RC Jets Discuss RC jets in this forum plus rc turbines and ducted fan power systems

Sebart Mini Avanti w/ K45 build thread

Reply
Old 05-14-2015, 11:06 PM
  #51
the3dmaster
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: cosenzaitaly, ITALY
Posts: 12
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fengjn View Post
I have the Mini Avanti coming for my Wren 44. I will be pushing the engine as far forward as I can. The inlets do not look structural so I will be cutting the tops of them away. Can you confirm if they are structural? I will be using a 32oz dubro tank sideways with no header tank. I will be using a GBR filter clunk.
hello fengjin, after you have mounted tank and turbine, can you put a picture in this thread? i want to see your work, thanks
the3dmaster is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2015, 11:12 PM
  #52
the3dmaster
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: cosenzaitaly, ITALY
Posts: 12
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrScoles View Post
Had a chance to play with fuel tank positions. The intakes are very thin glass, they can deform easily. The 16oz dubro fits on the rails almost perfectly without pushing on the intakes. The 20oz does constrict them a little more than I'm comfortable with. So, I'm going to go with a 16 and 14 on top of each other. The cockpit floor that is provided will not fit without adjustment with the tanks in this configuration. I don't like cockpits on sport jets and will be painting the canopy glass a solid color like I did on its big brother. I'll do a small cutout on the tray for the UAT to sit flush. The fuel pump and UAT will be near the rear nose gear bulkhead.

I looked over the build thread I did for the medium sized avanti last year. I thought I would get 8-10 minute flights with the 150oz of fuel on board. Not even close. I only use full throttle on uplines and when I'm doing tumbles and flat spins, the rest of the time I cruise around at half throttle. with 150oz, I probably have 10-20 oz left with a 6 minute flight. So, I am skeptical of the published fuel burn. It would make sense if it was an average, not at a full throttle measurement.

With the turbine as far forward as I can put it, without making new rails, the distance for the pipe is 475mm from the back edge of the fuse. The two pipes that WREN offers are the wrong size. Already sent an email to Ilja at Grumania for a custom one. Price is around 100 euros.

I am using a lion 2600 pack from duralite, and a small duralite inline regulator. The ECU pack is a 2100 LiFe pack from Kingtech. This battery is not supplied with the turbine, so don't forget to order it.

can you tell me, if this tank fit without pushing on the intake? is larger 92mm (italy metric measures) and have a capacity of 750ML
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	tank.jpg
Views:	412
Size:	31.3 KB
ID:	2096025  

Last edited by the3dmaster; 05-14-2015 at 11:15 PM.
the3dmaster is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2015, 06:12 AM
  #53
DrScoles
Thread Starter
 
DrScoles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sammamish, WA,
Posts: 2,132
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

The inlet is not structural, it flexes quite a bit. I bet you could remove the entire thing if you wanted to. I'm using a 16 oz dubro tank that is 2.5" wide, then a 14oz on top of it. I think you could easily put a 3 to 3.5" wide tank in. I will look this weekend. I like having the fuel closer to the CG, so stacking the two tanks works perfectly. Henke's words are in the back of my head, the pic I showed of the turbine on the rails shows it far forward up against one of the formers. I got another 5mm forward by placing the forward bolts in front of that former. This makes for a 480mm pipe length

I ordered from Ilja at grumania this morning. Here is the link to the one you want: http://www.grumania.com/xtcommerce/s...products_id=59

It was $144 US shipped to Seattle.

3Dmaster, 92mm is 3.5 inches, far too wide if you leave the intakes in place.
DrScoles is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2015, 06:18 AM
  #54
the3dmaster
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: cosenzaitaly, ITALY
Posts: 12
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

thanks drscoles, i have opened the website, pipe is a 15-35 newton or 40-80 newton?
the3dmaster is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2015, 06:50 AM
  #55
DrScoles
Thread Starter
 
DrScoles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sammamish, WA,
Posts: 2,132
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

40-80
DrScoles is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2015, 06:51 AM
  #56
the3dmaster
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: cosenzaitaly, ITALY
Posts: 12
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

now your custom pipe is: 480mm + 40mm inlet, right?
the3dmaster is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2015, 07:22 AM
  #57
DrScoles
Thread Starter
 
DrScoles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sammamish, WA,
Posts: 2,132
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I believe so, I will let Ilja decide that. the 480mm measurement is from the back of the turbine to the back of the fuse.
DrScoles is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2015, 12:48 PM
  #58
c_makhija
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: , INDIA
Posts: 568
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Any idea, what's the weight difference between the pipe for k45 compared to the 30n pipe that Ilja sells for the mini Avanti.
c_makhija is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 08:08 PM
  #59
DrScoles
Thread Starter
 
DrScoles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sammamish, WA,
Posts: 2,132
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Got a tiny bit done today. The manual has you put two little blocks on the rudder servo cover to mount a servo too. The Spectrum 4030 I am using is too big. So I put a 1/8" ply plate inside and glued the servo to it with zap. The linkages provided are a ball link on one end and a simple clevis on the other. The fiberglass control horns are already drilled for you. If you assemble the linkage in the way the manual states, there is too much slop due to the hole being slightly too large in the control horn. So, I flipped them. The ball link screw fits perfectly with the control horn hole, and the clevis goes on the control arm of the servo.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6443.jpg
Views:	529
Size:	2.35 MB
ID:	2096473   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6444.jpg
Views:	588
Size:	2.55 MB
ID:	2096474   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6451.jpg
Views:	543
Size:	1.71 MB
ID:	2096475  
DrScoles is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 08:34 PM
  #60
DrScoles
Thread Starter
 
DrScoles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sammamish, WA,
Posts: 2,132
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I trimmed about 1/8" on the turbine mount rails on each side to get it to clear the locknuts from the turbine mount ring. Got out my laser level (love this thing) and lined it up on the fuse, then indexed the turbine. The rails and blind nuts are not even on each side. Not sure if the formers are not square, but definitely couldn't use the blind nuts without slotting the mount that you use for the fan or turbine. Not a big deal, I'm planning on using wood screws.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6445.jpg
Views:	699
Size:	2.24 MB
ID:	2096480   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6447.jpg
Views:	685
Size:	2.77 MB
ID:	2096481   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6448.jpg
Views:	648
Size:	1.91 MB
ID:	2096482   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6449.jpg
Views:	688
Size:	2.15 MB
ID:	2096483   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6450.jpg
Views:	256
Size:	1.76 MB
ID:	2096484  
DrScoles is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2015, 05:42 AM
  #61
DrScoles
Thread Starter
 
DrScoles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sammamish, WA,
Posts: 2,132
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Fuel tank and turbine plumbing is done. 30 oz in the mains, and the 2oz UAT. I didn't want to touch the fiberglass intakes, if you did, you could probably get one 30oz tank in quite easily.

Pipe shipped today from Europe, not sure how long it will take to get here. This plane goes together fast.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6454.jpg
Views:	499
Size:	1.37 MB
ID:	2096731   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6455.jpg
Views:	658
Size:	2.49 MB
ID:	2096732   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6456.jpg
Views:	638
Size:	2.09 MB
ID:	2096733   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6457.jpg
Views:	591
Size:	1.69 MB
ID:	2096734  
DrScoles is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2015, 06:40 AM
  #62
DrScoles
Thread Starter
 
DrScoles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sammamish, WA,
Posts: 2,132
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

PLane is done until pipe arrives, should be here soon. Someone asked the pipe dia.. its 70mm. The turbine mounts very easily, just a little bit of trimming on the rails to clear the lock nuts on the mount. I have it as far forward as possible. I did some very rough CG testing last night. I don't think its gonna be tail heavy. Obviously, I don't have the pipe in, but if I put the two batteries as far forward as possible, its very nose heavy. I think they will be able to go along side the nose gear retract right where they're supposed to.and this was with the 2oz UAT empty. Find out soon. There is plenty of room for everything in this plane. It was a quick build, the only cutting I had to do so far was a square in the tray for the UAT, and that wasn't necessary, just looks cleaner. I have a tracking number for the pipe, need to see where it is.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6467.jpg
Views:	554
Size:	1.97 MB
ID:	2097313   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6468.jpg
Views:	659
Size:	2.44 MB
ID:	2097314  
DrScoles is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2015, 07:39 AM
  #63
tulz161
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St Augustine, Fl
Posts: 237
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Very nice. Any idea of what the pipe weighs?
tulz161 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2015, 07:42 AM
  #64
DrScoles
Thread Starter
 
DrScoles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sammamish, WA,
Posts: 2,132
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

No, I will weigh it before I put it in. I tracked it, its still in europe ;-(
DrScoles is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2015, 10:01 AM
  #65
Len
 
Len's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 265
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Hi DrScoles, I've done 4 Habu 32's with P-20's over the last few years, and a friend who also did one noted that there is vastly more intake area than a turbine needs as it was designed for an EDF unit. The same holds true for this Avanti, so I think you can safely reduce the intake area and use a single tank easily. On my last Habu 32x I moved the tank back to the wing former, very close to the starter motor as in your photos, and thereby reduced the intake area by about 40% I'm guesstimating. It still runs at the same EGT and as stable as always. It got the fuel closer to the CG as well. I agree that it is a good thing not to change too much on this test installation, but keep this in mind for the future as its an easy mod.

Thanks for doing this thread, much appreciated! I have the K45 on order supposedly shipped but looks to be stalled over the Pacific somewhere, and I'm hoping to get an Avanti in the fall shipment, if not the June one.

Thanks again,
Len
Len is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2015, 12:54 PM
  #66
c_makhija
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: , INDIA
Posts: 568
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tulz161 View Post
Very nice. Any idea of what the pipe weighs?
The pipe for the P20 weights 92 grams, the pipe for the K45 220 grams.

Chatty
c_makhija is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2015, 01:02 PM
  #67
tulz161
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St Augustine, Fl
Posts: 237
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Thanks Chatty - which manufacturer?
tulz161 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2015, 01:08 PM
  #68
c_makhija
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: , INDIA
Posts: 568
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Grumania. This is from Ilja himself.
c_makhija is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2015, 02:48 PM
  #69
DrScoles
Thread Starter
 
DrScoles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sammamish, WA,
Posts: 2,132
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

My one concern is that the larger pipe will bump the carbon spar that holds the elevators. Too much going on to make a tube and check, I'll find out soon enough.
DrScoles is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2015, 03:36 AM
  #70
c_makhija
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: , INDIA
Posts: 568
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Finally decided to go light on this one, will use the lambert T-35. Should come in at around 3kg with the T35 and Grumania super light pipe.All up should be 3.7 kg with around 8 min of fuel. Should be a great combo I think.
Pipe has been shipped from Grumania and T35 comes out of my Taft Viper, only waiting patiently for the Avanti��
c_makhija is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2015, 06:53 AM
  #71
DrScoles
Thread Starter
 
DrScoles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sammamish, WA,
Posts: 2,132
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

How much thrust on the T35? I was putting the wing and stab retention screws in last night. This plane is light. Everything but the pipe and two packs were in and it felt like it was an empty shell. My habu 32 felt very heavy, the Avanti is much lighter construction.

The only thing I have yet to figure out is brakes. A buddy has the HK electric brakes that he didn't use, gonna try to retrofit. The cutouts in the wing are at 2.5", these tires on the ebrakes are 2.5. The tires that come with the plane are 2". If you fly at an AMA field, you need brakes. Doubt they will get used much, but gotta do it to make it legal ;-)
DrScoles is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2015, 08:17 AM
  #72
c_makhija
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: , INDIA
Posts: 568
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Gave the kingtech a strong thought. Seba designs his planes to be light, at least that's what I learnt from the 2M Avanti.
looking at Robs videos on another forum, snaps and aerobatic manoeuvers would best be performed when she is lightly loaded.
The lambert produces 7.5 lbs thrust, which should be good combo.
My Taft viper is 2.7 kgs less fuel, UAT full, and has almost unlimited verticals in our hot conditions, so I guess the Avanti at 3.0 kg should be light with good performance.
Would love to see your plane with a kingtech, can always upgrade to the KT 45 for more thrust if needed.

Chatty.
c_makhija is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2015, 08:54 AM
  #73
DrScoles
Thread Starter
 
DrScoles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sammamish, WA,
Posts: 2,132
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

We just bought a house and are preparing current house for sale and then have to move into the new one. Hoping I can sneak out and maiden the plane in the next month or so, but its not looking good. My hobby for the next few months will be moving and setting up new house! Brightside, I will have a killer shop :-)

I'm always worried about landing heavy, this plane with no fuel is not going to be heavy. Your combo could be even better. I may detune the K45 a bit.
DrScoles is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2015, 11:01 AM
  #74
c_makhija
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: , INDIA
Posts: 568
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Another thing that worried me a bit on the K45 was fuel consumption. Had an earlier version K170, it ran flawlessly but was a thirsty, I guess the G series now have better consumption, but never tried one personally.
c_makhija is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2015, 11:24 AM
  #75
DrScoles
Thread Starter
 
DrScoles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sammamish, WA,
Posts: 2,132
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Find out soon ;-)
DrScoles is online now  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:42 AM.