FAA's Enforcable 400 Feet = Death to Jets?
01-11-2016, 08:42 AM
#302
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These are the people we need to watch out for . . .
01-11-2016, 11:49 AM
#303
I sat through the FAA presentation at the AMA convention yesterday, I believe the AMA has posted the whole of it (over 1 hour) on Youtube.
You can see it for yourselves, but the take away I got was nothing has changed with regard to 400 feet. You can fly over it if you are operating safely, and the FAA is looking at tweaking the language of the registration pages. Anyway you can watch it yourself.
EDIT the best part is that the AMA is saying 100% it is not a hard statutory limit, so you can whip that out to your "enthusiastic" club members and board members who believe 400 feet is a hard limit.
You can see it for yourselves, but the take away I got was nothing has changed with regard to 400 feet. You can fly over it if you are operating safely, and the FAA is looking at tweaking the language of the registration pages. Anyway you can watch it yourself.
EDIT the best part is that the AMA is saying 100% it is not a hard statutory limit, so you can whip that out to your "enthusiastic" club members and board members who believe 400 feet is a hard limit.
Last edited by mr_matt; 01-11-2016 at 12:01 PM.
01-11-2016, 04:44 PM
#304
I sat through the FAA presentation at the AMA convention yesterday, I believe the AMA has posted the whole of it (over 1 hour) on Youtube.
You can see it for yourselves, but the take away I got was nothing has changed with regard to 400 feet. You can fly over it if you are operating safely, and the FAA is looking at tweaking the language of the registration pages. Anyway you can watch it yourself.
EDIT the best part is that the AMA is saying 100% it is not a hard statutory limit, so you can whip that out to your "enthusiastic" club members and board members who believe 400 feet is a hard limit.
You can see it for yourselves, but the take away I got was nothing has changed with regard to 400 feet. You can fly over it if you are operating safely, and the FAA is looking at tweaking the language of the registration pages. Anyway you can watch it yourself.
EDIT the best part is that the AMA is saying 100% it is not a hard statutory limit, so you can whip that out to your "enthusiastic" club members and board members who believe 400 feet is a hard limit.
01-11-2016, 05:06 PM
#305
Originally Posted by mr_matt 
I sat through the FAA presentation at the AMA convention yesterday, I believe the AMA has posted the whole of it (over 1 hour) on Youtube.
You can see it for yourselves, but the take away I got was nothing has changed with regard to 400 feet. You can fly over it if you are operating safely, and the FAA is looking at tweaking the language of the registration pages. Anyway you can watch it yourself.
EDIT the best part is that the AMA is saying 100% it is not a hard statutory limit, so you can whip that out to your "enthusiastic" club members and board members who believe 400 feet is a hard limit.
mr_matt Where.s the URL man?
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown...ion&font=serif
01-11-2016, 06:30 PM
#309
The way I read the release is that the AMA is working with the FAA to that end, But the AMA is not in a position at this time to say for sure that will happen or when.
01-11-2016, 06:49 PM
#311
Yes, at the convention they were trying to work something out and both the AMA and the FAA said their IT groups said it was impossible in the near term. I might wait anyway.
I THINK (just my opinion) that the AMA was in a bit of a bind, if they had people go to the Feb 19th and not sign up (and then achieve no breakthrough with the FAA) and then a bunch of people loose the 5 bucks they would never hear the end of it.
I think it is good that the AMA is saying that CDs don't have to check for the FAA registration and that no AMA safety code changes are needed. We need that to keep clubs (and certain members) from freaking out.
I THINK (just my opinion) that the AMA was in a bit of a bind, if they had people go to the Feb 19th and not sign up (and then achieve no breakthrough with the FAA) and then a bunch of people loose the 5 bucks they would never hear the end of it.
I think it is good that the AMA is saying that CDs don't have to check for the FAA registration and that no AMA safety code changes are needed. We need that to keep clubs (and certain members) from freaking out.
01-11-2016, 07:22 PM
#312
Also, the altitude rule is crystal-clear: "Fly below 400 feet". Nothing about being near an airport or not, nothing about jets getting to go higher, and nothing about being special because you are an AMA member.
Is anyone besides the AMA surprised? I'm not.
Last edited by TTRotary; 01-11-2016 at 07:39 PM.
01-11-2016, 08:04 PM
#313
During the Q&A on the Video at the AMA expo the FAA guy stated it is just a guideline and so did the AMA representative on the video. Don't get me wrong I to feel like it will be law when they get final approval. The only hope is that on the video there was a lot of talk about reviewing it when it comes to Model aviation at a CBO site like AMA.
Keep in mind if you have a 55+ pound aircraft that is not required to have registration number and I would think nothing else would apply...I really not sure at this time. Yes if they make a blanket rule (law) then we are done.
I can't believe that will happen to the recreational AMA or CBO approved flying sites.
Keep in mind if you have a 55+ pound aircraft that is not required to have registration number and I would think nothing else would apply...I really not sure at this time. Yes if they make a blanket rule (law) then we are done.
I can't believe that will happen to the recreational AMA or CBO approved flying sites.
01-11-2016, 08:21 PM
#314
I just signed up. You get a separate identifier. Nothing to do with AMA, and no reference to AMA on the FAA website - they don't seem to exist as far as the FAA is concerned.
Also, the altitude rule is crystal-clear: "Fly below 400 feet". Nothing about being near an airport or not, nothing about jets getting to go higher, and nothing about being special because you are an AMA member.
Is anyone besides the AMA surprised? I'm not.
Also, the altitude rule is crystal-clear: "Fly below 400 feet". Nothing about being near an airport or not, nothing about jets getting to go higher, and nothing about being special because you are an AMA member.
Is anyone besides the AMA surprised? I'm not.
Bob
01-11-2016, 08:49 PM
#316
01-11-2016, 10:29 PM
#318
The following from the NPRM, soon to be law, should be noted:
IV. Examples of Regulations That Apply to Model Aircraft
The FAA could apply several regulations in part 91 when determining whether to take enforcement action against a model aircraft operator for endangering the NAS. The FAA’s general operating and flight rules are housed in part 91 of the FAA’s regulations. These rules are the baseline rules that apply to all aircraft operated in the United States with limited exceptions,
[SUP]14 and are the appropriate rules to apply when evaluating model aircraft operations. See 14 CFR 91.1. [/SUP]
[SUP]Rules relevant to these operations fall generally into three categories: (1) how the aircraft is operated; (2) operating rules for designated airspace; and, (3) special restrictions such as temporary flight restrictions (TFRs) and notices to airmen (NOTAMs). These rules are discussed in greater detail below. [/SUP]
[SUP]Rules addressing operation of the aircraft may include prohibitions on careless or reckless operation and dropping objects so as to create a hazard to persons or property. See 14 CFR 91.13 through 91.15. Additionally, § 91.113 establishes right-of-way rules for converging aircraft.[/SUP]
[SUP]15 [/SUP]
[SUP]Model aircraft that do not comply with those rules could be subject to FAA enforcement action.
And the following, from AC 91-57:
[/SUP]
e.Model aircraft operators should follow best practices including limiting operations to 400 feet above ground level (AGL).
Therefore, if you are observed to have exceeded 400AGL, you are considered to represent an endangerment to the NAS and are subject to enforcement action. Especially after you have certified you would limit operations to 400AGL in the process of registering yourself as a UAS operator (you have acknowledged the requirements on the FAA website). So, my view is that even though my piece of paper says "guideline" I remain fully at risk of being prosecuted for NAS endangerment if I am observed to have exceeded it.
IV. Examples of Regulations That Apply to Model Aircraft
The FAA could apply several regulations in part 91 when determining whether to take enforcement action against a model aircraft operator for endangering the NAS. The FAA’s general operating and flight rules are housed in part 91 of the FAA’s regulations. These rules are the baseline rules that apply to all aircraft operated in the United States with limited exceptions,
[SUP]14 and are the appropriate rules to apply when evaluating model aircraft operations. See 14 CFR 91.1. [/SUP]
[SUP]Rules relevant to these operations fall generally into three categories: (1) how the aircraft is operated; (2) operating rules for designated airspace; and, (3) special restrictions such as temporary flight restrictions (TFRs) and notices to airmen (NOTAMs). These rules are discussed in greater detail below. [/SUP]
[SUP]Rules addressing operation of the aircraft may include prohibitions on careless or reckless operation and dropping objects so as to create a hazard to persons or property. See 14 CFR 91.13 through 91.15. Additionally, § 91.113 establishes right-of-way rules for converging aircraft.[/SUP]
[SUP]15 [/SUP]
[SUP]Model aircraft that do not comply with those rules could be subject to FAA enforcement action.
And the following, from AC 91-57:
[/SUP]
e.Model aircraft operators should follow best practices including limiting operations to 400 feet above ground level (AGL).
Therefore, if you are observed to have exceeded 400AGL, you are considered to represent an endangerment to the NAS and are subject to enforcement action. Especially after you have certified you would limit operations to 400AGL in the process of registering yourself as a UAS operator (you have acknowledged the requirements on the FAA website). So, my view is that even though my piece of paper says "guideline" I remain fully at risk of being prosecuted for NAS endangerment if I am observed to have exceeded it.
01-11-2016, 10:44 PM
#319
The following from the NPRM, soon to be law, should be noted:
IV. Examples of Regulations That Apply to Model Aircraft
The FAA could apply several regulations in part 91 when determining whether to take enforcement action against a model aircraft operator for endangering the NAS. The FAA’s general operating and flight rules are housed in part 91 of the FAA’s regulations. These rules are the baseline rules that apply to all aircraft operated in the United States with limited exceptions,
[SUP]14 and are the appropriate rules to apply when evaluating model aircraft operations. See 14 CFR 91.1. [/SUP]
[SUP]Rules relevant to these operations fall generally into three categories: (1) how the aircraft is operated; (2) operating rules for designated airspace; and, (3) special restrictions such as temporary flight restrictions (TFRs) and notices to airmen (NOTAMs). These rules are discussed in greater detail below. [/SUP]
[SUP]Rules addressing operation of the aircraft may include prohibitions on careless or reckless operation and dropping objects so as to create a hazard to persons or property. See 14 CFR 91.13 through 91.15. Additionally, § 91.113 establishes right-of-way rules for converging aircraft.[/SUP]
[SUP]15 [/SUP]
[SUP]Model aircraft that do not comply with those rules could be subject to FAA enforcement action.
And the following, from AC 91-57:
[/SUP]
e.Model aircraft operators should follow best practices including limiting operations to 400 feet above ground level (AGL).
Therefore, if you are observed to have exceeded 400AGL, you are considered to represent an endangerment to the NAS and are subject to enforcement action. Especially after you have certified you would limit operations to 400AGL in the process of registering yourself as a UAS operator (you have acknowledged the requirements on the FAA website). So, my view is that even though my piece of paper says "guideline" I remain fully at risk of being prosecuted for NAS endangerment if I am observed to have exceeded it.
IV. Examples of Regulations That Apply to Model Aircraft
The FAA could apply several regulations in part 91 when determining whether to take enforcement action against a model aircraft operator for endangering the NAS. The FAA’s general operating and flight rules are housed in part 91 of the FAA’s regulations. These rules are the baseline rules that apply to all aircraft operated in the United States with limited exceptions,
[SUP]14 and are the appropriate rules to apply when evaluating model aircraft operations. See 14 CFR 91.1. [/SUP]
[SUP]Rules relevant to these operations fall generally into three categories: (1) how the aircraft is operated; (2) operating rules for designated airspace; and, (3) special restrictions such as temporary flight restrictions (TFRs) and notices to airmen (NOTAMs). These rules are discussed in greater detail below. [/SUP]
[SUP]Rules addressing operation of the aircraft may include prohibitions on careless or reckless operation and dropping objects so as to create a hazard to persons or property. See 14 CFR 91.13 through 91.15. Additionally, § 91.113 establishes right-of-way rules for converging aircraft.[/SUP]
[SUP]15 [/SUP]
[SUP]Model aircraft that do not comply with those rules could be subject to FAA enforcement action.
And the following, from AC 91-57:
[/SUP]
e.Model aircraft operators should follow best practices including limiting operations to 400 feet above ground level (AGL).
Therefore, if you are observed to have exceeded 400AGL, you are considered to represent an endangerment to the NAS and are subject to enforcement action. Especially after you have certified you would limit operations to 400AGL in the process of registering yourself as a UAS operator (you have acknowledged the requirements on the FAA website). So, my view is that even though my piece of paper says "guideline" I remain fully at risk of being prosecuted for NAS endangerment if I am observed to have exceeded it.
hang us with. I could be wrong but until the FAA puts out some clear and concise language we cant be sure.
01-12-2016, 04:41 AM
#321
Also, the altitude rule is crystal-clear: "Fly below 400 feet".
01-12-2016, 04:43 AM
#322
01-12-2016, 04:47 AM
#323
It says you are acknowledging that there is a guideline. Says nothing about flying above 400 feet. The FAA even admitted it is a guideline, not regulations.
01-12-2016, 04:51 AM
#324
The following from the NPRM, soon to be law, should be noted:
IV. Examples of Regulations That Apply to Model Aircraft
The FAA could apply several regulations in part 91 when determining whether to take enforcement action against a model aircraft operator for endangering the NAS. The FAA’s general operating and flight rules are housed in part 91 of the FAA’s regulations. These rules are the baseline rules that apply to all aircraft operated in the United States with limited exceptions,
[SUP]14 and are the appropriate rules to apply when evaluating model aircraft operations. See 14 CFR 91.1. [/SUP]
[SUP]Rules relevant to these operations fall generally into three categories: (1) how the aircraft is operated; (2) operating rules for designated airspace; and, (3) special restrictions such as temporary flight restrictions (TFRs) and notices to airmen (NOTAMs). These rules are discussed in greater detail below. [/SUP]
[SUP]Rules addressing operation of the aircraft may include prohibitions on careless or reckless operation and dropping objects so as to create a hazard to persons or property. See 14 CFR 91.13 through 91.15. Additionally, § 91.113 establishes right-of-way rules for converging aircraft.[/SUP]
[SUP]15 [/SUP]
[SUP]Model aircraft that do not comply with those rules could be subject to FAA enforcement action.
And the following, from AC 91-57:
[/SUP]
e.Model aircraft operators should follow best practices including limiting operations to 400 feet above ground level (AGL).
Therefore, if you are observed to have exceeded 400AGL, you are considered to represent an endangerment to the NAS and are subject to enforcement action. Especially after you have certified you would limit operations to 400AGL in the process of registering yourself as a UAS operator (you have acknowledged the requirements on the FAA website). So, my view is that even though my piece of paper says "guideline" I remain fully at risk of being prosecuted for NAS endangerment if I am observed to have exceeded it.
IV. Examples of Regulations That Apply to Model Aircraft
The FAA could apply several regulations in part 91 when determining whether to take enforcement action against a model aircraft operator for endangering the NAS. The FAA’s general operating and flight rules are housed in part 91 of the FAA’s regulations. These rules are the baseline rules that apply to all aircraft operated in the United States with limited exceptions,
[SUP]14 and are the appropriate rules to apply when evaluating model aircraft operations. See 14 CFR 91.1. [/SUP]
[SUP]Rules relevant to these operations fall generally into three categories: (1) how the aircraft is operated; (2) operating rules for designated airspace; and, (3) special restrictions such as temporary flight restrictions (TFRs) and notices to airmen (NOTAMs). These rules are discussed in greater detail below. [/SUP]
[SUP]Rules addressing operation of the aircraft may include prohibitions on careless or reckless operation and dropping objects so as to create a hazard to persons or property. See 14 CFR 91.13 through 91.15. Additionally, § 91.113 establishes right-of-way rules for converging aircraft.[/SUP]
[SUP]15 [/SUP]
[SUP]Model aircraft that do not comply with those rules could be subject to FAA enforcement action.
And the following, from AC 91-57:
[/SUP]
e.Model aircraft operators should follow best practices including limiting operations to 400 feet above ground level (AGL).
Therefore, if you are observed to have exceeded 400AGL, you are considered to represent an endangerment to the NAS and are subject to enforcement action. Especially after you have certified you would limit operations to 400AGL in the process of registering yourself as a UAS operator (you have acknowledged the requirements on the FAA website). So, my view is that even though my piece of paper says "guideline" I remain fully at risk of being prosecuted for NAS endangerment if I am observed to have exceeded it.
01-12-2016, 08:52 AM
#325
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This is what the FAA is really concerned about. He just got it and doesn't know how it works but flies it until its gone!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4refzhmxks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4refzhmxks
