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US NAVY SeaDart F2Y (Flying boat) Build

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US NAVY SeaDart F2Y (Flying boat) Build

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Old 09-02-2015, 11:58 AM
  #1  
Alex48
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Default US NAVY SeaDart F2Y (Flying boat) Build

A large twin turbine US NAVY experimental fighter that has four fifths of the earths surface as its runway. Designed by Convair in the 50's and faithfully reproduced in quarter scale by The Little Jet Company to operate solely from water.

This project has already taken the team to destinations around the world in the name of research but after thousands of hours we can finally begin... This is one of three large scratch built composite multi engined jets we have been commissioned to produce. All are unique but none more than this!

I hope you enjoy our story...

F2Y SeaDart Build


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Old 09-02-2015, 04:53 PM
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SECRET AGENT
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That is the weirdest, wack-a-doodle thing I have ever seen!

I think I love it, HA!
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Old 09-02-2015, 04:55 PM
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Cool project Alex!! Their is a full scale one on a pole next to the Florida jets feild. Very cool plane.
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Old 09-02-2015, 06:58 PM
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And the original is on display at the air and space museum in saint dieago. ( say it Ron burgundy style )
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Old 09-03-2015, 01:53 AM
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Aero65
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This is going to be fun to watch!
I know you probably already saw this edf version from Japan, I ran in to in on you tube while researching the P6M Seamaster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xj9QTh60T4
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Old 09-03-2015, 03:36 AM
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Harley Condra
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Originally Posted by yeahbaby View Post
And the original is on display at the air and space museum in saint dieago. ( say it Ron burgundy style )
That's just one of the prototypes...I have seen them fly as a kid in San Diego. There was only one accident, because the pilot exceeded the g limit.. My step dad saw it disintegrate in flight over San Diego bay in Nov. of 1954. The test pilot could not get out, and was killed.
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Old 09-03-2015, 05:04 AM
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love it!

Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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Old 09-03-2015, 09:14 AM
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Plenty lakes around here...
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Old 09-04-2015, 05:20 AM
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Alex48
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Thanks for the encouragement guys! It's certainly the most interesting project I've ever been involved in. I cant wait to get it into the water for the first time
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Old 09-04-2015, 07:49 AM
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Alex,

Do you have a normal link to the project?

marcs
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Old 09-04-2015, 10:38 AM
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Alex48
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Hi Marc

The build will be posted on here, RCSB and my FB page, there are no other links although I use my flickr account to place photos on the threads. I'll try and update every few days.

Cheers, Alex
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Old 09-04-2015, 11:19 AM
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Man thats a lot of high dollar equipment that could end up under water in the blink of an eye. Good luck on the project will be cool to see for sure.
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Old 09-04-2015, 11:44 AM
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Terry Holston
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i AM WITH mARK. i WOULD LIKE TO FOLLOW YOUR PROJECT, BUT THE LINK WONT LET ME IN. OOPs hit the caps lock key..........
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Old 09-04-2015, 11:51 AM
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ahhhh do you mean the photo on the first page? Can you see it ok?

Its a URL from my flickr account you won't have access to my flickr page, all the photos are 'locked' I can post URL's to show selected photos on threads such as this. Its not a link just a photo I had a bit of fun with to introduce the build. Just keep an eye out on this thread and you'll see all the progress.
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Old 09-04-2015, 12:00 PM
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Yep I see it fine. It wants me to sign up to access the account, then when I did, it wont let me in
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Old 09-04-2015, 12:38 PM
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Hi Terry, just don't click on the photos but view them in the thread instead its purely a method for me to display my images on the thread without using the uploader which works around 20% of the time for me. My photos on Flickr are all locked so only I can see them, it won't allow you to see anything even if you are logged in due to my security and privacy settings within flickr.
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Old 09-04-2015, 05:30 PM
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I will add some trivia as I worked in the experimental shop at Convair , 53, 54, 55 they built three birds # 1 was in the airframe stress bay under going test #2 was the first to fly and was the one that crashed, I don't have a clue how to find them but there are some Hi-speed film's of the fly-by and the break up, the cockpit was actually a separate modugal , # 3 was finished and in the engine test bay and the Navy canceled the program and for years no one would take #1 & 3 to display.

So it is interesting to me that the two remaining birds have found a home. One other thing the vibration from the slight ripple on the bay made the instrument panel shake so bad the pilot could not read any of them when on the ski's

Cheers Bob T

So I will be watching
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Old 09-05-2015, 12:07 PM
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Hi Bob, thanks for your post...

We have most of the archive footage you talk about and some excellent high resolution photos which were found at San Diego Air & Space Museum. The museum have been incredibly helpful and dug up some great information for us.

The vibration was extreme as you mentioned and was exclusive to the twin ski version. Interestingly we found archive information showing that on their 1/5th scale test models this vibration was not evident. I'm hoping that the 1/4 scale version we are building avoids the massive ski oscillations between the forward and aft ski oleos.
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Old 09-05-2015, 06:58 PM
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Alex

Glad you got most of the info, as I remember one of the solutions was they planed on adding shock absorber in the middle. I did not work on the Dart, I was on the pogo stick bird in the next bay, along with the original model # 8 witch became the F102
This is to long ago for this old man.

Cheers Bob T
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Old 09-06-2015, 01:42 AM
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Hi Bob, thats a coincidence! I've been commissioned to build a large scale Pogo its not a project thats close to being physically started but we are researching it. Anything you have on the Pogo would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Alex
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Old 09-06-2015, 04:00 AM
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Hi Alex

Working in that shop was the first job I had ware you had to get a security clearance, so most of what I know is just memory and that was when I was single and doing what most young men do ( hussle the ladies) and not paying a lot of attention .

Cheers Bob T
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Old 09-07-2015, 12:01 AM
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The first task was to research the aircraft extensively. Starting with the obligatory Googling we found plenty of dead ends but it did lead us to San Diego Air & Space Museum who have the archives for Convair. They were beyond helpful and without their valuable input this project would be that much harder. With plenty of original drawings we were certain we could achieve as close to 100% scale fidelity as is possible on an aircraft thats been consigned to history long ago. Along with the drawings we have plenty of historical high resolution photos that we can extract scale details from. Our last research trip took us to Orlando to photograph and measure the SeaDart at the 'Sun n Fun’ Museum at Lakeland airport. This trip was essential as it unlocked some of the issues we had been having replicating the ski retraction which is a geometrical nightmare and a huge project in its own right.

Much of the research showed the first SeaDart to be built which was the XF2Y-1, This was the "sugar scoop" aircraft in reference to the shape of the rear end with the Westinghouse J34 non after burning engines. So we blended the data together to give us all we needed to build SeaDart YF2Y-1, this was the second SeaDart to be built and this went supersonic on 3 August 1954 in shallow dive from 30000ft. It was used to develop ski design. Sadly this crashed on 4 November 1954 killing Chuck Richbourg as he struggled to control a highspeed pilot induced oscillation which led to the aircraft going beyond its structural design limits.

The first SeaDart XF2

XF2Y-1 Se:137634

The second SeaDart YF2Y-1 this is the aircraft we will be modelling and the only one not to survive the programme. This had the twin ski setup like the first and proved very stable on the water which we hope will translate to our 1/4 scale model.

YF2Y-1 Se:135762

Last edited by Alex48; 09-07-2015 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 09-07-2015, 05:38 AM
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Didn't they have teething problems with the salt water getting ingested into the engines? How about the model? What happens if the turbines ingest regular water? Going to have to have some steady thumbs with this one. Should be interesting hope you guys post some videos.

Dennis
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Old 09-07-2015, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Didn't they have teething problems with the salt water getting ingested into the engines? How about the model? What happens if the turbines ingest regular water? Going to have to have some steady thumbs with this one. Should be interesting hope you guys post some videos.

Dennis
As long as the amount of water is not excessive, the turbine won't mind... I didn't keep mine running for more than a couple of years, so I'm not sure what the long-term effect is, but if its fresh water, I wouldn't think if would be a problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjy7B0TTFjs

Bob
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Old 09-08-2015, 01:41 AM
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Hi Dennis,

Yes the salt water was an issue as the engines had magnesium compressor casings. The inside walls would grow whiskers from the contamination until the compressor blades scraped the walls. They sprayed large amounts of fresh water into the idling engines and also particles of walnut shells to cleanse the casings. Fresh water was also sprayed into the the engines before shutdown on the ramp.

Before introducing the above procedure they experienced power losses of up to 40% due to salt contamination! I don't think the spray will be an issue for us but the model will have the auxiliary intakes so we could blank the main intakes for takeoff and open them once airborne. Extensive taxi tests will be needed to ascertain if it will cause us a problem although we are designing a solution, but in the quest to keep things simple we won't integrate it if we don't need it.

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the link looks fun...
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