Eaglepilot2

Hi Guys, I need some opinions on a purchase situation I have. I have an opportunity to purchase a used (but zero time since serviced) JC Rabbit 100 SP or I can buy a Kingtech 100 (brand new from Kingtech) for practically the same price. The Rabbit has 24# of thrust compared to 22# for the Kingtech. I need some advice from some of you more experienced with these two engines. Both engines and companies have very good reputations. Is the smaller, lighter and slightly more powerful (but still used), Rabbit worth the same as the new Kingtech?
Need more experienced opinions please!

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

gunradd

My Feedback: (9)

It depends on your aircraft. What are you putting it in?

Also people are very biased so all the Kingtech guys will say Kingtech and JC guys will say JC.

More importantly is what aircraft both are good engines with life time warranty. For that engine class I would rather spend a little more and get the K120 since it will work with more airframes and has a CNC compressor that makes it very efficient.

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Does the rabbit include the lifetime warranty transfer in the price?

I would probably still buy the kingtech, as brand new for the same money is worth more to me than 2# more thrust.

bluescoobydoo

I would always go for a new turbine over a second hand one as all of the components will be new and come with a good warranty I don't own a kingtech as all of mine are wrens but I think kingtech have a good service dept in most country's

Eaglepilot2

Yes the warranty is transferrable. The Rabbit is less, but after the $250 transfer fee they're about the same price. Either going in a Avonds F-15 or possibly an Avonds F-16. Possibly even a Turbinator or Reaction. Just not sure which direction yet.
I'm leaning towards the new Kingtech for the same reasons mentioned. New over used most all the time.
Thanks guys,

DiscoWings

My Feedback: (76)

either will work, I would lean towards KT only because I have sent in my stuff to Barry and it was repaired promptly, also KT is in the u.s. where as for JC you have to send to mexico...

Dblex

My Feedback: (81)

I have learned a lot from this community of Jet guys, and so I feel the need to share some things that I was taught along the way.

1. New/Used? A factory serviced turbine is a good turbine. New your getting the new bling feel. Used/Serviced has been signed off from the factory and is just as good without the fresh paint feel. I am a KT guy, But I have seen the differences in both. Its your choice.
2. More Power is better...Yes it will fly with the 100, but if you get yourself in the bind, that little extra boost will help you out of trouble really quick....
3. Throttle Management, Throttle Management, Throttle Management. When I learned to fly turbines, essentially I was self taught with a little mentorship from another local turbine flyer and a ton of reading these forums to get there. Of course he was self taught as well and it wasn't unit I went and got my waiver that my life was really changed. Dieselman1220 walked me through just about everything I needed to know. Mind you I was on track, but he got me aligned with the do's/don'ts of turbine flying. He noticed a bad habit immediately that changed my world. As he was watching me fly he asked me if I always flew at full throttle? And of course I am thinking "its a jet" I aint gonna slow this thing down!!! And in reality I was doing myself more harm than good. Example? Flying a jet with a "moderate" sized engine will be enjoyable but at what expense? I was flying at potentially full throttle to 3/4 a majority of the time and enjoyed a safe 4-6 minutes of flying. When Dieselman1220 saw that he challenged me on the next flight to not fly over 1/2 throttle and see what happens... So I fueled her up and off I went. Cruised that whole flight at 1/2 throttle and landed at my normal timer setting. Checked my fuel status and I still had well over half a tank of fuel and in that moment, my mind was blown.

With a more powerful motor you will most likely fly at a lower power setting, conserve less fuel and always have the ability to get out of trouble if things get to pucker factors exceeding 7.0 Not to mention the wear and tear we can put on a turbine and its bearings flying wide open. It was definitely a great learning opportunity and I will never forget an experience like that. That is what makes these forums great to those of us willing to give feedback and help others.

I hope this helps you some!

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

I believe the new KT 120G is the same size as the 100 but it has 27lbs thrust. That motor would work for either of those two jets you mentioned and many more even larger / heavier jets.
Vin...

BlueBus320

My Feedback: (57)

I'd say K120 also. Don't forget the valves under the cover of the KT makes for an easier neater install also. Unless you're into the external mounted stuff.
Jay

jason

My Feedback: (1)

Eaglepilot2

if you do end up considering the K120 then you may also wish to consider the M140. It weighs the same as the K120 but also has another 20N plus the all important brushless pump and starter.

Jason

stevekott

+1 All good motors, great service.

Eaglepilot2

Wow guys, All very good points! I do like the internal valves. I had actually forgot about that. This engine has the power pack, so another piece of equipment to install. I suppose the RPM's are programmable for less thrust if I elected to go with the 120 correct? Is there a guideline for the amount if power you want vs. RPM's.
You guys are really being helpful in narrowing my choice!
Thanks!

BlueBus320

My Feedback: (57)

Yep, RPM is easily programmable on the Kingtechs. UPS delivered my K180G to the wrong address, & Barry from Kingtech sent out another before UPS even concluded their pseudo investigation, so needless to say, I am happy with the customer service. As far as the RPM that correlates to the thrust you are looking for, I am not sure how that would work with any of the brands. There are so many advancements with modern turbines, I think it is hard to get accumulative data for RPM-Thrust numbers that will remain for long. Also could depend on any thrust curves you have in. I have a stand with a scale on the front (easy enough to build), & I usually just mount the turbine on that, then read the lbs-of-thrust at full throttle etc. For pod & boom designs, I use the exact amount I'm looking for & for conventional internal/ss-pipe designs I'll add a lb or 2 for thrust loss. Hope this helps
Jay

Kim Couturier

My Feedback: (120)

King Tech all the way, Every one I've owned has been bullet proof. The 120 is the same size as the 100. Barry is awesome with service. I've got 3 100's, and they are a great motor. The only thing you need to remember is to turn off the fuel line valve after each flight, and turn it on when ready to start. Eliminates any chance of hot starts.....

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

Ill take a good proven engine with a good history over a new one ANY time.
That being said, either one will be significantly marginal for an Avonds F-15. You really need a 30# to wring it out. Its a big airframe. For the F-16, the K100 may be marginal, but the 24lb Rabbit should be fine. Most have flown on P-120 types.

On a sidenote, the Rabbit spins very fast. Its a great engine for small airframes to make them go incredibly fast. But for larger airframes youd be better off with a large can engine, such as the P-120 mentioned earlier.

David

Eaglepilot2

Thanks again guys! David, I agree it's on the lower end for power on the F-15, but Philip doesn't recommend much larger than about 24#. I know many have flown them with larger engines but I've been trying to keep it within his recommendation. I think I have decided to go with either the 120 or 140. You've all been very helpful and informative!
Merry Christmas!

RCISFUN

My Feedback: (44)

If you search the forms you will see pros and cons from any manufacturer.
Someone mentioned the solenoid valves under the front cover of the KT, it may make an installation slightly easier; however, I view that as a detriment in the time of a failure, you need to pull the motor to gain access to the valves.
Just to clarify all Jet Central Power Pak equipped Turbines have Brush-less starter motors, the power pack offers the ease of installation and carries the life time warranty.

I may be biased in my opinion though

Merry Christmas

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

I had several of the original( wood foam wings) F16 and F15 Avonds kits. They are very light weight and flew great on a P80. I would be careful over powering them.
Vin...

Eaglepilot2

Vin, you're exactly right. I have been flying the F-15 with an old Ram 750 with only about 18# of thrust and although it certainly does not have unlimited vertical, it flew it surprisingly well. Its an old converted ducted fan, so I expect I'll dial it back to about 24 pounds. I know the bifurcated pipe causes some thrust loss, so I think I'll be okay at that setting.
Thanks again for all the reply's.

gunradd

My Feedback: (9)

I would say the k120 would meet your needs better then a k140. Its lighter smaller with good power. 120 is a much more efficient engine power to weight ratio

Mark 5

Take a look at the Jets Munt Merlin 140. It has the best power to weight in its class, very efficient,extremely fast throttle response,brushless starter motor,brushless fuel pump and they are on sale(15%off) at Altecatr. I own two Merlins, they are great turbins and the price and service that Altecare provides is first class.

DrV

My Feedback: (2)

I agree with Mark 5. I also own two M140x and I would highly recommend that turbine.

LA jetguy

+100 DrV...

Edgar Perez

My Feedback: (13)

If you are considering 140 sized turbines, I'm a fan of the JC Cheetah. Great power in a relatively small can.

Eaglepilot2

Another question that's starting to bug me. Is it better to go more power and dial it back, or pick the appropriate size engine for the particular airframe? Considering the engines are comparable in weight and diameter.