Xicoy Electronic C.G. Balancer
03-16-2015, 02:56 PM
#26
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CaloundraQueensland , AUSTRALIA
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Interesting question indeed .... when I asked about mine and expressed my disappointment for having to wait so long (after Dreamworks and others have already sold out and shipped their first shipments) I was refunded and told that I was expecting more than could reasonably be expected for 100% customer satisfaction.
So I guess having now had to re-order from another source; means that I will NEVER deal with Ultimate Jets again.
Hope your experience ends better than mine.
Cheers,
Jan
So I guess having now had to re-order from another source; means that I will NEVER deal with Ultimate Jets again.
Hope your experience ends better than mine.
Cheers,
Jan
Jan give Phil Celima a ring from Jet Products Australia that who i order mine through mine should be here this week
Damo
03-16-2015, 04:52 PM
#27
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
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Thanks mate, but I have already odered one from Peter at Intairco - should have done that in the first place, but was keen to get one when they were originally announced. Peter has had his first batch in stock, sold and delivered, before I got refunded.
Oh well, this is how it goes sometime.
Cheers,
Jan
03-16-2015, 05:06 PM
#28
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CaloundraQueensland , AUSTRALIA
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No worries Jan mines going to be here tomorrow can't wait to have a play with it. I going to setup the F18 up on it
Damo
Damo
Last edited by Damo260; 03-16-2015 at 05:13 PM.
03-16-2015, 07:59 PM
#29
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: yorba linda,
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I got a chance to play with one of these at the weekend and it's a great bit of kit. However, unless I've missed something, a minor tweak to the displayed information would make it even better, in my opinion.
The system must calculate the current c.g. (and it does show you graphically with an arrow) but it doesn't give you a figure. I think it would be nice if, as well as telling you the amount of weight to add and remove to obtain the entered c.g. position, it actually told you where the current c.g. was in relation to that position (e.g. 10mm forward of datum).
The system must calculate the current c.g. (and it does show you graphically with an arrow) but it doesn't give you a figure. I think it would be nice if, as well as telling you the amount of weight to add and remove to obtain the entered c.g. position, it actually told you where the current c.g. was in relation to that position (e.g. 10mm forward of datum).
I got mine last week. It's AWESOME. It would be even better if it gave you a number on the current cg rather than only the displayed arrow.
Love the dished scale tops. Makes it really easy to do the job. By far the easiest, safest method I've ever used and I think I've done them all. Great Job, Gaspar! Very Clever!
Got mine from Ultimate-Jets. Oli gave me a heads up on the first batch a couple months ago and I appreciate that. I'm sure they will sell out as fast as Gaspar can make them for a while.
03-16-2015, 08:19 PM
#30
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Interesting question indeed .... when I asked about mine and expressed my disappointment for having to wait so long (after Dreamworks and others have already sold out and shipped their first shipments) I was refunded and told that I was expecting more than could reasonably be expected for 100% customer satisfaction.
So I guess having now had to re-order from another source; means that I will NEVER deal with Ultimate Jets again.
Hope your experience ends better than mine.
Cheers,
Jan
So I guess having now had to re-order from another source; means that I will NEVER deal with Ultimate Jets again.
Hope your experience ends better than mine.
Cheers,
Jan
03-17-2015, 12:01 AM
#32
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Arenys de Munt- BARCELONA, SPAIN
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Hi,
Thanks for the positive comments.
Regarding the current CG measure, we have a new software available that show the current CG location in mm., see picture below. Please contact us or your dealer for the upgrade file and instructions.
About availability, my fault 100%. I greatly under estimated the popularity of this device, and when I realized that sales were happening faster than expected, I placed a new order of parts, but the supplier in Netherlands of the weight sensors gave us 8 weeks of delivery delay. In the meantime I have tested another supplier, but quality is not the same, so will wait, order should arrive in April, 15th. Promised by supplier to shorten the time, but until I see the sensors here, I would not commit.
BTW, there is a upgrade in the works for this device, that is the replacement of the weight sensors by angle sensors with a resolution of 0.1º. Using two, you will be able to measure the throws of both ailerons/tailerons at same time, shown in graphical form, in degrees and in mm. Using the 3th as reference, it would be possible to quickly adjust, for example, flaps to elevator mix. Placing the 3th at 0º(flight line) will be possible to measure the wing incidence, check for warped wings, etc. Current owners of CGMeters will be able to purchase the sensor kit.
PLEASE... this is still in development phase, this has been suggested by a current user (Thanks Phil) and just we have begun the development, so I don't have a delivery date nor detailed specifications yet. Please be patient!. Suggestions welcome.
Gaspar
Image courtesy from Julio Correia
Thanks for the positive comments.
Regarding the current CG measure, we have a new software available that show the current CG location in mm., see picture below. Please contact us or your dealer for the upgrade file and instructions.
About availability, my fault 100%. I greatly under estimated the popularity of this device, and when I realized that sales were happening faster than expected, I placed a new order of parts, but the supplier in Netherlands of the weight sensors gave us 8 weeks of delivery delay. In the meantime I have tested another supplier, but quality is not the same, so will wait, order should arrive in April, 15th. Promised by supplier to shorten the time, but until I see the sensors here, I would not commit.
BTW, there is a upgrade in the works for this device, that is the replacement of the weight sensors by angle sensors with a resolution of 0.1º. Using two, you will be able to measure the throws of both ailerons/tailerons at same time, shown in graphical form, in degrees and in mm. Using the 3th as reference, it would be possible to quickly adjust, for example, flaps to elevator mix. Placing the 3th at 0º(flight line) will be possible to measure the wing incidence, check for warped wings, etc. Current owners of CGMeters will be able to purchase the sensor kit.
PLEASE... this is still in development phase, this has been suggested by a current user (Thanks Phil) and just we have begun the development, so I don't have a delivery date nor detailed specifications yet. Please be patient!. Suggestions welcome.
Gaspar
03-17-2015, 12:06 AM
#33
The point is that we took one week to deliver the pre-production units after we received them.
This is the time it took for us to fully test all the CG machines before we shipped them and confirm that they were 100% bug free.
I am a not cardboard mover but an aerospace certified engineer. I do not practice quick turnaround on pre-release units. If some customers don't like this, I do not ask questions and refund immediately.
Similarly, it took us 6 months to put the BAT60 on the market. I can tell you that Weatronic was not too happy about this. However we have MIL certification on this set and have a proven record of 1500 test hours on 4 different units.
All our customer are 100% happy with the product. This is how I do things. Quality and safety is paramount to me.
Once again, if a customer is not happy about this fact, no problem. I refund immediately.
03-17-2015, 12:12 AM
#34
Once again. I consider this device as the most significant innovation for RC flight safety since dual redundancy 2.4 Ghz.
We want to do things right here and get 100% of the units and new feature working well for the modeller.
As such I personally validated that the CG computation was done right and that the software was bug free.
What is the point of having a fancy device if the formula behind is wrong? I can tell you here that Gaspar nailed it.
We want to do things right here and get 100% of the units and new feature working well for the modeller.
As such I personally validated that the CG computation was done right and that the software was bug free.
What is the point of having a fancy device if the formula behind is wrong? I can tell you here that Gaspar nailed it.
03-17-2015, 06:46 AM
#35
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Marietta,
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Put mine on order with Linda this morning. Great product, long overdue. Now I can CG my models as I do at work?
03-17-2015, 10:36 AM
#36
Firmware 1.1 as well as user manual v1.1 are available in the download section of the product page.
The firmware update process is very straightforward and is done via a micro SD card formatted in FAT 16 or FAT 32.
The procedure is detailed in the last page of the user manual.
http://www.ultimate-jets.net/product...tal-cg-machine
The firmware update process is very straightforward and is done via a micro SD card formatted in FAT 16 or FAT 32.
The procedure is detailed in the last page of the user manual.
http://www.ultimate-jets.net/product...tal-cg-machine
03-17-2015, 12:58 PM
#37
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: yorba linda,
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That will make this device PERFECT!
I only like to add any weight to the model as a last resort. With this new mod it will make it so easy to move turbines, pumps, batteries and valves to get the cg right where you want it in real time.
In addition you can test the effects of different fuel loads or smoke oil and see how much affect it will have on CG. Thanks!!
03-17-2015, 06:10 PM
#39
I have developed a log system for the CG machine.
You will be able to consign the model name, date, CG position, ballast weight, fuel quantity, smoke oil quantity, gear position and flight handling characteristics.
This will provide useful reference when you need to check your model at the beginning of the season.
http://www.ultimate-jets.net/collect...tal-cg-machine
I am also working on a custom manual: "CG machine procedures" that enclose practical approach, tips and techniques for using the CG machine.
You will be able to consign the model name, date, CG position, ballast weight, fuel quantity, smoke oil quantity, gear position and flight handling characteristics.
This will provide useful reference when you need to check your model at the beginning of the season.
http://www.ultimate-jets.net/collect...tal-cg-machine
I am also working on a custom manual: "CG machine procedures" that enclose practical approach, tips and techniques for using the CG machine.
03-18-2015, 06:22 AM
#40
Hi,
Thanks for the positive comments.
Regarding the current CG measure, we have a new software available that show the current CG location in mm., see picture below. Please contact us or your dealer for the upgrade file and instructions.
About availability, my fault 100%. I greatly under estimated the popularity of this device, and when I realized that sales were happening faster than expected, I placed a new order of parts, but the supplier in Netherlands of the weight sensors gave us 8 weeks of delivery delay. In the meantime I have tested another supplier, but quality is not the same, so will wait, order should arrive in April, 15th. Promised by supplier to shorten the time, but until I see the sensors here, I would not commit.
BTW, there is a upgrade in the works for this device, that is the replacement of the weight sensors by angle sensors with a resolution of 0.1º. Using two, you will be able to measure the throws of both ailerons/tailerons at same time, shown in graphical form, in degrees and in mm. Using the 3th as reference, it would be possible to quickly adjust, for example, flaps to elevator mix. Placing the 3th at 0º(flight line) will be possible to measure the wing incidence, check for warped wings, etc. Current owners of CGMeters will be able to purchase the sensor kit.
PLEASE... this is still in development phase, this has been suggested by a current user (Thanks Phil) and just we have begun the development, so I don't have a delivery date nor detailed specifications yet. Please be patient!. Suggestions welcome.
Gaspar
Image courtesy from Julio Correia
Thanks for the positive comments.
Regarding the current CG measure, we have a new software available that show the current CG location in mm., see picture below. Please contact us or your dealer for the upgrade file and instructions.
About availability, my fault 100%. I greatly under estimated the popularity of this device, and when I realized that sales were happening faster than expected, I placed a new order of parts, but the supplier in Netherlands of the weight sensors gave us 8 weeks of delivery delay. In the meantime I have tested another supplier, but quality is not the same, so will wait, order should arrive in April, 15th. Promised by supplier to shorten the time, but until I see the sensors here, I would not commit.
BTW, there is a upgrade in the works for this device, that is the replacement of the weight sensors by angle sensors with a resolution of 0.1º. Using two, you will be able to measure the throws of both ailerons/tailerons at same time, shown in graphical form, in degrees and in mm. Using the 3th as reference, it would be possible to quickly adjust, for example, flaps to elevator mix. Placing the 3th at 0º(flight line) will be possible to measure the wing incidence, check for warped wings, etc. Current owners of CGMeters will be able to purchase the sensor kit.
PLEASE... this is still in development phase, this has been suggested by a current user (Thanks Phil) and just we have begun the development, so I don't have a delivery date nor detailed specifications yet. Please be patient!. Suggestions welcome.
Gaspar
03-18-2015, 12:22 PM
#42
I have created a set of conical supports for those who want to balance the plane with the gear up ( to check the influence of the gear on the CG position) or who have gliders.
These are CNC machined from 3 blocks of nylon and have a small flat surface of 3/4 in at the to with a felt pad.
The bottom of the cone has a slight taper to self center on the scale sensor.
These are CNC machined from 3 blocks of nylon and have a small flat surface of 3/4 in at the to with a felt pad.
The bottom of the cone has a slight taper to self center on the scale sensor.
03-19-2015, 12:39 AM
#43
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Cape Town, SOUTH AFRICA
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Nice gizmo.
For those who don't have one here is how easy it is.
What you need:
1 x Digital scale able to handle at least half of model weight + 30% or so.
3 x blocks of wood or something as high as the scale.
1 x calculator.
Place blocks under each wheel, on level surface obviously.
Replace each block in turn with the scale.
Note the readings.
The total is the weight of the plane BTW.
Calculate the total of the two main wheel readings.
Use the nose-wheel reading and divide into total of main wheels.
Note the fraction.
Measure distance between wheels.
Multiply distance by fraction.
The answer is the distance forward of the main wheels and location of COG.
Adjust with nose/tail weight or moving batteries until in spec.
Apart from total weight the accuracy of the scale is not important, only the repeatability.
When done you can use the scale for mixing epoxy, resin etc....
Any three points on the jet would work, not just the wheels.
It really is that simple.
Does the picture in your school textbook with the heavy kid and smaller kid on the see-saw ring a bell?
Andre
For those who don't have one here is how easy it is.
What you need:
1 x Digital scale able to handle at least half of model weight + 30% or so.
3 x blocks of wood or something as high as the scale.
1 x calculator.
Place blocks under each wheel, on level surface obviously.
Replace each block in turn with the scale.
Note the readings.
The total is the weight of the plane BTW.
Calculate the total of the two main wheel readings.
Use the nose-wheel reading and divide into total of main wheels.
Note the fraction.
Measure distance between wheels.
Multiply distance by fraction.
The answer is the distance forward of the main wheels and location of COG.
Adjust with nose/tail weight or moving batteries until in spec.
Apart from total weight the accuracy of the scale is not important, only the repeatability.
When done you can use the scale for mixing epoxy, resin etc....
Any three points on the jet would work, not just the wheels.
It really is that simple.
Does the picture in your school textbook with the heavy kid and smaller kid on the see-saw ring a bell?
Andre
03-19-2015, 01:49 AM
#44
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Turbo, I use that method but you said -
"The total is the weight of the plane BTW.
Calculate the total of the two main wheel readings.
Use the nose-wheel reading and divide into total of main wheels."
That's an error, it should be "Use the nosewheel reading and divide by total weight of the plane", not into total of main wheels.
You don't actually need to calculate total weight of main wheels, all you need is total plane weight and nosewheel weight.
Think about it. If balance point is midway between mains and nose, then nose weight and total main weight are equal. If you divide nose by mains you get 1, if you divide nose by total you get 0.5. Since balance point is midway, 0.5 is the correct answer. Also you are dividing nose weight by total weight, not into total weight. If you divide into total weight you get a number greater than 1 instead of a fraction.
"The total is the weight of the plane BTW.
Calculate the total of the two main wheel readings.
Use the nose-wheel reading and divide into total of main wheels."
That's an error, it should be "Use the nosewheel reading and divide by total weight of the plane", not into total of main wheels.
You don't actually need to calculate total weight of main wheels, all you need is total plane weight and nosewheel weight.
Think about it. If balance point is midway between mains and nose, then nose weight and total main weight are equal. If you divide nose by mains you get 1, if you divide nose by total you get 0.5. Since balance point is midway, 0.5 is the correct answer. Also you are dividing nose weight by total weight, not into total weight. If you divide into total weight you get a number greater than 1 instead of a fraction.
03-19-2015, 02:06 AM
#45
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Cape Town, SOUTH AFRICA
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Turbo, I use that method but you said -
"The total is the weight of the plane BTW.
Calculate the total of the two main wheel readings.
Use the nose-wheel reading and divide into total of main wheels."
That's an error, it should be "Use the nosewheel reading and divide by total weight of the plane", not into total of main wheels.
You don't actually need to calculate total weight of main wheels, all you need is total plane weight and nosewheel weight.
Think about it. If balance point is midway between mains and nose, then nose weight and total main weight are equal. If you divide nose by mains you get 1, if you divide nose by total you get 0.5. Since balance point is midway, 0.5 is the correct answer. Also you are dividing nose weight by total weight, not into total weight. If you divide into total weight you get a number greater than 1 instead of a fraction.
"The total is the weight of the plane BTW.
Calculate the total of the two main wheel readings.
Use the nose-wheel reading and divide into total of main wheels."
That's an error, it should be "Use the nosewheel reading and divide by total weight of the plane", not into total of main wheels.
You don't actually need to calculate total weight of main wheels, all you need is total plane weight and nosewheel weight.
Think about it. If balance point is midway between mains and nose, then nose weight and total main weight are equal. If you divide nose by mains you get 1, if you divide nose by total you get 0.5. Since balance point is midway, 0.5 is the correct answer. Also you are dividing nose weight by total weight, not into total weight. If you divide into total weight you get a number greater than 1 instead of a fraction.
Wanted to make the point that nosewheel and main-wheels form a fulcrum of which the CG is the rest point.
So weight of main wheels times distance to CG must be equal to nose-wheel weight times distance to CG.
That simplifies to what you said....
Last edited by Turbotronic; 03-19-2015 at 02:09 AM.
03-19-2015, 02:28 AM
#46
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The simplest way is add up weight of all 3 wheels. Divide weight on nosewheel by total of all 3 wheels. That fraction is the fraction forward from main wheels of the distance mains to nose. For example, weight on nosewheel is 1kg, total weight on all 3 wheels is 10kg, distance main to nosewheel is 1metre, then balance point is 1/10 of distance i.e. 10cm forward from main wheels. Couldn't be simpler.
03-19-2015, 01:49 PM
#47
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: yorba linda,
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The beauty of this device is ease of use. No calculators! It frees up your brain for other uses.
I did this night before last. Everything was located in the plane except for the batteries. Had the rig all fired up and just kept moving the three batteries around until I found the spot that got the CG onto target and would accommodate the batteries. It literally was so fast and easy I found myself finding the CG on brooms and rakes lying around in the shop. It's a little pricey but it's a very high quality tool. On an $8500 jet it doesn't seem so bad. The cost of a couple servos.
I did this night before last. Everything was located in the plane except for the batteries. Had the rig all fired up and just kept moving the three batteries around until I found the spot that got the CG onto target and would accommodate the batteries. It literally was so fast and easy I found myself finding the CG on brooms and rakes lying around in the shop. It's a little pricey but it's a very high quality tool. On an $8500 jet it doesn't seem so bad. The cost of a couple servos.
03-19-2015, 05:42 PM
#48
The whole point of this device is safety.
This is achieved using a simple weight method, through a simple graphic interface with memory.
This system is compact and easy to take at the field. Balancing rocedure takes less than one minute.
This is achieved using a simple weight method, through a simple graphic interface with memory.
This system is compact and easy to take at the field. Balancing rocedure takes less than one minute.
