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Florida Jets 2015 Powerbox I Gyro 3e Special

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Florida Jets 2015 Powerbox I Gyro 3e Special

Old 02-20-2015, 10:08 AM
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Ali
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Default Florida Jets 2015 Powerbox I Gyro 3e Special

I think that there has never been a better time to get into using gyros. I have been using them for around 10 years now in a variety of different models, with a variety of different results. Most good, but some not so good. The tech thats available today is by far the best its ever been. In my opinion The I gyro 3e is the best all round system that I have used to date. It is the easiest to set up and least intrusive. They make a bad plane better, and a good plane better still. They improve the all round handling of any aircraft, and make the whole flying experience more enjoyable.
I fully understand and respect that there are some out there that will never embrace the use of gyros. That is their loss. Who I am appealing to is those that are sat on the fence and would like to give them a try. Maybe they are put off by the fear of installing them and setting them up, or by just the general unknown. For me, thats a shame to see that happen as I know that there are many people out there who would enjoy flying more with a 3e onboard.
So. here's an idea I had. I am travelling to Florida jets this time next week. I will spend next weekend down at Markham park in Miami and plan to head up to Lakeland the early part of the following week. I would be more than prepared to bring some Powerbox Igyro 3e's with me for those interested. I would be prepared to set them up for people and if they wanted, I would happily stand by them for the set up flights. I would even be prepared to do the set up flights for them.( Normally this only takes two flights ) This is not a sales campaign. I don't want to be involved in the selling aspect. I still have to work out how to do this, but I can say that any units supplied will be in keeping with the current US retail price of $215.00.
There is no charge for my service or time. I just want to help people enjoy flying more. I am so confident in the product that I will stick my neck out and say that if anyone pays their money and gets a 3e is unhappy with it after flying with it. Or notices no difference. I will get them their money back. No questions asked.
As I said. This is not a sales campaign. It's just an idea that I had which I thought maybe of help to some. There will be some issues to work out ( How to buy them is the first one, as well as liability if I am asked to fly someones aircraft. But I am sure these are easy work arounds )
Let me know if anyone is interested and if you think its a good idea?
Regards Al
Old 02-20-2015, 10:19 AM
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essyou35
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Im not against gyros, just against those who use them then criticize other's flying skills.

If I were going I would take you up on the offer to try one out with someone who knows how it should behave. Then I would know I am getting the most out of it.
Old 02-20-2015, 05:19 PM
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Awesome of you to offer that Ali..I have the Cortex in my Hawk and love it. I need another one for my new FB ef2000. I am planning on picking up a 3e for it at the event.

If you like you are welcome to fly my Hawk if you don't have anything else to fly.

I would love to see it flown by a person of your ability.

See you there.
Old 02-20-2015, 09:39 PM
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Hello Ali,
I hope you'll pardon this intrusion into your kind offer, but you seem to have had a GREAT deal of experience with incorporating gyros in your jets and perhaps other aircraft. If you have a moment, would you mind voicing you opinion regarding using tech like the iGyro for emergency stabilization of twin engine prop aircraft during a single engine failure? I've got a lovely Robart P38 set up with DA85s and contra-rotating engines, but I have NO CLUE if a gyro could be used to provide enough control movement to hold a '38 stable during a single engine failure. I know, if the model could communicate WHICH engine failed, and I was REALLY focused on such an emergency, I "should" be able to hold it--- but how often is it likely we will HEAR the engine failure with all the other models in the pattern. If the iGyro (or any other type) could even give us 5 SECONDS of warning of an engine out situation, at least we could prepare, rather than the discover the problem after a near instantaneous snap and spin. That's a heck of a way to find out you've got a problem! If you think it worth the effort, please help me save this lovely model before it catches me napping.

Thanks,
langerl
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Old 02-20-2015, 10:05 PM
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Very generous offer and I'm sure the help will be greatly appreciated. Great way to help people understand the value of 3-axis gyros and get them over the perceived learning curve. *thumbs up*
Old 02-21-2015, 08:23 AM
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Ali, that is a very generous offer. Thank You! I don't have a 3e yet but I do have a Demon Cortex in my ESM PC21 from Troy Built Models. It hasn't been flown with the gyro yet but I expect to ring it out during the upcoming season. However a 3e is in the future for my Reaction X and likely my F-22. When Maine Jets comes around I'd like to have you check the systems out.
Old 02-21-2015, 10:30 AM
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I went out and tested the 3e Gyro in some less than ideal conditions. It was blowing at approx 15 mph and 70-90 deg cross wind at a field that is well known for being bumpy. The L-29 flew just as if it was 3 mph headwind. This is the biggest plus point of any gyro in my opinion. To make a plane fly better in less than ideal conditions made flying far more fun. On a lesser Gyro system you can find that the model either bounces around as the gyro tries to dampen out the lumps and bumps, or even fight you and make the controls feel dead or laboured. I honestly could not feel any of that today. I do really like a gyro and today proved to me how well they work and that the 3e is the best of them!
Old 02-21-2015, 10:39 AM
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Ali
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Thanks for the kind words guys. Essyou. Maybe if we catch up at another event? I would be happy to help. Jeff. Thanks for the offer of a flight on the hawk. I actually have a few planes of my own to fly, but if its of any help I am always happy to fly for people. Thanks Dantley. Exactly my idea/ Hopes.
Iangrel. I would love to say to you that the Gyro would give you what you are looking for on your P-38. But I have a feeling I would be wrong if I did. I have a large ME 262 ( 1\3 rd scale ) That has a Gyro fitted and I have had 2 flame outs and found that the gyro did assist, but not enough to make the plane flyable on one. I think what you are looking for is a flight control system. The 3e in the heading hold mode will probably be the best out there, or maybe the Big Igyro with the boost function on. But I just get the feeling that it won't hold a single engine situation. But.. I am 100% sure it will help and make it more manageable. As well as improve the locked in feel on all Axis's during the rest of the flight. John. If I can be of help at any event, then please ask.
Regards Al
Old 02-21-2015, 11:16 AM
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Thanks Ali. I appreciate you taking a moment for the feedback. I suspected you'd say as much. Anyhow, it was worth a shot... If you can recommend a "flight control" system you think might point me in the right direction, that would help our entire P38 pilots association. AND might just save my 262 also.

Regards,
Lynn
Old 02-21-2015, 12:42 PM
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Ali
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Hi Lynn.
The only flight control system that I can suggest is……...


Old 02-21-2015, 10:10 PM
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langerl
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Ah. Thank you Master Po. This Grasshopper will try to apply your wisdom....
(And BTW, I'll bet with the low, off center thrust lines AND the widely space engines, your BIG 262 would be more of a handful than a '38 during singe engine flight! That's why my 262 is gonna' be a singe engine fuse install!)

Regards and thanks again,
Lynn
Old 02-22-2015, 11:40 AM
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Hi Lynn.
Yes. The 262 was a real handful with. Not one that I look forward to having a single engine situation with in a hurry. I too had a single turbine Grumania version and that was far less stressful to operate. Good luck with your 38. It looks great and a model that is on my expansive bucket list for sure.

Regards Al
Old 02-22-2015, 01:04 PM
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Lynn,
That's the reason I setup the gyros in my SR-71... to be that extra insurance incase of engine issues. Much to my surprise, was an increased stability, especially in gusty wind conditions. I set mine up to help the most when my sticks were near center, but then fade away as you get off center. I spend little time at extreme stick positions with this plane, but when I do, I didn't want a gryo dampening my inputs. Likewise, I rationalized, if I had an engine issue, it would probably not be during the few seconds I was rolling, out of a minute of normal flight, going around the airfield. If you were setting up a 3-D aircraft, my thinking would not apply, but for a complex twin, flown mostly scale, it works great.

I found this out first hand a couple years ago. While at a large jet meet, I did a high speed fly-by, and mid field pulled up to a 45 degree upline for a climb out. Just as I passed mid field, a high pitched whine started coming from the plane. Not many others heard it, but I knew it did not sound right. I did a short lap, and confirmed the sound, and started to realize the plane was feeling a little bit off. I decided to land, did a short 2nd lap (gear pass, but instead of a full lap, as soon as I confirmed gear, turn out, midfield). By the time I was landing, I could feel the plane skidding in yaw a fair amount, and was cross controlling about 1/3 of the stick travel. I was able to land safely, without a scratch, albeit a bit extra rubber off the tires, as I was not tracking straight on touch down.

In reality, what had happened was the when the whine started, the compressor face had failed, and partially disintegrated. This resulted in one engine loosing about half it's thrust. Later that night, I looked at the moment this happened in the Weatronic logs (the Weatronic receiver logs all data for review later), and was stunned to see that at the moment of near engine failure, the rudders cranked in 30% all on their own, to assist keep the plane stable. After that initial moment, they continued to help, while the pilot (me) got their head out of the sand, and got the plane down.

I came away from this with a couple conclusions....
1. The gyro's built into the Weatronics receiver did exactly what I had hoped they would do when I set them up.... jump in with both feet should I ever have an engine issue and help get the plane back on the ground.
2. If you have an engine issue, land IMMEDIATELY. I took about 90 seconds to get on the ground. In that time, the speed continued to decay, making my problem harder to manage. My problem, was that gyro's helped so much, that I did not appreciate how bad the problem was. Next time, The moment I suspect anything, it will be setting up for landing right away.

But to answer your question, yes, for me, they bought me those critical seconds at the start of an issue, so that I could mentally get in front of it and get it back on the ground. 15 years ago, I had a Yellow aircraft SR-71 (ducted fan) go into a spin because of engine failure, and after reviewing the video tape, saw that from the moment the smoke came out that side (engine failure), the uncontrolled spin happened 5-6 seconds later.

So, to go from that outcome, to only feeling something was amiss by a little bit, on the gyro assisted, turbine SR-71, 30 seconded to a minute or so in, is a huge leap forward in stability and safety, I think.

Hope it helps.
Thanks,
Lance

P.S. I'm sure all the current brand of gyro's are all good for providing this kind of 'insurance', I just don't have experience with them yet.

Last edited by Lance Campbell; 02-22-2015 at 01:55 PM.
Old 02-22-2015, 02:25 PM
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Thanks for all the feedback guys. I will most probably go with some sort of gyro assist, and as Lance points out, I suspect it will at least give me some inkling of a problem; enough time to mentally say, "Oh, s**t!" and then apply some corrective inputs--hopefully with some technological assist from the gyro.
One last thought, and I will leave you gentleman. As you've no doubt noticed, I'm running twin DA85s in the '38; not because I'm a speed freak but to turn near scale props. Do you think applying MORE power to the single remaining engine is more likely to induce dangerous yaw? I'm thinking I could kill my safe flight envelope just by adding what excess power I have in the DA85. I considered the Twin Synch for a good while--even helped a local fella' beta test the prototypes on some of his twins. Properly installed they seem to work great. They automatically pull back your GOOD engine to idle when they detect a pre-set engine RPM differential. Enough, I hoped to give me a warning of an engine fail and then to advance the good engine, s l o w l y, easing back into the power to insure a "controlled" approach to the emergency.
In theory, this should help avert a flight emergency. In practice, all the folks but my initial beta tester buddy found they nearly LOST a twin or two from spurious Twin Synch throttle cuts, on fully functional engines. So, unless the folks flying the fault Twin Synchs had a poor equipment install (which I seriously doubt), I think the gyro remains the best option.
If I had any sense, I shoulda' stayed away from twins, like any rational human being. Now with a 1/5scale '38, a nifty He 219, a 1/8th scale B-17 (75lbs worth) and a 1/5th scale B-26K (Counter Invader) in the hangar, I guess its time to admit to the mental aberration and make the best of it.

Thanks again for all the help and advice.
Regards,
Lynn
Old 02-22-2015, 04:14 PM
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[QUOTE=Ali;11987185
I fully understand and respect that there are some out there that will never embrace the use of gyros. That is their loss. Who I am appealing to is those that are sat on the fence and would like to give them a try. Maybe they are put off by the fear of installing them and setting them up, or by just the general unknown. For me, thats a shame to see that happen as I know that there are many people out there who would enjoy flying more with a 3e onboard.

Regards Al[/QUOTE]

I would have to agree with Ali... I was a gyro hold out for a long time.... They make the flying experience that much more enjoyable... Remember,,,, a gyro won't do a slow roll, point roll, knife edge chatter roll etc etc for you... You absolutely still have to perform your aerobatics the old fashion way... "brain to thumb"....

Last edited by AFTERBURNER1; 02-22-2015 at 04:21 PM.
Old 02-22-2015, 06:28 PM
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Default Gyro at Marham (Jets over the Turnpike!)

Ali- I am sitting on the fence and all for meeting up with you at Markham! What dates will you be there and I will make it over to meet you... Thanks!
-Paul Greenberg

(ps- We have met briefly once... you flew my L-39 a few years back at a Jet event)....


Originally Posted by Ali
I think that there has never been a better time to get into using gyros. I have been using them for around 10 years now in a variety of different models, with a variety of different results. Most good, but some not so good. The tech thats available today is by far the best its ever been. In my opinion The I gyro 3e is the best all round system that I have used to date. It is the easiest to set up and least intrusive. They make a bad plane better, and a good plane better still. They improve the all round handling of any aircraft, and make the whole flying experience more enjoyable.
I fully understand and respect that there are some out there that will never embrace the use of gyros. That is their loss. Who I am appealing to is those that are sat on the fence and would like to give them a try. Maybe they are put off by the fear of installing them and setting them up, or by just the general unknown. For me, thats a shame to see that happen as I know that there are many people out there who would enjoy flying more with a 3e onboard.
So. here's an idea I had. I am travelling to Florida jets this time next week. I will spend next weekend down at Markham park in Miami and plan to head up to Lakeland the early part of the following week. I would be more than prepared to bring some Powerbox Igyro 3e's with me for those interested. I would be prepared to set them up for people and if they wanted, I would happily stand by them for the set up flights. I would even be prepared to do the set up flights for them.( Normally this only takes two flights ) This is not a sales campaign. I don't want to be involved in the selling aspect. I still have to work out how to do this, but I can say that any units supplied will be in keeping with the current US retail price of $215.00.
There is no charge for my service or time. I just want to help people enjoy flying more. I am so confident in the product that I will stick my neck out and say that if anyone pays their money and gets a 3e is unhappy with it after flying with it. Or notices no difference. I will get them their money back. No questions asked.
As I said. This is not a sales campaign. It's just an idea that I had which I thought maybe of help to some. There will be some issues to work out ( How to buy them is the first one, as well as liability if I am asked to fly someones aircraft. But I am sure these are easy work arounds )
Let me know if anyone is interested and if you think its a good idea?
Regards Al
Old 02-23-2015, 05:01 AM
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Get off the fence, try it and you will love it.
Old 02-23-2015, 10:21 AM
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essyou35
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I'll be using one for sure on my a-10 when I get there. There wont be any shame in it for me, but if I see someone land one on one engine without a gyro I will be signing up for flying lessons with that person.
Old 02-23-2015, 02:41 PM
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Ali I just put a cortex on a BVM T-33 but have an F-86 I may want to try this on and compare both back to back.
Old 02-24-2015, 09:15 AM
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Ali
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Hoser. They are both planes that benefit from a Gyro… Lots ! You will be happy with both I am sure. Having the two side by side is a great comparison. I did that and am glad that I did. Whilst I won't be throwing my Cortex's away… I won't be buying another.
Old 02-24-2015, 09:20 AM
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Ali
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Hoser. They are both planes that benefit from a Gyro… Lots ! You will be happy with both I am sure. Having the two side by side is a great comparison. I did that and am glad that I did. Whilst I won't be throwing my Cortex's away… I won't be buying another.
Old 02-24-2015, 09:22 AM
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Ali
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Some good news. I have just been told that Powerbox are Fed Ex'ing 15 x of the 3e's that have just been produced to me tomorrow. All being well I should have then just before I leave so will have them at Markham park the weekend before Florida jets for those wanting them installed and set up before hand. I should then have another 20 pieces arriving on the Thursday of Florida jets so stocks are all good !
Regards Al
Old 02-24-2015, 09:31 AM
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Al how about some stick time on one of your jets so I can see just how well the 3e works? See you at FL jets.
Old 02-24-2015, 09:41 AM
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Ali
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Since you asked so nicely Bob……… No! Although I am sure we can come to some sort of arrangement involving a non refundable deposit that is given up if the model is damaged in anyway.. Starting at $12k. Is that ok with you?
Regards Al
Old 02-24-2015, 09:49 AM
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Wouldn't cost me any less than my divorce.

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