Lets talk Batteries
#1
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (21)
Lets talk Batteries
I am re configuring one of my jets to lose some dead nose weight. Right now I am running two A123 2300mAh batteries that I can remove from the jet for charging.
I have always set my jets up to be able to remove the batteries for charging with the exception of my F-86 that has a single 5 cell 2300mAh Nicad in the nose that is not accessible. I charge the Nicad on board.
My jet I am re doing will have a Powerbox Royal with the regulator set for the 6.0 volts. The lead in the nose of this jet will be removed and I can put the two A123's in the nose for balance. I am concerned with charging the A123's in the jet.
My other option is to install two 2300mAh 6 cell Nicad packs in the nose and i would be able to charge them in the jet.
What are your thoughts on this?
Anyone charging A123's on board your jet?
Any issues I.E. packs exploding.
Thanks Joe Lewis
Kingtech
K-80 and K-140 owner
I have always set my jets up to be able to remove the batteries for charging with the exception of my F-86 that has a single 5 cell 2300mAh Nicad in the nose that is not accessible. I charge the Nicad on board.
My jet I am re doing will have a Powerbox Royal with the regulator set for the 6.0 volts. The lead in the nose of this jet will be removed and I can put the two A123's in the nose for balance. I am concerned with charging the A123's in the jet.
My other option is to install two 2300mAh 6 cell Nicad packs in the nose and i would be able to charge them in the jet.
What are your thoughts on this?
Anyone charging A123's on board your jet?
Any issues I.E. packs exploding.
Thanks Joe Lewis
Kingtech
K-80 and K-140 owner
#2
My Feedback: (38)
I don't have 123s in my jets,Im a diehard fromeco li-ion guy, but I do have 123s in multiple other planes, and I have balance charged them in the plane from day 1, never any worries. I know the chemistry in them not supposed to be as volatile as Lipos, but I also believe lipos got their bad rep from people charging then wrong.
#8
I absolutely hate to charge batteries in the plane. What a PITA to get at them with the planes in the trailer. And then, if you forget to charge them, you have to wait to charge them before flying versus just putting in some fresh ones. Also you are committed to the batteries in the plane. If you detect a weak battery = no flying, at least for an hour. And, ... then there is stopping in the middle of the day to charge them back up again, ... another hour. This also forces you to carry a generator or a 12 Volt battery, if you don't mind waiting for a longer charge off a battery. And then you have to remember to charge that battery before you go.
Also, if you do not have permanent batteries, you can use just a couple packs for multiple planes. This way you don't have to have dedicated packs for each plane. Saves $s and you don't have to worry about putting batteries in storage mode when the plane is not being used for a while, etc.
If there is any way to avoid installing batteries permanently in a plane I do it. You don't know what your missing until you set up the plane to allow easy battery removal for charging and just swapping in fresh ones.
I do have one plane that I am forced to have installed batteries. I have A123s because they are not supposed to catch fire. Also, Electro-Dynamics has a nice setup for balance charging these in the plane.
We have had one jet in our club burn down with LiPo charging in the Plane. That fire also got a second plane. Can not attest to how that battery was being charged. But I have never had a LiPo go up in smoke when charging. And I have charged LiPos that were bashed, puffed and had marginal cells. I even still have one I use that puffed and I bled off the gas in each cell and resealed it, ... two years ago. It still works and charges fine! Although, I would never charge that one in a plane.
I do like LiPos. I use all HV Digital Servos and some sort of powerbox or power expanders. In a plane that does not need the fast servo response or higher torque, I cut the voltage back. A HV servo will never burn out on 6 volts. I trust LiPos. But I do not charge them in a plane as I enjoy the advantages of them not being permanently installed.
Also, if you do not have permanent batteries, you can use just a couple packs for multiple planes. This way you don't have to have dedicated packs for each plane. Saves $s and you don't have to worry about putting batteries in storage mode when the plane is not being used for a while, etc.
If there is any way to avoid installing batteries permanently in a plane I do it. You don't know what your missing until you set up the plane to allow easy battery removal for charging and just swapping in fresh ones.
I do have one plane that I am forced to have installed batteries. I have A123s because they are not supposed to catch fire. Also, Electro-Dynamics has a nice setup for balance charging these in the plane.
We have had one jet in our club burn down with LiPo charging in the Plane. That fire also got a second plane. Can not attest to how that battery was being charged. But I have never had a LiPo go up in smoke when charging. And I have charged LiPos that were bashed, puffed and had marginal cells. I even still have one I use that puffed and I bled off the gas in each cell and resealed it, ... two years ago. It still works and charges fine! Although, I would never charge that one in a plane.
I do like LiPos. I use all HV Digital Servos and some sort of powerbox or power expanders. In a plane that does not need the fast servo response or higher torque, I cut the voltage back. A HV servo will never burn out on 6 volts. I trust LiPos. But I do not charge them in a plane as I enjoy the advantages of them not being permanently installed.
#9
My Feedback: (55)
You can charge the a123s in the plane but make sure your cell count on your charger is set right or have a smart charger like the cell pro 4. I blew the nose off my shockjet once when I charged one of me flight pack 2 cells on 3 cell charge rate. Charged about 5 minutes then pow the nose was gone. Picked up a cell pro 4 and been charging batteries in plane for a couple of years now.
#10
My Feedback: (4)
I absolutely hate to charge batteries in the plane. What a PITA to get at them with the planes in the trailer. And then, if you forget to charge them, you have to wait to charge them before flying versus just putting in some fresh ones. Also you are committed to the batteries in the plane. If you detect a weak battery = no flying, at least for an hour. And, ... then there is stopping in the middle of the day to charge them back up again, ... another hour. This also forces you to carry a generator or a 12 Volt battery, if you don't mind waiting for a longer charge off a battery. And then you have to remember to charge that battery before you go.
Also, if you do not have permanent batteries, you can use just a couple packs for multiple planes. This way you don't have to have dedicated packs for each plane. Saves $s and you don't have to worry about putting batteries in storage mode when the plane is not being used for a while, etc.
If there is any way to avoid installing batteries permanently in a plane I do it. You don't know what your missing until you set up the plane to allow easy battery removal for charging and just swapping in fresh ones.
I do have one plane that I am forced to have installed batteries. I have A123s because they are not supposed to catch fire. Also, Electro-Dynamics has a nice setup for balance charging these in the plane.
We have had one jet in our club burn down with LiPo charging in the Plane. That fire also got a second plane. Can not attest to how that battery was being charged. But I have never had a LiPo go up in smoke when charging. And I have charged LiPos that were bashed, puffed and had marginal cells. I even still have one I use that puffed and I bled off the gas in each cell and resealed it, ... two years ago. It still works and charges fine! Although, I would never charge that one in a plane.
I do like LiPos. I use all HV Digital Servos and some sort of powerbox or power expanders. In a plane that does not need the fast servo response or higher torque, I cut the voltage back. A HV servo will never burn out on 6 volts. I trust LiPos. But I do not charge them in a plane as I enjoy the advantages of them not being permanently installed.
Also, if you do not have permanent batteries, you can use just a couple packs for multiple planes. This way you don't have to have dedicated packs for each plane. Saves $s and you don't have to worry about putting batteries in storage mode when the plane is not being used for a while, etc.
If there is any way to avoid installing batteries permanently in a plane I do it. You don't know what your missing until you set up the plane to allow easy battery removal for charging and just swapping in fresh ones.
I do have one plane that I am forced to have installed batteries. I have A123s because they are not supposed to catch fire. Also, Electro-Dynamics has a nice setup for balance charging these in the plane.
We have had one jet in our club burn down with LiPo charging in the Plane. That fire also got a second plane. Can not attest to how that battery was being charged. But I have never had a LiPo go up in smoke when charging. And I have charged LiPos that were bashed, puffed and had marginal cells. I even still have one I use that puffed and I bled off the gas in each cell and resealed it, ... two years ago. It still works and charges fine! Although, I would never charge that one in a plane.
I do like LiPos. I use all HV Digital Servos and some sort of powerbox or power expanders. In a plane that does not need the fast servo response or higher torque, I cut the voltage back. A HV servo will never burn out on 6 volts. I trust LiPos. But I do not charge them in a plane as I enjoy the advantages of them not being permanently installed.
#11
My Feedback: (145)
I have been using LiFe (a123s and others) for the last 5 years. I use them on everything. Fuel pump Air compressor,Blower, even my dustbuster. I tried to blow one up early on just to see what happened. The only thing that happened was the cap popped off the can. The other reason is that they hold a charge for a very long time (very low self discharge rate) and with a top off are ready to go quickly
#12
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (21)
Thank you for all the advice. It seems that charging them on board is not an issue so I believe they will get installed in the nose. I really don't like to carry dead weight, so the lead in the nose is going. The batteries will become my nose weight. Just so happens that the batteries weight the same as the lead in the nose.
Thanks
Joe Lewis
Kingtech
K-80 and K-140
Owner
Thanks
Joe Lewis
Kingtech
K-80 and K-140
Owner
#14
My Feedback: (4)
There are advantages and disadvantages to everything. But I hate dead weight so much that in some planes where there is little extra room and CG issues, I do the exact same thing you will do by using batts as ballast in sometimes inaccessible areas. I do have the ability to swap a pack out in 15 minutes though, if I chose, bc I built in a way to get at the packs but I'd hate to do it every time. It's so easy to charge in the jet if you set yourself up for success and that's easy. I have a long charge lead and balance lead that is zip tied together. I also zip tie the balance lead to the battery connector where it is easy to access in the jet to hook up for charging so there is no fussing for connectors. I hook up from the charger to the batteries and use a portable deep cycle battery as my field charger so it's no issue to charge at the plane, in the car, at the table, or anywhere else for that matter. Totally portable and not a pain at all. I've been charging Lipos since 2003 and Life and A123 are NOT Lipos. They are perfectly fine to charge in jets and do not represent a hazard during charge like Lipos do. The one thing I'd humbly recommend you do is to occasionally discharge and re charge the A123's or Life packs with a quality charger using a cycle function. It helps you know what the capacity of the packs are doing over time to make sure you don't have a battery problem. The charger will diagnose the pack when it cycles it if you have a good charger like a Revolectrix or what have you.
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John
#18
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Queensland, AUSTRALIA
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#19
My Feedback: (7)
Wayne
Last edited by wfield0455; 10-09-2015 at 01:30 PM.
#20
My Feedback: (2)
Here is some info to start with.
http://hangtimes.com/a123_batteries_for_giants_faq.html
#22
If you are going to an on board regulator from a PB or CB... and need to bury the batteries, to me its a No Brainer..LiONs..
put some Fromeco Lithium Ion 5200 packs in the nose.. they are almost the same weight as the A123 pack.. you can charge them at 1C in the jet.. Have done it for years.. Thats my preferred setup with a regulator. High capacity, good Impedence. easy peasy to charge..
Call them and tell them what config and how long of wire and what plug.. I usually get them in a 2x2 long stick with 12 inches and a Deans.
No balancing required.
IFyou are not using regulators, then A123's or recently I started using BUDDY RC Life Packs.. you must balance charge A123/Life every time however.. If you balance charge and check them every time, you will be fine.. I did a lot and I mean a lot of testing on A123's back in the day.. they are insidious about getting out of balance due to the flat discharge curve..
Bottom line go with something you understand and are comfortable with..
put some Fromeco Lithium Ion 5200 packs in the nose.. they are almost the same weight as the A123 pack.. you can charge them at 1C in the jet.. Have done it for years.. Thats my preferred setup with a regulator. High capacity, good Impedence. easy peasy to charge..
Call them and tell them what config and how long of wire and what plug.. I usually get them in a 2x2 long stick with 12 inches and a Deans.
No balancing required.
IFyou are not using regulators, then A123's or recently I started using BUDDY RC Life Packs.. you must balance charge A123/Life every time however.. If you balance charge and check them every time, you will be fine.. I did a lot and I mean a lot of testing on A123's back in the day.. they are insidious about getting out of balance due to the flat discharge curve..
Bottom line go with something you understand and are comfortable with..
Last edited by gooseF22; 10-17-2015 at 09:47 AM.
#23
My Feedback: (7)
If you are going to an on board regulator from a PB or CB... and need to bury the batteries, to me its a No Brainer..LiONs..
put some Fromeco Lithium Ion 5200 packs in the nose.. they are almost the same weight as the A123 pack.. you can charge them at 1C in the jet.. Have done it for years.. Thats my preferred setup with a regulator. High capacity, good Impedence. easy peasy to charge..
Call them and tell them what config and how long of wire and what plug.. I usually get them in a 2x2 long stick with 12 inches and a Deans.
No balancing required.
IFyou are not using regulators, then A123's or recently I started using BUDDY RC Life Packs.. you must balance charge A123/Life every time however.. If you balance charge and check them every time, you will be fine.. I did a lot and I mean a lot of testing on A123's back in the day.. they are insidious about getting out of balance due to the flat discharge curve..
Bottom line go with something you understand and are comfortable with..
put some Fromeco Lithium Ion 5200 packs in the nose.. they are almost the same weight as the A123 pack.. you can charge them at 1C in the jet.. Have done it for years.. Thats my preferred setup with a regulator. High capacity, good Impedence. easy peasy to charge..
Call them and tell them what config and how long of wire and what plug.. I usually get them in a 2x2 long stick with 12 inches and a Deans.
No balancing required.
IFyou are not using regulators, then A123's or recently I started using BUDDY RC Life Packs.. you must balance charge A123/Life every time however.. If you balance charge and check them every time, you will be fine.. I did a lot and I mean a lot of testing on A123's back in the day.. they are insidious about getting out of balance due to the flat discharge curve..
Bottom line go with something you understand and are comfortable with..
#24
Yup Wayne, respectfully, it was just my opinion for what its worth..
Most of my planes have A123/Life packs.
Yes Life's charge faster and are much more convenient, but if I have to bury the packs with a regulator, it is the proven safest power system.
If I had to bury packs without a regulator, then the 2300 A123 is a preferred. But I still like to be able to touch them for warmth, or smell them if they vent.. I have had about 6 cells vent over the years. but since I started using higher quality balance chargers, Life's have been perfect.
You pointed out the downsides of course.. everything is a tradeoff as you know.
If using Life's or A123's for buried packs, then suggest to Jetpilot24 to ditch the regulator, it isn't needed. Lots of ways to skin the cat, Thats why I really Like the Jeti CB200. and the spectrum Powersafe receivers..
Most of my planes have A123/Life packs.
Yes Life's charge faster and are much more convenient, but if I have to bury the packs with a regulator, it is the proven safest power system.
If I had to bury packs without a regulator, then the 2300 A123 is a preferred. But I still like to be able to touch them for warmth, or smell them if they vent.. I have had about 6 cells vent over the years. but since I started using higher quality balance chargers, Life's have been perfect.
You pointed out the downsides of course.. everything is a tradeoff as you know.
If using Life's or A123's for buried packs, then suggest to Jetpilot24 to ditch the regulator, it isn't needed. Lots of ways to skin the cat, Thats why I really Like the Jeti CB200. and the spectrum Powersafe receivers..
Last edited by gooseF22; 10-18-2015 at 04:57 AM.
#25
My Feedback: (7)
Yup Wayne, respectfully, it was just my opinion for what its worth..
Most of my planes have A123/Life packs.
Yes Life's charge faster and are much more convenient, but if I have to bury the packs with a regulator, it is the proven safest power system.
If I had to bury packs without a regulator, then the 2300 A123 is a preferred. But I still like to be able to touch them for warmth, or smell them if they vent.. I have had about 6 cells vent over the years. but since I started using higher quality balance chargers, Life's have been perfect.
You pointed out the downsides of course.. everything is a tradeoff as you know.
If using Life's or A123's for buried packs, then suggest to Jetpilot24 to ditch the regulator, it isn't needed. Lots of ways to skin the cat, Thats why I really Like the Jeti CB200. and the spectrum Powersafe receivers..
Most of my planes have A123/Life packs.
Yes Life's charge faster and are much more convenient, but if I have to bury the packs with a regulator, it is the proven safest power system.
If I had to bury packs without a regulator, then the 2300 A123 is a preferred. But I still like to be able to touch them for warmth, or smell them if they vent.. I have had about 6 cells vent over the years. but since I started using higher quality balance chargers, Life's have been perfect.
You pointed out the downsides of course.. everything is a tradeoff as you know.
If using Life's or A123's for buried packs, then suggest to Jetpilot24 to ditch the regulator, it isn't needed. Lots of ways to skin the cat, Thats why I really Like the Jeti CB200. and the spectrum Powersafe receivers..
I also always liked the power-safe receivers and now that I've switched to Jeti, I like the CB200 even better. Still, for some of my models that I don't feel need a power expander such as the CB200, I still prefer the simplicity of a single receiver. For example, my Boomerang XL, which I allow others to fly so they can try a turbine, has a single receiver since my DS16 can't use dual path while operating in Student/Teacher mode. If I didn't have the requirement of using student teacher mode, the boomerang may well have a CB200 installed. Still, review of the telemetry logs from MANY flights on the Boomerang have shown that the single receiver has always performed flawlessly and that it was a perfectly good choice for this model.