First Impression of new I gyro 3E ( Flying )
02-14-2015, 06:23 PM
#101
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Just got done flying a friends new P140RXI powered Avanti with the IG3... Very nice.... 40% clean gain and 70% dirty.... 15% expo all around... Nice combo... Works as good as my Cortex...
02-14-2015, 11:46 PM
#102
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Johan
1st Powerbox has a fantastic help forum with the designer answering questions! As always the best source will be him.
But. Some of them I can answer, dual rudders, only with a Y lead, or only having the gyro on one rudder (works great)
You can Y lead some things like you say, but the Elster team use an iGyro SRS and a Futaba heading hold heli gyro on the canards
The iGyro 3e is a low cost aeroplane gyro, CARF J-10 is a top line competition winning airframe that is quite complicated.
I guess it comes down to what radio you use.
Dave
One thing I would say is the vector quite often uses 100% gain and the rudder won't!
1st Powerbox has a fantastic help forum with the designer answering questions! As always the best source will be him.
But. Some of them I can answer, dual rudders, only with a Y lead, or only having the gyro on one rudder (works great)
You can Y lead some things like you say, but the Elster team use an iGyro SRS and a Futaba heading hold heli gyro on the canards
The iGyro 3e is a low cost aeroplane gyro, CARF J-10 is a top line competition winning airframe that is quite complicated.
I guess it comes down to what radio you use.
Dave
One thing I would say is the vector quite often uses 100% gain and the rudder won't!
02-15-2015, 01:44 PM
#104
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Going back to the twin engine case.....
Finger trouble and general ineptitude meant I flew my small skymaster A10 for an entire flight today with one engine at idle and the gyro only available with the rudder on heading hold.
It certainly didn't fly it for me, i had to feed a lot of rudder in the turns to control the yaw.
As i didn't know why it was behaving oddly until after landing, i didn't have the chance to fly it without the gyro to compare.
The second flight was with both engines, but still with the gyro either on or with rudder heading hold active. Top tip- never try and land with heading hold on the rudder on, I really thought i might lose it as the planes nose was still heading base leg when i was rolling onto finals- Not very nice!
Finger trouble and general ineptitude meant I flew my small skymaster A10 for an entire flight today with one engine at idle and the gyro only available with the rudder on heading hold.
It certainly didn't fly it for me, i had to feed a lot of rudder in the turns to control the yaw.
As i didn't know why it was behaving oddly until after landing, i didn't have the chance to fly it without the gyro to compare.
The second flight was with both engines, but still with the gyro either on or with rudder heading hold active. Top tip- never try and land with heading hold on the rudder on, I really thought i might lose it as the planes nose was still heading base leg when i was rolling onto finals- Not very nice!
02-15-2015, 02:12 PM
#105
This is how I understand the iGyro 3E: "Heading Hold" (or both modes for that matter) on the Igyro3E only operates the rudder in "rate". The mode that is called "heading hold" is a badly named mode. The rudder never locks a "heading" via yaw in this gyro, ever. It only acts on "rate" for rudder dampening, in both modes of operation. Now, in the "heading hold" mode, it will lock the bank and pitch in a specific attitude if you have the rates cranked up in that mode. But the rudder in either mode is always just on "rate" to dampen large scale deviations as they occur, if not commanded by the rudder control from the transmitter. I wish they would have called the gryo modes "rate" and "attitude" to simplify the understanding of them better.
Looking at your post again I see you were mentioning the model's behavior was when you had both engines operating. OK, then I might think the base turn was flown in a manner where you probably would bank the model and then perhaps you have some sort of normal "pull" via the elevator to make the turn (the horizonatal component of lift as they say). With the gyro on "heading hold" I think the model will tend to hold bank and pitch while biasing out any normal aerodynamic tenadancy to pitch toward the canopy and make the gradual turn toward the runway. It will indeed act a little differently but it will not lock the "heading" with the rudder. I like flying in general in "normal" mode (the rate mode) and I typically just use "heading hold" for air work up high to experiment with. I have not tried an approach with it but I could easily see how it would be uncomfortable watching the model fly like an arrow banked at 30 degrees but not pulling through when you expect it to pitch through a base leg turn. On "heading hold" there will be no "pitching" through anything, the pitch is locked in. It's locked into an attitude and G. In your case, a 1G state, not a 1.5G, 45 degree bank that will get you pointed toward the runway. Just my thoughts. "Rate" mode is nice for normal pattern work.
Looking at your post again I see you were mentioning the model's behavior was when you had both engines operating. OK, then I might think the base turn was flown in a manner where you probably would bank the model and then perhaps you have some sort of normal "pull" via the elevator to make the turn (the horizonatal component of lift as they say). With the gyro on "heading hold" I think the model will tend to hold bank and pitch while biasing out any normal aerodynamic tenadancy to pitch toward the canopy and make the gradual turn toward the runway. It will indeed act a little differently but it will not lock the "heading" with the rudder. I like flying in general in "normal" mode (the rate mode) and I typically just use "heading hold" for air work up high to experiment with. I have not tried an approach with it but I could easily see how it would be uncomfortable watching the model fly like an arrow banked at 30 degrees but not pulling through when you expect it to pitch through a base leg turn. On "heading hold" there will be no "pitching" through anything, the pitch is locked in. It's locked into an attitude and G. In your case, a 1G state, not a 1.5G, 45 degree bank that will get you pointed toward the runway. Just my thoughts. "Rate" mode is nice for normal pattern work.
Last edited by Eddie P; 02-15-2015 at 02:23 PM.
02-15-2015, 02:21 PM
#106
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Quite Eddie, it was an interesting day out- learnt a lot, mainly from stupid mistakes, and its reassuring to have flown it single engine, and seen how the model behaved, albeit with the assistance of a badly setup gyro.
To add to the knowledge base of the stupid thing i did.....
I thought the rudder heading hold only acted in the flight mode 2 position.
I had my FM switch at position 1 and altered the heading hold value manually, increasing it from zero to 20%.
That meant i either had FM 0, gyro off, FM 1, gyro on with heading hold active and FM3, which usually is rudder heading hold rather than rate mode.
The lesson,
If you're manually increasing gain values, make sure you take note which position the FM selector switch is in!
To add to the knowledge base of the stupid thing i did.....
I thought the rudder heading hold only acted in the flight mode 2 position.
I had my FM switch at position 1 and altered the heading hold value manually, increasing it from zero to 20%.
That meant i either had FM 0, gyro off, FM 1, gyro on with heading hold active and FM3, which usually is rudder heading hold rather than rate mode.
The lesson,
If you're manually increasing gain values, make sure you take note which position the FM selector switch is in!
02-15-2015, 02:29 PM
#107
You obviously did well to fly around one engine caged and just only thinking it was behaving oddly! Well done on the recovery. Humorous to a Yank to see the stiff upper lip, British understatement in action, too 
I've learned a bit more about the gyro from your story too, thanks for that.
I've learned a bit more about the gyro from your story too, thanks for that.
02-16-2015, 03:45 AM
#108
I have not tried an approach with it but I could easily see how it would be uncomfortable watching the model fly like an arrow banked at 30 degrees but not pulling through when you expect it to pitch through a base leg turn. On "heading hold" there will be no "pitching" through anything, the pitch is locked in. It's locked into an attitude and G. In your case, a 1G state, not a 1.5G, 45 degree bank that will get you pointed toward the runway. Just my thoughts. "Rate" mode is nice for normal pattern work.[/QUOTE]
Hello Eddie,
I did try the HH mode and i do feel even though its suppose to maintain the bank and pitch attitude, that was not exactly how the plane behaved. As bank was increased it did need elevator input too. Maybe something PB designed to give a realistic feel during flight.
Ofcourse i was only using around 30% gain, but the A/C had a bit of oscillation when gain was increased a notch higher.
Something like the fly by wire Airbus which also operates on similar principle.
Chatty.
Hello Eddie,
I did try the HH mode and i do feel even though its suppose to maintain the bank and pitch attitude, that was not exactly how the plane behaved. As bank was increased it did need elevator input too. Maybe something PB designed to give a realistic feel during flight.
Ofcourse i was only using around 30% gain, but the A/C had a bit of oscillation when gain was increased a notch higher.
Something like the fly by wire Airbus which also operates on similar principle.
Chatty.
02-16-2015, 07:32 AM
#110
02-18-2015, 04:09 AM
#111
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Full flexibility though, no limit but the 5 channels
02-18-2015, 04:19 AM
#112
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Question for those with the gyro, I'm building/overhauling a Skymaster hawk (small one) and it has a reputation for dropping a wing if you get it too slow. Will the gyro dampen the wing drop, and/or does it dampen out models that rock their wings when they get close to stalling?
In my case it might make it safer, but I could see how if the gyro dampens stall warning out it could potentially lead to an awkward situation. So I guess I'm asking how they respond in these situations?
thanks
dave
In my case it might make it safer, but I could see how if the gyro dampens stall warning out it could potentially lead to an awkward situation. So I guess I'm asking how they respond in these situations?
thanks
dave
02-18-2015, 04:22 AM
#113
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I asked the question on the Powerbox forum and the answer was no. The suggestion was to use only one rudder with the gyro… As it happened it was not an issue for me as I was incorrect in thinking one rudder needed reversing. I did find it difficult to set the 3E up though. The factory gains were reduced to 30% from the 100% on elevator and the ailerons were reduced to 70%. Then the TX gain was reduced to 50%, any higher and things got in a flap… So I guess that means my Bobcat needs 15% gain on elevator and 50% on rudders.
Jason
Jason
02-18-2015, 04:42 AM
#114
Dave,
I just flew a small SM Hawk for the first time, and I have a Cortex fitted. I had an experienced pilot do the first flight, and it dropped a (right) wing immediately on take-off but he caught it. The rest of the flight was fine. I did flights 2 & 3 and take-offs were fine with a gentle rotation, but I did deliberately investigate the potential wing drop at altitude in both a wings level stall and a Wind Up Turn. In both cases it violently dropped a (right) wing. In the WUT, from a left turn with about 90deg bank, it completely rolled over the top but recovered immediately upon releasing back pressure.
I did not have the wing fences installed for those flights, but I am now in the process of fitting them, and the VGs. I have also added some aileron reflex (crow) when pulling more than 50% aft stick, to help avoid the tip stalling. I will investigate again when I next fly it.
The gyro wont stop the wing drop, but it may help to dampen it out. It may actually make things worse as when the gyro puts in down aileron to counter the drop, it actually increases the local AoA of that wing, putting it further into the stall. That's probably a minor effect though.
From the 2 flights I've had so far, the gyro certainly made the plane rock solid apart from when I provoked it.
Regards,
Paul
I just flew a small SM Hawk for the first time, and I have a Cortex fitted. I had an experienced pilot do the first flight, and it dropped a (right) wing immediately on take-off but he caught it. The rest of the flight was fine. I did flights 2 & 3 and take-offs were fine with a gentle rotation, but I did deliberately investigate the potential wing drop at altitude in both a wings level stall and a Wind Up Turn. In both cases it violently dropped a (right) wing. In the WUT, from a left turn with about 90deg bank, it completely rolled over the top but recovered immediately upon releasing back pressure.
I did not have the wing fences installed for those flights, but I am now in the process of fitting them, and the VGs. I have also added some aileron reflex (crow) when pulling more than 50% aft stick, to help avoid the tip stalling. I will investigate again when I next fly it.
The gyro wont stop the wing drop, but it may help to dampen it out. It may actually make things worse as when the gyro puts in down aileron to counter the drop, it actually increases the local AoA of that wing, putting it further into the stall. That's probably a minor effect though.
From the 2 flights I've had so far, the gyro certainly made the plane rock solid apart from when I provoked it.
Regards,
Paul
02-18-2015, 10:15 AM
#115
Jason's questions were answered directly as my customer. But as he says Y lead or single rudder. People need to remember the cost difference...
Chatty, yes on the PC with your USB lead. To get the best out of this gyro you need one, its not included, as most PB people already have one, so no need to pay twice.
I know the SM Hawk is quite a bit heavier than the CARF version, have you weighed the wings? Probably a gyro is worse as it will sort the initial wing instability before the wing stops working completely. Fences are must on all Hawks!
Always best to fully test fly and sort an aeroplane before adding a gyro
Dave
Chatty, yes on the PC with your USB lead. To get the best out of this gyro you need one, its not included, as most PB people already have one, so no need to pay twice.
I know the SM Hawk is quite a bit heavier than the CARF version, have you weighed the wings? Probably a gyro is worse as it will sort the initial wing instability before the wing stops working completely. Fences are must on all Hawks!
Always best to fully test fly and sort an aeroplane before adding a gyro
Dave
.
02-18-2015, 12:19 PM
#117
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Chatty if you wanted to find the optimum gains for each surface then you need to do at least one flight per surface. You also have to plug it in the laptop in between flights, I did mine this the other day and it honestly took 10 flights to get it right. Lets say you are lucky enough to have a model that needs the same gain on all three axis then the 3e has a great way to program the gyro. But if you have a model like my Bobcat which needs lots of changes I think the older Igyro's way of setting all three axis independently in one flight is way better.
Jason
Jason
02-19-2015, 05:41 AM
#119
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JSF, thanks for the heads up and how theSM hawk reacted with the gyro. I'm planning on the wing fences, VG's and flap fairings to be installed before my first flight with it. If would be great if you could post some more info on the SM hawk 1:5.5 thread!
dave, good advise re: sorted model first. My maiden will not be for at least another month or so, but will keeping my eye on this thread in the mean time, and get it sorted first.
thanks
dave
dave, good advise re: sorted model first. My maiden will not be for at least another month or so, but will keeping my eye on this thread in the mean time, and get it sorted first.
thanks
dave
02-28-2015, 03:49 PM
#120
I received one of these for review for Fly RC.
Installed it tonight in my Habu 32X and plan on giving it a few shake down flights tomorrow. Can't wait to get out of the house it's been raining all damn day.
Initial setup is VERY easy, I had to reverse the sensing on two axes which took about 15 seconds to figure out. Set the gain to a slider so I can dial it in.
Installed it tonight in my Habu 32X and plan on giving it a few shake down flights tomorrow. Can't wait to get out of the house it's been raining all damn day.
Initial setup is VERY easy, I had to reverse the sensing on two axes which took about 15 seconds to figure out. Set the gain to a slider so I can dial it in.
03-22-2015, 05:31 PM
#122
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Setup Question-3e iGyro
by SteveR » Thursday 12. March 2015, 16:06
This sure seems like a dumb question: which side do you plug the servos in. I don't find any mention in the quickstart guide.
Thanks,
Steve
SteveR Posts: 2Joined: Monday 23. February 2015, 05:07
Re: Setup Question-3e iGyro
by Richard Deutsch » Thursday 12. March 2015, 16:32
Hello,
"Gain" side
PowerBox - Systems Support
Richard Deutsch Posts: 2650Joined: Tuesday 7. August 2012, 10:37
HI all,this answer by Richard is wrong, gain side is the receiver side.
Also, when useing a non SRS power box, the connections would be , receiver to gain side of the 3e, the usb side to the power box in, and finally, pb out to the servos, everyone agree.
Post now corrected
Thanks Rcpete
2 posts • Page 1 of 1
Setup Question-3e iGyro
by SteveR » Thursday 12. March 2015, 16:06This sure seems like a dumb question: which side do you plug the servos in. I don't find any mention in the quickstart guide.
Thanks,
Steve
SteveR Posts: 2Joined: Monday 23. February 2015, 05:07
Re: Setup Question-3e iGyro
by Richard Deutsch » Thursday 12. March 2015, 16:32Hello,
"Gain" side
PowerBox - Systems Support
Richard Deutsch Posts: 2650Joined: Tuesday 7. August 2012, 10:37
HI all,this answer by Richard is wrong, gain side is the receiver side.
Also, when useing a non SRS power box, the connections would be , receiver to gain side of the 3e, the usb side to the power box in, and finally, pb out to the servos, everyone agree.
Post now corrected
Thanks Rcpete
Last edited by rcpete347; 03-23-2015 at 08:58 AM.
03-23-2015, 02:57 AM
#123
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HI all, so the servos are connected to the gain side of the gyro.
Also, when useing a non SRS power box, the connections would be , receiver to usb side of the 3e, the gain side to the power box in, and finally, pb out to the servos, everyone agree.
Thanks Rcpete
HI all, so the servos are connected to the gain side of the gyro.
Also, when useing a non SRS power box, the connections would be , receiver to usb side of the 3e, the gain side to the power box in, and finally, pb out to the servos, everyone agree.
Thanks Rcpete
Craig