gear sets occasionally due to that deadband. Then you wonder what JR is doing with the servo line up? I just tried to track down some 8711's with no luck. Then I looked for 8911HV's (I want to go straight LiPo this time) and those were not readily available but I finally found some for the new Shockwave. If you look at the newer slow start servos from JR over on the JR Americas website, those things cost as much as the Futaba's and there are none of the older servos which still come from Horizon.
I cannot speak to Savox or MKS as I've never used those brands but people I know and respect speak highly of the Savox brand, the Spektrums and some the MKS. But I'm NOT using a servo I don't have complete confidence in, for any of my more expensive models.
So what's all this drivel boil down to for me or possibly an answer for you? Ain't nobody builds a servo with a tighter deadband or better centering than JR. IMHO, a jet at speed will benefit from both those qualities.
A couple of thoughts here as I'm playing with jets now as well after having flown IMAC birds and more recently Pattern. I kind of cracks me up when people say you need big servos for 3D when there is actually very little load there nor much of a need to center well. If you want to fly IMAC, you need a big servo that's pretty quick and has good centering. If you want to fly Pattern, the servos need to be smooth and center extremely well that's basically why you never see a metal gear servo in a Pattern plane.
I've used my share of Hitec servos; anything that starts with a "5" in the servo number is basically really old technology and represents Hitec's first foray into the digital servo market. The 5625's and 5645's are some of the worst servos I've ever run into for power, speed, centering and they are a witch to program. The 5955's are not much better and have a very high torque loss as they warm up from use. The "7" series are pretty good servos with the exception of the 7950 which is the one that caused Hitec all the hell with the jittering.
Not used a lot of Futaba servos as I had some issues with those initially particularly with the 9206's which had a nasty habit of stripping the primary gear even in situations where they were rated for way more model than what they were installed in. The others I'd used didn't amount to much as it was when I first started out so they were small and inexpensive analog servos. I've recently moved back to Futaba radio systems and have some of their servos in one jet and they seem okay so far, but it's a sport jet designed for precision aerobatics and really won't go very fast. The thing I hate so far is that Futaba servos are the most expensive of the bunch by quite a margin. I'm not sure that Sbus and HV capability justify the really high price difference as I've not even tried the Sbus thing yet.
JR is what you'll find in almost every Pattern plane you see. Tight deadband, more than any other brand. Excellent centering, pretty damn quick, and yes they will require replacing the gear sets occasionally due to that deadband. Then you wonder what JR is doing with the servo line up? I just tried to track down some 8711's with no luck. Then I looked for 8911HV's (I want to go straight LiPo this time) and those were not readily available but I finally found some for the new Shockwave. If you look at the newer slow start servos from JR over on the JR Americas website, those things cost as much as the Futaba's and there are none of the older servos which still come from Horizon.
I cannot speak to Savox or MKS as I've never used those brands but people I know and respect speak highly of the Savox brand, the Spektrums and some the MKS. But I'm NOT using a servo I don't have complete confidence in, for any of my more expensive models.
So what's all this drivel boil down to for me or possibly an answer for you? Ain't nobody builds a servo with a tighter deadband or better centering than JR. IMHO, a jet at speed will benefit from both those qualities.
Last edited by Zeeb; 11-19-2014 at 11:29 AM.
11-19-2014, 12:55 PM
#12
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hitek's on mine zero problems since 2008, I have always wondered how many servo factory's there are and how many brands they make servo for, it cannot be worth starting a factory just to make your own servos so where are they, and do they make parts for all servos? is there really much difference inside the cases
11-19-2014, 01:05 PM
#13
hitek's on mine zero problems since 2008, I have always wondered how many servo factory's there are and how many brands they make servo for, it cannot be worth starting a factory just to make your own servos so where are they, and do they make parts for all servos? is there really much difference inside the cases
What is crazy is hk sells servos that mach the specs of some of the big boys at 1\4 the cost and still make a profit
11-19-2014, 01:45 PM
#14
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like most things jet related they are overpriced and we just think that is normal now so when hk sells something that is 1/4 the price we think that they are inferior quality that why I posted above hk don't make their own servos so who is making them and do they make for other brands as well? I have had no problems with hk metal geared digital servos on a 50cc 3d machine its just the little voice in your head that thinks that high prices mean the highest quality but as we have seen with hk receivers that are as good as the big brands
11-19-2014, 02:42 PM
#15
Come to a UK jet meeting and look at 100 Jets, I bet 80% have JR servos in them and there is a good reason for that. It might be more than 80%! I sell between 1500-2000 high end JR servos per year and that gives me all the info I need. Gear play worries amuse me so much, I sold less than 25 gear sets total last year, so its obviously a huge problem! Not.
Servo reliability is amazing through all ranges/manufacturers, but there are number games on those used, I see Petrol models with 200+ flights on JR servos and for many people that's way over a models life! The way a new servo is treated from the box has the biggest bearing/influence on its life. Some people are just animals with zero mechanical/electrical sympathy, they will get failures with any make, they had "issues with Mhz radios and still do with Ghz...
Dave
Servo reliability is amazing through all ranges/manufacturers, but there are number games on those used, I see Petrol models with 200+ flights on JR servos and for many people that's way over a models life! The way a new servo is treated from the box has the biggest bearing/influence on its life. Some people are just animals with zero mechanical/electrical sympathy, they will get failures with any make, they had "issues with Mhz radios and still do with Ghz...
Dave
11-19-2014, 03:49 PM
#17
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How fast is the typical jet...when verified by onboard GPS telemetry..??
11-19-2014, 06:34 PM
#18
Im useing 2 Sovox SA1231 servos at 444oz at 6v. On my Rookie 2 as I made each elevon from 2 servos to one per side. I beat my Rookie hard with my JetCat p120 and 4 axis exsaust im also useing one on the front conards as I make them flip to 80deg as a air brake.
11-19-2014, 07:27 PM
#19
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Never had an issue with JR 4131's, 8231's, 2721's, 8411's and 8611's.
We tend to way overpower the surfaces on our jets. I've read the servo charts that state this much torque required for this size surface and blah blah blah with big fancy equations etc. When I look at real world applications and the servo's we used to use on jets, or pylon racers, or whatever, the torque is far less.
Now having said that it won't hurt you to use more torque. Tom Cooks original Firebird uses 8231's on the ailerons, in the meantime, if you were to ask on this forum today what was needed everyone would tell you 8711's or better. My very first Kangaroo used one 8411 on each elevon. Never had an issue. When the composite one came out people said 2 8611's for the split elevons when it's likely that even just an 8231 would have sufficed.
So what am I saying? I'm saying that sometimes, we spend money on higher end that is completely unneccesary. I agree that I would never cheap out on servo's in a jet, HK servo's will never find their way into my shop for fear of the sh*tty rubbing off, however, I would never spend the extra money for an 8911HV when an 8411 will work perfectly fine in it's place. The firebird is one of if not the fastest conventional jet around still. It has a full flying stab that is very large and that stab is moved as one piece. One servo does all the work. That servo is only 278oz/in @6volts but it is more than enough. Tom designed the stab around the multiplex (now hitec 5765 servo for the bullet proof gear train. If you were to ask again in the forum today, people would tell you that you need 2x 8711's for that surface. So you spend $300 on 2 servo's where one $100 servo does the job.
My personal opinion is buy the BEST servo you can for the intended purpose. I see digital servo's being used on retract valves and brake valves. That is money foolishly spent.
We tend to way overpower the surfaces on our jets. I've read the servo charts that state this much torque required for this size surface and blah blah blah with big fancy equations etc. When I look at real world applications and the servo's we used to use on jets, or pylon racers, or whatever, the torque is far less.
Now having said that it won't hurt you to use more torque. Tom Cooks original Firebird uses 8231's on the ailerons, in the meantime, if you were to ask on this forum today what was needed everyone would tell you 8711's or better. My very first Kangaroo used one 8411 on each elevon. Never had an issue. When the composite one came out people said 2 8611's for the split elevons when it's likely that even just an 8231 would have sufficed.
So what am I saying? I'm saying that sometimes, we spend money on higher end that is completely unneccesary. I agree that I would never cheap out on servo's in a jet, HK servo's will never find their way into my shop for fear of the sh*tty rubbing off, however, I would never spend the extra money for an 8911HV when an 8411 will work perfectly fine in it's place. The firebird is one of if not the fastest conventional jet around still. It has a full flying stab that is very large and that stab is moved as one piece. One servo does all the work. That servo is only 278oz/in @6volts but it is more than enough. Tom designed the stab around the multiplex (now hitec 5765 servo for the bullet proof gear train. If you were to ask again in the forum today, people would tell you that you need 2x 8711's for that surface. So you spend $300 on 2 servo's where one $100 servo does the job.
My personal opinion is buy the BEST servo you can for the intended purpose. I see digital servo's being used on retract valves and brake valves. That is money foolishly spent.
Mate, you are sooooo very, very right.........
I started flying turbines back in 1997 with an AMT Pegasus Mk2 (which I still own) - it had 10kgs of thrust. Back then I only used Multiplex servo's and mainly the Mirco BB and the Profi BB on my control surfaces...neither was half as powerful as a JR8411. But, my point being......I am still flying some of those models (as built then) today and just love listening to pilots at the field commenting on what should or should not get used on similar models today.
So yes, I am with you on this one 100%. However, I also agree with Dave W - today I only put (appropriate) JR servo's into all my new jets ......and command them from my Futaba 18MZ......via my Robbe S-bus or PowerBox gadgets.....LOL.
Cheers,
Jan
11-19-2014, 07:35 PM
#20
Jeremy,
You hit it on the head. Whatever the servo with the most torque on the market at a given time soon becomes the minimum requirement for our jets. Then you see guys flying 400 mph gliders with 80 ounce servos on critical surfaces.... Or, better yet, you remember what you had in your fastest DF jet (like my 200mph Starfire) before digital servos. Yeah, Futaba S148's and Airtronics 94102's. I never had a problem at all with those 48 ounce servos on the elevators of my 200 mph DF. But today, I wouldn't dream of doing that?
You hit it on the head. Whatever the servo with the most torque on the market at a given time soon becomes the minimum requirement for our jets. Then you see guys flying 400 mph gliders with 80 ounce servos on critical surfaces.... Or, better yet, you remember what you had in your fastest DF jet (like my 200mph Starfire) before digital servos. Yeah, Futaba S148's and Airtronics 94102's. I never had a problem at all with those 48 ounce servos on the elevators of my 200 mph DF. But today, I wouldn't dream of doing that?
11-19-2014, 07:42 PM
#21
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Jeremy,
You hit it on the head. Whatever the servo with the most torque on the market at a given time soon becomes the minimum requirement for our jets. Then you see guys flying 400 mph gliders with 80 ounce servos on critical surfaces.... Or, better yet, you remember what you had in your fastest DF jet (like my 200mph Starfire) before digital servos. Yeah, Futaba S148's and Airtronics 94102's. I never had a problem at all with those 48 ounce servos on the elevators of my 200 mph DF. But today, I wouldn't dream of doing that?
You hit it on the head. Whatever the servo with the most torque on the market at a given time soon becomes the minimum requirement for our jets. Then you see guys flying 400 mph gliders with 80 ounce servos on critical surfaces.... Or, better yet, you remember what you had in your fastest DF jet (like my 200mph Starfire) before digital servos. Yeah, Futaba S148's and Airtronics 94102's. I never had a problem at all with those 48 ounce servos on the elevators of my 200 mph DF. But today, I wouldn't dream of doing that?
+1 .....again
11-20-2014, 01:55 AM
#23
I've been using Savox 1256 since they came to UK about five years ago in all my jets with no issues, fine servo's for the money, probably overkill but at the price I don't care.
11-20-2014, 09:31 AM
#24
Jeremy,
You hit it on the head. Whatever the servo with the most torque on the market at a given time soon becomes the minimum requirement for our jets. Then you see guys flying 400 mph gliders with 80 ounce servos on critical surfaces.... Or, better yet, you remember what you had in your fastest DF jet (like my 200mph Starfire) before digital servos. Yeah, Futaba S148's and Airtronics 94102's. I never had a problem at all with those 48 ounce servos on the elevators of my 200 mph DF. But today, I wouldn't dream of doing that?
You hit it on the head. Whatever the servo with the most torque on the market at a given time soon becomes the minimum requirement for our jets. Then you see guys flying 400 mph gliders with 80 ounce servos on critical surfaces.... Or, better yet, you remember what you had in your fastest DF jet (like my 200mph Starfire) before digital servos. Yeah, Futaba S148's and Airtronics 94102's. I never had a problem at all with those 48 ounce servos on the elevators of my 200 mph DF. But today, I wouldn't dream of doing that?
Yup, even in 1998, my first ducted fan was a DL Aeromodels Cyclone with a Dynamax fan and an OS91 with Shadel Piston and liner. It wasn't 200mph, but it flew perfectly fine with JR NES531 plain jane ball bearing 55oz servo's on ALL the surfaces. I remember flying Formula one and Q40 planes with 30oz servo's on the elevator that got yanked hard every couple seconds too!
Today there are charts and equations that tell me those airplanes should have had at a minimum 120oz servo's...... There was a time we all trusted NiMh batteries in our airplanes too. I still do. K.I.S.S sometimes really is the best way.
11-20-2014, 09:47 AM
#25
My Feedback: (66)
I think guys think they are Gucci Boys flying jets and have to spend the most money they can on servos and so on. I have had high end JR servos fail multi times in my race planes yet the 20 dollar servo from HK with same specs hasnt failed yet.
I think with most servos and batteries you need to cycle them several times before use to make sure they are good to go.
I also see guys with 300 dollar airplanes and still have a 15 dollar switch, but do we realy need that 200 dollar switch? I think it comes down to routine maintence on our planes. Know your equipment.
I think with most servos and batteries you need to cycle them several times before use to make sure they are good to go.
I also see guys with 300 dollar airplanes and still have a 15 dollar switch, but do we realy need that 200 dollar switch? I think it comes down to routine maintence on our planes. Know your equipment.
