FAA's Enforcable 400 Feet = Death to Jets?
12-29-2015, 06:55 AM
#176
Page 8 of the NPRM Just Guessing but it Looks to me to be of no concern to UAS flyers flying for FUN an d RECREATION. Wright or Wrong
I. Executive SummaryA. Purpose of the Regulatory ActionThis rulemaking proposes operating requirements to allow small unmanned aircraftsystems (small UAS) to operate for non-hobby or non-recreational purposes. A small UASconsists of a small unmanned aircraft (which, as defined by statute, is an unmanned aircraftweighing less than 55 pounds3) and equipment necessary for the safe and efficientoperation of that aircraft. The FAA has accommodated non-recreational small UAS usethrough various mechanisms, such as special airworthiness certificates, exemptions, andcertificates of waiver or authorization (COA). This proposed rule would be the next phaseof integrating small UAS into the NAS.The following are examples of possible small UAS operations that could beconducted under this proposed framework:
Crop monitoring/inspection; Research and development; Educational/academic uses; Power-line/pipeline inspection in hilly or mountainous terrain; Antenna inspections; Aiding certain rescue operations such as locating snow avalanche victims;3Pub. L. No. 112-95, sec. 331(6) 8
I. Executive SummaryA. Purpose of the Regulatory ActionThis rulemaking proposes operating requirements to allow small unmanned aircraftsystems (small UAS) to operate for non-hobby or non-recreational purposes. A small UASconsists of a small unmanned aircraft (which, as defined by statute, is an unmanned aircraftweighing less than 55 pounds3) and equipment necessary for the safe and efficientoperation of that aircraft. The FAA has accommodated non-recreational small UAS usethrough various mechanisms, such as special airworthiness certificates, exemptions, andcertificates of waiver or authorization (COA). This proposed rule would be the next phaseof integrating small UAS into the NAS.The following are examples of possible small UAS operations that could beconducted under this proposed framework:
Crop monitoring/inspection; Research and development; Educational/academic uses; Power-line/pipeline inspection in hilly or mountainous terrain; Antenna inspections; Aiding certain rescue operations such as locating snow avalanche victims;3Pub. L. No. 112-95, sec. 331(6) 8
12-29-2015, 07:01 AM
#177
Did they include "Chinese lanterns"? Those things just go wherever the wind blows. Or, how about every kid who holds a balloon must register in case they let go accidentally and the balloon then enters the FAA enforceable airspace!!!! What if my pet bird escapes before I get a chance to register it?
So many questions.
So many questions.
12-29-2015, 07:10 AM
#179
12-29-2015, 08:14 AM
#180
Did they include "Chinese lanterns"? Those things just go wherever the wind blows. Or, how about every kid who holds a balloon must register in case they let go accidentally and the balloon then enters the FAA enforceable airspace!!!! What if my pet bird escapes before I get a chance to register it?
So many questions.
So many questions.
But just in case
, it has to weigh over 1/2 pound and have a communication/control link from the ground
12-29-2015, 10:55 AM
#182
My Feedback: (11)
A couple questions:
How much do I have to spend on an altimeter that can accurately tell me the difference between 200 and 400 feet, and fit into my aircraft?
How do I get that information back to me, I don't own a telemetric radio.
In general, what is the cost I bear to ensure I follow the law?
At what point do we measure the 400 feet? ASL? from the ground to aircraft? From my physical location?
I could fly off a mountain face 1000 feet up, aircraft is 200 feet above me but 1200 feet above ground. I could fly over a 200 foot hill, can I be 600 feet up then from my location but 400 above the hill?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaguen...onal_vagueness
How much do I have to spend on an altimeter that can accurately tell me the difference between 200 and 400 feet, and fit into my aircraft?
How do I get that information back to me, I don't own a telemetric radio.
In general, what is the cost I bear to ensure I follow the law?
At what point do we measure the 400 feet? ASL? from the ground to aircraft? From my physical location?
I could fly off a mountain face 1000 feet up, aircraft is 200 feet above me but 1200 feet above ground. I could fly over a 200 foot hill, can I be 600 feet up then from my location but 400 above the hill?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaguen...onal_vagueness
12-29-2015, 11:09 AM
#183
You tell how high 400 feet is by your judgement. Same way we have been doing it since 1981(Original issue for AC 91-57, since cancelled).
No need for any equipment. Stay under 400 and when someone asks how high you fly tell them under 400. Last part is very important.
No need for any equipment. Stay under 400 and when someone asks how high you fly tell them under 400. Last part is very important.
12-29-2015, 11:19 AM
#185
A couple questions:How much do I have to spend on an altimeter that can accurately tell me the difference between 200 and 400 feet, and fit into my aircraft?How do I get that information back to me, I don't own a telemetric radio.In general, what is the cost I bear to ensure I follow the law?At what point do we measure the 400 feet? ASL? from the ground to aircraft? From my physical location?I could fly off a mountain face 1000 feet up, aircraft is 200 feet above me but 1200 feet above ground. I could fly over a 200 foot hill, can I be 600 feet up then from my location but 400 above the hill?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaguen...onal_vagueness
12-29-2015, 11:28 AM
#186
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Good Question. The idiotic government never thinks that far out. It's always pass this bill now and read it later so we can find out what is in it. The gooberment is full of morons who sit around all day trying to think of new ways to screw us yet they have no clue as to what they are doing.Like I said, I'm not registering unless I get forced to.
12-29-2015, 11:30 AM
#188
12-29-2015, 11:35 AM
#189
My Feedback: (11)
"Under vagueness doctrine, a statute is also void for vagueness if a legislature's delegation of authority to judges and/or administrators is so extensive that it would lead to arbitrary prosecutions."
AMA needs to argue this, not only do we not know if we are breaking the law, how can a cop know? The things I mentioned above would come into play, as would relative position. I want to follow the law, I do, but I have no way to follow it other than the "eyeball" method. My eyeball is different than yours, and a LEOs.
I suppose a range finder could work but I doubt an LEO is going to know how to apply the trigonometry to figure it out.
Now of course in extreme circumstances, when an rc aircraft nearly collides with an airliner at 5000 feet that is a different story.
Would cops bother us? Go watch you tube. You will get your answer there. Not to mention that 100s of FOGs/pencil ducks at our own clubs that just sit around causing issues is more what I am worried about.
AMA needs to argue this, not only do we not know if we are breaking the law, how can a cop know? The things I mentioned above would come into play, as would relative position. I want to follow the law, I do, but I have no way to follow it other than the "eyeball" method. My eyeball is different than yours, and a LEOs.
I suppose a range finder could work but I doubt an LEO is going to know how to apply the trigonometry to figure it out.
Now of course in extreme circumstances, when an rc aircraft nearly collides with an airliner at 5000 feet that is a different story.
Would cops bother us? Go watch you tube. You will get your answer there. Not to mention that 100s of FOGs/pencil ducks at our own clubs that just sit around causing issues is more what I am worried about.
12-29-2015, 11:42 AM
#190
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I seriously hope so, but you got to realize what we are dealing with in regards to voters and the infamous "power in numbers" slogan. In simple terms, look at today's society, not even superman would be looked at as a hero.
Last edited by SushiHunter; 12-29-2015 at 11:47 AM.
12-29-2015, 12:10 PM
#191
"Under vagueness doctrine, a statute is also void for vagueness if a legislature's delegation of authority to judges and/or administrators is so extensive that it would lead to arbitrary prosecutions."AMA needs to argue this, not only do we not know if we are breaking the law, how can a cop know? The things I mentioned above would come into play, as would relative position. I want to follow the law, I do, but I have no way to follow it other than the "eyeball" method. My eyeball is different than yours, and a LEOs.I suppose a range finder could work but I doubt an LEO is going to know how to apply the trigonometry to figure it out.Now of course in extreme circumstances, when an rc aircraft nearly collides with an airliner at 5000 feet that is a different story.Would cops bother us? Go watch you tube. You will get your answer there. Not to mention that 100s of FOGs/pencil ducks at our own clubs that just sit around causing issues is more what I am worried about.
12-29-2015, 03:30 PM
#192
"Under vagueness doctrine, a statute is also void for vagueness if a legislature's delegation of authority to judges and/or administrators is so extensive that it would lead to arbitrary prosecutions."
Tell it to the FAA or any Law congress makes. Reads Like the grapes of rath or some Hemingway book.
AMA needs to argue this, not only do we not know if we are breaking the law, how can a cop know? The things I mentioned above would come into play, as would relative position. I want to follow the law, I do, but I have no way to follow it other than the "eyeball" method. My eyeball is different than yours, and a LEOs.
Wait a minute there a lot of people here Pissed at the AMA for spending the first Million U want AMA dues to go up again? come on now.
I suppose a range finder could work but I doubt an LEO is going to know how to apply the trigonometry to figure it out. It's all automatic
Now of course in extreme circumstances, when an rc aircraft nearly collides with an airliner at 5000 feet that is a different story.
Would cops bother us? Go watch you tube. You will get your answer there. Not to mention that 100s of FOGs/pencil ducks at our own clubs that just sit around causing issues is more what I am worried about.
Tell it to the FAA or any Law congress makes. Reads Like the grapes of rath or some Hemingway book.
AMA needs to argue this, not only do we not know if we are breaking the law, how can a cop know? The things I mentioned above would come into play, as would relative position. I want to follow the law, I do, but I have no way to follow it other than the "eyeball" method. My eyeball is different than yours, and a LEOs.
Wait a minute there a lot of people here Pissed at the AMA for spending the first Million U want AMA dues to go up again? come on now.
I suppose a range finder could work but I doubt an LEO is going to know how to apply the trigonometry to figure it out. It's all automatic
Now of course in extreme circumstances, when an rc aircraft nearly collides with an airliner at 5000 feet that is a different story.
Would cops bother us? Go watch you tube. You will get your answer there. Not to mention that 100s of FOGs/pencil ducks at our own clubs that just sit around causing issues is more what I am worried about.
12-30-2015, 05:17 AM
#198
I submit that based on influential organizations like this favoring a strict 400' limit, it's not a matter of IF one is put in place, but merely a matter of HOW SOON one is put in place.
http://atwonline.com/safety/editorial-good-rule#
http://atwonline.com/safety/editorial-good-rule#
12-30-2015, 06:14 AM
#199
My Feedback: (2)
One of the fields I fly at is in Cherry Creek State Park- Denver,CO. We have been flying with a 400ft altitude restriction for over 35 years. The DRCE field is 2.75 miles from the North/South runway at Centennial Airport and lined up with that runway. The restriction was placed on the field when a 10ft span sailplane collided with a private twin engine airplane. A plane comes right over DRCE field every few minutes.
The sailplane fliers moved to a different field because the 400ft limit was not acceptable to them. .Since the collision the club has encouraged each flier to have a spotter. In my opinion the altitude restriction is violated many times a day but when notified a full scale is in the pattern the model flier will decend immediately. Usually the full scale is at 1000ft or slightly higher but occasionally we have a helicopter fly right over the field at 400-500ft. This is the biggest hazard.
Last summer I installed an altimeter in my 1/4 scale Cub. I can turn the altimeter reporting off and on at the transmitter so on my first flight I left it off and climbed out to what I estimated to be 400ft, turned it on and it reported 590ft. We have a unwritten agreement that turbine jets will not be flown at this field because the field is not compatible for high performance models.
I estimate that 75% of the flights at Cherry Creek now are electric powered. This type of model is more compatible with current conditions because the electric powered flier can better hear an approaching full scale.
The sailplane fliers moved to a different field because the 400ft limit was not acceptable to them. .Since the collision the club has encouraged each flier to have a spotter. In my opinion the altitude restriction is violated many times a day but when notified a full scale is in the pattern the model flier will decend immediately. Usually the full scale is at 1000ft or slightly higher but occasionally we have a helicopter fly right over the field at 400-500ft. This is the biggest hazard.
Last summer I installed an altimeter in my 1/4 scale Cub. I can turn the altimeter reporting off and on at the transmitter so on my first flight I left it off and climbed out to what I estimated to be 400ft, turned it on and it reported 590ft. We have a unwritten agreement that turbine jets will not be flown at this field because the field is not compatible for high performance models.
I estimate that 75% of the flights at Cherry Creek now are electric powered. This type of model is more compatible with current conditions because the electric powered flier can better hear an approaching full scale.
12-30-2015, 06:59 AM
#200
I submit that based on influential organizations like this favoring a strict 400' limit, it's not a matter of IF one is put in place, but merely a matter of HOW SOON one is put in place.
http://atwonline.com/safety/editorial-good-rule#
http://atwonline.com/safety/editorial-good-rule#
My 3.2m Extra going by at 399' in knife edge.
