Jets down, need advice
10-04-2015, 04:31 PM
#1
Jets down, need advice
Ok guys I'm having some issues here and none of my boys back home in Ohio know what I should do.
I had to switch to diesel fuel once moveing to IL, as kerosene is a lot harder to find.
Well I have only been her for 3 months and after about 30 gallons, my fuel pump to fill my jets was going very slowly. I pulled the filter pickup in my 5gal fuel can and it was covered in a green slime. I saw some green stuff floting on the fuel, so I emptyed all my jets and throw out the fuel. I replaced all my festo filters as they had green specks which is weird because I use UAT's.
So now I have used about 10 gallons since that day, and 3 of my 5 jets are acting crazy, (2 jetcat 1 kingtec )
Today I started my old school p80, flew my Skymaster F86 it started to feel week but I thought it was me. Fill it up and go for 2nd flight and it starts but the rpm is lower than the controller is demands and it shuts off.
Then I got a flight on my Carf Eurosport k140, no problem, go for 2nd flight and I don't even hear the fuel pump come on and I get a failed start...
Same as the Carf, my skymaster f16 with new fuel pump, won't start.
I try priming the fuel pumps into a exstra fuel can and there not flowing until I turn up the voltage then they come alive.
I'm guessing I got miro algee in my systems and there messing up my pumps and filters.
What have you used in your diesal fuel to kill this stuff?
I plan on setting up a small hopper tank and just running what ever it is you recommend to clean the pumps.
I'm so fustrated, the. Add the fact I just got my p120se back from complete service from jetcat and the f15 ot hose to is starving the pump, I can't get max rpm unless I put the pump directly to my main fuel can...
Please help Mike
I had to switch to diesel fuel once moveing to IL, as kerosene is a lot harder to find.
Well I have only been her for 3 months and after about 30 gallons, my fuel pump to fill my jets was going very slowly. I pulled the filter pickup in my 5gal fuel can and it was covered in a green slime. I saw some green stuff floting on the fuel, so I emptyed all my jets and throw out the fuel. I replaced all my festo filters as they had green specks which is weird because I use UAT's.
So now I have used about 10 gallons since that day, and 3 of my 5 jets are acting crazy, (2 jetcat 1 kingtec )
Today I started my old school p80, flew my Skymaster F86 it started to feel week but I thought it was me. Fill it up and go for 2nd flight and it starts but the rpm is lower than the controller is demands and it shuts off.
Then I got a flight on my Carf Eurosport k140, no problem, go for 2nd flight and I don't even hear the fuel pump come on and I get a failed start...
Same as the Carf, my skymaster f16 with new fuel pump, won't start.
I try priming the fuel pumps into a exstra fuel can and there not flowing until I turn up the voltage then they come alive.
I'm guessing I got miro algee in my systems and there messing up my pumps and filters.
What have you used in your diesal fuel to kill this stuff?
I plan on setting up a small hopper tank and just running what ever it is you recommend to clean the pumps.
I'm so fustrated, the. Add the fact I just got my p120se back from complete service from jetcat and the f15 ot hose to is starving the pump, I can't get max rpm unless I put the pump directly to my main fuel can...
Please help Mike
10-04-2015, 05:10 PM
#4
Sounds like you got a bad batch of fuel mixed with Bio-diesel. Or you had the fuel sitting around in the heat for a long time. There are additives that can be used to prevent algae. However, now you have to finish cleaning out the mess. Maybe try pumping some kero through the system would help clean it out. But the filters need to be replaced. Also be on the lookout for possibly introducing new problems (e.g. fuel leaks, etc.) as you take things apart and put them back together. Kero is not that hard to find nor that expensive in Ohio. I just came thru there and spotted several Kero pumps. Also, in a tight spot, Ace Hardware and other stores carry K1.
10-04-2015, 05:19 PM
#5
Sounds like you got a bad batch of fuel mixed with Bio-diesel. Or you had the fuel sitting around in the heat for a long time. There are additives that can be used to prevent algae. However, now you have to finish cleaning out the mess. Maybe try pumping some kero through the system would help clean it out. But the filters need to be replaced. Also be on the lookout for possibly introducing new problems (e.g. fuel leaks, etc.) as you take things apart and put them back together. Kero is not that hard to find nor that expensive in Ohio. I just came thru there and spotted several Kero pumps. Also, in a tight spot, Ace Hardware and other stores carry K1.
What cheer have used
10-04-2015, 05:33 PM
#7
You are going to need to change all your filters in your planes and fueling can.
To prevent this here is how I do it.
I use regular cans to fill up fuel from the gas station. I then use a Mrfunnel on all fuel going into my fueling jug no exceptions. I got microbial growth before from my jet A and learned all this the hard way. I now use desire but still use the Mrfunnel every time.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...Z45BRX0ZJJQRBH
To prevent this here is how I do it.
I use regular cans to fill up fuel from the gas station. I then use a Mrfunnel on all fuel going into my fueling jug no exceptions. I got microbial growth before from my jet A and learned all this the hard way. I now use desire but still use the Mrfunnel every time.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...Z45BRX0ZJJQRBH
10-04-2015, 05:48 PM
#8
You are going to need to change all your filters in your planes and fueling can.
To prevent this here is how I do it.
I use regular cans to fill up fuel from the gas station. I then use a Mrfunnel on all fuel going into my fueling jug no exceptions. I got microbial growth before from my jet A and learned all this the hard way. I now use desire but still use the Mrfunnel every time.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...Z45BRX0ZJJQRBH
To prevent this here is how I do it.
I use regular cans to fill up fuel from the gas station. I then use a Mrfunnel on all fuel going into my fueling jug no exceptions. I got microbial growth before from my jet A and learned all this the hard way. I now use desire but still use the Mrfunnel every time.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...Z45BRX0ZJJQRBH
Is there a cemical you used to kill this crap?
10-04-2015, 07:22 PM
#10
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I had the same issue and I buy Kero in 55 gallon drums here in California. Started having flame outs.Got some algae from the Kero and managed to transfer it to all my planes and fueler. I use a Mr. Funnel and it still got in. Now when I get a drum of Kero delivered, in goes the Biobor. I also add a quarter ounce more to every 5 gallon can I mix with oil. I never fill an empty 5 gallon can without making absolutely sure it is clean. This system seems to be working now. Biobor was the solution.
steve
steve
10-04-2015, 10:49 PM
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Biobor JR is what you want and its one gallon to 10,000 gals fuel. Treats Kero and Diesel and adds lubricity. (Great for turbine props) If it's impossible to get Jet A I guess diesel is ok. I know flyers who get their Jet A direct from airports. There must be one near you? Diesel scares the c*** out of me and I don't need anything more to worry about while flying.
10-05-2015, 04:23 AM
#13
Hello jet flyers!
I'm not a jet guy but I do fly a full scale turbinpe aircraft. I have a tip for those of you that fly jets. Your local airport likely sells jet fuel but they will probably not be too excited to sell you 5 gal or so for your model planes. Usually they sell it by the hundreds of gallons and it's just not worth it to crank the truck up for a few gallons.
BUT!! First thing every morning, and I mean early, when they first open or when the first shift arrives, they are required to sump or drain a sample of fuel from each truck. They usually drain a couple of gallons each and are not allowed to return this sample to the truck. It's usually tossed into a bin for re-cycling. This is the fuel you want to ask for as it is pretty rare for any of this fuel to be contaminated, and since the guy is already draining a small amount, he likely will be happy to sell/give it to you since it can't be sold anyway.
The guy to talk to is the "Line Service Manager". You will have the best luck at smaller airports, those without airline service or very little airline service. Try to pick a day and time when they are not too busy, like mid afternoon and rainy weather. Load up a jet and head out to the airport, ask to speak to the "Line Service Manager" concerning sumping the fuel trucks. Offer to show him your jet while you explain what you want and what it will be used for. I''ll bet that you'll be able to buy the sumped fuel if you are there when the sumping is done, you might even get it for free.
I'm not a jet guy but I do fly a full scale turbinpe aircraft. I have a tip for those of you that fly jets. Your local airport likely sells jet fuel but they will probably not be too excited to sell you 5 gal or so for your model planes. Usually they sell it by the hundreds of gallons and it's just not worth it to crank the truck up for a few gallons.
BUT!! First thing every morning, and I mean early, when they first open or when the first shift arrives, they are required to sump or drain a sample of fuel from each truck. They usually drain a couple of gallons each and are not allowed to return this sample to the truck. It's usually tossed into a bin for re-cycling. This is the fuel you want to ask for as it is pretty rare for any of this fuel to be contaminated, and since the guy is already draining a small amount, he likely will be happy to sell/give it to you since it can't be sold anyway.
The guy to talk to is the "Line Service Manager". You will have the best luck at smaller airports, those without airline service or very little airline service. Try to pick a day and time when they are not too busy, like mid afternoon and rainy weather. Load up a jet and head out to the airport, ask to speak to the "Line Service Manager" concerning sumping the fuel trucks. Offer to show him your jet while you explain what you want and what it will be used for. I''ll bet that you'll be able to buy the sumped fuel if you are there when the sumping is done, you might even get it for free.
10-05-2015, 05:30 AM
#14
My Feedback: (48)
Here's what you need to do:
Replace all of your filters (in-line, UAT, fuel can, etc.) and fuel lines.
Flush out your fuel tanks and fuel can with gasoline. Gasoline will kill the algae.
Run gasoline through your fuel pumps. Back flushing will help.
Run some kero through everything to rinse out any residual gasoline.
Buy and use a MR Funnel every time you fill your fuel can
Add Biobor JF everytime you fill your fuel can. You can get it at any marine supply store and some auto parts stores.
Always buy your kero at a place that sells a lot of it. You don't want fuel that's been sitting in their tank since last year.
If some of your engines don't run right with good fresh fuel then the nozzles are probably plugged and you'll have to send the engine in for cleaning and service.
I got some contaminated fuel about 10 years ago. After following the above I've had zero problems since then.
Good luck,
Joe
Replace all of your filters (in-line, UAT, fuel can, etc.) and fuel lines.
Flush out your fuel tanks and fuel can with gasoline. Gasoline will kill the algae.
Run gasoline through your fuel pumps. Back flushing will help.
Run some kero through everything to rinse out any residual gasoline.
Buy and use a MR Funnel every time you fill your fuel can
Add Biobor JF everytime you fill your fuel can. You can get it at any marine supply store and some auto parts stores.
Always buy your kero at a place that sells a lot of it. You don't want fuel that's been sitting in their tank since last year.
If some of your engines don't run right with good fresh fuel then the nozzles are probably plugged and you'll have to send the engine in for cleaning and service.
I got some contaminated fuel about 10 years ago. After following the above I've had zero problems since then.
Good luck,
Joe
10-05-2015, 05:32 AM
#15
Hello jet flyers!
I'm not a jet guy but I do fly a full scale turbinpe aircraft. I have a tip for those of you that fly jets. Your local airport likely sells jet fuel but they will probably not be too excited to sell you 5 gal or so for your model planes. Usually they sell it by the hundreds of gallons and it's just not worth it to crank the truck up for a few gallons.
BUT!! First thing every morning, and I mean early, when they first open or when the first shift arrives, they are required to sump or drain a sample of fuel from each truck. They usually drain a couple of gallons each and are not allowed to return this sample to the truck. It's usually tossed into a bin for re-cycling. This is the fuel you want to ask for as it is pretty rare for any of this fuel to be contaminated, and since the guy is already draining a small amount, he likely will be happy to sell/give it to you since it can't be sold anyway.
The guy to talk to is the "Line Service Manager". You will have the best luck at smaller airports, those without airline service or very little airline service. Try to pick a day and time when they are not too busy, like mid afternoon and rainy weather. Load up a jet and head out to the airport, ask to speak to the "Line Service Manager" concerning sumping the fuel trucks. Offer to show him your jet while you explain what you want and what it will be used for. I''ll bet that you'll be able to buy the sumped fuel if you are there when the sumping is done, you might even get it for free.
I'm not a jet guy but I do fly a full scale turbinpe aircraft. I have a tip for those of you that fly jets. Your local airport likely sells jet fuel but they will probably not be too excited to sell you 5 gal or so for your model planes. Usually they sell it by the hundreds of gallons and it's just not worth it to crank the truck up for a few gallons.
BUT!! First thing every morning, and I mean early, when they first open or when the first shift arrives, they are required to sump or drain a sample of fuel from each truck. They usually drain a couple of gallons each and are not allowed to return this sample to the truck. It's usually tossed into a bin for re-cycling. This is the fuel you want to ask for as it is pretty rare for any of this fuel to be contaminated, and since the guy is already draining a small amount, he likely will be happy to sell/give it to you since it can't be sold anyway.
The guy to talk to is the "Line Service Manager". You will have the best luck at smaller airports, those without airline service or very little airline service. Try to pick a day and time when they are not too busy, like mid afternoon and rainy weather. Load up a jet and head out to the airport, ask to speak to the "Line Service Manager" concerning sumping the fuel trucks. Offer to show him your jet while you explain what you want and what it will be used for. I''ll bet that you'll be able to buy the sumped fuel if you are there when the sumping is done, you might even get it for free.
Over here we got diesel with 5% RME (I guess you call it soy oil in US) It's not biodiesel but rather cooking oil added to the fuel. This is perfect as that's all oil we need for turbines. So it's still fossil diesel but with 5% oil added. It won't grow the green goof and it runs perfect even in my super small engines revving almost 250.000rpm.
10-05-2015, 07:00 AM
#17
Here's what you need to do:
Replace all of your filters (in-line, UAT, fuel can, etc.) and fuel lines.
Flush out your fuel tanks and fuel can with gasoline. Gasoline will kill the algae.
Run gasoline through your fuel pumps. Back flushing will help.
Run some kero through everything to rinse out any residual gasoline.
Buy and use a MR Funnel every time you fill your fuel can
Add Biobor JF everytime you fill your fuel can. You can get it at any marine supply store and some auto parts stores.
Always buy your kero at a place that sells a lot of it. You don't want fuel that's been sitting in their tank since last year.
If some of your engines don't run right with good fresh fuel then the nozzles are probably plugged and you'll have to send the engine in for cleaning and service.
I got some contaminated fuel about 10 years ago. After following the above I've had zero problems since then.
Good luck,
Joe
Replace all of your filters (in-line, UAT, fuel can, etc.) and fuel lines.
Flush out your fuel tanks and fuel can with gasoline. Gasoline will kill the algae.
Run gasoline through your fuel pumps. Back flushing will help.
Run some kero through everything to rinse out any residual gasoline.
Buy and use a MR Funnel every time you fill your fuel can
Add Biobor JF everytime you fill your fuel can. You can get it at any marine supply store and some auto parts stores.
Always buy your kero at a place that sells a lot of it. You don't want fuel that's been sitting in their tank since last year.
If some of your engines don't run right with good fresh fuel then the nozzles are probably plugged and you'll have to send the engine in for cleaning and service.
I got some contaminated fuel about 10 years ago. After following the above I've had zero problems since then.
Good luck,
Joe
Thanks guys. I saw all the post about how great diesal was but no one said anything about useing Biobor JF.
Thanks Guys.
10-05-2015, 07:08 AM
#18
Did a Google Search for Kero in Rockisland IL. Check these places.
http://www.superpages.com/yellowpage...T-Rock+Island/
http://www.superpages.com/yellowpage...T-Rock+Island/
Thanks
10-05-2015, 08:24 AM
#19
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There is a product called BioBor that is sold as an anti algae agent. It will kill the algae but it will not remove any of the dead algae.Another
product called Diesel doctor it performs exactly the same as BioBor , It should not be a suprize since it's made by the same company.Get a large automotive filter to run ahead of all those little goodies.
Junkpilot
product called Diesel doctor it performs exactly the same as BioBor , It should not be a suprize since it's made by the same company.Get a large automotive filter to run ahead of all those little goodies.
Junkpilot
10-05-2015, 09:28 AM
#20
Okay couple of ideas above and the one about using a biocide in the fuel is pretty important. There are any number of brands but I always look for the ones that are designed for small trucks or cars, they have a measuring section so it's easy. Next thing is that with the diesel emission law, most passenger size vehicles are now fitted with what they refer to as "diesel exhaust fluid" systems which are refilled usually when you get the oil change. Truck stops can be different. LOTS of them now have islands where the diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) is premixed into the fuel so the big rig drivers don't have to screw with it.
Now that stuff is urea and water, not sure our little turbines would like that. If you got your diesel at a truck stop, could you have picked up some that had the DEF?
Now that stuff is urea and water, not sure our little turbines would like that. If you got your diesel at a truck stop, could you have picked up some that had the DEF?
10-05-2015, 10:47 AM
#22
Biobor JR is what you want and its one gallon to 10,000 gals fuel. Treats Kero and Diesel and adds lubricity. (Great for turbine props) If it's impossible to get Jet A I guess diesel is ok. I know flyers who get their Jet A direct from airports. There must be one near you? Diesel scares the c*** out of me and I don't need anything more to worry about while flying.
Vin...
10-05-2015, 01:38 PM
#23
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I had an identical problem in my boat when the diesel sits. Clogged all the fuel filters, had to change them all. Biobor was the answer.
Microorganisms living in diesel is pretty common. My neighbor used to make a living out of selling biocides to the offshore oil islands here in CA. You wouldn't thing anything could live in diesel but it surely does.
On boats they do a service called "Fuel Polishing". Basically they just run your fuel through fuel filters to filter out the carcasses of all the microorganisms you killed with the biobor in addition to any other dirt and contaminates.
Microorganisms living in diesel is pretty common. My neighbor used to make a living out of selling biocides to the offshore oil islands here in CA. You wouldn't thing anything could live in diesel but it surely does.
On boats they do a service called "Fuel Polishing". Basically they just run your fuel through fuel filters to filter out the carcasses of all the microorganisms you killed with the biobor in addition to any other dirt and contaminates.
Last edited by stevekott; 10-05-2015 at 01:41 PM.
10-05-2015, 03:26 PM
#24
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Okay couple of ideas above and the one about using a biocide in the fuel is pretty important. There are any number of brands but I always look for the ones that are designed for small trucks or cars, they have a measuring section so it's easy. Next thing is that with the diesel emission law, most passenger size vehicles are now fitted with what they refer to as "diesel exhaust fluid" systems which are refilled usually when you get the oil change. Truck stops can be different. LOTS of them now have islands where the diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) is premixed into the fuel so the big rig drivers don't have to screw with it.
Now that stuff is urea and water, not sure our little turbines would like that. If you got your diesel at a truck stop, could you have picked up some that had the DEF?
Now that stuff is urea and water, not sure our little turbines would like that. If you got your diesel at a truck stop, could you have picked up some that had the DEF?
10-05-2015, 03:27 PM
#25
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I allways used JetA1 on ours jetcats ( since 2001 ), but, i'm using diesel since last feb/15, without issues, and, starts fast, easy and flawlessly on any temperature, but, in my experience ( 400 lts ), i think 70% diesel to 30% jeta1 plus 4,5% oil mix, the engine have more power, less smoke, fast response, never had any problem on fuel storage ( i have 8 x fuel can 20 lts, stored in clear bottle ), i allways inspect inside the bottle before use. I use 2 fuel filters on field fuel can, and, 1 inside the jet.
never had any problems.
jose
never had any problems.
jose