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FAA now recruiting State, and Local Law enforcement to enforce interpretation?

Old 01-10-2015, 08:21 PM
  #26  
radfordc
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Originally Posted by pkoury
What does the FCC have to do with the NAS? Did I miss something, is the FCC going to ban radio frequencies used for RC?
They have everything to do with the National Airspace System. Not so much with frequencies.
Old 01-11-2015, 12:28 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by radfordc
They have everything to do with the National Airspace System. Not so much with frequencies.
LOL. That's the FAA(Federal Aviation Administration) NOT the FCC(Federal Communication Commission).
Old 01-11-2015, 05:39 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by jim billings
re #21:

Here's the rotten apple to spoil a (mostly) lucid conversation and posting of opinion.

In spite of a pinhead hatred of authority, I support the FAA and police in ANY effort to rid the hobby of morons and idiots.
I agree!
Old 01-11-2015, 05:50 AM
  #29  
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I for one dont mind this. Was only a few months ago on patrol we almost had a midair in our Bell407 police helicopter in class B airspace at 1000 feet at night with a quad copter. We also had another guy flying a big flippy floppy Gasser right next to the airport in class B airspace. We got both of the guys and all we basically could do at the time is tell them not to do it again. The guy with the quad was pretty surprised when he landed and a few police cars pulled up lol.

This area where both of these happened was near the approach to an international airport and in class B airspace. When people do dumb things like this it needs to be stopped.

Lets be honest this does not affect us at AMA fields following rules. If your at a crowded park and want to fly your 3D helicopter you might have some problems and you should. Local law enforcement has their plates full already and are only going to do something about people being dumb.
Old 01-11-2015, 06:00 AM
  #30  
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That is scary stuff for sure. When we note that it's a matter of time before something like this happens, some folks will come in and say oh you're fear mongering and doing your chicken little routine, but the fact is they are just doing the head in the sand thing. It's great that it hasn't happened, and nobody wants it to, but with the proliferation of the multirotors, and some folks not using their head, it's more than probable that we'll have an issue. And yes, this can mean in a park or public area just as well as in the air.
Old 01-11-2015, 06:01 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by bri6672
This is a 2 way street! If idiots with quad copters and FPV would stop being morons we wouldn't be in such a situation! I'm so sick of people flying these things over kids soccer games, over other people's property, extreme high altitudes of full scale traffic and over crowded places like amusement parks! If these people would join the AMA and fly at approved locations this would barely be an issue! But instead every time a story hits the news the FAA steps up the game. Their biggest problem is they blanket the rules and don't seperate the people following the rules from the backyard Cowboys!!!
Extremely well said.
I've been an AMA member since 1974 and have never seen such wreck-less flying as Ive seen over the past few years with multirotors and FPVs. It simply affirms once again that Darwin was right,
I just hope officials simply don't bother with long standing flying clubs and focus their attention elsewhere.
Old 01-11-2015, 06:26 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by bri6672
This is a 2 way street! If idiots with quad copters and FPV would stop being morons we wouldn't be in such a situation! I'm so sick of people flying these things over kids soccer games, over other people's property, extreme high altitudes of full scale traffic and over crowded places like amusement parks! If these people would join the AMA and fly at approved locations this would barely be an issue! But instead every time a story hits the news the FAA steps up the game. Their biggest problem is they blanket the rules and don't seperate the people following the rules from the backyard Cowboys!!!
3 Things 1.) Yes the IDIOT with the Quad has to be educated ... Start by talking to your local Hobby shop that sell this stuff and get the manufactures to include warnings. 2.) most people (AMA Club Members) that don't do Quads/FPV ect don't want them in their clubs.They barely tolerate Helie-o-copeters or any thing they don't do. 3. What makes U think anyone woud want to pay $58 + $75 / year AMA and Club dues to be ridiculed by a bunch of old "FARTS" that think because it's always been that way, their way is always better.
Half these O'L "FARTS" Don't like Women and Kids around the field because thay have to watch their language, And they don't like it that kids fly better than they do.
Old 01-11-2015, 06:26 AM
  #33  
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tripple post Do U all have trouble with RCU taking a long time to do anything like a post a post or get to some area U click on?

Last edited by HoundDog; 01-11-2015 at 06:37 AM.
Old 01-11-2015, 06:30 AM
  #34  
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Double Post Sorry
Old 01-11-2015, 06:58 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Maximilionalpha
Let me see if I can understand this correctly...If you possess billions of dollars, you can... build your own rocket, fly it into outer orbit and back, build a building as high as you like, fly as low as you like over farms, communities, or the like, all without worrying about the FAA...but...if you fly rc aircraft, you cannot...fly above 400ft...launch it into outer orbit...fly over farms, communities, or public spaces. And one has to ask yourself, "Why not"? Is not the sky above us, all of ours to enjoy? How dare we allow the government to dictate to us, as to how high we can fly our aircraft, without fighting back?! Do we live under a dictatorship, or Communist government?... Better stop them in their tracks, before we have no Rights left, because next thing you know, they'll be in our homes, going through our belongings, telling us that we can keep this, but not that! Think about it!
Hey =Maximilionalpha; Do U hear the Black Helicopters coming yet?
Old 01-11-2015, 07:08 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
In another thread you put up a Trappy video and wondered when someone was going to get hurt, yet you post the same kinds of videos of you flying. Now, you seem to have an issue with another poster indicating he's o/k with the FAA fining people who fly recklessly and break the law. Why is it o/k for you to fly well over 400 feet, above people, homes, roads etc, but not Trappy?

Why would you have a problem with people getting fined for breaking the law?
It's Not a law YET there are No FAR's pertaining to UAV's sUAV DRONES or anything else that flies by remote control It's the Interpretation of the FAA. As long as they believe they have a mandate and like the IRS U have to prove your innocents instead of them proving your guilt, they will keep trying to circumvent due process.
Old 01-11-2015, 07:57 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by ltc
Extremely well said.
I've been an AMA member since 1974 and have never seen such wreck-less flying as Ive seen over the past few years with multirotors and FPVs. It simply affirms once again that Darwin was right,
I just hope officials simply don't bother with long standing flying clubs and focus their attention elsewhere.
The FAA folks who are involved in this have said, numerous times, that established AMA clubs are NOT the problem and they are not interested in regulating/messing with them.

Bob
Old 01-11-2015, 07:59 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
It's Not a law YET there are No FAR's pertaining to UAV's sUAV DRONES or anything else that flies by remote control It's the Interpretation of the FAA. As long as they believe they have a mandate and like the IRS U have to prove your innocents instead of them proving your guilt, they will keep trying to circumvent due process.
BINGO! You hit the nail on the head! As I said, the courts have not fully weighed on this aspect and will ultimately do so and make the final decision. If the courts also come down on the side of the FAA in this, it will have long-range, far-reaching impacts with how the public and Federal Agencies interact...

Bob
Old 01-11-2015, 08:23 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
3 Things 1.) Yes the IDIOT with the Quad has to be educated ... Start by talking to your local Hobby shop that sell this stuff and get the manufactures to include warnings. 2.) most people (AMA Club Members) that don't do Quads/FPV ect don't want them in their clubs.They barely tolerate Helie-o-copeters or any thing they don't do. 3. What makes U think anyone woud want to pay $58 + $75 / year AMA and Club dues to be ridiculed by a bunch of old "FARTS" that think because it's always been that way, their way is always better.
Half these O'L "FARTS" Don't like Women and Kids around the field because thay have to watch their language, And they don't like it that kids fly better than they do.
Although I have very little interest in multirotors, I would think the huge appeal is the ability to get great quality pictures and video using such a stable platform. Therein lies the problem with ability to lure new pilots into joining a club, flying safely at a club field and keeping them as members. The excitement is being able to acquire video from different perspectives, different locations , landmarks etc... You'd be bored after one day at the same flying field. The added benefit of making them easy to fly out of the box with all the self correcting, return to home, and GPS features is what makes them even more appealing and dangerous at the same time. Look at the ads in the model magazines. They show them flying along a closed course capturing video of cars racing around. The manufacturers and retailers promote this behavior and then we should be surprised when we see someone doing it? This is what's selling now and it's really just about the bottom line from the manufacturer to the distributor to the hobby shop. Unfortunately some type of accident will eventually occur and hopefully when the government boot comes down, our fixed location club fields won't get caught under it.
Old 01-11-2015, 08:44 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by gunradd
I for one dont mind this. Was only a few months ago on patrol we almost had a midair in our Bell407 police helicopter in class B airspace at 1000 feet at night with a quad copter. We also had another guy flying a big flippy floppy Gasser right next to the airport in class B airspace. We got both of the guys and all we basically could do at the time is tell them not to do it again. The guy with the quad was pretty surprised when he landed and a few police cars pulled up lol.

This area where both of these happened was near the approach to an international airport and in class B airspace. When people do dumb things like this it needs to be stopped.

Lets be honest this does not affect us at AMA fields following rules. If your at a crowded park and want to fly your 3D helicopter you might have some problems and you should. Local law enforcement has their plates full already and are only going to do something about people being dumb.
I see what you are saying about AMA fields following rules. What about some of us who have local permission to fly at full scale fields? Is this going to be affected by some yahoo who calls in complaints to the FAA?

Thanks,
Andy
Old 01-11-2015, 09:11 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by gunradd
I for one dont mind this. Was only a few months ago on patrol we almost had a midair in our Bell407 police helicopter in class B airspace at 1000 feet at night with a quad copter. We also had another guy flying a big flippy floppy Gasser right next to the airport in class B airspace. We got both of the guys and all we basically could do at the time is tell them not to do it again. The guy with the quad was pretty surprised when he landed and a few police cars pulled up lol.

This area where both of these happened was near the approach to an international airport and in class B airspace. When people do dumb things like this it needs to be stopped.

Lets be honest this does not affect us at AMA fields following rules. If your at a crowded park and want to fly your 3D helicopter you might have some problems and you should. Local law enforcement has their plates full already and are only going to do something about people being dumb.
I think that these people don't really believe thay are creating a hazard ... they need to be Trained Some how. There has to be some way to get to these people before something does happen. Maybe AMA could contact all the hobby dealers around the world and have them add some sort of WARNING to all their products that they could be subject to fines and jail if the product is proven to be used in a dangerous or hazardous manor.
Old 01-11-2015, 09:46 AM
  #42  
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Andy again most not all of the law enforcement officers I know will use common sense and realize your not putting anyone in harms way. The problem areas are the heavy populated areas that have people flying FPV in controlled airspace. We almost had a mid air and NYPD aviation also almost had one. Law enforcement needs the education to be able to stop these people. The guys on the ground don't understand the airspace rules and just how dangerous it is.

At Tampa International we have a small beach near the end of the runway. Well someone decided it would be fun to add a crap load of string to a big kite and fly it right in the approach to the runway. Is he breaking a law?? Not sure but its reckless and dangerous.

Originally Posted by AndyAndrews
I see what you are saying about AMA fields following rules. What about some of us who have local permission to fly at full scale fields? Is this going to be affected by some yahoo who calls in complaints to the FAA?

Thanks,
Andy
Old 01-11-2015, 09:57 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by gunradd
I for one dont mind this. Was only a few months ago on patrol we almost had a midair in our Bell407 police helicopter in class B airspace at 1000 feet at night with a quad copter. We also had another guy flying a big flippy floppy Gasser right next to the airport in class B airspace. We got both of the guys and all we basically could do at the time is tell them not to do it again. The guy with the quad was pretty surprised when he landed and a few police cars pulled up lol.

This area where both of these happened was near the approach to an international airport and in class B airspace. When people do dumb things like this it needs to be stopped.

Lets be honest this does not affect us at AMA fields following rules. If your at a crowded park and want to fly your 3D helicopter you might have some problems and you should. Local law enforcement has their plates full already and are only going to do something about people being dumb.
+1...God bless you guys and thank you for the work you do. I would say that if the FAA gets LE to do their bully work, then it will be applied unequally...the levels of funding, sophistication, and common sense vary widely across the country. I recall a local cop who met the jet at the jetway and tried to issue a ticket to the captain for speeding, apparently he hit him with the radar gun...that one still gives me a smile.
Old 01-11-2015, 11:37 AM
  #44  
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Although I have very little interest in multirotors, I would think the huge appeal is the ability to get great quality pictures and video using such a stable platform. Therein lies the problem with ability to lure new pilots into joining a club, flying safely at a club field and keeping them as members. The excitement is being able to acquire video from different perspectives, different locations , landmarks etc... You'd be bored after one day at the same flying field. The added benefit of making them easy to fly out of the box with all the self correcting, return to home, and GPS features is what makes them even more appealing and dangerous at the same time. Look at the ads in the model magazines. They show them flying along a closed course capturing video of cars racing around. The manufacturers and retailers promote this behavior and then we should be surprised when we see someone doing it? This is what's selling now and it's really just about the bottom line from the manufacturer to the distributor to the hobby shop. Unfortunately some type of accident will eventually occur and hopefully when the government boot comes down, our fixed location club fields won't get caught under it.

Well said afterburner, I’ve been flying for 23 years mostly at AMA clubs and some park flying. I’m also an amateur videographer so the appeal of the multirotor, is to shoot video at unique locations. There is a new interactive map that shows where you can and can’t fly. I live only a few hours from Yosemite and thought that would be an awesome place to shoot video from a multirotor, until I found out with a little research that the national park system banned unmanned aircraft. I do want to take video over different city locations but I will do it in a way that I’m not over people. (Or as few as possible) With that said we have full scale planes over our heads every day. My wife is a realtor and many of her coworkers are already hiring multi rotor pilots for aerial photography. I’m sure they don’t know it’s not legal yet. The FAA has a really tough situation trying to figure out how to bring these UAS’s into the national airspace safely.

The waivers and airworthiness certificates they have issued this year have had to have a private pilot’s license and a class 2 medical cert. That seems ridicules to fly an 8 pound quad copter to shot real estate video in a neighborhood. I’m sure the FAA knows that, but from my understanding it’s the only way for now they know a background check was done along with basic NAS knowledge. My hope is they will come out with a UAS pilot program, it will have to be setup in weight classes somehow. There is a huge field here ready to explode with new jobs but they have to do it safely. Not easy for all sides involved. I plan to get my license if a system is put in place for UAV pilots, I’m waiting until the end of the year to see if and when the FAA ruling comes out.

As for the reckless guys out there I think maybe they just aren't informed (some maybe just stupid ) but I'm sure there is a way it can be done safely..... after seeing just how advanced some of these new systems are first hand the bug to own one bit me hard

Here is a link to the interactive map that shows where you can’t fly a UAS: https://www.mapbox.com/drone/no-fly/...41.327/-96.504
Old 01-11-2015, 12:01 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
3 Things 1.) Yes the IDIOT with the Quad has to be educated ... Start by talking to your local Hobby shop that sell this stuff and get the manufactures to include warnings. 2.) most people (AMA Club Members) that don't do Quads/FPV ect don't want them in their clubs.They barely tolerate Helie-o-copeters or any thing they don't do. 3. What makes U think anyone woud want to pay $58 + $75 / year AMA and Club dues to be ridiculed by a bunch of old "FARTS" that think because it's always been that way, their way is always better.
Half these O'L "FARTS" Don't like Women and Kids around the field because thay have to watch their language, And they don't like it that kids fly better than they do.
The OPERATOR has the responsibility...not a hobby shop, or the manf. BUT...there are already warnings inside every product sold like this, they are just ignored. Don't know how or why you are speaking on behalf of most people, AMA members or not, in terms of what they want via multi rotors or even helis. Your position appears to be one arrived at dealing with your local clubs, not everyone's.

Originally Posted by HoundDog
tripple post Do U all have trouble with RCU taking a long time to do anything like a post a post or get to some area U click on?
yes, it's painfully brutally constantly "we don't think we have any problems" it must be your server/computer/platform/browser problem slow. It's doubtful that will ever change, but I'm sure the mods would love it to.

Originally Posted by HoundDog
Hey =Maximilionalpha; Do U hear the Black Helicopters coming yet?
Shhhhhhhhh...just cuz he can't see or hear them doesn't mean they aren't watching him. (right now)

Originally Posted by HoundDog
It's Not a law YET there are No FAR's pertaining to UAV's sUAV DRONES or anything else that flies by remote control It's the Interpretation of the FAA. As long as they believe they have a mandate and like the IRS U have to prove your innocents instead of them proving your guilt, they will keep trying to circumvent due process.
Let's see how the folks already arrested and fined feel about hair splitting between laws, FARS, etc etc etc. Howz it been working out for Trappy so far? How about the two dudes from NYC who have shelled out over 8,000 in legal fees and fines so far?
Old 01-11-2015, 02:19 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
It's Not a law YET there are No FAR's pertaining to UAV's sUAV DRONES or anything else that flies by remote control It's the Interpretation of the FAA. As long as they believe they have a mandate and like the IRS U have to prove your innocents instead of them proving your guilt, they will keep trying to circumvent due process.
They don't need specific FARs. The NTSB court has acknowledged that model airplanes are flying machines and that suitable FARs can be applied to the reckless operators. The FAA has a mandate to regulate commercial and public service drone operators, but not us fun flyers.

They are not circumventing due process, rather they are beginning to use it effectively.
Old 01-11-2015, 03:52 PM
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What's really awesome? Any of us can build a 250 lb airplane, stuff 65hp in it and 5 gallons of gas, then jump in it and fly pretty much anywhere outside class A,B,C or D airspace, and up to 14500 feet high. No license, no medical or anything. My Sig kadet loaded with FPV gear has to be flown line of sight, and under 400 feet, or Jonny Law is going to come visit......where's my BS flag!
Old 01-11-2015, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bw5493
What's really awesome? Any of us can build a 250 lb airplane, stuff 65hp in it and 5 gallons of gas, then jump in it and fly pretty much anywhere outside class A,B,C or D airspace, and up to 14500 feet high. No license, no medical or anything. My Sig kadet loaded with FPV gear has to be flown line of sight, and under 400 feet, or Jonny Law is going to come visit......where's my BS flag!
And which aircraft do you think would be easier to spot for an scale aircraft.....your ultralight, or your RC Plane? See the difference?
Old 01-11-2015, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bw5493
What's really awesome? Any of us can build a 250 lb airplane, stuff 65hp in it and 5 gallons of gas, then jump in it and fly pretty much anywhere outside class A,B,C or D airspace, and up to 14500 feet high. No license, no medical or anything. My Sig kadet loaded with FPV gear has to be flown line of sight, and under 400 feet, or Jonny Law is going to come visit......where's my BS flag!
I don't know what kind of home-built you are talking about, but you would have to do something really stupid and dangerous with your kadet to get the law after you.
Old 01-11-2015, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnShe
I don't know what kind of home-built you are talking about, but you would have to do something really stupid and dangerous with your kadet to get the law after you.

Well, according to what the FAA was proposing, we can fly under AMA safety code, which say line of sight, under 400 feet, and a safety pilot standing by. In the US, you can fly on board a legal ultralight, kit or factory built, meeting the FAR part 103rules which is an real full size aircraft if you will. My 70 inch Kadet flying with 3 cameras I can switch between, one that can go 360 degrees so I have as good or better visibility than a full scale, I am being severely hampered. I also have 2 strobes from life jackets that can be seen for up to 2 miles in daylight, and God only knows how far at night, mounted just like full scale on the wing tips.

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