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Xicoy Electronic C.G. Balancer

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Xicoy Electronic C.G. Balancer

Old 03-13-2017, 11:06 AM
  #351  
thebluemax
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t1callahan
I think your logic comparing to the GP balancer is flawed. Unless you place the plane exactly on the same spot of the GP balancer every time you will get different readings. At least i always did. I build with magnets so I have a sheet of metal on my building table. I drew a line across the width of the metal and the main gear and scales always go on that line. I also draw another line down the center of the entire length of the table, The nose wheel or tail wheel scales always go on that line. So with the main gear on that line that goes across the table I drop a line at the LE of the wing at the side of the fuse and make a mark on the table. I then measure from that LE mark at the fuse back to where the CG is and make a mark there. So this is also at the side of the fuse. Then I measure the distance from that CG mark back or forward depending on the gear location to the center line across the table that the main gear sits on.

I measure the distance from the mains to the nose or tail wheel by starting at the center line the main gear is on along the center line that goes lengthwise on the table either back for the tail wheel or forward to the nose gear. The same thing is done for the weight placement. But in short every measurement is along with the center line for the main gear of the center line for the nose/tail wheel.

Hope this all make sense. But every plane I ever balanced with that GP CG machine never came out the same. Every plane I balanced before and then used the Xicoy, I had to take weight out. I have used the Xicoy to balance 40 size to 1/4 scale planes. So it works...
Good luck
Bill

Last edited by thebluemax; 03-13-2017 at 11:12 AM.
Old 03-13-2017, 11:56 AM
  #352  
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Bill, I will definitely try the line method, this seems more accurate than what I was doing. I have a big Dry erase I will board I build on so I think that will work perfectly. To clarify further, what you're saying is that If I'm targeting a CG that is 4.5" back from LE (near fuselage), I should not be concerned with the fact that at the point where the landing gear are, the CG is no longer at 4.5" back? Just measure near fuselage? The Line method seems like it will make this easy to measure thats for sure. I will try again tonight and see if that makes a difference.
I realize that in comparing the GP Balancer to the Xicoy cg points, they would differ, but I didn't expect them to be so far off. A couple MM perhaps, or 1/4 oz or so here or there, but they were way off. But alas it could be how I was doing it. Thanks for your reply and I'll try it again tonight.


Tom...
Old 03-13-2017, 12:21 PM
  #353  
thebluemax
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Originally Posted by t1callahan
To clarify further, what you're saying is that If I'm targeting a CG that is 4.5" back from LE (near fuselage), I should not be concerned with the fact that at the point where the landing gear are, the CG is no longer at 4.5" back? Just measure near fuselage?
the line where the main gear crosses the fuse is a reference point and doesn't really matter how far out on the wings the gear are. So lets say the main gear is sitting on the center line for the main gear and for numbers sake it is 6 inches from the leading edge of the wing at the fuse. The 6 is just to give a perspective of where the main gear crosses the center of the fuse. The cg you say is 4.5 inches from the LE. The distance when you measure from the cg to the main gear line should be 1.5 and you would enter 1.5 as that distance between the main gear and the cg. the cg is 4.5 but the system only needs to know the distance between the gear and cg point. I always level the plane first before taking any measurements.

Last edited by thebluemax; 03-13-2017 at 12:27 PM.
Old 03-14-2017, 09:23 AM
  #354  
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After, some trial and error, i was able to get the Xicoy to CG the plan at nearly the same point as the GP balancer. they were within 2-3 MM of each other. Accurate measurement is key, and when my measurement was slightly off, it made the CG different by 1/4 inch. The Xicoy is actually probably more difficult to setup initially, but once the measurements are done, and your setup, it is much easier to move things around and figure out where the CG is.
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Last edited by t1callahan; 03-14-2017 at 09:39 AM.
Old 03-14-2017, 09:58 AM
  #355  
thebluemax
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Originally Posted by t1callahan
After, some trial and error, i was able to get the Xicoy to CG the plan at nearly the same point as the GP balancer. they were within 2-3 MM of each other. Accurate measurement is key, and when my measurement was slightly off, it made the CG different by 1/4 inch. The Xicoy is actually probably more difficult to setup initially, but once the measurements are done, and your setup, it is much easier to move things around and figure out where the CG is.
Good deal. The more you do it the easier the set up is. Before using this I was using the Vanessa set up and it would take a while as you had to wait for everything to stop moving around. The thing is once the lines are drawn and the marks are made for the measurements you can take the plane off the scales to move it out of the way to take the measurements and key them in. Then just make sure everything was the way it was when you took the plane off and you are good to go. I like the idea you used with the framing square against the LE. I will try that on the next plane I balance. I have been using a plumb bob.

Moving things around while on the scales to reduce dead weight is cool. So I usually balance the plane before installing the RX battery and RX. If the servo tray has room to move I wait to put that in as well. then I do it again once everything is in.
Old 03-14-2017, 09:59 AM
  #356  
rcjetsaok
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The Xicoy device is a great tool once you get all the numbers plugged in and are correct. From there while on the scales it allows you to do your component / battery placements and you see changes in real time while you work. All well and good. like I said, great tool... BUT, after all that being said and done, once I'm happy, I'm going back to the teter-totter balancer to confirm before I fly !!!

Dan
Old 03-14-2017, 10:27 AM
  #357  
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I just used the Xicoy to CG my New C130 at a 160in and 76.5 pounds it is not light. I was getting upset as at one point it was telling me to add tail weight, then I reset it all then it wanted me to add nose weight,

I cam to realize this is a tool and any tool not used right will not work as attended. So I took the main wing off, marked the cg, then used a ruler with a plumb bob on it, to help me get an accurate measurement from rear wheels to CG This made all the difference.

Also I added plywood 2'X2' to spread the load for the scale as carpet can mess up the readings.
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:35 AM
  #358  
thebluemax
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Wow!! That is one nice, big looking plane. Good luck with that baby.... Definitely need a hard surface for those scales.
Old 03-21-2017, 02:10 PM
  #359  
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Gaspar,
I purchased your bluetooth CG Balancer, I was wondering how much it would cost to purchase the wired box to use with my unit.

Patrick
Old 03-21-2017, 09:10 PM
  #360  
Kelly Rohrbach
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Originally Posted by rcjetsaok
The Xicoy device is a great tool once you get all the numbers plugged in and are correct. From there while on the scales it allows you to do your component / battery placements and you see changes in real time while you work. All well and good. like I said, great tool... BUT, after all that being said and done, once I'm happy, I'm going back to the teter-totter balancer to confirm before I fly !!!

Dan
We did a test with a KingCat. Very precisely entered in all values an did a perfect balance. Then tested that against one of the best mechanical balancers and proved the xicoy is spot on.
Old 04-20-2017, 05:25 AM
  #361  
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Has anyone used the cones for balancing for a gear up configuration? Where are the cones to be placed? Not much info on how to implement from what I can find.

Thanks,
John
Old 04-20-2017, 05:54 AM
  #362  
Rocketman612
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Originally Posted by jchorak
Has anyone used the cones for balancing for a gear up configuration? Where are the cones to be placed? Not much info on how to implement from what I can find.



Thanks,

John



John,
My friend 3D printed a set for mine. I am going to place then on the pivot point of the gear with them retracted.

Pete
Old 05-26-2017, 04:52 PM
  #363  
BobH
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I just purchased the Xicoy a few weeks ago and upgraded to version 1.4 today.
I fly nearly all tail draggers.. So what is this about Negavite numbers and tail draggers?
Sounds a bit confusing.
So were you to set up a WWI Bipe where would you take measurements so it makes sense.
I took..
1. Main wheel center to CG,
2.Main Wheel center to Tail skid.
3 Near behind the fire wall to CG.
Sound like a reasonable set up?
Thank you.
Old 05-26-2017, 06:02 PM
  #364  
thebluemax
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Originally Posted by BobH
I just purchased the Xicoy a few weeks ago and upgraded to version 1.4 today.
I fly nearly all tail draggers.. So what is this about Negavite numbers and tail draggers?
Sounds a bit confusing.
So were you to set up a WWI Bipe where would you take measurements so it makes sense.
I took..
1. Main wheel center to CG,
2.Main Wheel center to Tail skid.
3 Near behind the fire wall to CG.
Sound like a reasonable set up?
Thank you.
Hi Bob,
I could be wrong but I thought the negative numbers were to show the placement or adding weight to the tail for nose heavy planes and really not for any other measurement or tail draggers vs trike gear. If I am correct, for your example above 1 and 2 are fine. #3 would be positive for adding weight to the nose and negative if adding weight to the tail. That is what I have been doing and have not had any issues with my planes. But I am sure the others will chime in if my assumption and method are incorrect.
Good luck....
Bill
Old 05-26-2017, 07:04 PM
  #365  
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Bill,
Thanks for looking in.
I'm hoping you are correct. I have my Fokker DVI as a test plane for the Xcoy. It was balanced it using the traditional methods, aka fingers etc under the Indicated CG,
The Xicoy shows I may be a bit nose heavy.
Since the plane crashed on its Maiden due to an engine out I'd like to get the CG right before a re-maiden.
Old 05-26-2017, 07:21 PM
  #366  
thebluemax
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Your welcome and I understand.

My take on it is this. the measurements from the mains to the tail wheel or from the mains to the nose gear is a fixed number. If the distance between the mains and the tail wheel is 200mm. Whether it is -200mm or 200mm it is still 200mm from the mains to the tail wheel. The same thing applies going forward to the nose gear. i would also apply the same logic from the mains to the cg. whether you use a negative or positive number it is still the same distance. When is comes to placing the weight their is a difference in the meaning of the number. Since the distance is different in relation to the cg and affects the amount of weight needed to balance.

So I would always use positive for the distance between the mains and the tail or the nose if it is a trike and a positive number for the mains to the cg. I only use the negative number when adding weight to the tail. So far it has worked for me and I have not had any balancing issues.

If I am wrong then I have a lot of re-balancing to do.

Note:
I have used the Xicoy to re-balance every plane I have and on many of them I had to take some weight out. Not much. I think the most was a couple of ounces. The others were so close it did not make a difference to change it. I was using the Vanessa to balance my planes before using the Xicoy. I did check the balance on two planes of my friend as he was having problems balancing them. On his D9 we had to remove 8 ounces from the nose and the AG-Wagon needed the 2 pounds in the nose. He eventually moved the elevator servos around and was able to take out a pound. Both planes flew perfectly after the re-balance.

Last edited by thebluemax; 05-26-2017 at 07:31 PM. Reason: added more.
Old 05-26-2017, 07:46 PM
  #367  
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Bob,
Check out post 259 in this thread. It is on page 7. It describes the use for the negative number, which is for weight placement.
Bill
Old 05-27-2017, 05:42 AM
  #368  
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Bill,
thank you. Think I understand. Lol
Old 06-08-2017, 06:36 AM
  #369  
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Just got the balancer/angle meter yesterday. When I try to connect to BT, it finds the device, but says it is not validated so I do not get any weights or measurements?

What do I need to do to validate it?

It also will not connect to BT4 even though the phone (Galaxy S7) has 4.2 BLE.

Last edited by papatrey; 06-08-2017 at 07:12 AM.
Old 06-08-2017, 08:37 PM
  #370  
Kelly Rohrbach
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I mentioned this sometime ago, if you go to your local print shop/plans exchange you can have them print out a grid on their cad machine. I had them make it in 1" grid and can be made as wide as 4' x 8' more or less. This allows for you to sit the model right on the grid and make very precise measurements using a right angle to measure down from the CG to the grid paper. I know you can draw out on a table but there is still room for error where as the grid is from a cad and is perfect. Also this same grid is EXCELLENT for checking and adjusting the gear toe in or out. It allows you to perfectly square the fuse up to grid then check your toe in, in relation to the model. Cost is about $25.00 and I had mine clear laminated and I think it will last for ever.
Old 06-09-2017, 01:29 AM
  #371  
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Originally Posted by papatrey
Just got the balancer/angle meter yesterday. When I try to connect to BT, it finds the device, but says it is not validated so I do not get any weights or measurements?

What do I need to do to validate it?

It also will not connect to BT4 even though the phone (Galaxy S7) has 4.2 BLE.
First you should do a search for Bluetooth devices.
The phone will display a list of BT devices found. Select the Xicoy CGMeter on the list.
The phone will connect to the BT module. Once connected, the app will go to main screen and show the text "Press button on the XCM device". At same time the RED light on the BT module will lit, confirming that the phone has been connected. Then you should press the button on the module (close to green led) to confirm that you own this device.

Gaspar
Old 06-09-2017, 04:11 AM
  #372  
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Thank you. I missed the little button.
Old 06-24-2017, 12:43 AM
  #373  
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Just to let you know that we have a new product, the CGMeter Basic.
This is a low cost version of our PRO model, with relaxed electronics, without model memories nor color screen.
WiFi connection, compatible with Android/IOS/Windows/Linux, etc.
Up to 50kg models.
More info at Xicoy website here: https://www.xicoy.com/catalog/product_info.php… ...
Demo here: http://www.xicoy.com/CG
Old 06-24-2017, 09:27 AM
  #374  
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Gaspar, I'm using my unit and getting familiar with it.
I like it so far. Good that you are coming out with a cheaper version as I know people who like mine but complain that it's too expensive will be happy.
FYI. I know things get lots in translation but.. If you changed "bicycle" to Conventional it may be less confusing to most of the world. "Conventional" IS the term for non-nose gear type planes.
Maybe a future update possibility?
Old 06-27-2017, 01:39 PM
  #375  
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I WAS really excited to use mine until I powered it up and couldn't get through the touch screen calibration. I used a stylus, a pen, my finger, and tiny screw driver. Nothing would allow me to get through the calibration. I kept powering it off and back on and let it sit for the 5 minutes or more each time per the instructions. Eventually I could get one or two dots to calibrate. After a full day, yup FULL 8hrs, I got past the calibration screen. Next I tried going through the menus. No response. It just sat there and looked at me. Then, after a few minutes it would randomly start going to random screens that I never chose, and back the main menu on its own. I have version software 1.4 installed. I know that, because me and the main menus screen are best friends right now...lol. So, it's basically an expensive paperweight as it sits. Anyone else have issues like this? Can't say I'm very impressed with this thing. I emailed Xicoy 2 days ago and have yet the get a response.

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