rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Back in 2014, the FAA said that flying within 5 miles of an airport required permission from the airport operator and/or control tower. You can see that reported in several places like this:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nation...623-story.html

http://thehill.com/regulation/210436...-near-airports

To quote one of the articles:

"Effective immediately, the aviation administration says model-aircraft operators flying within five miles of an airport must ask the airport and its control tower for permission to fly, according to its notice."

This was initially in the FAA's "interpretive rule", but the FAA document pointed to by the quote in the article above has been removed from the FAA site - reflecting their change to the language of section 336 back to "notification" vs. "permission".

Several of the AMA Government relations posts back at that time also noted, (and objected to) the use of the word "permission".

Bob

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Why in the world would any Sane Pilotwant to fly around the local area at 500' AGL (Where they know there are R/C fields are located or at least should. along with a myriad of other hazards to aerial navigation. You have to be a real Idiot to go cross country at 500'AGL for many reasons the least being an engine failure where U have about 37.5 seconds to realize U have an engine failure find a safe place and execute a forced survivable off air port landing. Just because U can fly at 500' doesn't make it right to operate a Certified aircraft at that altitude for any reason other for T.O. & Landing. If U are doing it to stay VFR U should Kill Yourself to get U out of the gene Pool. Just don't take anyone with U.
As an after note Being at our R/C field In a higher than normal air traffic area I saw one air plane ( a primary trainer) Long wings T-tail Rotax motor fly directly right over our field. I'd bet it is one of the planes from this certain flight school at Falcon Field where Pilots have been told to report anything they see no mater what as a NEAR MISS.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

In the 5 clubs to which I pay annual Dues, even in the 20 member club, there are at least two full scale pilots or former pilots. The Arizona club, out of 279 members, I can think of at least a dozen or more active and/or retired pilots.

What is Possible is that the after AMA Charter Club Search http://AMA Charter Club Search is completed, all field should be displayed at their Correct location on a Google map or sectional or any map pertinent to field location. If U can accomplish this for Restaurants gas stations or anything with in a certain radius the AMA can easily accomplish such a display of the data base. All U need is the CORRECT GPS coordinates for all the Fields the AMA has already in their DATA BASE. There U GO something Useful for the Price of your AMA Dues. Bet it's no where near a Million to accomplish.

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

As far as enforcement, the local police are the initial investigator.
The FAA sent letter to police departments explaining the regulation and expressing to the they don't have the manpower for enforcement and want the local police to help them in enforcement.
A modeler was flying a heli just south of the Quakertown field when a cop stopped him demanding he show his FAA registration certificate. The modeler explained that he had until Feb 19 to register, and I guess the cop checked and went on his way, maybe solving some real crime.
Jon

franklin_m

I will agree that AMA does not make it easy to find safety related information for club fields. While the clubs should be responsible for gathering and keeping the information current, AMA could drive improvement in safety culture (and situational awareness) by holding clubs accountable to gather and keep this information.

franklin_m

First, AG aircraft cannot effectively do their work above 500' AGL. Second, military aircraft have combat readiness requirements for proficiency in high speed low altitude terrain following flight, to include combat maneuvering at low altitudes and weapon delivery. Many VR routes allow flight to lower than 500' AGL, some much lower.

Helicopters frequently operate at 500' SVFR for any number of good operational reasons.

mackeyjones

Military aircraft operating as you suggest are operating in very specific area's, generally well away from area's that an AMA registered R/C pilot is likely to be using..

An AG pilot is more likely to run into an immovable object if he is that dimwitted that he doesn't know the area he is operating over.

This is all aside from the fact that R/C Pilots flying at an R/C Model Field are not deaf, blind dimwits who are going to intentionally fly their Model into the path of an Aircraft. Most Aircraft flying as you suggest are heard well before any danger occurs.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

I/m not speaking or any of the above ... Again I'm speaking of the GA Jet Jockey that endangers his passengers people on the ground and his plane. Just because the regs allow some one to fly at 500' AGL doesn't mean it should be done. U can not even enter a uncontrolled Pattern at 500' why ever fly below Pattern altitude. U Know because they PPP Piss Poor PIlots have a death wish and are thrill seekers.

______________True story about the Jet Jockey type ______
Had a Guy we called LOOPER, He owned a C-140 ... While he Owned it it was the greatest cleanest best airplane in Wisconsin. After he sold It it was just a Peice of crap and he really Screwed the guy that bought it. Well Looper bought him self an RV-4. U got it, Got a grate deal and it was the best airplane in 5 states.

Looper started doing aerobatics above abov the air port and doing High Speed passes down the N-S runway full bore. On the Approach end of 36 was a tree line with a 100 foot opening in the tree line that U had to pass through to land a full scale to the North. When aircraft did a normal left hand pattern we would sight them well before they reached the airport and our R/C field. Old Looper Liked to "Buzz the field a couple of times before he would set up for a normal landing. Well there was about 3/8 of a mile of open farm fields to the south end of 36 and Old looper would come straight in low across the open field behind the Tree line so we didn't see him till he broke through the tree line at a 140 mph just 600 feet from where we were flying right across his path. The moral here is when one of the other Full scale Pilots told looper one sunday morning "Ya know LOOPER your going to come through that tree line some day and reck one of them Perfectly good Model airplanes. Shortly after that he quit showing up for the Sunday morning Breakfast flights. Good Riddance. This is the Field and there used to be a 1200' long east to west tree line at the south end of RW 8-36. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Oc...2f7545fd?hl=en

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Everywhere I did low level military ops was in a warning area well free of anything but the occasional tall cactus.

franklin_m

I differ. AMA registered pilots do not fly at just AMA fields.

Just on the subject of MTRs, I just downloaded the publication that defines the US VR, IR, and SR routes in the US. roughly 495 pages of them (https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/tw4/vt27/docs/ap1b.pdf). Having flown many myself in the 20 years I was on active duty, I can say that there's one that starts at the Astoria Washington bridge (hardly a remote area), another that flies down the Columbia river gorge past many camping areas, boat launches, etc. (hardly remote areas), another that flies through Lake Chelan in eastern Washington, again past and over camping areas, boat launches, etc. (remote areas). On the east coast, they're all over Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama. While we have to avoid charted airfields, we frequently fly over or near small towns, over farms, etc.

AMA only recently identified and confirmed all of their fields near full scale airfields, what do you think the odds are that for each of their fields, they went through this entire publication, charted the route widths, and checked? About zero. Many general aviation, who have regular proficiency tests, aren't aware of MTRs, so I don't have a lot of confidence that AMA members are more aware of them then GA pilots.

As for the AG pilots, again, AMA members are not required to fly only from AMA fields, so there's no guarantee they won't take a plane out and fly over farm fields.

Lastly, as for hearing, I watched an AMA member, and major retailer sponsored pilot fly his entire flight wearing headphones and listening to music. Exactly how is he to hear the approach of an aircraft? Secondly, have you ever seen the Blue Angels/Thunderbirds show? They do a demonstration how a subsonic airplane can sneak up on you at low altitude. Audible warning time is seconds - think about an AMA member flying his plane while camping out along one of those MTRs I described - hardly enough for a pilot to get a plane out of the way

Lastly, there's no hearing test required of AMA members, thus no guarantee they can indeed hear. Even those who can, there's other airplanes in the pits running up engines - easily louder than an airplane approaching at low altitude and high speed. There may be other activities that result in something called "cognitive distraction" - example is people doing two things...reading a text and walking...right into a fountain. Are you saying a casual AMA member, struggling with a slightly unstable new airplane, with noise in the nearby pits, or other aircraft in flight is going to have the situational awareness? I argue unlikely.

franklin_m

Perhaps. My experience is on VR/IR routes all over the country. While I'll admit we're not flying over major cities, it's common to fly quite close to small towns and villages, and often directly over farms, near individual homes, etc.

franklin_m

Copy all. I went searching on the web and in about 5 minutes of searching, found video from cockpit showing one of these waiver holders flying over occupied buildings, over roads with cars, etc. And of course there's any number of them in these pages joking about never exceeding 199.99999MPH. There's a reason the AMA has a radar gun they offer to CDs. There's a reason well respected guys like BV are writing to members asking them to not violate the rules. If it wasn't happening, he wouldn't write those letters.

Even discussions of recommending flight below 400' but tolerating it above that when "necessary" and when "safe." We've already seen from these videos there is not a consistent level of risk tolerance, and I'd argue what is "necessary" to one is not "necessary" to others. If there was to be some more precise definitions in this respect, my comfort level would go up.

But I'm not comfortable letting someone who jokes about the speed limit being the one who decides what's "safe" and what's not.

Sport_Pilot

How in the world can you tell from a video looking straight out if the model was flying over buildings or people? You don't know the angle of the lens, most building would be well away from the model when underneath and well away when it disappears below the fuse or bottom of the screen. Unless the camera is pointing straight down or have a video from the building it overflew; you just can't tell!

I have seen your comments from other video's where it looked to me to be well away from the building but you claimed it was overflying the building, so I question your judgment on that. If you have a video where the pilot/operator is implying he is breaking the rules, then why don't you post it here?

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

[h=1]Say hello to the AirMule, an unmanned aircraft that can carry a half-ton payload[/h]http://news.yahoo.com/hello-airmule-...000710721.html

franklin_m

22 years looking out the front of aircraft and mentally projecting a flight path on the ground, all in aircraft that do not have a camera pointed straight down. Secondly, it's also rather easy to see that you have in fact crossed a road when you see it in front of the aircraft nose, disappear below it, and then see it again in front of the nose from the other side of the road.

And the video wasn't posted here...it was on youtube...shot in the US.

Sport_Pilot

I don't care how many year's you have, you have no idea what the field of view of the camera is. You are not looking with your own eyes so your experience looking out a canopy with your own eye's means squat.

franklin_m

Aren't you the guy who says a several pound "model" hitting an airplane doesn't represent a safety of flight risk? I think you said something about that...I remember posting photos showing you how smaller birds did major damage, even going through the windshields of helicopters.

Sport_Pilot

Not one of those brought the plane down. The damage is small and too rare to make mountains of molehills and you apparently like to do. Only helicopters doing police or emergency work; have permission to land on the property below, have a waiver to crop dust or inspect lines, or in an emergency landing, should be below 1000 feet around most model field's or any other assembly of people. It is rare to see even a helicopter at 500 feet. Silly discussion if you ask me.

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

For models over 55 pounds, the other shoe has come down-hard.



HI Gang,

I have some bad news. Just finished with a telecom with Washington.

Concerning the over 55 lb. models, what Washington told me back in the beginning of December has now been changed. Anyone with a model over 55 lbs. (whether it’s certified under AMA’s LMA -1 or -2 program or not) must now receive an “N” number and be registered with the 3 part carbon paper system just like any other homebuilt aircraft. Go to FAA.Gov to sign-up and receive an “N” number (you can request a specific number if its available). Once you receive the “N” number from the FAA, you must fill out an FAA Form 8050-1. This form is only available from your local FAA, some airports or EAA members might have them. This will cost $5 no matter when you sign-up. You will have to fill in the Make/Model and Serial Number area. For the Make: you are the manufacturer, so use your last name. For the Model, you can put whatever you like – if you have a scale aircraft you can list it as: Pitts S1, P-51D, T-34B, Jenny, etc. For the Serial Number you can make up anything you want. An example of a Make /Model/Serial Number would be: Tiano P-47, S/N: FT-1. You have until Feb. 19, 2016 to file if you have an aircraft currently flying (or it must be registered before you fly it again after that).

You must also provide a bill of sale statement. If you do not have any receipt, especially if you built from a kit or your own plans, you have to submit a notarized statement that there is no bill of sale.

You must also provide that the aircraft was not registered in another country. You can add this statement to the bill of sale statement.

And again, this is only for US residents.

The “N” number can be placed on the aircraft like the FAA ID # on your smaller models – any size, anywhere as long as it can be seen by the naked eye and accessed without the use of any tools.

Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news but that’s the way it is. They know all about the Rule that was passed back in 2012 about exempting AMA members from further regulations. They are using the part of the rule that states: “if the FAA deems there is a safety risk to the NAS, then they can do whatever they want.” The AMA is still working on the registration issue but it will take quite some time before the FAA gives up its power.

Sport_Pilot

I do not plan to build a large model but this sounds the same as with a homebuilt. How will the FAA know it is a radio control model and not a 3/4 scale homebuilt with people inside?

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Yes, I read that post in FB but until it comes from the FAA in the form of a FAR I'll consider it suspect.

The current FAR says over 55 pound ok with LMA inspection.

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Yes, I have seen the same communication, but until it officially comes from the FAA through the AMA that I am required to do this, I am not going to rush out to go through that process. If the AMA comes out and says that we need to I will (that is, if my ME-262 comes out over 55 lbs - I don't know for sure if it will, it may be just under that...).

If we do need to comply, I will, of course, but it seems silly to me. As I said before, there are all of 120 LMA "permits to fly" in the AMA right now, and I fail to see how adding an "N" number to 120 aircraft - which are already identified by our name and AMA number, as required by the AMA safety code, is going to increase the safety of the NAS. My under 55 lb models are OK with just my name and AMA number inside (I do carry my FAA registration certificate with me, as required), and my LTMA aircraft is already inspected to a much higher safety standard than those, so how is adding an "N" number making it better or safer? It seems as if adding the "N" number is just wasting the time of the FAA personnel that have to process my "N" number registration paperwork.

Bob

junkjet

My Feedback: (55)

On the 1st page of the FAA registration sight it stated if you fly over 55lbs you must do paper registration.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Are Ashes considered People? My Father always wanted a ride in a B-17? If registered as a home built it is legal BLOS and above 400'. How much added weight will my 1/3 scale cub carry? Can it make experimental at 55 lbs? I suppose if U buy a scratch over 65 lbs U have to have an AI do an annual inspection or the builder do one. Then U have to have Xponder Air Speed indicator, Oil Pressure gage for each engine Compass turn and bank

O Heck here is the FAR pertaining to Your Over 55 lb experimental.



[h=3][/h][HR][/HR][h=2]§91.205 Powered civil aircraft with standard category U.S. airworthiness certificates: Instrument and equipment requirements.[/h](a) General. Except as provided in paragraphs (c)(3) and (e) of this section, no person may operate a powered civil aircraft with a standard category U.S. airworthiness certificate in any operation described in paragraphs (b) through (f) of this section unless that aircraft contains the instruments and equipment specified in those paragraphs (or FAA-approved equivalents) for that type of operation, and those instruments and items of equipment are in operable condition.
(b) Visual-flight rules (day). For VFR flight during the day, the following instruments and equipment are required:
(1) Airspeed indicator.
(2) Altimeter.
(3) Magnetic direction indicator.
(4) Tachometer for each engine.
(5) Oil pressure gauge for each engine using pressure system.
(6) Temperature gauge for each liquid-cooled engine.
(7) Oil temperature gauge for each air-cooled engine.
(8) Manifold pressure gauge for each altitude engine.
(9) Fuel gauge indicating the quantity of fuel in each tank.
(10) Landing gear position indicator, if the aircraft has a retractable landing gear.
(11) For small civil airplanes certificated after March 11, 1996, in accordance with part 23 of this chapter, an approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system. In the event of failure of any light of the anticollision light system, operation of the aircraft may continue to a location where repairs or replacement can be made.
(12) If the aircraft is operated for hire over water and beyond power-off gliding distance from shore, approved flotation gear readily available to each occupant and, unless the aircraft is operating under part 121 of this subchapter, at least one pyrotechnic signaling device. As used in this section, “shore” means that area of the land adjacent to the water which is above the high water mark and excludes land areas which are intermittently under water.
(13) An approved safety belt with an approved metal-to-metal latching device for each occupant 2 years of age or older.
(14) For small civil airplanes manufactured after July 18, 1978, an approved shoulder harness for each front seat. The shoulder harness must be designed to protect the occupant from serious head injury when the occupant experiences the ultimate inertia forces specified in §23.561(b)(2) of this chapter. Each shoulder harness installed at a flight crewmember station must permit the crewmember, when seated and with the safety belt and shoulder harness fastened, to perform all functions necessary for flight operations. For purposes of this paragraph—
(i) The date of manufacture of an airplane is the date the inspection acceptance records reflect that the airplane is complete and meets the FAA-approved type design data; and
(ii) A front seat is a seat located at a flight crewmember station or any seat located alongside such a seat.
(15) An emergency locator transmitter, if required by §91.207.
(16) For normal, utility, and acrobatic category airplanes with a seating configuration, excluding pilot seats, of 9 or less, manufactured after December 12, 1986, a shoulder harness for—
(i) Each front seat that meets the requirements of §23.785 (g) and (h) of this chapter in effect on December 12, 1985;
(ii) Each additional seat that meets the requirements of §23.785(g) of this chapter in effect on December 12, 1985.
(17) For rotorcraft manufactured after September 16, 1992, a shoulder harness for each seat that meets the requirements of §27.2 or §29.2 of this chapter in effect on September 16, 1991.
(c) Visual flight rules (night). For VFR flight at night, the following instruments and equipment are required:
(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section.
(2) Approved position lights.
(3) An approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system on all U.S.-registered civil aircraft. Anticollision light systems initially installed after August 11, 1971, on aircraft for which a type certificate was issued or applied for before August 11, 1971, must at least meet the anticollision light standards of part 23, 25, 27, or 29 of this chapter, as applicable, that were in effect on August 10, 1971, except that the color may be either aviation red or aviation white. In the event of failure of any light of the anticollision light system, operations with the aircraft may be continued to a stop where repairs or replacement can be made.
(4) If the aircraft is operated for hire, one electric landing light.
(5) An adequate source of electrical energy for all installed electrical and radio equipment.
(6) One spare set of fuses, or three spare fuses of each kind required, that are accessible to the pilot in flight.
(d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments and equipment are required:
(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section, and, for night flight, instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (c) of this section.
(2) Two-way radio communication and navigation equipment suitable for the route to be flown.
(3) Gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, except on the following aircraft:
(i) Airplanes with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of 360 degrees of pitch and roll and installed in accordance with the instrument requirements prescribed in §121.305(j) of this chapter; and
(ii) Rotorcraft with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of ±80 degrees of pitch and ±120 degrees of roll and installed in accordance with §29.1303(g) of this chapter.
(4) Slip-skid indicator.
(5) Sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure.
(6) A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation.
(7) Generator or alternator of adequate capacity.
(8) Gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon).
(9) Gyroscopic direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent).
(e) Flight at and above 24,000 feet MSL (FL 240). If VOR navigation equipment is required under paragraph (d)(2) of this section, no person may operate a U.S.-registered civil aircraft within the 50 states and the District of Columbia at or above FL 240 unless that aircraft is equipped with approved DME or a suitable RNAV system. When the DME or RNAV system required by this paragraph fails at and above FL 240, the pilot in command of the aircraft must notify ATC immediately, and then may continue operations at and above FL 240 to the next airport of intended landing where repairs or replacement of the equipment can be made.
(f) Category II operations. The requirements for Category II operations are the instruments and equipment specified in—
(1) Paragraph (d) of this section; and
(2) Appendix A to this part.
(g) Category III operations. The instruments and equipment required for Category III operations are specified in paragraph (d) of this section.
(h) Night vision goggle operations. For night vision goggle operations, the following instruments and equipment must be installed in the aircraft, functioning in a normal manner, and approved for use by the FAA:
(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section, instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (c) of this section;
(2) Night vision goggles;
(3) Interior and exterior aircraft lighting system required for night vision goggle operations;
(4) Two-way radio communications system;
(5) Gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon);
(6) Generator or alternator of adequate capacity for the required instruments and equipment; and
(7) Radar altimeter.
(i) Exclusions. Paragraphs (f) and (g) of this section do not apply to operations conducted by a holder of a certificate issued under part 121 or part 135 of this chapter.
[Doc. No. 18334, 54 FR 34292, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91-220, 55 FR 43310, Oct. 26, 1990; Amdt. 91-223, 56 FR 41052, Aug. 16, 1991; Amdt. 91-231, 57 FR 42672, Sept. 15, 1992; Amdt. 91-248, 61 FR 5171, Feb. 9, 1996; Amdt. 91-251, 61 FR 34560, July 2, 1996; Amdt. 91-285, 69 FR 77599, Dec. 27, 2004; Amdt. 91-296, 72 FR 31679, June 7, 2007; Amdt. 91-309, 74 FR 42563, Aug. 21, 2009]

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Current guidance from the AMA is that AMA members in the LMA/LTMA program (i.e., model aircraft over 55 lbs) do not have to register. When and if that guidance from the AMA changes, I will do the paper registration - of course that's if I need to because my model may come out under 55 lbs wet...

Bob