First Impression of new I gyro 3E ( Flying )
#126
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Setup Question-3e iGyro
by SteveR » Thursday 12. March 2015, 16:06
This sure seems like a dumb question: which side do you plug the servos in. I don't find any mention in the quickstart guide.
Thanks,
Steve
SteveR Posts: 2Joined: Monday 23. February 2015, 05:07
Re: Setup Question-3e iGyro
by Richard Deutsch » Thursday 12. March 2015, 16:32
Hello,
"Gain" side
PowerBox - Systems Support
Richard Deutsch Posts: 2650Joined: Tuesday 7. August 2012, 10:37
HI all, so the servos are connected to the gain side of the gyro.
Also, when useing a non SRS power box, the connections would be , receiver to usb side of the 3e, the gain side to the power box in, and finally, pb out to the servos, everyone agree.
Thanks Rcpete
2 posts • Page 1 of 1
Setup Question-3e iGyro
by SteveR » Thursday 12. March 2015, 16:06
This sure seems like a dumb question: which side do you plug the servos in. I don't find any mention in the quickstart guide.
Thanks,
Steve
SteveR Posts: 2Joined: Monday 23. February 2015, 05:07
Re: Setup Question-3e iGyro
by Richard Deutsch » Thursday 12. March 2015, 16:32
Hello,
"Gain" side
PowerBox - Systems Support
Richard Deutsch Posts: 2650Joined: Tuesday 7. August 2012, 10:37
HI all, so the servos are connected to the gain side of the gyro.
Also, when useing a non SRS power box, the connections would be , receiver to usb side of the 3e, the gain side to the power box in, and finally, pb out to the servos, everyone agree.
Thanks Rcpete
Agree on the issue of the ground wire label (orientation) being better placed on the side of the unit to see it clearly (vs the lower surface). Many customers will likely mount the iGyro 3e to a removable wooden platform that bolts onto a mounting plate in the airframe so they can easily remove it if required or move the unit from airframe to airframe if desired. Once the iGyro 3e is mounted to a mounting board via the double sided tape, the +/- orientation label can't be seen. If the gyro get's disconnected and set aside for a day or two it could be confusing to the customer to re connect without fishing for internet photos as it's not on the documentation anywhere, just the lower case.
I bought the connector link for the unit and now I'm glad I have. As useful as the gyro is with factory settings, the unit can be highly customized once in the configuration program. I have not used the custom settings yet but surely as the season moves forward and more planes are flown with the unit I will.
#127
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Finally decided to try out a gyro and installed the IGryo3e in my F20 which is trimed out. The setup was pretty straight forward. I set it up on a 3 position switch on my 10X with an initial gain of +35 and -30. I wanted to ask what was the final gain you finally left your settings at and on what type of aircraft to get an idea where I may end up. I estimate my airplane is flying in the range of 150 to 175 MPH.
#128
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Each and every aircraft will be different as far as gain goes. Even the same airplane type but two different examples will be a little different due to variations in control throws, CG, etc. To make a "WAG" on what you probably have on gains, I'd say "you are probably pretty close" but I'd be careful on how soon you open up the speed range until you get some time on the gyro at lower speeds and solidify your comfort with the switching from your TX. You may find your plane will not tolerate as much gain at full speed, besides, most planes are pretty stable anyhow at speed.
My example aircraft are completely different. The first one was a P-51D prop plane and the speed envelope was probably the high 20mph range to the high 80mph range. I extensively used various gains from 20 percent to 100 percent in both "Rate" (type A) and "Attitude Hold" (or type B). I was able to fly up to the higher limit of speed on the airframe at 100 percent in both modes. On the P-51 I started to really enjoy using the "attitude" mode more than anything after getting comfortable on the "rate" mode first.
The second aircraft was an El Bandito electric ducted fan. Speed range is from the mid 30mph range at full stall on the runway to about 160mph on a full throttle level pass and a bit faster in a descent. At 100 percent gain I reached an oscillation in roll (aileron over control via gyro) at about 100mph before backing off and adjusting rates. At 50 percent I noticed some "possible" twitchiness, or it could have just been thermals, at about 120 mph. To know where you stand you'll need several test flights and take notes to see really for yourself.
So my setup now is using a 3 position switch. I use 30 percent gain as the based line for both modes and a slider lever programmed as a trim for the gain so I can go from 40 to 20 percent. I can't for the life of me go back to flying this plane without it, I've been so happy with the results. I'm going to buy at least one more unit to share with a few other models, notably my A-4 and F-100, as those are next to get the iGyro treatment. Depending on how tight installation is, I'll probably dedicate one or more units to individual planes before I go to sharing one between a few other models that might be easier to get into and move things around.
If you have the programming cable, that opens up the game so you can change relative gain on each control axis. For example if you are getting aileron oscillation first you can dial down the aileron sensitivity a few points so you can have all axis of control set optimally. In my case on the Bandito EDF jet I think the ailerons are the limitation so when I get more time to play with the setup I may lower the aileron sensitivity a little and then raise the gains a few points. But to be honest, the unit works so well for me right now I don't feel it's completely necessary. It may make a difference however in some aircraft and I do expect to play around a little with the unit as I gain comfort and experience.
Another thing- if you get an oscillation during initial proving flights "what I do" is immediately reduce throttle and pull up to wash some speed off. I don't try to mess with any switches or levers, I'm just looking to maintain control and minimize airframe stress and get the plane flying at a safe speed and condition. It's not like flutter, but depending on how severe, I'm sure it could stress out the airframe or cause a PIO. Best to get the plane safely slowed under control and then play with switches to adjust. On a new install I also take off with the gyro "off" until I get very comfortable with how the model reacts to my settings and I'm comfortable with the switch positions and how to get to them without taking eyes off the model.
My example aircraft are completely different. The first one was a P-51D prop plane and the speed envelope was probably the high 20mph range to the high 80mph range. I extensively used various gains from 20 percent to 100 percent in both "Rate" (type A) and "Attitude Hold" (or type B). I was able to fly up to the higher limit of speed on the airframe at 100 percent in both modes. On the P-51 I started to really enjoy using the "attitude" mode more than anything after getting comfortable on the "rate" mode first.
The second aircraft was an El Bandito electric ducted fan. Speed range is from the mid 30mph range at full stall on the runway to about 160mph on a full throttle level pass and a bit faster in a descent. At 100 percent gain I reached an oscillation in roll (aileron over control via gyro) at about 100mph before backing off and adjusting rates. At 50 percent I noticed some "possible" twitchiness, or it could have just been thermals, at about 120 mph. To know where you stand you'll need several test flights and take notes to see really for yourself.
So my setup now is using a 3 position switch. I use 30 percent gain as the based line for both modes and a slider lever programmed as a trim for the gain so I can go from 40 to 20 percent. I can't for the life of me go back to flying this plane without it, I've been so happy with the results. I'm going to buy at least one more unit to share with a few other models, notably my A-4 and F-100, as those are next to get the iGyro treatment. Depending on how tight installation is, I'll probably dedicate one or more units to individual planes before I go to sharing one between a few other models that might be easier to get into and move things around.
If you have the programming cable, that opens up the game so you can change relative gain on each control axis. For example if you are getting aileron oscillation first you can dial down the aileron sensitivity a few points so you can have all axis of control set optimally. In my case on the Bandito EDF jet I think the ailerons are the limitation so when I get more time to play with the setup I may lower the aileron sensitivity a little and then raise the gains a few points. But to be honest, the unit works so well for me right now I don't feel it's completely necessary. It may make a difference however in some aircraft and I do expect to play around a little with the unit as I gain comfort and experience.
Another thing- if you get an oscillation during initial proving flights "what I do" is immediately reduce throttle and pull up to wash some speed off. I don't try to mess with any switches or levers, I'm just looking to maintain control and minimize airframe stress and get the plane flying at a safe speed and condition. It's not like flutter, but depending on how severe, I'm sure it could stress out the airframe or cause a PIO. Best to get the plane safely slowed under control and then play with switches to adjust. On a new install I also take off with the gyro "off" until I get very comfortable with how the model reacts to my settings and I'm comfortable with the switch positions and how to get to them without taking eyes off the model.
Last edited by Eddie P; 03-30-2015 at 04:49 PM.
#129
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Thanks for the explanation Eddie, I will try your suggestions.
The good thing is that If I dont like how the aircraft is reacting at the speed I am going, I can switch it off in an instant by flipping the switch to the middle position.
The good thing is that If I dont like how the aircraft is reacting at the speed I am going, I can switch it off in an instant by flipping the switch to the middle position.
#130
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Jetmutt, should the aircraft start to oscillate, you would be much better off doing what Eddie suggests and what I have had to do, and that is reduce power and climb to scrub off airspeed. Once under control, you will then have plenty of time to fumble for switches and knobs to make adjustments. No matter how many times you practice flipping that switch, when the time comes to do it for real it will take you longer to find and flip the switch than it will to throttle back and climb.
I've been there, and had to do it.
Regards,
...jim
#132
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I know what you mean Jim, trying to find the right switch in a hurry, Where is it? Good suggestion to just reduce throttle and raise the nose to bleed speed. I will do all this with a lot distance between the airplane and the ground until I get comfortable.
#133
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Don't panic about it, having never flown an IGyro (though I had plenty of experience with other ones) I installed the IGyro in a Habu and had it pretty close after 2 flights and perfect with two more using the software to dial back the axis that was shuddering first till all three were maxed out in both modes without any shuddering at full speed. Then I threw a mix in to bump the gain 5 percent with the wheels down.
#135
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Heading hold is a misnomer, it sounds like the gyro knows your heading (which is a compass course) and it doesn't. It should ideally be called attitude hold.
If you release the sticks the plane will keep going where its going, if you give stick input the plane follows them. Where hold mode shows its chops is lets say you roll inverted, in normal mode if your model is a little nose heavy as most are, the nose will slowly arc towards the ground until you give elevator to correct it. Wind gusts wont bounce it but it will gradually point back towards the ground.
In hold mode, you can roll inverted and establish your line and let go of the sticks and the jet will stay level where you put it.
If you release the sticks the plane will keep going where its going, if you give stick input the plane follows them. Where hold mode shows its chops is lets say you roll inverted, in normal mode if your model is a little nose heavy as most are, the nose will slowly arc towards the ground until you give elevator to correct it. Wind gusts wont bounce it but it will gradually point back towards the ground.
In hold mode, you can roll inverted and establish your line and let go of the sticks and the jet will stay level where you put it.
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Hi,
I have ordered the 3E and hope to get it by this weekend. I plan to put it in a 48" foam 3D plane to get accustomed to it. I have a question regarding the hold mode. As far as I understand, if I let go of the sticks, the gyro will hold the attitude of the plane it was in when I let go of the sticks. What I want to know is, when in a certain attitude in the hold mode, does moving a single control (rudder in knife edge for example), remove the other control surfaces( elevator and ailerons) from the hold mode also? I'm pretty sure the gyro keeps the control surfaces in hold independently of each other but my Eagle Tree Guardian does not function in this manner.
Thanks,
Asad
I have ordered the 3E and hope to get it by this weekend. I plan to put it in a 48" foam 3D plane to get accustomed to it. I have a question regarding the hold mode. As far as I understand, if I let go of the sticks, the gyro will hold the attitude of the plane it was in when I let go of the sticks. What I want to know is, when in a certain attitude in the hold mode, does moving a single control (rudder in knife edge for example), remove the other control surfaces( elevator and ailerons) from the hold mode also? I'm pretty sure the gyro keeps the control surfaces in hold independently of each other but my Eagle Tree Guardian does not function in this manner.
Thanks,
Asad
#138
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I agree with the above.
I am not an expert and have no idea how the digital nature of the code and algorithms are truly working. From a "layman's" control feel perspective however it seems as if the iGyro has some clever "on-ramps" and "off-ramps" in the interface so your control inputs are not all at once nor are they off at once - it's a smooth interface between you, the plane and the gyro. I have about as much time on "hold" mode as I do "rate" mode now. I like both but for some models (like scale jets and warbirds) the "hold" mode seems pretty fun. It might just be a phase and something new to play with but I have never liked "hold" mode in any other gyro before this one. I still fly fast sport jets and aerobats more in "rate" but I will likely start to play with "hold" a bit more in those too now that I have more of these units in more planes.
I don't want to act like I don't fly "raw" anymore. I do switch off my gyro a lot and still make sure my models are staying accurately trimmed out every once in a while. It's still a model and still fun to fly old school. And some models I won't bother to add these gyros to. I am just enjoying the new toys that are available to us these days.
I am not an expert and have no idea how the digital nature of the code and algorithms are truly working. From a "layman's" control feel perspective however it seems as if the iGyro has some clever "on-ramps" and "off-ramps" in the interface so your control inputs are not all at once nor are they off at once - it's a smooth interface between you, the plane and the gyro. I have about as much time on "hold" mode as I do "rate" mode now. I like both but for some models (like scale jets and warbirds) the "hold" mode seems pretty fun. It might just be a phase and something new to play with but I have never liked "hold" mode in any other gyro before this one. I still fly fast sport jets and aerobats more in "rate" but I will likely start to play with "hold" a bit more in those too now that I have more of these units in more planes.
I don't want to act like I don't fly "raw" anymore. I do switch off my gyro a lot and still make sure my models are staying accurately trimmed out every once in a while. It's still a model and still fun to fly old school. And some models I won't bother to add these gyros to. I am just enjoying the new toys that are available to us these days.
Last edited by Eddie P; 04-13-2015 at 12:02 PM.
#139
I have an iGyro 3E which I intend to use in a large L39. In order to test it I have installed it in my Ripmax Xcalibur. As soon as I switched it on I noticed the jet felt more locked in but a slightly less favourable effect was that it also felt like the model was less responsive to small inputs, sort of like how I'd expect it to feel if I increased the amount of expo in my transmitter. As a result I've had to reduce the expo in order to sharpen up the small input response to feel like it did with out the gyro. Is this normal for this unit?
#140
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[QUOTE=Beachy1968;12023441]I have an iGyro 3E which I intend to use in a large L39. In order to test it I have installed it in my Ripmax Xcalibur. As soon as I switched it on I noticed the jet felt more locked in but a slightly less favourable effect was that it also felt like the model was less responsive to small inputs, sort of like how I'd expect it to feel if I increased the amount of expo in my transmitter. As a result I've had to reduce the expo in order to sharpen up the small input response to feel like it did with out the gyro. Is this normal for this unit?[/QUOTE]
Mark,
Yes, that is normal....at least for the Cortex. I was advised to dial the expo down at least half of what it was before using the gyro to avoid exactly what you describe. I assume it would be the same for the iGyro.
Craig
Mark,
Yes, that is normal....at least for the Cortex. I was advised to dial the expo down at least half of what it was before using the gyro to avoid exactly what you describe. I assume it would be the same for the iGyro.
Craig
#142
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As soon as I switched it on I noticed the jet felt more locked in but a slightly less favourable effect was that it also felt like the model was less responsive to small inputs, sort of like how I'd expect it to feel if I increased the amount of expo in my transmitter. As a result I've had to reduce the expo in order to sharpen up the small input response to feel like it did with out the gyro. Is this normal for this unit?
What I've also observed on several types of models in different setups on this gyro is that while "Rate" will soften the rough edges of a control setup, "Attitude" mode will not soften the models response at all and seems to be a generally crisp and assertive flight control algorithm. The Attitude mode will fly the model more aggressively with stick deflection IOW. More like less expo is considered and there is no dual rate mix if that's what's occurring in "Rate" (??). I am probably not describing it correctly and I don't want to confuse anyone, if I need to clarify I will.
#143
This is my first gyro im going to put on my f-22 that's already flying when I installed the gyro one of the stabs was reversed did I do something wrong. or do need to reverse. that channel in the transmitter.
#144
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No need to reverse the radio. You reverse the channel that is operating in the wrong direction via the gyro unit itself. You Hold the little button on the front of the gyro ( after it is switched on ) The unit flashes and then a dim green light will come on next to the first aileron channel. release the button. If you are happy with the direction of that channel then you need to press and hold the button down again until the light moves up to the next channel. Or if you want to reverse it just give the button a short quick press and the light will turn red to indicate you have reversed the gyro direction on that channel. Basically do the hold and press thing till the dim light gets to one of the elv channels. Reverse that and all should be set.
Regards Al
Regards Al
#149
2 channels on a dx18 for the stabs I think I got it figured out when I first got the gyro I was going to use it in a icentury 106 delta I connected the gyro to my computer to switch it to delta mode it seem that my computer wasn't changing the settings in the gyro there was no progress bar showing the update .I don't know if it got changed
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A question regarding this sentence in the quickstart guide:
"Always carry out a check of the control surface movements, taking care to move the sticks to both end-points."
Is this step for calibrating the gyro's end points? Should you put the radio in high rates before this step?
Lars
"Always carry out a check of the control surface movements, taking care to move the sticks to both end-points."
Is this step for calibrating the gyro's end points? Should you put the radio in high rates before this step?
Lars