Advice Needed: How to survive a flameout in a Skymaster A-10
12-22-2015, 06:30 PM
#51
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one last thing you can try have you ever blow threw a fuel line straight threw it know bend it a little you will get drag know bend it more you get the point more drag if you can use straight lines turn uats backwords lines not moving in flight
12-22-2015, 09:13 PM
#54
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12-22-2015, 10:11 PM
#55
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No!!!
The suction drag would be too high and create cavitation. Have a look at this article:
http://www.ultimate-jets.net/blogs/f...ing-cavitation
The suction drag would be too high and create cavitation. Have a look at this article:
http://www.ultimate-jets.net/blogs/f...ing-cavitation
On two separate flights on my SM Mig -29 I had to make a dead stick landing. Very stressful. Both incidents were after about 20 seconds at full power in a 200 size motor. I opened it all up and ran the fuel pump at what would have been the setting for full power.
https://youtu.be/Ad4CZ86k5gA
You can see the sides of the UAT are dished in and the fuel looks like it is boiling (cavitation). I was pulling close to 22" of vacuum!
There were no leaks in this system. It would hold 3 psi pressure overnight.
The real culprit I think were the felt clunks in the saddle tanks. I got rid of those (and changed the UAT to a different style). The problem went away.
I'm sure on a smaller motor those clunks would have been ok. A lot of guys use them and have no problems. Everything looked fine at 1/2 power setting.
SteveK
Last edited by stevekott; 12-22-2015 at 10:23 PM.
12-24-2015, 10:58 PM
#56
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I was discussing A10 case with dbud a few days ago and I suggested that perhaps a few degrees of toe Out on the engines, plus a couple of degrees of down thrust (turbines noses up in this case) may have helped him in this case. This is of course assuming that the angle of attack of the wings and the stabs were properly designed/built by the factory and checked by the builder. The trim of the aircraft after first few flights "may" indicate any problems with wing/stab/engine incidence.
It is very strange that this A10 behaved as described with a single engine failure.
Many suggestions in this thread also could have helped dbud to land safely.
Well, you have another one, so build it and you can do single engine testing at high altitude
It is very strange that this A10 behaved as described with a single engine failure.
Many suggestions in this thread also could have helped dbud to land safely.
Well, you have another one, so build it and you can do single engine testing at high altitude
Last edited by SamEhab; 12-24-2015 at 11:00 PM.
12-25-2015, 12:06 AM
#57
I was discussing A10 case with dbud a few days ago and I suggested that perhaps a few degrees of toe Out on the engines, plus a couple of degrees of down thrust (turbines noses up in this case) may have helped him in this case. This is of course assuming that the angle of attack of the wings and the stabs were properly designed/built by the factory and checked by the builder. The trim of the aircraft after first few flights "may" indicate any problems with wing/stab/engine incidence.
It is very strange that this A10 behaved as described with a single engine failure.
Many suggestions in this thread also could have helped dbud to land safely.
Well, you have another one, so build it and you can do single engine testing at high altitude
It is very strange that this A10 behaved as described with a single engine failure.
Many suggestions in this thread also could have helped dbud to land safely.
Well, you have another one, so build it and you can do single engine testing at high altitude
12-25-2015, 12:36 AM
#58
LOL, sorry lads I've got to laugh, this is the difference between theory and practice, you can't measure your way out of this problem with an A10! My A10 has 15degrees of positive incidence on the tail plane and 20degrees of up thrust on the engines, this is just not a normal aircraft. Tow in would be a good idea but I don't see how, without re-designing the nacelles you could get enough to make a difference.
As I think I have said and demonstrated this is less of a problem than folks are making out. I think in these modern times it is essential to make use of available telemetry then you will know instantly which engine is going to give you difficulty, then follow known rules to maintain your aircraft within manageable bounds.
Dantly, I have considerable experience flying the SM A10 I can without doubt help you towards success with yours please ask. This is a very easy model to fly if it's set up properly use a three axis gyro use the decelerons for some aspects of flight particularly the landings they DO work. As you may have gathered, I lost mine but I soon replaced it, it is without doubt the most satisfying model I have owned.................Happy days.
m
As I think I have said and demonstrated this is less of a problem than folks are making out. I think in these modern times it is essential to make use of available telemetry then you will know instantly which engine is going to give you difficulty, then follow known rules to maintain your aircraft within manageable bounds.
Dantly, I have considerable experience flying the SM A10 I can without doubt help you towards success with yours please ask. This is a very easy model to fly if it's set up properly use a three axis gyro use the decelerons for some aspects of flight particularly the landings they DO work. As you may have gathered, I lost mine but I soon replaced it, it is without doubt the most satisfying model I have owned.................Happy days.
m
12-25-2015, 08:48 AM
#59
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Edited: I meant to say Toe out for planes with engines in Front of the center of lift, ie 747, 777,etc.
Toe in for the A-10, so sorry I got it backwards, little rusty after 6 years no flying model jets.
I'll correct my initial posts...
Toe in for the A-10, so sorry I got it backwards, little rusty after 6 years no flying model jets.
I'll correct my initial posts...
Last edited by Ehab; 12-26-2015 at 11:32 AM.
12-26-2015, 01:18 AM
#60
I had an experienced the flameout in my maiden flight., I used the full power for the kept the normal flight but the A-10 unstable, when I used 1/2 power by single turbine , the A-10 was very stable, if you find an engine flameout please do not use the full power this will make the A-10 stable to landing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDbVa0jeAls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDbVa0jeAls
12-26-2015, 01:34 AM
#61
Thread Starter
Thanks for responding Anton. I think I made the mistake of going to idle and got the plane too slow.
Mick, I will consult you on A-10 MK2. My first A-10 was a pleasure to fly.
Mick, I will consult you on A-10 MK2. My first A-10 was a pleasure to fly.
12-26-2015, 07:01 AM
#62
ummm....well......you only meant that if you wanted to make the yaw worse, which I'm certain is not your intent. Toe out means that the front of the engines are aimed outward. This will increase the yaw should an engine fail. Example: left engine fails, right engine still running, nose of the running engine toed out to the right, eflux of that engine blowing to the left and acting like left rudder, turning someone's A-10 into an expensive pinwheel.
Now then, if you were talking about an airplane with engines mounted forward of the CG you'd be correct, but that would be a different thread ;-)
Now then, if you were talking about an airplane with engines mounted forward of the CG you'd be correct, but that would be a different thread ;-)
12-26-2015, 12:31 PM
#65
There is an easy solution to engine out in the A-10...don't get slow, boot some rudder into the operating engine and don't land full flaps.
Its easy to figure out which engine has failed...which ever way you have to correct the roll with aileron...add rudder too...bingo...problem solved. Also, practice engine outs on realflight until it become natural. I have have engine failures on rotation with the Ziroli C-47, Tomahawk F-5, Big Fei Bao F-15, Big FEJ F-18F, BVM TwinCat and the MB A-10...all of these jets being twins and none having gyros on any control surface.
Whenever I am going to fly a twin turbine (or gasser) aircraft, just prior to takeoff I mentally think out what I am going to do incase one engine pukes (just like we do in full scale) so if and when it does it's not a surprise and I can just go through the motions of what I had preplanned.
I seem to remember Pablo a few years ago having an engine flame out at Top Gun with a MB A-10 after he took off. He completed his flight sequence single engine and then landed no problem.
It's easy to do if you are prepared for it and have the necessary skills in your kitbag so practice up and rely on your flight skills primarily and then maybe gyros as a backup...not the other way around IMO.
Beave
Its easy to figure out which engine has failed...which ever way you have to correct the roll with aileron...add rudder too...bingo...problem solved. Also, practice engine outs on realflight until it become natural. I have have engine failures on rotation with the Ziroli C-47, Tomahawk F-5, Big Fei Bao F-15, Big FEJ F-18F, BVM TwinCat and the MB A-10...all of these jets being twins and none having gyros on any control surface.
Whenever I am going to fly a twin turbine (or gasser) aircraft, just prior to takeoff I mentally think out what I am going to do incase one engine pukes (just like we do in full scale) so if and when it does it's not a surprise and I can just go through the motions of what I had preplanned.
I seem to remember Pablo a few years ago having an engine flame out at Top Gun with a MB A-10 after he took off. He completed his flight sequence single engine and then landed no problem.
It's easy to do if you are prepared for it and have the necessary skills in your kitbag so practice up and rely on your flight skills primarily and then maybe gyros as a backup...not the other way around IMO.
Beave
12-26-2015, 01:52 PM
#66
Thread Starter
There is an easy solution to engine out in the A-10...don't get slow, boot some rudder into the operating engine and don't land full flaps.
Its easy to figure out which engine has failed...which ever way you have to correct the roll with aileron...add rudder too...bingo...problem solved. Also, practice engine outs on realflight until it become natural. I have have engine failures on rotation with the Ziroli C-47, Tomahawk F-5, Big Fei Bao F-15, Big FEJ F-18F, BVM TwinCat and the MB A-10...all of these jets being twins and none having gyros on any control surface.
Whenever I am going to fly a twin turbine (or gasser) aircraft, just prior to takeoff I mentally think out what I am going to do incase one engine pukes (just like we do in full scale) so if and when it does it's not a surprise and I can just go through the motions of what I had preplanned.
I seem to remember Pablo a few years ago having an engine flame out at Top Gun with a MB A-10 after he took off. He completed his flight sequence single engine and then landed no problem.
It's easy to do if you are prepared for it and have the necessary skills in your kitbag so practice up and rely on your flight skills primarily and then maybe gyros as a backup...not the other way around IMO.
Beave
Its easy to figure out which engine has failed...which ever way you have to correct the roll with aileron...add rudder too...bingo...problem solved. Also, practice engine outs on realflight until it become natural. I have have engine failures on rotation with the Ziroli C-47, Tomahawk F-5, Big Fei Bao F-15, Big FEJ F-18F, BVM TwinCat and the MB A-10...all of these jets being twins and none having gyros on any control surface.
Whenever I am going to fly a twin turbine (or gasser) aircraft, just prior to takeoff I mentally think out what I am going to do incase one engine pukes (just like we do in full scale) so if and when it does it's not a surprise and I can just go through the motions of what I had preplanned.
I seem to remember Pablo a few years ago having an engine flame out at Top Gun with a MB A-10 after he took off. He completed his flight sequence single engine and then landed no problem.
It's easy to do if you are prepared for it and have the necessary skills in your kitbag so practice up and rely on your flight skills primarily and then maybe gyros as a backup...not the other way around IMO.
Beave
12-26-2015, 03:41 PM
#69
Dantley,
Load up the B-25 and then other multi engine props in Real flight, give Lil D the keyboard and show him the letter K. Tell him after you takeoff, hit K one time. It's a random engine failure (L or R) when pressed. Get good with the 25 then switch to 4 engine planes. Have him kill one, two then 3 engines. After a while you will get real good at milking around a 4 engine bomber with 3 engines out.
Repeat repeat repeat until you can do it without thinking about it...it's great practice. It also teaches you how to maintain controlled flight with the sticks buried in different corners.
That's what worked for me anyway...
Boli
Load up the B-25 and then other multi engine props in Real flight, give Lil D the keyboard and show him the letter K. Tell him after you takeoff, hit K one time. It's a random engine failure (L or R) when pressed. Get good with the 25 then switch to 4 engine planes. Have him kill one, two then 3 engines. After a while you will get real good at milking around a 4 engine bomber with 3 engines out.
Repeat repeat repeat until you can do it without thinking about it...it's great practice. It also teaches you how to maintain controlled flight with the sticks buried in different corners.
That's what worked for me anyway...
Boli
12-31-2015, 01:15 PM
#71
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Logged over 900 flights on my Mibo before I sold it to Ron L. a couple years back.
Out of all those flights, I recorded at least 35 engine outs .
Very uneventful.
The plane will let you know when you loose a motor, then it should be flown accordingly.
Billy
Out of all those flights, I recorded at least 35 engine outs .
Very uneventful.
The plane will let you know when you loose a motor, then it should be flown accordingly.
Billy
12-31-2015, 05:00 PM
#72
Once you determine which engine is failed, say "Right engine fail LEFT rudder" or LEFT engine fail, Right rudder. works on big planes and models both..
put flap in late, landing assured, use half flap. this basically applies to most twins. min power
Of course determining which engine isn't always easy, unless you have telemetry
put flap in late, landing assured, use half flap. this basically applies to most twins. min power
Of course determining which engine isn't always easy, unless you have telemetry
12-31-2015, 05:05 PM
#73
Thread Starter
Dantley,
Load up the B-25 and then other multi engine props in Real flight, give Lil D the keyboard and show him the letter K. Tell him after you takeoff, hit K one time. It's a random engine failure (L or R) when pressed. Get good with the 25 then switch to 4 engine planes. Have him kill one, two then 3 engines. After a while you will get real good at milking around a 4 engine bomber with 3 engines out.
Repeat repeat repeat until you can do it without thinking about it...it's great practice. It also teaches you how to maintain controlled flight with the sticks buried in different corners.
That's what worked for me anyway...
Boli
Load up the B-25 and then other multi engine props in Real flight, give Lil D the keyboard and show him the letter K. Tell him after you takeoff, hit K one time. It's a random engine failure (L or R) when pressed. Get good with the 25 then switch to 4 engine planes. Have him kill one, two then 3 engines. After a while you will get real good at milking around a 4 engine bomber with 3 engines out.
Repeat repeat repeat until you can do it without thinking about it...it's great practice. It also teaches you how to maintain controlled flight with the sticks buried in different corners.
That's what worked for me anyway...
Boli
