raptor30se

Curious if anyone had spoken to Gaspar or have any more information on if or when the M35 would every be sold? I've been holding out for a smaller turbine for some time, I have a P20 and like it, Kolbri's service scares me and the Kingtech K45 is just a little to heavy and dimensionally to big for my projects.

-DW

Henke Torphammar

Jetpower next week. Last Jetpower was the first where they said them selves that the M35 was put on hold due to problems getting it working. I don't recall the exact words but will of course ask again in a week.

raptor30se

Any update for those attending Jet Power on the smaller turbines?

George

My Feedback: (57)

I held one (prototype) in my hands yesterday (sorry no pic), but have no idea on a timeline if one exist...rumors do have it coming one day.

jetster81

Me too, the project is moving along but no firm date for release. weight will be around 450grm and estimated output to be around 4kg, also everything is integral,quite a feat for such a small unit,can't wait.

cmp3cantrj

Actually making everything integral is a bad idea for small turbines. At this weight it is 100gm heavier than the p20 and even more compared to Kolibri and that weight has to be balanced with further weight at the front to get the cg right.

Jgwright

I think you are wrong here. Not sure where the figure of 450 came from but I think the current engine is a bit lighter. In my view the engine is more likely to be installed inside a fuselage with a jet pipe rather than at the tail (as Martin now does with the new 6 Kg thrust engine). Do not forget that with integral valves the weight is less than with external valves as there is no valve body or pipework. They are very easy to remove and change as Gaspar demonstrated yesterday. Also did you see the tiny brushless pump? The thrust of the engine is 3.5kg which is considerably more than the P20.

John

jetster81

The figure of 450 came from a member of Gaspars team on the stand and he quoted that all figures were nominal to me but was sure they could be improved on by the time production is started. Yes the pump is small.

Henke Torphammar

This year they said it was being worked on but would not present a time frame.

Weight/power/price are all up to the customer to decide upon. How ever after allot of testing I know and can show several examples that engine weight are of great importance if you want to keep the weight down. The engine always sits behind CG. Adding weight there will need the same weight added infront of CG. The larger the engine the further back it ends up, the more weight you need to add up front. It's easy to understand but what most don't get the first time is how easily you end up with 1.5lb more of weight, this in a 7lb plane.

I'm simply not comfortable with that. 10N of extra power is ruined if you add 10N of extra weight.

I now days spend great effort mounting the engine as far forward as possible. In this case I can get the engine about 200mm forward from the easy way of just bolting it to the EDF mount. M35 back there would add 3lb easy to the AUW.

It looks like when the M35 finally debuts it will take shares by a lower price. Lambert got an engine of the same weight I've seen do 6kg in the test cell. The final product are projected to do 50N. A couple of them were flying on the Jetpower messe.


Example of front mounted engine.


Example of front mounted engine.


Lambert T45/T50, under 1lb of weight and 11lb+ of thrust.

jetster81

Ah Henke, I wondered when you would show up. If you look at the header it clearly states that this thread is pertaining to the JM35 and not Lambert. I am in no doubt that you are a shill for them and that is your choice but you keep making comparisons to a motor that is not even in full production yet,hardly an argument at the moment surely.

Jgwright

I will check the current weight of the M35 when Gaspar is home, I think the figure he mentioned to me was lighter than 450 grams. Also do not forget that all that huge bundle of wires shown in the photos above of the Lambert are not needed as the ecu is under the cover, and the engine has integral Kero igniter. It just needs a line to the Rx and a battery power line.

Henke, it would be worth a new thread for the Lambert 5 or is it 6 Kg engine? I was impressed with it and clearly it shows promise. I tried to find you at the show but too many people. I even asked the Jetcat display team with the mini Funjets thinking they were Lambert engines!

John

Henke Torphammar

Making examples from the real world bringing info from the fair as promised in my first post. Repeating is the only way to get the information out. The drawback is that fast learners like you will find it annoying. I also stay with examples that I'm familiar with.


There will be more info on it as soon as I can get hold of one. Currently Dirk Böhle and Peter Adolfs are the only ones that got the prototypes. But that one are to compare with the Jetcat P60 segment and not for 90mm EDFs like the M35 and other smaller engines as it's too big/heavy.

Dave Wilshere

I spoke with Gaspar as the M35 will be perfect for the Mini Xcalibur. He explained the problem of fuel metering at the small sizes-something people who understand turbines will get, the pump he has developed gets over that. He was honest and said more testing, so Xmas time.
Lambert 50N as it will be is an amazing engine and Martin sounded like he was getting "it" together with investments in machines.
There is a market for all these turbines, there are other around 30N turbines coming too

raptor30se

What can you say about other 30N coming soon? Does Jetcat have something on the way to replace the P20?


David

Dave Wilshere

No not from JetCat.
I don't have any further info and saying who it is will just give them grief! When there is news it will get posted for sure. These small turbines are a whole different ball game than larger units, when I bought the first ever Lambert T-20 (daddy of all micro turbines) Martin said making one run was OK, then he tried to make six run! These micros are much more critical.

Birdman6310

Bet it is Kingtech !

why_fly_high

My Feedback: (19)

Speculation is fun but......http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/king...ri-killer.html

Henke Torphammar

Yes, they have said larger engines will come first....

cmp3cantrj

The figure was quoted from an earlier post from someone who seemed to have some inside information - of course he may be wrong. If you mount the engine much further forward then you have difficulty getting the fuel tank over the cg - and you can't have the engine in front of the fuel tank....

Also the tailpipe contributes to the mass behind the cg.

The ancilliaries however can be mounted in front of the tank so their weight effectively subtracts from the engine weight.
Also most smaller models are designed for EDF - typically with a 6S 5Ah pack which weighs >500g and is mounted in the cockpit area - so you are usually looking for MORE weight at the front
Having said all that, in practice the thing that determines whether an engine will fit in a model is usually the outside diameter. Otherwise the mass of the engine/ ancilliaries simply modifies the amount of fuel you can carry and hence the flight time so maybe it isn't that critical after all.


True - but then I have had a p20 for 4 years....

Henke Torphammar

This is why a smaller starter is to prefer! M35 = leading this round...




This have never been an issue even if your statement is true.

True and an important point!

With the other brand of small engines you will end up 4-500grams lighter then the 6S EDF plus fuel, this if you mount the engine with a thrust tube. This is as said before if you design it wise with the engines starter all the way up against the fuel tank.

As for diameter a K45/Wren44 fits in any 90mm EDF plane but with that extra weight the extra kilo of thrust is eaten up by the extra weight resulting in a plane with less power to weight ratio and too heavy to fly comfortably.

My way of doing things are not the only way of course... but I have done 16 conversion-kits so far that are selling, where the Twin engine Opus V-jet might be the most spectacular :-)

Jgwright

The ancillaries really do not weigh that much. I just checked and the valves weigh 28 grams for the 2 of them plus tubing and festo connectors. The ECU weighs 18 Grams and the pump (magnetic Hasul pump is 44 grams.) The M35 has just the bodies of the valve and no base no connectors and no wires and no tubes. the 2 bodies weigh just 20 grams. Don't forget the pump for the M35 is very light and small. Moving these parts around really does not make a significant difference in the CG of the plane.

Interestingly I have a small K45 powered Lippish P15 ready to fly (similar to Me163) and I knew that I would have a problem with the weight as it has a very short nose. As you say the fuel is best on CG and that restricts the engine position to immediately behind the tank. The main culprit in moving the CG back is the tailpipe. I prefer a twin walled one and made my own from the normal 0.1mm Stainless. I had a good look at pipes at JetPower and the ones with a thin aluminium outer are much lighter. However I was warned against using Titanium as it apparently becomes brittle after being over heated. Looking at the plane again if I was fitting it out again I think I would use 2 saddle tanks either side of the engine with the engine moved forwards. We all hate adding lead but the CG has to be in the right position. The same plane with 6 s edf is no problem just move the battery forward.

John

Gaspar

Just to give you some information, the weight of the bare engine is currently 306g, and including ecu, starter and valves the weight is 370g. Production engines could be a little different, but not too much. Pump weight is around 25g.

No release date yet, our plan is mass production, so need to invest in a lot of things to assure quick production times and low cost.

Gaspar

Bob_B

My Feedback: (11)

Thank you Gaspar!

Henke Torphammar

Thanks for first hand info! That is the same as a P20 more or less. So with one extra kilo of thrust you would kill the P20 sales.

Birdman6310

Yes but it actually needs to be available to kill anything. I have been hearing about this for a very long time now and still no idea of a date from the horses mouth