Tip22v

I measured the distance between the wheels at 973 mm, your measurement is 998, that's fairly significant difference. I'm wondering now if I measured it correctly? I put a straight edge ruler on the ground and set the main wheels right on the center of it, then I put the nose wheel on a another straight edge ruler and measured the distance to the other ruler (perpendicular). Did I do this right?

Tip22v

Here are some pics of how the oleos on the electric retracts sit.

Tip22v

BTW, if anyone is thinking about getting the Pilot electric retracts i would seriously re-consider. I bought these electric retracts directly from Tony at PilotRC in early December and have only been able to fly two times with them since. The first time out I was just doing some taxi testing and one of the main gear tires came off, didn't break anything but it did mar the rim a little. Tony sent me these little wheel retaining rings and I installed them (that was an adventure all it's own, what a PIA it was to install them). After much wrangling I finally got to fly the jet and the left tire came off when I rotated. When I landed I had no brakes because of the missing tire so I ran off the end of the runway about 10 into the grass and bent the 6mm nose gear pin (6mm is not strong enough for this size jet IMHO). I email Tony and asked about getting some replacement 6mm pins, that was more than 4 weeks ago and I still have not received a response. After more wrangling I was able to straighten out the bent nose gear pin, reinstalled the tire and flew the jet the second time. This time on post flight I noticed one of the main tires was very loose on the rim (after only one very gentle landing on a 3000' concrete runway). Upon closer inspection I found that the little wheel retainer sleeves had jammed into the center of the tire (see the picture). All of this was after I had to get two retract/brake controllers replaced (one of them smoked the first time I tried to retract the gear, the other had a defective channel on the left main and would not retract).
I'm not one who normally goes on the forums and bad talks a vendor, but in this particular case I do not want someone else to have the same experience I've had with these retracts, especially after paying $800 for them. I've come to the conclusion that these wheels and brakes are not designed well at all, and based on the lack of response I've had from Tony he does not seem concerned about it.
I've owned a lot of PilotRC planes over the years and had pretty good luck with their stuff until now. My sense is that they are new to the Jet world and really don't have the experience yet to deliver a reasonably reliable set of retracts. My only option at this point is to spend another $300 and buy a set of IntAirCo wheels and brakes and try to figure out how to fit them to the PilotRC Retracts. If any one has any other ideas I'd really appreciate your thoughts. -Tom

saillplane77

Tip, sounds like you measured corectly. I did the same and placed the mains (In the position with the trailing links extended back) On the grout line (See pic) and then measured from the grout line to the front nose. A freind of mine used 990 when he measured and he is quite precise when he takes measurements. (Just talked to him) I think what is important that the EDF guy wanted was the change in CG when you fill the tank. He does not need to fill the tank with kero and the CG stays constant so he was looking for a "middle ground" to place the CG. I have seen 2 of these jets (One on video) do a snap roll while landing even though the speeds looked ok. My guess is with an empty tank the CG is to far back. Both looked like classic CG issues. I typically set up the sport jets 1/2 inch further forward than the manufacture recommends. (Not this his is not correct but even with the Xycoy not always 100% correct and I would rather err to the nose heavy side)

Just a note I modified the existing air retracts with electric and using the IntAirCo brakes. I am assuming the new electric gear the same could be done. Although I like the Pilot R/C airframes as you said jets are different and Tony probably needs more time to ring out his new gear. Typically 6 mm or 1/4 inch pins (these are slightly different so you need to specify with IntAirCo your needs) is ok especially for a nose pin. If you could take a picture of your strut and measuremens I could look to see if they will fit ok. The IntAirCo wheels and brakes are very good and strong. If you need pins in a hurry I would bet Dreamworks has them in stock and probably better strength than the ones from Tony. Tony tries to purchase quality stuff just the suppliers in China tend to cut corners if they can. A dremel cut-off works well to shorten them as needed.

Reever45

My Feedback: (16)

I have not been impressed with the electric gear/brakes either I could never get the brakes to work well, either full on or not enough to stop plane. I also have gear that wont retract all the way, also had a tire come off the rim on takeoff and had to land on rim, we fly off asphalt so it kinda bugger rim up. Contacted Tony and he said he had a new ABS controller with much better software and he would send that to me. If i still didnt like the electric setup i could return it all and he would send me the air gear setup. I still have not got confirmation he has sent me the new controller yet

Tip22v

Did you ever hear back from Tony on the electric gear/brakes? Tony has not responded to me in over a month, I'm not sure if he is just ignoring me or if there is something else going on, either way it's pretty frustrating.

In the meantime I bought a set of Electron Retracts Wheels/Brakes. I also had a set of the original air retracts that came with the Dolphin so I used those struts with the Electron Electric Retracts/Wheels Brakes, (11.1 mm trunion size), the Electron Wheels/brakes are a perfect fit (make sure you order the 6mm axle) for the Fei Bao main struts. I then used the nose strut that came with the PilotRC electric retracts with the Electron Nose Retract. I've got three flights on this setup and everything is working great. So at this point I have purchased three sets of retracts totaling more than $2,500 just to get some landing gear, wheels, and brakes that work. I'm pretty sure this is the last PilotRC product I will ever purchase, not so much because of the issues (those are to be expected with a new product), but mostly because of the lack of support and availability of parts. After last weekend I now have 60 flights on my Dolphin and it seems like it has been more work than play -Tom

On another note, I noticed when I was installing my latest set of retracts that one of the mounting rails was loose. I've had some rough landings so I cannot blame the design of the wheel well, it's well designed. Upon closer inspection I was able to pull the mounting rail out with the bare fingers, there was so little glue on it that it just snapped out. I ended up going in a little deeper only to find many parts in the wing with little or no glue. Out of caution I checked the other wing half and found the same issue, little or no glue on major structural components in the wing. I would highly recommend everyone to closely inspect the wheel well and mounting rails to make sure they are not loose, if they are then your wing was probably made by the same person that made mine and you will want to cut away some of the sheeting to inspect and re-enforce where needed.

saillplane77

I have been flying my Pilot Dolphin for the last year and it's a nice flying airframe if you understand the limitations of flying an airframe tail heavy. (Not) Electric retracts and brakes are new to China and you need to understand this issue. The AIR retracts can be easily modified with Lado retracts and brakes with Interair from Austria. Electron makes a nice set for this airframe and the controller makes it even easier to set up. Just order the motors and brakes (Wheels and brakes are also Interair) with the Pilot air retracts and trailing links. You should be able to do this under 900 USD. (Lado less than 750 USD)

Not sure why Tony is not answering e-mails, normally he is very good about this.

Si_B

Could you explain what you mean by limitation of flying a tail heavy airframe?

Simon

Helijet

"and brakes are new to China and you need to understand this issue."

Actually Sir I would very much disagree with you on this statement. I have been very impressed with my Dolphin that included
air gear, preinstalled servos and the regulator. I nearly purchased the electric gear as a replacement but the existing set up was fine. So, as a customer I would expect that the manufacturer would produce a quality product for the amount of money charged. I should not have to research whether the gear would work or not. Clearly there are major issues with the wheel and controller. Pilot needs to address these issues or will face a substantial loss in sales in the jet community. We are too small a group and bad news travels fast.

Dean W.

Tip22v

I have not had any issues with CG (that I am aware of), can you clarify the tail heavy limitation?

saillplane77

"Could you explain what you mean by limitation of flying a tail heavy airframe?"

I am convinced especially the "sport" version the CG is to far back. I have seen several planes snap on landing and one on take-off although that one the CG might have been off. I CG mine (both sport and trainer) about 1 inch further forward and when landed an almost full tank (Flame-out) was rock solid on landing. I would advise all to move the CG forward at least at first. That is what I meant. Airframe is a great flying plane. I think the "sport model" is more forgiving. I think becuase of the wings being swept more on the trainer effect the stability but that is just my guess from a Chemical Engineer.

"Actually Sir I would very much disagree with you on this statement. I have been very impressed with my Dolphin that included
air gear, preinstalled servos and the regulator. I nearly purchased the electric gear as a replacement but the existing set up was fine. So, as a customer I would expect that the manufacturer would produce a quality product for the amount of money charged. I should not have to research whether the gear would work or not. Clearly there are major issues with the wheel and controller. Pilot needs to address these issues or will face a substantial loss in sales in the jet community. We are too small a group and bad news travels fast."

I meant electric brakes and retracts are new to China. Both my Pilots have the original gear (Pilot-Air) and with European mod (retract motors-Lado) and Austrialian brakes (electric-Intairco), this seems to work well. I have heard the air systems Tony produces work fine, I just preferred not to go the air path.

Hopefully Chief will supply and stock parts in the future for people who are buying Pilot turbine airframes.

Tip22v

Are you flying the sport wing and trainer wings in the same exact airframe or did you build two completely different aircraft? The reason I ask is because I asked Tony over a year ago about purchasing a sport wing set (mine came with the trainer wing) and have not been able to get a response. If you ordered the sport set seperately what did Tony charge for it? Also, do you have different settings for flaps on the two different wings? Thanks, Tom

saillplane77

Tip, I ordereed 2 seperate airfrmaes. The fuse and tail feather are identical so I don't see why the different wings would not work. The flaps are the same but I used less flaps than the manual called for. I think I used 25 degrees for landing and 15 for take-off. The higher % flap seemed to be to much drag and did not add much lift if any. Maybe just my preference. Try Tony again. Te issue might be he would need to build a special packaging for jist the wings. Did you get yours from Chief? Maybe he could throw a set in the next container he sends to them?

Tip22v

Thanks. I don't think I want to make any more large investments with PilotRC, I would buy some smaller parts if I could get them to respond though. I've learned my lesson, I'm going to stick with vendors with a proven track record with jets. In the meantime, I'm going to try and enjoy my Dolphin as much as I can, it is a nice flying airframe.

Helijet

Tip22v

I have a Dolphin like yours. I have also had success with mine. While it is not a spectacular bird by any means it is an honest bird in many respects.. It flys well - kinda between a Bandit and a CARF Ultra Flash. It is no where near as robust as the Ultra Flash but also does not have the tendency to be somewhat critical in the landing phase as a Bandit. I simply use those two examples due to same size, approx. cost overall flight performance. I truly believe that had Pilot spent a little extra time in properly promoting AND supporting the Dolphin it would be much more successful than it is today. Unfortunately, Pilot does not seem to understand the jet modeler and they have lost what could have been a successful niche in jet airframes. I continue to enjoy flying mine and have no plans to sell or trade it. I agree though, should I dork it in at some point I would not buy another Pilot product because there is no support. Like you, I have sent Tony at Pilot a number of emails asking questions on accessories / set up in the last year and have NEVER received a reply...from anyone at Pilot.

So I will spend my future jet airframe dollars with another company.
Sad and unfortunate.

Dean W.
Canada

Tip22v

Thanks for the info Dean. I feel less personally offended knowing I'm not the only one getting ignored. I agree this jet could have been much more successful if it were not managed so poorly. I'll also go on record saying that I have not been impressed with Chief Aircraft throughout this whole ordeal, I don't think they thought this through before jumping in to sell RC Jets.

jimmitch

Subcribed

Kim Couturier

My Feedback: (120)

I would agree about moving the CG forward. I lost mine on take off when it rotated, and rolled left into the ground. I have also read a couple threads where guys are lengthening the horizontal stab 2 1/2 inches on each side.....seems to help with pitch up issues. Another guy recommended making the vertical stab taller.....

Si_B

It certainly doesn't need a bigger vertical stab. Flew mine with the modified tail and the sport wing. CG was maybe a couple of mm in front of factory position. Flew on rails but a bit sedate on a 100 turbine.

Simon

Tip22v

I'm flying the trainer wing so I can't speak for anything related to the sport wing. I've got 70+ flights on mine and I have never had any issues with pitch. Extending the horizontal stab seems extreme to me, again I don't have the sport wing so take that for what it's worth. I also use less flaps than recommended due to the excessive vertical speed with the factory flaps, if I were better at managing the throttle I'm pretty sure I could reduce the vertical speed with a little additional power on the approach. If I was going to make a mod I would add two fins under the tail in an effort to counter some of the tail wag during flight.

Dave Wilshere

I would agree about moving the CG forward. I lost mine on take off when it rotated, and rolled left into the ground. I have also read a couple threads where guys are lengthening the horizontal stab 2 1/2 inches on each side.....seems to help with pitch up issues. Another guy recommended making the vertical stab taller.....

This is not c of g and as usual a lot of comments are un-informed

Take off issue is main gear position compared to the balance, axles are too far back. So it needs an increased angle of attack. I add 6-10mm packer on the nose rails.
The Dolphin models do need a bigger stabiliser. increase the stabiliser and you can run more flap...cause it will be stable. Or do what all the other sports jet designs that messed up...add a gyro

We proved it at JP this weekend when Stevie was flying my Dolphin, it sat on a model stand all day so the mains were 'less compressed' than normal by the time he took off, it 'bit' a little on rotation when he needed to unstick. For Saturday and Sunday, we manually compressed the legs on roll out and it floated off each time.

DW

Kim Couturier

My Feedback: (120)

I'm a little confused....what is a " nose packer"? In you post, are advocating a longer nose gear, or ...??

Helijet

Dave's English version of shims.....

Dean W.

Dave Wilshere

Sorry, wood strips between the gear and wood mount to drop the nose leg-like you say a longer nose leg

Kim Couturier

My Feedback: (120)

I'm putting my new Dolphin together, and have found a few differences from the original. The "tabs" on the elevator to screw them into the fuse are missing?? There are blind nuts in the stabs that look like there should be a screw coming into the stab from the fuse, but no way to get to it?? Also, this kit has some "fins" much like you see on an F-16..that would mount on the bottom of the fuse....not sure where to mount them? The instructions still show up elevator mixed in with flaps. That was totally wrong when I flew my first one. No mix, or a little down was appropriate. I need a set of retracts and struts for mine...does anyone have any that would work that they would part with? I don't care if they are the original equipment.