After a major crash
10-08-2015, 03:10 PM
#26
I have had 66 flights with this jet. This was just a odd fluke. Ive had this set up for two years. The 14mz has poor factory battery life. I modified to use a 8000mah pack so dont have to charge as much. As stated things happen and am fortunate no one got hurt. Also got the jet home in one piece a miracle in itself. Just need to fix the intake duct.
2nd. You probably shouldn't have a turbine waiver since you obviously don't read or know the rules. If radio contact is lost, the turbine should shut down automatically.. I make it a priority to check this every time i go flying just to make sure as I don't want to be the guy who gets turbines banned at my club b/c of a major brush fire.
10-08-2015, 04:23 PM
#27
I had a mishap yesterday on the skymaster f16 1/6th scale. The stupidest thing happen i was about to land and u know i fly with a tray for the radio. The stupid 8000 2s battery develcro and fell off the tray and disconnect the radio
No control the plane went in. But because i was going to land the throttle last input was down and little left on the bank. It actually crash landed on 5 feet tall grassy bushes. I got so lucky and the engine was still on. So quickly put the battery back the radio and shut the motor down.
Damage front intake duct, mounting plate for retract, and the plastic for the canopy.
People thought i was the lucky guy in the world to get the plane back in one piece. It could of been alot worse as in catch on fire etc..
Hopefully my friends will get it back up for next year
No control the plane went in. But because i was going to land the throttle last input was down and little left on the bank. It actually crash landed on 5 feet tall grassy bushes. I got so lucky and the engine was still on. So quickly put the battery back the radio and shut the motor down.
Damage front intake duct, mounting plate for retract, and the plastic for the canopy.
People thought i was the lucky guy in the world to get the plane back in one piece. It could of been alot worse as in catch on fire etc..
Hopefully my friends will get it back up for next year
There is so much wrong here with your post,,,, First of all in your post you admit that you do not have the mandatory failsafe setup on your 16, and from your own words it sounds as if you don't even know your supposed to have a failsafe setup. You should be embarrassed and who ever signed you off should be ashamed. There is so much more involved with flying these models than just fueling taking off and landing. You are missing the very basics, before you got your waiver you should have demonstrated that you know how to handle emergency situations, such as wet starts, AND that you know how to setup and verify your failsafe is working. ITS A MANDATORY REQUIREMENT. If you lose radio signal your turbine should shut down, to prevent exactly what you described, lucky for you the plane was almost down when it happened,, can you imagine the results if this happened while you were doing a speed pass,, according to your statement, the jet would have stayed at the last signal,, SO you would watch your jet fly away wide open, with unimaginable results. The purpose of my post is not personal, it is to help protect our hobby, the public, and You. Now you know you are doing it wrong,, FIX THE PROBLEM,,
The first Step is to read this, these are the AMA rules for waiver holders,,, You should know them all, and if you don't then who ever signed you off should be educated, and whipped for signing you off,,,
https://www.modelaircraft.org/files/510-a.pdf
The second step is ask for help with what you don't understand, seek advice from other waiver holders, Or post a question on this forum, If I remember reading correctly you have a kingtech in your 16, I am familiar with setting the failsafe up on the ECU, PM me if you need, ALTHOUGH I ADMIT I cant help you with that futaba radio, but many on here can,
Please Ask for Help,, You will catch grief, there are a ton of drama queens on this site, but you will also get help, that's what we all should be here to do, help and educate each other,,,
Last edited by raron455; 10-08-2015 at 04:26 PM.
10-08-2015, 04:35 PM
#28
When I was looking at getting into jets, but was balking a bit at the expense, a grizzled veteran advised that if I couldn't stomach putting a jet on the driveway and stomping it into pieces, then I shouldn't get into jets. His point was just as Dr Scoles suggests: you have to be able to handle the chance of a crash and total loss. Doesn't make a crash suck any less, it just goes with the territory.
10-09-2015, 01:42 AM
#31
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This picture answers your question, John sent it to me yesterday, F18F nose and left wing...no time for repairs...excellent service from Anton and John and right on time as they said
.
.
I got it directly from my boy who got it directly from Skymaster, I have never bought a jet new, He was the one telling me that Skymaster would not want to sell me just a fuse and wing as it will be to much work for them. I sent Andy an email today asking if he would sell just a fuse and wing, but I have to wait and see what he says. My boy emailed him for a completly new kit with out all the internal goodies, retracts, pipe etc and the price was $1850 shipped.
So I guess I should ask has anyone got a replancement fuse and wing from Skymaster before?
The good thing is this paint skeem dose not have any color that gose from the fuse to the wing so there is no worry of the paint lines maching up with new and old parts.
So I guess I should ask has anyone got a replancement fuse and wing from Skymaster before?
The good thing is this paint skeem dose not have any color that gose from the fuse to the wing so there is no worry of the paint lines maching up with new and old parts.
10-09-2015, 03:32 AM
#32
Originally Posted by [email protected]
when you crash dont worry just get another one and go right on>if you want to be with the big boys you pay for it
10-09-2015, 11:48 AM
#34
I would give it a couple of days for the bite to ease up.
Some times after a few days, that which looked totaled does not look so bad.
Once you peel away some of the really mangled stuff the remainder looks much better.
I have also seen someone that really should have known better loose a jet on the takeoff run because he never set up the fail safe. He lost RX power just after advancing the throttle for take off, the plane never rotated because he had no elevator control and did a very fast taxi across the field and into the creek where it caught fire. I guess there is no safer place to have a fire than while floating on water. BUT if it had failsafe setup, it would have just rolled to a stop in the middle of the field with no harm done. I wonder just how common it is for people to ignore setting up failsafe. I set it up on everything that has the ability to set it up, even the tiniest park flier.
Some times after a few days, that which looked totaled does not look so bad.
Once you peel away some of the really mangled stuff the remainder looks much better.
I have also seen someone that really should have known better loose a jet on the takeoff run because he never set up the fail safe. He lost RX power just after advancing the throttle for take off, the plane never rotated because he had no elevator control and did a very fast taxi across the field and into the creek where it caught fire. I guess there is no safer place to have a fire than while floating on water. BUT if it had failsafe setup, it would have just rolled to a stop in the middle of the field with no harm done. I wonder just how common it is for people to ignore setting up failsafe. I set it up on everything that has the ability to set it up, even the tiniest park flier.
10-09-2015, 12:15 PM
#35
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Hey Mike, Sorry for your loss.
The only way you can be guaranteed you won't lose a jet is to not fly a jet.
This hobby is not for the faint of heart. We are like a bunch of adrenaline junkies taking risks with flying treasure that can become trash in the blink of an eye. On the brighter side we almost always get to walk away with our body and health intact.
If the risks weren't there neither would be the rush you get with a great landing or a fast, roaring low pass.
I've crashed a few. Some have been more painful than others. The worst ones are the mysteries where you can't figure out what happened.
The easiest ones are the ones where after a few weeks of repairs you are back in the air again.
My most tragic was losing a Byron F-16 at Rabbit Dry Lake 30 years ago. I had what seemed like my life savings wrapped up in it, had months of hard work building it and it was flying GREAT! Pulling a tight horizontal turn and before I knew what happened, snap, it broke out of the turn on it's own and went in like a lawn dart. I was devastated. I never knew what happened. I suspect it was an accelerated stall or perhaps the wing locator pin popped out. It was the worst. The whole cost of the plane, motor radio and everything was less that the cost of 1/2 of a turbine but it was all I had.
We've all had crashes, if you don't you are not flying enough!
At the beginning of the year I Fireballed my SM Mig-29. I was doing flat spins with the vectored thrust and did one too many. At full power I was making progress but was still about 5 feet too low. It was like a little mushroom cloud and I lost EVERYTHING! Not even a wheel or landing gear was salvageable.
9 months later I maidened my new Mig-29 (below) and I'm back in saddle again! I've only put three flight on her and superstitiously I didn't want to fly it anymore till I go to Best in the West next week.
We all feel for you, Mike. We've all been there. Hope you are back flying soon!
The only way you can be guaranteed you won't lose a jet is to not fly a jet.
This hobby is not for the faint of heart. We are like a bunch of adrenaline junkies taking risks with flying treasure that can become trash in the blink of an eye. On the brighter side we almost always get to walk away with our body and health intact.
If the risks weren't there neither would be the rush you get with a great landing or a fast, roaring low pass.
I've crashed a few. Some have been more painful than others. The worst ones are the mysteries where you can't figure out what happened.
The easiest ones are the ones where after a few weeks of repairs you are back in the air again.
My most tragic was losing a Byron F-16 at Rabbit Dry Lake 30 years ago. I had what seemed like my life savings wrapped up in it, had months of hard work building it and it was flying GREAT! Pulling a tight horizontal turn and before I knew what happened, snap, it broke out of the turn on it's own and went in like a lawn dart. I was devastated. I never knew what happened. I suspect it was an accelerated stall or perhaps the wing locator pin popped out. It was the worst. The whole cost of the plane, motor radio and everything was less that the cost of 1/2 of a turbine but it was all I had.
We've all had crashes, if you don't you are not flying enough!
At the beginning of the year I Fireballed my SM Mig-29. I was doing flat spins with the vectored thrust and did one too many. At full power I was making progress but was still about 5 feet too low. It was like a little mushroom cloud and I lost EVERYTHING! Not even a wheel or landing gear was salvageable.
9 months later I maidened my new Mig-29 (below) and I'm back in saddle again! I've only put three flight on her and superstitiously I didn't want to fly it anymore till I go to Best in the West next week.
We all feel for you, Mike. We've all been there. Hope you are back flying soon!
10-09-2015, 12:31 PM
#36
Thanks guys for the support, the effect has worn off and I have moved on to the next project. I know we all lose planes from time to time, I guess the bigger problem I have now is while I loved this little Skymaster F86 it just made me want the bigger one now. Lol. After the crash and diesel fuel algee issues I was just haveing a bad jet week. But it's a new weekend tomorrow and I got my F15 fixed and added smoke to my Eurosport so I'm looking forward to bring up some fuel this weekend
10-09-2015, 05:14 PM
#37
Mike,
Let me tell you about my start and nearly finish in jets.
1999, I started with a DF DL aeromodels Cyclone. OS91 and Dynamax fan. Long story short, blown con rod on the maiden nearly cost me the jet. Saved it and put a new engine in (not happy about a $600 first flight for engine with shadel upgrade). Anyway, flew it 11 more times. 13th flight at a different field and an engine out in the worst possible place did cost me the jet. I touched down on the runway which ended with a cliff. Jet rolled off the end of the cliff and that was it.
Ordered a RAM750 and a fiberclassics Kangaroo (pre comparf) I flew the Kangaroo mostly problem free outside of a couple retract issues here and there and began building an Aviation design Exocet. I finished the exocet and flew it 5 times before a spring air nose gear retract decided to collapse on my takeoff run on grass and dug the nose into the dirt and tore the nose off ingesting some crap into the turbine.
Sent the turbine away for repair and in the meantime bought a second RAM750. Skymaster was new on the scene and I ended up getting a Grippen. Built the grippen and went to do the maiden. Engine started as usual and promptly blew a rear bearing. This was the engine that I JUST got back from RAM. Rear bearing went and the turbine wheel touched the side and blew apart. So, that same day (it was a local event I was hosting) I put my 2nd RAM into it. Very first run and boof....... the compressor wheel came apart. One has to remember that back in the day, the RAM750 was a $4000 engine and I blew 2 up in one day and never got to fly. I was done, I was so pissed off that I was just plain done.
Eventually I bought a new AMT Pegasus and a used Eurosport (again, a fiberclassics version, not comp arf). I had limited success with the Eurosport as it was used and had some issues but it got me flying again. The AMT was flawless. Soon after I bought a new PST1300 (followed by 4 more PST's which all gave me some degrees of hassle but were overall good engines. I had a few different jets with varying degrees of success but soon learned that buying cheap meant buying twice at that stage (lack of experience meant troubleshooting was always difficult).
I went through a multitude of different manufactures engines and in the end AMT is where I always ended up.
Bottom line is, my foray into jets in 1999/2000 cost me a pile of money. That first Kangaroo was almost $10,000 up and running, today it is so inexpensive to get into jets it's almost laughable. I persevered and made sure that I spent my money wisely, this meant saving to buy the best I could instead of whatever I could afford. I don't need the bling, I don't have any extra's in my jets for blinky lights or anodized purple *****, but it's all reliable. The jets I have now I just fuel and fly. The only time something goes wrong is when it's in my thumbs which we all do from time to time.
When something goes wrong it does get me down but I learned long ago to put it aside and when the time is right I'll come back to it. It is after all a hobby and should always be remembered as such.
Let me tell you about my start and nearly finish in jets.
1999, I started with a DF DL aeromodels Cyclone. OS91 and Dynamax fan. Long story short, blown con rod on the maiden nearly cost me the jet. Saved it and put a new engine in (not happy about a $600 first flight for engine with shadel upgrade). Anyway, flew it 11 more times. 13th flight at a different field and an engine out in the worst possible place did cost me the jet. I touched down on the runway which ended with a cliff. Jet rolled off the end of the cliff and that was it.
Ordered a RAM750 and a fiberclassics Kangaroo (pre comparf) I flew the Kangaroo mostly problem free outside of a couple retract issues here and there and began building an Aviation design Exocet. I finished the exocet and flew it 5 times before a spring air nose gear retract decided to collapse on my takeoff run on grass and dug the nose into the dirt and tore the nose off ingesting some crap into the turbine.
Sent the turbine away for repair and in the meantime bought a second RAM750. Skymaster was new on the scene and I ended up getting a Grippen. Built the grippen and went to do the maiden. Engine started as usual and promptly blew a rear bearing. This was the engine that I JUST got back from RAM. Rear bearing went and the turbine wheel touched the side and blew apart. So, that same day (it was a local event I was hosting) I put my 2nd RAM into it. Very first run and boof....... the compressor wheel came apart. One has to remember that back in the day, the RAM750 was a $4000 engine and I blew 2 up in one day and never got to fly. I was done, I was so pissed off that I was just plain done.
Eventually I bought a new AMT Pegasus and a used Eurosport (again, a fiberclassics version, not comp arf). I had limited success with the Eurosport as it was used and had some issues but it got me flying again. The AMT was flawless. Soon after I bought a new PST1300 (followed by 4 more PST's which all gave me some degrees of hassle but were overall good engines. I had a few different jets with varying degrees of success but soon learned that buying cheap meant buying twice at that stage (lack of experience meant troubleshooting was always difficult).
I went through a multitude of different manufactures engines and in the end AMT is where I always ended up.
Bottom line is, my foray into jets in 1999/2000 cost me a pile of money. That first Kangaroo was almost $10,000 up and running, today it is so inexpensive to get into jets it's almost laughable. I persevered and made sure that I spent my money wisely, this meant saving to buy the best I could instead of whatever I could afford. I don't need the bling, I don't have any extra's in my jets for blinky lights or anodized purple *****, but it's all reliable. The jets I have now I just fuel and fly. The only time something goes wrong is when it's in my thumbs which we all do from time to time.
When something goes wrong it does get me down but I learned long ago to put it aside and when the time is right I'll come back to it. It is after all a hobby and should always be remembered as such.
10-11-2015, 07:33 AM
#39
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It hurt's and su..'. big time when you lose a bird.
The $$ lost is a pain but brother jack D will kill that in the night on disaster day ;-)
But the time spend in ordering, waiting, getting frustrated by false delivery time promises, building time, and every thing that gets in the way on this proces (2 jong kids, minister of War and Finance etc. etc.)
That's what really hurts and drives me to the wall.
The $$ lost is a pain but brother jack D will kill that in the night on disaster day ;-)
But the time spend in ordering, waiting, getting frustrated by false delivery time promises, building time, and every thing that gets in the way on this proces (2 jong kids, minister of War and Finance etc. etc.)
That's what really hurts and drives me to the wall.
10-11-2015, 08:35 AM
#40
Yep I guess I'm getting better at handling these loses.
I has a great day yesterday, 4 flights with Eurosport with smoke [so much fun, had to stop looking at the smoke my self lol]
And 5 flights on my F15 with new 30 pounder vs 24 pounds as before, live it now. Now I want to get full missle for the f15.
But the last flight of the day was a new to me Top Flite Gaint corsair, and I can't believe it, but the prop split in the air, it was crazy it was a loud pop, sounded like a back fire, it shook the motor almost all the way out and dead sticked, bent one gear, no biggy, time for a nice scale prop now, but never seen or Hurd of a prop exploding. Lol
I has a great day yesterday, 4 flights with Eurosport with smoke [so much fun, had to stop looking at the smoke my self lol]
And 5 flights on my F15 with new 30 pounder vs 24 pounds as before, live it now. Now I want to get full missle for the f15.
But the last flight of the day was a new to me Top Flite Gaint corsair, and I can't believe it, but the prop split in the air, it was crazy it was a loud pop, sounded like a back fire, it shook the motor almost all the way out and dead sticked, bent one gear, no biggy, time for a nice scale prop now, but never seen or Hurd of a prop exploding. Lol
10-11-2015, 03:43 PM
#43
Originally Posted by [email protected]
if your going to play with the rich dont cry about any thing or go back to the poor peoples planes
Yay,, I finally made it,
Last edited by raron455; 10-12-2015 at 03:04 AM.
10-11-2015, 05:46 PM
#44
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Go back to flying the poor mans planes?? What an awful thing to say.....crashing jets is no fun, but comes with the territory. Pick yourself, and get back in the game. The greatest RC thrill for me is to fly my jets, come home with everything in one piece, and realize I can fly this stuff! Not bad for an old fart!
10-12-2015, 02:58 AM
#46
Am I the only one who has a big pity party after they crash there favorite jet?
I haven't crashed in a year, but after today I feel like I shouldn't even be flying again.
I'm more low budget than most of you guys, but I got my dreams jet last chistmas. Skymaster F86 with P80.jetcat
I have been having issues with the nose gear getting stuck on the big door behind the nose wheel.
Well I finally fixed it, (put that door on its own valve)
Today took it out for a test flight, while getting it ready the door on the nose gear broke,( its attachment to the strut and acts as a air brake. I thought no biggy I didn't drive all the way out here to just go home.
Today there was no wind vs every day since I moved to IL 4 months ago. I got the gear to work for the first time and feel in love with this jet, or acted my Scale Master pattern. Amazing
Go to land like the other times and she just blows right buy, major overshot. So next attempt I go farther out pull the power all the way back and glide her in, she was going to land towards the end of the runway, I thought I have never landed it that bad and floored it, but I was only 5 feet up, (I fly on a huge Sod/grass farm) no trees except for the 4 3ft tall bushes next to the creek, that I hit as it too so long for the motor to spool back up.
It was all my falt, my pride in making nice landings, my being cheap and not getting a better / newer fast thottle response motor bit me.
I love fiberglass repairs but this is to far gone I need a new fuse and left wing, I was told by my boy Skymaster will not sell me these parts that I will need t o get a new jet without - retracts, pipe, tanks.
It's going to take me 4 months to come up with the $ due to the holidays, I'm so disappointed I feel like I should not be aloud to anymore, Ashamed
How do you guys feel after a crash (if you guys do)
One guy who helped me carry it back said I thought jet guys never crash......
I haven't crashed in a year, but after today I feel like I shouldn't even be flying again.
I'm more low budget than most of you guys, but I got my dreams jet last chistmas. Skymaster F86 with P80.jetcat
I have been having issues with the nose gear getting stuck on the big door behind the nose wheel.
Well I finally fixed it, (put that door on its own valve)
Today took it out for a test flight, while getting it ready the door on the nose gear broke,( its attachment to the strut and acts as a air brake. I thought no biggy I didn't drive all the way out here to just go home.
Today there was no wind vs every day since I moved to IL 4 months ago. I got the gear to work for the first time and feel in love with this jet, or acted my Scale Master pattern. Amazing
Go to land like the other times and she just blows right buy, major overshot. So next attempt I go farther out pull the power all the way back and glide her in, she was going to land towards the end of the runway, I thought I have never landed it that bad and floored it, but I was only 5 feet up, (I fly on a huge Sod/grass farm) no trees except for the 4 3ft tall bushes next to the creek, that I hit as it too so long for the motor to spool back up.
It was all my falt, my pride in making nice landings, my being cheap and not getting a better / newer fast thottle response motor bit me.
I love fiberglass repairs but this is to far gone I need a new fuse and left wing, I was told by my boy Skymaster will not sell me these parts that I will need t o get a new jet without - retracts, pipe, tanks.
It's going to take me 4 months to come up with the $ due to the holidays, I'm so disappointed I feel like I should not be aloud to anymore, Ashamed
How do you guys feel after a crash (if you guys do)
One guy who helped me carry it back said I thought jet guys never crash......
Bob
10-12-2015, 06:49 AM
#47
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All,
This past weekend I lost my beloved Boomerang at the Plum Island October Jet Fest in New England. The cause was pilot error/ disorientation after flying through low-angle sun glare during a windy afternoon. The model spiraled into a tidal marsh after I managed a quick turbine shutdown-there was no fire. The remains had to be extracted from bog-like soil with a long-handled shovel. All of the quasi-salvageable parts fit within a shoe box! The wooden airframe was donated as kindling for the evening fire pit burn. I had flown this Boomer for over 4 years at numerous jet rallies and club fun flies in 5 US States and 2 Canadian provinces. This was my 2nd loss in flying jets over 8 years but was still hard to swallow-the first was a stall/snap during a landing approach. The lesson-learned was not to fly during unfavorable conditions such a low angle, high winds or other site limitations. I will also try to be totally focused on the flight itself and not be distracted by other airborne jets or site activity. Some of this distraction was due to asking my spotter for a time hack on my transmitter timer for a landing decision. I perform detailed pre-flights at home prior to a jet event and use a checklist for each flying session. This practice has caught many potential problems before they became critical or threatened safety. My next task is to clean the muck from the remaining components and ship the turbine to the manufacturer for repair service-likewise for the airborne radio system. I'll resume building on another "everyday" sport model for future jet flying. For me, model jet flying is a great pleasure but must be respected for safety and crash avoidance.
Rgds,
Art ARRO
This past weekend I lost my beloved Boomerang at the Plum Island October Jet Fest in New England. The cause was pilot error/ disorientation after flying through low-angle sun glare during a windy afternoon. The model spiraled into a tidal marsh after I managed a quick turbine shutdown-there was no fire. The remains had to be extracted from bog-like soil with a long-handled shovel. All of the quasi-salvageable parts fit within a shoe box! The wooden airframe was donated as kindling for the evening fire pit burn. I had flown this Boomer for over 4 years at numerous jet rallies and club fun flies in 5 US States and 2 Canadian provinces. This was my 2nd loss in flying jets over 8 years but was still hard to swallow-the first was a stall/snap during a landing approach. The lesson-learned was not to fly during unfavorable conditions such a low angle, high winds or other site limitations. I will also try to be totally focused on the flight itself and not be distracted by other airborne jets or site activity. Some of this distraction was due to asking my spotter for a time hack on my transmitter timer for a landing decision. I perform detailed pre-flights at home prior to a jet event and use a checklist for each flying session. This practice has caught many potential problems before they became critical or threatened safety. My next task is to clean the muck from the remaining components and ship the turbine to the manufacturer for repair service-likewise for the airborne radio system. I'll resume building on another "everyday" sport model for future jet flying. For me, model jet flying is a great pleasure but must be respected for safety and crash avoidance.
Rgds,
Art ARRO
10-16-2015, 07:12 PM
#48
Mike
I had a lot of planes.. Ron Ballard told me this.
Pick one.. fly it 100 times, have a second one ready.. if needed fly it 100 times..shine the rest up for the future and park em.. you will have a lot more fun..
Have interchangeable engines if you have two.. simplicity..
I have an élan, kingcat, and a flash(parked).. The élan went in last year due to an engine issue, so this next year, I will have 2 JetMunts 140's and the élan(rebuilt), and the kingcat.. thats it..
Last year I flew only the élan all year.. focused on it.. kept it running and serviced.. kept it simple.. had a lot more fun.. always had the kincgat in reserve, flew it a few times..
remember its a hobby.. pace yourself..
I had a lot of planes.. Ron Ballard told me this.
Pick one.. fly it 100 times, have a second one ready.. if needed fly it 100 times..shine the rest up for the future and park em.. you will have a lot more fun..
Have interchangeable engines if you have two.. simplicity..
I have an élan, kingcat, and a flash(parked).. The élan went in last year due to an engine issue, so this next year, I will have 2 JetMunts 140's and the élan(rebuilt), and the kingcat.. thats it..
Last year I flew only the élan all year.. focused on it.. kept it running and serviced.. kept it simple.. had a lot more fun.. always had the kincgat in reserve, flew it a few times..
remember its a hobby.. pace yourself..
10-17-2015, 06:20 AM
#49
10-17-2015, 01:05 PM
#50
Oso this is what happens with my gripen doing rotation and getting attitude my turbine was not producing the full power the turbine was working but no power so doing the turn to safe zone I lost the air speed witch cost me the air frame the good think I manage to turn the turbine off right befor the impact the safe all my other stuff ,to actually planning to rebuild the jet doing the winter I hope .
i think my pipe collapse that what cost the jet to crash.